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Author Topic: an update at 6 months, discrodant cd4 and cd4%  (Read 430 times)

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Offline an92

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an update at 6 months, discrodant cd4 and cd4%
« on: December 05, 2018, 05:15:50 am »
Hello Everyone!

I've been keeping myself from posting in the forum the last few months, after Jim's kind suggestion (wake up call) to stop being so anxious about every little thing (thanks!). Generally that's worked out well for me and those around me, so thanks again. I didn't want to be annoying with my questions.

Now I have my 6 months results which show an undetectable viral load (happy about that), and thrombocytes that are up to 239 (I had 30 when I was diagnosed).
The cd4 is up to 833 ( I wasn't expecting that!). But what concerned me was the cd4% which is taken quite seriously by doctors here in Europe.

Last time (at 3 months) it was up to 33% (which was so amazing, considering I started out at 23%). Now however it is down to 29% (disappointing). So whilst I had such a large cd4 increase my overall Cd4% actually decreased... Is it something to think about, or is it a case of me doing again what I am best at (stressing and worrying).

Any input would be really appreciated! Hope it might also help someone else who has a similar situation.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: an update at 6 months, discrodant cd4 and cd4%
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2018, 05:57:06 am »
You have a higher CD4 count & % than me, and i would guess higher than half the members here.

Quote
I've been keeping myself from posting in the forum the last few months, after Jim's kind suggestion (wake up call) to stop being so anxious about every little thing (thanks!). Generally that's worked out well for me and those around me, so thanks again. I didn't want to be annoying with my questions.

You know you can post here if you have concerns, that's what the forum in part is for. I am however really glad to hear you have stopped letting worries or hyper focus on things outside of your control affect your life and, that its working for you. This is the way forward. ;)

Quote
The cd4 is up to 833 ( I wasn't expecting that!). But what concerned me was the cd4% which is taken quite seriously by doctors here in Europe.


If it was me and my doctor was focusing on this, beyond anything lower than 200 count or 14% I would be looking for a better (more up-to-date) doctor. I mean that. They would be dismissed by me, without a 2nd thought.

The range for a “normal” result in an HIV negative person is wide, same as total count and ranges from +- 25% to 60's %. Your count & % are both within the normal range for even the HIV neg population and, the number & % will vary up and down from time to time. This rather irrelevant at this stage as the virus is suppressed and your counts are outside of any AIDS or Advanced Stage or whatever "PC term" is used nowadays.

So ... relax  ;)

Jim
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 07:38:06 am by JimDublin »
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Offline leatherman

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Re: an update at 6 months, discrodant cd4 and cd4%
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2018, 12:20:45 pm »
If it was me and my doctor was focusing on this, beyond anything lower than 200 count or 14% I would be looking for a better (more up-to-date) doctor. I mean that. They would be dismissed by me, without a 2nd thought.
^this


Even though it feels weird like I'm a plagiariser or something, i'm copying and pasting myself here for a short version of why your cd4 count just isn't worth focusing on.
the cd4 test is simply a snapshot of your cd4 count at that moment. Cd4s fluctuate all day long, and by up to 100 points either way. Exercise lowers then raises your cd4 temporarily; while smoking will raise then lower the amount. It's wacky that way. :D

there is no treatment for raising cd4s. All we can do is remain virally suppressed, through adherence to daily meds, so that our cd4s are allowed to flourish without being used up by HIV

cd4s are a part of our immune system; therefore a cd4 count is not a measure of "healthiness" although the thinking is that more cd4s equals a more robust immune system. Being a quantitative measure not a quality measure though, the cd4 count does not reflect whether you have a strong/effective immune system. Some people with low cd4s are rarely "sick", while others with high counts can experience health issues. Having a high cd4 count does not mean you should feel well/healthy - that mainly depends on your food, exercise, and bad/good habits, although an immune system fighting off the germs does certainly help one to feel good  ;)

because the immune system you have is based on your genetics, there is no magic number of cd4s. what we do know is that when this count is <200, opportunistic infections can easily take hold. unless you had a cd4 count prior to your HIV diagnosis, there is no way to tell what your "normal" cd4 count should be. The "normal" range is considered 400-1200 (or thereabouts)

The CD4% is the percentage of white blood cells that are CD4 cells. In an HIV- adult the average CD4% can range from 24% – 64%. this is a much more stable number than the absolute CD4 count, and useful when a dramatic change (increase or decrease) is seen in the absolute count.


with all that said, what you'll need to focus on is: are you virally suppressed ("undetectable", <20), and is your cd4 above 200.


about a week ago, I just celebrated living with HIV for 34 years. For only the last 10 yrs was my cd4 count above 200. During that 24 years of "aids", I learned that your cd4 count is no predictor of how you feel or whether you'll be "sick" or "healthy". It's just a marker for when opportunistic infections are more likely to occur and, before treatment, it's a measure of how much of an impact HIV has had on your immune system. (how badly hiv has been gobbling up your cd4s.)

Quote
You have a higher CD4 count & % than me, and i would guess higher than half the members here.
just got my recent results in, and I've got a whopping 409 cd4s  :D , with a great percentage finally up to 24%  :D. 56yrs old, undetectable, an hour at the gym 5X a weeks, barely 2 yrs married, roller coaster fan, yard-work fanatic, and on dec 14th the proud co-owner of a 30-yr mortgage! (We've been looking for a house for a year and finally we're buying one just in time for Christmas. But I am soooo tired of packing, and stacking boxes all around!! who knew my belongings would be so damned heavy. and there's unpacking to do in just a little over a week.! I'd rather be at the gym on that damned elliptical. LOL)




hopefully this is an interesting tidbit about cd cells-
believe it or not after all these years, I just recently learned that "CD" stands for "cluster of differentiation". I knew that cd4s were only a part of the immune system but I was also surprised to learn that the system for naming cd's was adopted in 1982 and that there are about 363 clusters defined.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2017
Tivicay/Prezcobix

 


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