Reused Condom: Risk From Prior Fluid

[Digglet]

Dear Admins,

I just wanted to say that I think this site is an amazing resource. Many of your responses to members' concerns are detailed explainations in regards to risk. Admittedly, I suffer from OCD (not just with HIV, but with almost everything else) and I was wondering if you could help answer this question so I can move on from this past episode. Talking with a lot of people and searching the internet, I understand that my risk was low, but I was wondering if you could give the final word. I already know that when it comes to reusing condoms, it is dangerous since the condoms can be break due to friction from prior use. But is it possible to contract HIV from mucous membrane contact with previous fluid if one were to unintentionally reuse a condom from someone else after 5 minutes has past? I was recently with a sw and when she put the condom on my penis for oral sex it was already slightly unrolled. I understand this could result from a number of factors, but is there any risk if there happened to be another patron's semen in the condom?

Again, I know most people don't reuse condoms, but I have heard horror stories in the past where this has unfortunately happened. The condom didn't break, so my main concern is whether or not I could be infected with HIV from any prior semen inside the condom she gave me (since this infected fluid though exposed to the environment could theoretically have touched my penis glans and urethra mucous membranes). I posted on different forums (including the unreliable wikianswers) and was told that my risk ranged from no risk to intermediate risk. I was hoping you admins could give me your take. Thank you very much!

[Ann]

Dig,

It sounds to me like your OCD is working overtime. A used condom just won't roll back up without it being VERY noticable. There's no way you were given a used condom.

You didn't have a risk.

We do not deal with OCD issues in this forum - I suggest you see your therapist or find one if you don't already have one. This isn't an OCD issue.

Ann

[Digglet]

Thanks Ann, but I guess my main question was how long could HIV in the semen of a used condom stay infectious/active regardless of whether it is thrown away or not.

[Ann]

Dig,

Even if there was someone else's semen in the condom, it would not have put you at risk. Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily transmitted INSIDE the human body. Once hiv finds itself outside the body, changes in temperature, pH levels and moisture content all QUICKLY damage the virus and render it unable to infect.

There is no way you could have become infected from this far-fetched scenario, even if it were true.

However, you could have been put at risk for some of the other sexually transmitted infections if the condom was previously used. If you're worried about the others, go see your doctor. This is an hiv website and you were not at risk for hiv.

Ann

[Digglet]

I appreciate your quick and frank responses Ann. I just had one last question; how quickly does the virus start to degrade when it is outside of the host? Not an exact answer of course, but are we talking "immediatly,as soon as it gets outside the body" or "within a few seconds" or "within a few minutes" ?

[Ann]

Dig,

It starts to become damaged immediately.

You did not have a risk. No way, no how.

Ann

[Digglet]

Just out of curiosity for future reference, in regards to degree of infectiousness, is there a real difference between wet semen and dry semen if both have been out on an environmental surface for at least a few seconds to a minute? (since the virus within both the wet semen and dry semen should begin to deteriorate once they are exposed to the changing outside environments)

[Ann]

Dig,

...in regards to degree of infectiousness, is there a real difference between wet semen and dry semen if both have been out on an environmental surface for at least a few seconds to a minute? (since the virus within both the wet semen and dry semen should begin to deteriorate once they are exposed to the changing outside environments)

No.

As I said to you before, this is not an OCD forum. Go see your existing therapist or go find a new one. We cannot hellp you here.

Seriously.

Ann

[Digglet]

Are open sores on the glans considered a potential symptom for ARS?

[Matty the Damned]

We've told you that we don't discuss symptoms here. If you have sores on the head of your penis, you should see your doctor. There are other much more common and transmissible diseases that cause sores such as the ones you describe.

As Ann has said, we cannot help you here.

MtD

[Digglet]

It's not so much about my having symptoms, but general knowledge. Are genital ulcers a result of ARS?

[Matty the Damned]

And I'm not that silly. I've been here long enough to know that when a WW says "I'm just looking for general knowledge" he's really saying "please help me feed my unfounded belief that I have AIDS".

We have told you that we don't discuss symptoms here. ARS or seroconversion illness is described as being a "flu like illness". It's largely indistinguishable from many other other viral infections. Many people don't get any symptoms at all. That's why we avoid discussions about "symptoms".

If you have sores on the head of your cock, take the little chap and show him to your doctor.

You don't have HIV.

MtD

[Digglet]

I had another prior exposure-that included the use of an insertive sex toy. I have not heard much (if anything at all!) on the risk of reused sex toys for HIV, but am sure the scenario must have come up at least a few times on the forum. any thoughts?

[Matty the Damned]

Your question is rather vague. How was this reused toy applied to your person?

MtD

[Digglet]

Sorry about that. I looked back at the older forum topics and realized sex toys don't constitute a risk. I have herpes, though have not had an outbreak for a while. If I were to develop an outbreak during mutual masturbation, would the sores on my penis make the "no risk" of mutual masturbation turn into a higher risk?

Thanks!
Dig

[Digglet]

Especially if infected fluids were to get into these genital sores on the head of the penis during mutual masturbation?

[Ann]

Dig,

Mutual masturbation is not a risk for hiv infection, no matter what sort of extra details you can come up with.

If you have herpes sores on any part of your body, you should not be allowing anyone else to touch them. That's how herpes spreads - skin to skin contact. Keep your herpes to yourself.

Ann

[Digglet]

So HIV from infected fluids outside of the body will not pose more of a threat for infection, even in the presence of cuts and nicks and especially sores?

I'm just afraid since I have at one point or another had lesions on my penis head and am always afraid that this makes me more prone for infection for fluids on a surface (like inside a reused condom or bedsheet or sex toy or towel), outside body part (like someone's hand). I always understood that having an STI like herpes and especially during an outbreak, can make one more perceptible to infection. Does this include infection from HIV infected semen/blood outside of the body also (because of heightened infection)?

[Digglet]

Also just wanted to make sure, once HIV and its plugs are damaged, it cannot reconstitute right?

[Andy Velez]

Yes, that's right. You are worrying needlessly. Really.

[Digglet]

And sorry to persist, Andy, but what would you say about my two questions:

So HIV from infected fluids outside of the body will not pose more of a threat for infection, even in the presence of cuts and nicks and especially sores?

I'm just afraid since I have at one point or another had lesions on my penis head and am always afraid that this makes me more prone for infection for fluids on a surface (like inside a reused condom or bedsheet or sex toy or towel), outside body part (like someone's hand). I always understood that having an STI like herpes and especially during an outbreak, can make one more perceptible to infection. Does this include infection from HIV infected semen/blood outside of the body also (because of heightened infection)?

[Andy Velez]

Having a herpes outbreak does make you more vulnerable to HIV transmission DURING UNPROTECTED INTERCOURSE. The situations you are worrying about are not ones in which HIV is a risk -- topically on the skin. HIV is a fragile virus which needs the kind of receptive setting which an anus or a vagina provides. It is absolutely not transmitted in the settings you are bothering yourself about.

[Digglet]

Thanks Andy. It just seemed so counterintuitive for me that potentially infected blood/semen in a condom would not pose a risk for HIV infection...

[Andy Velez]

Yah, well whatever. You weren't at risk. Period.

[Ann]

Dig,

Keep posting about this no-risk situation and you'll be given a time out. A "re-used" condom? A far-fetched scenario if you ask me. Book yourself in with a therapist. We cannot help you here.

If you've read the Welcome Thread like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned.

Ann

[Digglet]

I hope this doesn't warrant a timeout. And I know that symptoms are never a reliable indicator. But I was just wondering if the rash usually associated with ARS stays visible during the entire period symptoms are expressed. I have a rash on my chest that is showing up every time after I shower, but the redness seems to fade an hour or two after the shower.

[Ann]

Dig,

Dig this - you never had a risk. You do not have hiv. Your rash sounds nothing like an ARS rash - go tell your doctor about it.

And yes, I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Now go find yourself a therapist.

Ann

[Digglet]

I have long gotten past my fear of a reused condom, mostly because I went back to the establishment and saw packaged condoms on a nearby table. There were three more things (to put the final nails in the coffin) I was wondering about since I don't think I can/want to stop in this habit of visiting sw's.

1. Is it possible for the sw to have a bleeding cut on her finger and then, when pushing up on the reservoir tip, get a new drop of infected blood (unexposed to air) trapped in the condom, since when the tip is simultaneously squeezed all the air leaves? I read someone's previous question about the possibility of the virus being trapped in an airtight condom, but found no answer. Can one make a condom as airtight as a needle so that the blood trapped in a condom is as viable a threat as blood trapped in a needle? Can a condom be made to be so hermetically sealed?

2.Ann, when you said that pH, moisture, and Temp changes damage the virus, why wouldn't the virus be damaged in a needle or airtight setting? Wouldn't the Temp and moisture change even inside a needle since blood clots rather quickly (turning it from liquid to solid)? Does pH have to do with oxygen level? Why is air so important in the degredation of the virus (does it contribute to the ph mositure or temp)?

3.Finally, if a condom is used during vaginal sex, but then breaks while it is used during insertive oral sex is there a risk since prior vaginal sex was involved?

Thanks!!! #1 is the question that is most pressing...

[Ann]

Dig,

One of the HUGE differences between sexual exposure (involving blood and condoms) and needle sharing activities is that in sharing needles, hiv is injected directly into the bloodstream.

In answer to number 3, NO, this is not a risk. Getting a blowjob, with or without a condom, is NOT a risk for hiv infection. Whether or not the condom was previously used for vaginal makes no difference.

You haven't had a risk. If you continue to dream up scenarios why you MIGHT have been at risk,  you'll be given another time out. Please consider yourself warned.

Ann

[Digglet]

But Ann, just going off on the lesson and what others on this forum have said, how is blood in a needle injected directly into the bloodstream any different than fresh blood (not exposed to the air) in an airtight condom coming into contact with the receptive cells in the urethra???

[RapidRod]

What is it about the warning you were given that you don't understand. Expected yourself to get another time out. Seek professional mental  help.

[Digglet]

I just wanted to ask Ann to clarify how is blood in a needle injected directly into the bloodstream any different than fresh blood (not exposed to the air) in an airtight condom coming into contact with the receptive cells in the urethra???

[Ann]

Dig,

Your whole fantasy about blood on a finger used to squeeze air out of the tip of a condom isn't a way in which hiv is transmitted. The blood would be on the OUTSIDE of the condom, for a start. If you're worried about what may or may not be on a sex workers hands, then put the condom on yourself.

You really need to stop letting your imagination run away with you - see a counselor if you cannot do this on your own. We cannot help you with that here. I'm giving you that second time out I warned you about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann