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Author Topic: NHS in the UK  (Read 381 times)

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Offline an92

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NHS in the UK
« on: August 14, 2019, 06:06:28 am »
Hi everyone!

First off im British but I live in Switzerland, and I got diagnosed here so I've never used the NHS in the UK to treat my condition.

But I've been hearing a lot of stories about how the NHS is not using the good brand name medicines anymore, switching to cheaper generics. Also is it true they are not using dolutegravir anymore? How come more people are not outraged by this?

Does anyone know what is the current (as of 2019) first line treatment available in the UK? Any single pill regimens?

It seems awfully unfair to British people affected by this disease that they have to switch to older medicines after they may have been doing well on the newer ones for several years.

It makes you wonder whether a national health service is a good thing, or whether a private insurance system like in Switzerland (and I presume US, although I don't know much about the health system there) delivers better quality care?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 06:09:07 am by an92 »

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2019, 06:50:17 am »
Hiya

I presume it relates to the the news of NHS England wanting to use generic HIV meds where possible to safe money. 

I think Generic drugs get unfairly a bad rep when in reality it's the same care and medication just cheaper, as true generic drugs have the same active ingredient as the brand name product, so it's the same drug just different label. It's not unfair to people as such, it's the same drug works exactly the same.

The idea of using older meds where suitable is somewhat more concerning, not sure if they have dropped DTG fully or it's just not their first choice when it's not needed, I do know people in the UK still on 1 pill a day combo's though to answer your question.

Earlier topic on this: 
https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=66173.msg

References: 

https://www.tht.org.uk/hiv-and-sexual-health/living-well-hiv/hiv-treatment/generic-hiv-treatment

https://www.aidsmap.com/news/apr-2018/nhs-england-saved-ps10-million-switching-generic-anti-hiv-drugs-2016

More concerning are inaccurate reports. and comments out of the UK

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7344937/NHS-spends-patients-HIV-does-breast-cancer-care.html

Quote
NHS spends as much on patients with HIV as it does on breast cancer care amid fears health tourists with the virus are targeting Britain to access expensive treatment for free

The comments from Prof. Thomas are disappointing & shortsighted. The UK is now reaching its unaids goals & with PrEP on the uptake its reducing new HIV infections. This feels like flamebait to stir up problems in an already divided nation

More to point no study or numbers support the claims in contradiction Post-migration acquisition of HIV, on the other hand, is the real issue, not health tourists. Also anyone including the small number who migrate with HIV need access to treatment without stigma to prevent forward transmission & better health outcomes https://journals.lww.com/aidsonline/fulltext/2017/09100/High_levels_of_postmigration_HIV_acquisition.10.aspxv

Don't even get me started on Michael Barnbrook

He was making suggestions not to treat certain people the old Good AIDS vs Bad AIDS arguments to defend (hide) what seem to me his obvious homophobia. The "Be gay just don't have intimacy" crowd make me want to vomit




Good Aids Vs Bad Aids
https://youtu.be/f3xUjw2BCYE) youtu.be/f3xUjw2BCYE



« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 02:40:21 pm by Jim Allen »
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Offline Jim Allen

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Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2019, 07:29:16 am »
Sorry about that ... Got a bit off topic with the 2nd part of that post.
Hope the first part gives some insights and, I am sure someone else can confirm the same.

Jim
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
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Offline leatherman

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Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2019, 09:31:20 am »
It makes you wonder whether a national health service is a good thing, or whether a private insurance system like in Switzerland (and I presume US, although I don't know much about the health system there) delivers better quality care?
um, no. Switzerland and the UK have much better healthcare than the US. The Affordable Care Act certainly helped but insurance prices are skyrocketing for less coverage and universal health care is a dream consistently blocked by corporation monies.

https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

The UK is now reaching its unaids goals & with PrEP on the uptake its reducing new HIV infections.
The US had to postpone our 90-90-90 goals for 2020 to 2023. Depending on what happens next with our terrible POTUS and the 2020 election, it may take longer than that. (I'm just hoping we don't start sliding backwards  :o )
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2017
Tivicay/Prezcobix

Offline virgo313

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Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2019, 12:22:21 pm »
I have read that studies have been made on the “ingredient “ of genetic meds is the same as those “original” ones.
I don’t see generic hiv med as like a original Gucci vs fake Gucci where there are differences.
RVD Nov 2015. VL --> Log 5.32 HAART on 23/11/15
TDF+FTC+EFV / Chemo KS - 25/11/15 - 20/01/16.
CD4 - 4 (3/11/15) / VL - 225,000   ~ CD4 - 65 (7/03/16) / VL - UD
CD4 - 153 (8/09/16) / VL - UD (20) / CD4% -6%   ~   CD4 - 215 (11/03/17) / VL - No Result / CD4% -8%
CD4 - No Result (10/04/17) / VL - UD (20)   ~   CD4 - 455 (11/05/18) / VL - UD / CD4% -14%
CD4 + CD4% (18/10/18) - Dr not going to  do this anymore / VL - To test only yearly. This Sucks..!
CD4 - 472 (10/04/19) / VL - UD / CD4% - 42%

Offline TabooPrincess

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Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2019, 02:23:10 pm »
I’m in the UK - my truvada was changed recently to a generic version. Looks slightly different but otherwise zero difference to results or side effects. Personally I’m happy that savings are being made and the drug companies aren’t profiting as much!!
09/ 2008 - Seroconversion
11/2008 - Tested pos, cd4 640 vl 25400
12/2008 - cd4 794 vl 27798, 35%
03/2009 - cd4 844 vl 68846, 35%
06/2009 - cd4 476 vl 49151, 33% (pregnancy confirmed)
08/2009 - cd4 464 vl 54662, 32%
Started meds for pregnancy (Kaletra, AZT, Viread)
09/2009 - cd4 841 vl 3213, 42%
10/2009 - cd4 860 vl 1088, 41%
11/2009 - cd4 771 vl 563, 38%
12/2009 - cd4 885 vl 151 42%
Discontinued meds after baby born
02/2010 - cd4 841 vl 63781, 38%
05/2010 - cd4 1080 vl 113000, 39%
08/2010 - cd4 770 vl 109242
12/2010 - cd4 642 vl 111000, 34%
06/2011 - cd4 450 vl 222000, 33%
11/2011 - cd4 419 vl 212000, 24%
03/2012 - cd4 280 vl 118000, 26% (repeated Cd4 at 360)
05/2012 -cd4 360 vl 99,190
10/2012 Atripla, cd4 690, vl 80
12/2012 Darunavir, norvir, truvada, Cd4 680, vl u/d
07/2013 cd4 750,ud

Offline Cybergrad

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Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2019, 10:27:22 pm »
 ;D

Offline Ptrk3

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Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2019, 10:38:05 pm »
Cybergrad:  please introduce yourself to forum members.  Are you HIV-positive?

If so, please introduce yourself in the "Living with HIV" forum.

Or, if you are a friend or family member of someone who is HIV-positive, please introduce yourself in the "Someone I Care About has HIV" forum.

These forums are for people with HIV-antibodies and for those who know and support them.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
HIV 101 - Basics
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You can read more about Transmission and Risks here:
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You can read more about Testing here:
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You can read more about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read more about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
You can read more about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

Offline daveR

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Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2019, 10:58:27 pm »
It is not as if the UK NHS will be buying cheap generics from a guy on a street corner. I assume they will be coming from licenced audited suppliers.
I can understand the apprehension though, my hospital ran out of Truvada and gave me a local generic version, Teno-EM. I was concerned, did a lot of searching on the net. Found the generic drug had been tested against Truvada and the differences were classed as insignificant. The actual production factory, Thai government run has WHO certification and meets international standards. After taking the generic drugs for 6 months I was still undetectable, just a little bit better off financially as I pay myself.
I fully understand any health service going down this road. If you are concerned, check the drug manufacturers details on the internet.

Dave

Offline virgo313

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  • Posts: 184
Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 12:31:20 pm »
It is also not easy for any government to switch to generic.
There is the issue of trade agreement, like agreeing to to deal with “fake” or non trademark goods.
I know pharma companies lodge a protest when my government switch to generic. They also drop price as much as 60%. Still the decision was to go ahead to import generic. End of day same $$ gets to treat more people. Government says it is for “hospital use only”. Wonder if UK pharma protested ?
RVD Nov 2015. VL --> Log 5.32 HAART on 23/11/15
TDF+FTC+EFV / Chemo KS - 25/11/15 - 20/01/16.
CD4 - 4 (3/11/15) / VL - 225,000   ~ CD4 - 65 (7/03/16) / VL - UD
CD4 - 153 (8/09/16) / VL - UD (20) / CD4% -6%   ~   CD4 - 215 (11/03/17) / VL - No Result / CD4% -8%
CD4 - No Result (10/04/17) / VL - UD (20)   ~   CD4 - 455 (11/05/18) / VL - UD / CD4% -14%
CD4 + CD4% (18/10/18) - Dr not going to  do this anymore / VL - To test only yearly. This Sucks..!
CD4 - 472 (10/04/19) / VL - UD / CD4% - 42%

Offline joemutt

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Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #10 on: Today at 03:09:33 am »
I have been on generics for the last 10 years at least, it didn't make any difference.

Offline Marcanthony

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  • Posts: 38
Re: NHS in the UK
« Reply #11 on: Today at 02:29:24 pm »
I’m in the UK and am taking Truvada and Tivicay. No issues at all with having it from
The Dr. They want to switch the Truvada to Descovy.

Not had a conversation about switching them out

 


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