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Author Topic: Intentioanl infection  (Read 1499 times)

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Offline CharlesPos

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Intentioanl infection
« on: September 23, 2018, 05:41:39 pm »
Let me start by saying that I am not even sure this goes in this forum. If it doesn't, I'd appreciate it be moved to the corresponding place.

A few weeks ago I was infected by someone on purpose. This is irrelevant but by "purpose" I mean tampering with the condoms, lying about his status, and willfully trying to set up situations were exchange of fluids was imminent. Which thanks to his evilness and my naivete did come to occur. The person in question did have the decency to alert me about his status several weeks after the encounters, claiming he had just found out. This didn't make sense to me but at the same time some other things started making sense. It turns Mr. L. had been fully diagnosed for over a year (he doesn't know I know). I know because he told me that he has had other partners thought-out that time. This is another issue, I am not sure if he told them or not, and I am unsure on how to approach them. If anyone has gone through this, I'd also appreciate some input.

Although my issue is not directly the HIV part, it still related to it, maybe my concern could be more accurately addressed in a legal forum but I thought I'd share it here and hopefully get some "insider" insight. I would also like to make it clear that the point of this thread is not to discuss whether suing him legally is the right thing to do or not, as this highly depends on our own vision of morality and we all know what that means and where a conversation about this leads to... I know that it is according to by convictions, I know what needs to be done, I am just unsure about the how. I am mostly looking to hear from others who might have gone through the same (were intentionally infected) and any advice they may offer.

For example, I learned from previous threads that an option is to just report him to the health board and forget about the whole thing and let them deal with it. I could also keep documenting evidence and sue him legally.  Another option might be to try to get him to give his reasons, if it is that anything can really justify such a horrific act of cunningly and cold bloodedly device a plan to harm others.

I know it's hard but let's try to keep focused and not deviate from the topic or whether this is true or false. In the worst scenario, let's say this is all hypothetical (which unfortunately it isn't). What was/would be the approach of those ones who felt taking this legally was the right thing to do?

Thanks in advance for all your contributions.


« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 05:57:33 pm by CharlesPos »

Offline JimDublin

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2018, 05:57:31 pm »
Hiya

Welcome to the forum.

How are your labs? Have you started treatment already and, have you spoken to anyone about how you feel?

Quote
A few weeks ago I was infected by someone on purpose. This is irrelevant but by "purpose" I mean tampering with the condoms, lying about his status, and willfully trying to set up situations were exchange of fluids was imminent. Which thanks to his evilness and my naivete did come to occur.

So you are claiming the person knew their status beforehand are not on treatment etc and introduced fluids in a way to you with the design/aim "intent" to create a probability to infect you on purpose.

I'm not sure how you can know some of this as a fact,  but you seem convinced so if you believe this than it would be a matter to report to the authorities and allow them to handle it further and/or speak to a solicitor if that is an option you want to explore

Wishing you well

Jim
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 08:10:55 pm by JimDublin »
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Offline JimDublin

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2018, 06:12:09 pm »
Quote
The person in question did have the decency to alert me about his status several weeks after the encounters, claiming he had just found out. This didn't make sense to me but at the same time some other things started making sense. It turns Mr. X had been fully diagnosed for over a year (he doesn't know I know). I know because he told me that he has had other partners thought-out that time. This is another issue, I am not sure if he told them or not, and I am unsure on how to approach them. If anyone has gone through this, I'd also appreciate some input.

I'm not sure how him having other partners in the past 12 months is proof he has been diagnosed with HIV for longer.  Often people test irregularly meaning by the time they are newly diagnosed many months or years could have passed since they last tested.

I think you should focus on your own case, report it if you feel the need to and let the authorities investigate/check and decide the true facts. What conversations he may or may not have had with others you where not witness to and if or how they took / take steps to reduced their risks during sexual encounters is not your concern.

So no real need to dwell or focus on this "what ifs" regarding others ultimately if he was dignoised earlier it would be recorded and easy for authorities to check.

Jim

« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 07:46:48 pm by JimDublin »
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Offline CharlesPos

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2018, 09:15:13 pm »
I'm not sure how him having other partners in the past 12 months is proof he has been diagnosed with HIV for longer.  Often people test irregularly meaning by the time they are newly diagnosed many months or years could have passed since they last tested.
Sorry, that was a  separate thing not to do with his status.

What I meant in the second part is that I know that he has slept with other people because he told me himself, all while knowing he was +, I wonder and it might serve me as further evidence, to know if he also behaved in the same way he did with me. So I know I could contact them because he  even told me the names of some of them.

Quote
I think you should focus on your own case, report it if you feel the need to and let the authorities investigate/check and decide the true facts. What conversations he may or may not have had with others you where not witness to and if or how they took / take steps to reduced their risks during sexual encounters is not your concern.
Yes, I will definitely take it to the authorities that's not in question, of that I am sure from the start and not the reason why I opened this thread. I am mostly looking for someone who might have already gone through the same (suing or starting legal action) and who would like to share what it was like to them. Again, I understand if this is out of the scope of the forums as it is not expressly an HIV issue but rather something related to it.


On a side note, thanks for the welcome and I am doing pretty fine.

I will focus on my *own case when and if there is an issue about it, which unfortunately I am sure there will be. I haven't started any treatment yet, I have other per-existing conditions that the doctors will need to evaluate before I start on treatment. This is all very recent and the only person I have spoken to about it are one of the doctors that sees me and whoever has red this post.

Offline JimDublin

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2018, 09:45:03 pm »
Quote
What I meant in the second part is that I know that he has slept with other people because he told me himself, all while knowing he was +, I wonder and it might serve me as further evidence, to know if he also behaved in the same way he did with me. So I know I could contact them because he  even told me the names of some of them.

Again i am not sure how him having other partners in the past 12 months is proof he has been diagnosed with HIV for longer or committed a crime against others. Often people test irregularly meaning by the time they are newly diagnosed many months or years could have passed since they last tested also people do boast about sex all the time.

Another thing is even if what you said is true, its still not for you to contact them, as again you don't know for a fact when he was diagnosed, when he slept with them  You were not a witness to the events, you don't know what was said or disclosed for a fact or what steps people took to reduce their sexual transmission risks.

I mean I know I've slept with plenty of people whilst knowing i am living with HIV, that in itself is not a crime, its not up to you to investigate one either. In fact you could by digging around or contacting people simply cause problems where there were none for yourself and others. If there is a crime or legal issue you could be impeding a future investigation and/or end up being the criminal or being sued yourself all depending on the jurisdiction.
 
Again focus on yourself, report it if you feel that you have a case to report and leave any potential detective work to detectives.

Quote
I haven't started any treatment yet, I have other per-existing conditions that the doctors will need to evaluate before I start on treatment. This is all very recent and the only person I have spoken to about it are one of the doctors that sees me and whoever has red this post.

Quote
On a side note, thanks for the welcome and I am doing pretty fine.

Aha, I see, well glad your doing okay. On that note what was your last viral load and CD4 counts like?

Also but just out of curiosity was it routine HIV & STI screening or did you go in specifically for a HIV test following this encounter?

Jim
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 11:07:45 pm by JimDublin »
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Offline MadDog125

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2018, 11:22:21 pm »
Only thing I can say in legal terms is it depends on your country and or state.  In maryland USA it is a felony to knowingly expose and or infect a sex partner without disclosure.  How they determine that in court I don't pretend to know.  I have no idea how often or even if that law has ever been used or applied.

Offline CaveyUK

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2018, 05:57:35 am »
It varies depending in jurisdiction. In the UK for example it even varies - in England/Wales it is not a crime to withold your status as long as protection is used (being on stable treatment and UD would qualify), and it is only applicable if it is proved that the particular strain of virus matches the other person. In Scotland however, it is theoretically possible to convict even in the setting of non-transmission, but I suspect this would be difficult to prove. In the US, there are differences state to state and I'm sure the same is true across all other countries.

I agree with Jim though on all this. The OP should focus on their own treatment and health first and foremost, and that should include the mental health side of things which can often spiral out of control if the circumstances of the transmission remain front and centre for too long.

In terms of legal action, the sooner any concerns are passed to the appropriate authorities the better as they will be able to advise and recommend a way forward. If it turns out that the OP was indeed infected by someone who knew they were HIV positive but were not undergoing treatment and had evidence they had intentionally tampered with condoms then I certainly sympathise as that would be horrible. If it turns out that this has happened multiple times to others then it becomes a much bigger deal, and would certainly be newsworthy too. But there do seem to be a number of assumptions and snap-conclusions made here which may prove to be incorrect, and is why it is important to let professionals who know the local law and will have had similar conversations previously, handle it.

Intentional transmission is extremely rare and tends to be big news when it happens. This is because treatment is so easy and effective these days, which render people uninfectious, and proving intent can be tricky as HIV is a difficult thing to transmit...before finding my status and whilst having a raging viral load, I had previously had unprotected sex hundreds of times with my partner and they are still negative. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - there was the recent conviction of that hairdresser in the UK who infected a number of people - but it is rare and like in that particular case, the perpetrator was clearly a psychopath and would probably have been dangerous in other ways if he hadn't had uncontrolled HIV.

And I absolutely agree that the OP should not, on any level, contact or attempt to contact the previous partners. It is actually not relevant to their case, could bring distress to others (which may be unwarranted), would 'out' the person in question which is not their place to do and could - if the allegations are true - jeopardise any future trial. Just don't do it.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 06:02:33 am by CaveyUK »
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Offline JosephP

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2018, 10:39:56 pm »
Only thing I can say in legal terms is it depends on your country and or state.  In maryland USA it is a felony to knowingly expose and or infect a sex partner without disclosure.  How they determine that in court I don't pretend to know.  I have no idea how often or even if that law has ever been used or applied.

It was applied on a case in Indiana and later dismissed on a technicality. During the act he informed the partner about his status... You know, "in the heat of the moment". The receiving partner didn't stop immediately given the defense lawyer a way out! I don't remember exactly where in Indiana or the name of the principals. 8) 8)
We are all dealing with this. And we will live long and productive lives!! AND, yes the Lord is my shepherd. Life is good... And thanks for the meds!

Offline harleymc

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 11:23:43 pm »
Not exactly a 'technicality' more like informed consent.

Offline mecch

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 04:55:52 am »
Since the thing we all have in common is HIV I would like to hear more about the OP's health and also hear about the labs and the contacts with doctors about the HIV infection up to now. How is that all going?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline CharlesPos

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2018, 09:12:57 pm »
Since the thing we all have in common is HIV I would like to hear more about the OP's health and also hear about the labs and the contacts with doctors about the HIV infection up to now. How is that all going?

As previously stated, these are not the reasons why I opened the thread, nor am I interested in discussing personal information on the Internet. (yeah, yeah, everything we put here is public...). And also as previously mentioned, I would totally understand if my actual concern is out of the scope of this forum,  that's partly why have not participated nor pressed on the matter any further. I might have signed up to the wrong site. This does appear to be an issue that could be more appropriately dealt with by law professionals. Before I took that step, though,  I was hoping I could find others who have endured that same fate.

The only thing I found on these fora was a story about a guy who had known somebody who infected people on purpose, they only realized about this when the guy eventually died and they had clean up his room. I would have loved to hear the story from the people he actually infected.

Quote
And I absolutely agree that the OP should not, on any level, contact or attempt to contact the previous partners. It is actually not relevant to their case, could bring distress to others (which may be unwarranted), would 'out' the person in question which is not their place to do and could - if the allegations are true - jeopardise any future trial. Just don't do it.
My ethics and convictions tell me otherwise (again, nothing to be gained from discussing it)... The only thing I am forced to agree with is the part in bold. There are so many legit cases that are dropped or even criminals freed because "evidence was illegally acquired", no matter how true the evidence may turn out to be.

All contributions are welcomed, as I know they are well intended. However, I would appreciate very much if before replying to this thread you take into account the last paragraph of my initial post:
Quote
"I know it's hard but let's try to keep focused and not deviate from the topic or whether this is true or false. In the worst scenario, let's say this is all hypothetical (which unfortunately it isn't). What was/would be the approach of those ones who felt taking this legally was the right thing to do?"

Anywho... thanks all.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 09:22:50 pm by CharlesPos »

Offline JimDublin

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Re: Intentioanl infection
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2018, 02:17:28 am »
Ethics  ::)

For the timebeing, I am closing this thread and the topic as flame-bait. Not going to keep asking you and all new members are expected to introduce themselves and share some details about how they are getting on with treatment and their status.

You are no exception, and so far you have also avoided answering any specifics on you claim/situation, diagnosis and seem to be debating your moral objections to people having a sexlife.

The fact you pointblank refuse and/or ignore the requests, avoid specifics leads me to believe you are either a worry well who belongs in the "Am I infected" the "what if" section of the forum, or the topic is pure flame-bait/spam to irritate the poz community. We see this from time to time and you have used up your 3 free posts as a "Am I infected" member.

So far all we have established here is you claim to be  have been sexually active and you blame the last person you slept with for you acquiring HIV, your reasoning for this seems to be they tested positive and informed you to test.  I am not hearing any intent at all , foreknowledge or diagnosis for that matter but just a notification from a newly diagnosed person you chose to sleep with in the past as heads-up for you to get tested.

Pretty standard stuff, if true.

Quote
In the worst scenario, let's say this is all hypothetical
Nothing to suggest any intent posted so far, just some  collections of your moral concerns about a former partner who rerecently tested positive.

Anyhow if you think somehow a crime was committed, than I'm sorry to hear that but than report it, simple as, nothing to debate. The authorities can check facts, they don't prosecute based on your feelings, thoughts or your morals. They can check for evidence like the medical records to see what the persons actual diagnosis date was, and use molecular evidence to check the viral genotype between people etc and they can decide than if there is a case to answer or not.

Jim
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 05:27:21 am by JimDublin »
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