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Author Topic: Questions about HIV science  (Read 395 times)

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Offline Pete_

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Questions about HIV science
« on: January 12, 2020, 01:58:06 am »
Not sure if this is the right section to post this, but have been researching the mechanism of replication of HIV to try to better understand the nature of the disease. Also interested in learning more about cellular health and the immune system.
 
This by far is the most informative article I have came across describing the virus itself: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4452072/
 
From what I understand, a CD4 cell is necessary for the virus to replicate. I am no expert, so much of the science is way above my head. And Iím sure what Iím going to ask has already thought of. More or less would like to know why it wouldnít work. 
 
So, if CD4 host cells are required for HIV to replicate, and ART therapies can help stop free virus replication, what if all CD4 cells were killed and the patient was kept alive long enough to receive ART to kill off the virus, then received a blood transfusion of HIV- to replenish CD4 cells after virus was gone? 

Iím guess either itís not possible, or would been to hazardous to health, or no way to functionally eliminate all of both the HIV virus copies and CD4 cells.

Obviously, this would be more of a AIDs cure, rather than HIV cure, since if your early diagnosed with HIV, you canít regain healthy levels of CD4 cells, so such a risky option would not make sense. However, for patients with very low CD4 count at diagnosis, could it be possible? At diagnosis I had 5 CD4 count, however, I know some people get to 0 - but 0 CD4 count doesnít mean they have 0 in their entire body, it just means 0 in the ML of blood tested/counted. But if you already had near 0 to start with, if you could eliminate the rest of the CD4 cells completely(for say maybe a week or a month, while in a sterile hospital condition or induce coma or something) while having high level of ART therapy- could the it be possible to eliminate HIV completely- and would it be possible to regain CD4 cells after? Or only way is the bone marrow transplant with genetic mutation?

Like I said, I am not an expert in this type of medicine or science, so this idea might seem dumb to an expert. But from my limited knowledge, itís the best idea I have have. Would probably be too dangerous for human testing and would probably increase risk of secondary infection before treatment was complete. Iím also guessing it would be nearly impossible to get every copy of the virus. I also may misunderstand how ART works, if it doesnít destroy free viruses not yet attached to CD4 cells, again it wouldnít work. 

I am just trying to learn more and understand more. After reading the linked article, my heart kinda sunk realizing that the increase of CD4 cells also equates to higher viability for the HIV virus to replicate. Being newly diagnosed, not a pleasant thought. While I donít want to get my hopes up, would be the awesome if we could have a full cure within the decade, and bone marrow transplant sure aint exactly the answer we need(Iím sure that doesnít need to be reiterated that here, Iím sure all of you know that all too well by now). Just a thought.

I get that ART is a damn good option, and I hope I will recover to a point where this suggestion sounds silly to me on the future with existing medications. Not there yet and right now Iím really praying for a complete cure.

Wondering if this idea has been discussed before, and if anyone could point me to some related studies or literature on the topic, I would like to learn more.

Any book suggestions would be great too, especially anything very up to date on latest studies and treatment - or books the better learn the basics of cellular and viral science. If anything could help me better understand nutrition and supplements relative to immune health and this disease to better navigate my own recovery.

Offline Grasshopper

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Re: Questions about HIV science
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2020, 05:19:55 am »
Look up or Google: "Timothy Ray Brown"  first patient cured hiv. He had undergone a gene transplant to get rid of the hiv virus.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Questions about HIV science
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2020, 08:25:59 am »
Not sure if this is the right section to post this, but have been researching the mechanism of replication of HIV to try to better understand the nature of the disease. Also interested in learning more about cellular health and the immune system.
https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/hiv-life-cycle

So, if CD4 host cells are required for HIV to replicate, and ART therapies can help stop free virus replication, what if all CD4 cells were killed and the patient was kept alive long enough to receive ART to kill off the virus, then received a blood transfusion of HIV- to replenish CD4 cells after virus was gone? 

Iím guess either itís not possible, or would been to hazardous to health, or no way to functionally eliminate all of both the HIV virus copies and CD4 cells.
so far in the world, two people have had leukemia and since it was killing them already, they agreed to be test subjects. Their immune system was completely eradicated with chemo and radiation (procedures with high death rates). They had bone marrow transplants ( more procedures with high death rates). They barely survived and had huge struggles of simply staying alive and regaining muscle, coordination, etc. Both are technically cured now.

of course, these procedures are in themselves quite deadly and surviving leukemia is another problem in the mix. This kind of "cure" would be unethical to administer to the general population and hugely expensive....and for all we know won't work unless you have leukemia first.

I am just trying to learn more and understand more. After reading the linked article, my heart kinda sunk realizing that the increase of CD4 cells also equates to higher viability for the HIV virus to replicate.
and your heart sunk why? A pill a day (or maybe a few pills a day) is all is takes to stop HIV from eating up those cd4s.

btw you're putting a lot of emphasis on cd4s. While the general rule of thumb is that the more cd4s you have the more illness they will stave off, some people with low cd4s never get sick and some with high cd4s are sick a lot. CD4 counts are simply a quantitative measure of how many cd4s there are and not a measure of how strong/effective those cells are. There is no way to measure the strength of cd4s, so that count is NEVER a measure of how healthy you are. especially since cd4s are only a part of the entire immune system. (lol nobody ever worries about how many cd3s or cd238s they have. there are nearly 400 different CDs (cluster of differentiations from cd1 to cd371) antigens that differentiate leukocytes and other cells in the immune system

Being newly diagnosed, not a pleasant thought. While I donít want to get my hopes up, would be the awesome if we could have a full cure within the decade
as someone who has lived 30+ years with HIV through 40+ years of this epidemic, stressing/worrying/perhaps unrealistically hoping for a cure is simply a waste of time. I take my meds, with no side effects, every day and actually have no need of a cure. "They" have been suggesting a cure within a decade since 1985 and it ain't happened yet; but we need to keep on living, so the best mindset is to remember to remain adherent to ARVs every day so if/when a cure ever happens you'll be alive for it.

I get that ART is a damn good option,
ART is the ONLY option

If anything could help me better understand nutrition and supplements relative to immune health and this disease to better navigate my own recovery.
have your doctor run blood work to determine if you have any deficiencies. Otherwises supplements are only good to create expensive urine. LOL
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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