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Author Topic: neg partner- my needs count too.  (Read 8351 times)

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Offline Jeevsey1968

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neg partner- my needs count too.
« on: June 12, 2016, 05:22:20 am »
My partner has been pos for 20 years, I'm neg, we have been together for 15 years. We love each other very much. I feel really guilty as I have booked a holiday for myself, my parents and my partner, but to be honest I don't want him to go, but he is insisting he wants to go. He gets a terrible rash in the sun, and heavy sweats all of the time. I care very much about him, but my parents don't know he is poz and telling them is not an option for me. I am feeling very pressured as he says he will stay in the shade (which will not be possible) and will wear a big hat and keep covered up. As this is a sunny holiday in a hot country with a villa and pool, he will look odd. I am also concerned about my parents seeing him in swim trunks as he has very bad lipo, so a huge stomach. I'm tempted to just cancel the holiday, which will be a shame as my mother has been ill, and this will mean a lot to her. 

I post this because HIV can cause some difficult problems and decisions for the neg partner, it is hard to answer the questions about why he has never worked, or his many hospital appointments, and keep this a secret from my work and my family. I hate being secretive, but it's also my life. And he is often ill, and I can't just take time off work to take him to hospital appointments all of the time. Every time we plan something he is ill, and I have to cancel. We haven't had sex for 12 years, and he shows no interest, telling me that it is because of his illness, yet at the same time gives me a hard time if I have any fun with anyone else. I think him expecting me to lead the life of a saint is unfair.

It is very stressful for me, and I feel I really need a break from him and the HIV, I wish he would just bow out gracefully and realise that he is pressuring me by insisting on going on holiday when this will raise difficult issues for me with my parents.

I think he expects too much, and puts his HIV first as the most important thing in our relationship, and it is not. My needs are important too, as is my right to keep this from my family and work colleagues. One of my friends has told me I am being selfish, but I don't see that? My partner has HIV, and he has to accept that this brings some limitations for him, and he should consider the impact of his condition on other people.

What do I do?

Offline zach

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2016, 08:04:36 am »
 :o

enjoy your vacation i guess

that's the nicest thing i can say
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 08:32:02 am by zach »

Offline CaveyUK

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2016, 08:43:10 am »
One of my friends has told me I am being selfish, but I don't see that?

You can't see that? Really???
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Offline Wade

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2016, 08:55:16 am »
Your partner and his feelings should come first...period
Sounds to me like you're flat out ashamed of him
and sorry you'll get no sympathy from me...
As Zach said , Enjoy your vacation

Wade
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Offline mecch

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 09:01:58 am »
OK I'll bite.

Jeevsey1968 - this is your partner of 15 years and so the love of your life.  If he wants to come on vacation with you and your family, he comes. He is aware of ALL your worries and still wants to come. 

If I read this timeline correctly, your relationship went off the rails many years ago.

You are, probably for many reasons you consider necessary or the lessor of 2 evils, lying to everyone about the logistics of your relationship, due to your partner's health condition.  I personally think this is a mistake for everyone involved.  But then, I am from NYC and its region and middle class.  I didn't come out to my parents until my mid twenties and my bf in NY had aids and was dying.  HIs family couldn't deal AT ALL.  My family - I needed them and bit the bullet and put it all out there. My family did very well with the news, which of course included me being gay in the mix.  I was not HIV+.

I am going to put myself in your bf's shoes.  I am going to give the benefit of the doubt and say you two really do still love each other a lot.

"How many chances am I going to have to be on holiday in a gorgeous warm spot living in a villa with a pool, with my wonderful generous partner"

That is what he is thinking.

You are sort of a cad. But you have built this up over many many years so I can understand how delicate it is going to be do start taking down all these walls. Good luck.
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Online Jim Allen

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2016, 09:10:10 am »
Sounds indeed from the post your are ashamed of your partner.

Ill be honest if my partner was generally that ashamed about me I would personally not touch them with a bargepole let alone my genitals, but that's just me.

Enjoy the holiday.

Jim
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Offline leatherman

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2016, 09:42:53 am »
My partner has been pos for 20 years, I'm neg, we have been together for 15 years.

but my parents don't know he is poz and telling them is not an option for me.
OMG. for god's sake disclose about this and get off the cross.

You'll get no sympathy from me for lying to your family for 15 yrs and now facing the consequences -- which, to be honest, will probably be your family being mad at you for 15 yrs of lies instead of them caring about your partner's HIV.

And if your partner being HIV+ was going to be such a "problem" you should have never lead him on for 15 years either. You should quit lying to him and tell him your "real" feelings about him, HIV and y'all's life together.

I know we've been harsh to you in this thread; but you really need to stop lying to everyone in your life, make the changes you need to make (whatever those are: disclosure or breakup), and start living a more honest life. You'll be happier and others around you will be happier too.
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Offline CaveyUK

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2016, 09:51:27 am »
Ok, against my better judgement I am going to look at some aspects of your post I wanted to comment on.


I feel really guilty as I have booked a holiday for myself, my parents and my partner, but to be honest I don't want him to go, but he is insisting he wants to go.

The obvious question is why you booked this holiday in the first place if this is how you feel. The follow up observation would be to go with your partner (who you love very much) and ditch the parents. Taking your parents and leaving your partner at home, upset at not going, would not be an option for any right-minded person who is genuinely 'in love' IMO.

Quote
He gets a terrible rash in the sun, and heavy sweats all of the time.

A lot of people get this in hot sunny climates, not just people HIV+

Quote
I am feeling very pressured as he says he will stay in the shade (which will not be possible) and will wear a big hat and keep covered up. As this is a sunny holiday in a hot country with a villa and pool, he will look odd.

It is commonly viewed as being good practice for anyone, HIV or not, to cover up in the sun when visiting a hot country. Whilst some will want to stretch out and frazzle under the sun in skimpy beachwear this is actually not good for anyone. Whenever I have been anywhere hot, there are always people wearing sun-hats, or staying in the shade. I myself have largely done this for many years pre-HIV as I get an allergic reaction to too much UV and sunburn easily. If I do get undressed, it is for very short periods before I get back under shade.

Quote
I am also concerned about my parents seeing him in swim trunks as he has very bad lipo, so a huge stomach.

For a start, your parents are unlikely to make any connection between lipo and HIV. And if they were to comment on his appearance, I'm sure you would be able to bat that away without the subject of AIDS coming up. Of course the sage advice would be to disclose, but you have already said this won't be an option.

Quote
I'm tempted to just cancel the holiday, which will be a shame as my mother has been ill, and this will mean a lot to her. 

It means a lot to your partner too, seemingly. You know, the one you love....

Quote
We haven't had sex for 12 years, and he shows no interest, telling me that it is because of his illness, yet at the same time gives me a hard time if I have any fun with anyone else. I think him expecting me to lead the life of a saint is unfair.

This is an area you need to communicate with and work with your partner on. It shows a lack of understanding on your part that you consider being in this relationship as some sort of burden, and rather than trying to work things through, are content to pin the blame on your partner for not wanting you to 'have fun with anyone else'. Incidently, this is not an HIV-centric thing....lots of couples where the sex has gone south for a myriad of reasons have this very problem. The answer lies in communication, ultimately. Brooding about life being unfair doesn't really solve anything.

Quote
It is very stressful for me, and I feel I really need a break from him and the HIV, I wish he would just bow out gracefully and realise that he is pressuring me by insisting on going on holiday when this will raise difficult issues for me with my parents.

You booked the holiday! Again, your shame in your partners condition and talk of you 'needing a break' from him and the HIV do not point to you being in a loving relationship.

Quote
I think he expects too much, and puts his HIV first as the most important thing in our relationship, and it is not.

From what I am reading it is YOU that are putting HIV first as the most important thing, rather than him - who wants to just go on holiday with you...

Quote
My needs are important too

No doubt

Quote
My partner has HIV, and he has to accept that this brings some limitations for him, and he should consider the impact of his condition on other people.

He has a chronic health condition, like millions of people. You are purportedly love each other and have accepted his condition in your relationship. As with any condition there will be up's and down's and some restrictions or considerations that need to be accommodated. That's life I'm afraid..

What you should be doing is working together as a team, communicating well and working out the best way to minimise impact from his health issues whilst still giving you what you want from life.

This all seems like you took a decision to do something which may not be entirely appropriate for his condition and now find yourself in a bind because you realise there will be some things which could provide tricky to navigate. That is firmly on you and you now need to work out the best way to deal with that.

If you choose to exclude your partner from the holiday and blame HIM for being needy then that is absolutely your choice to do. Don't expect an ounce of sympathy from these quarters though.

But all this points at deeper rooted problems in your relationship which you need to sort out

Best of luck.
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Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 11:56:21 am »
I really appreciate all responses here. I expected to have some criticism, but I'm being as honest as I can, because it is a difficult situation sometimes. I am as much a victim and a product of HIV discrimination as my partner, just in a different way, and I think we all need to understand what it is like from the partner side sometimes. There is lots of worry, and many issues and questions do come up that I have to deal with, and I have to accept the reality that this has potential to impact me in a negative and different way from how it affects my partner.

My parents are not very enlightened, and at their time in life I don't think they need to be, neither do I want to create worry for them. My father will be completely prejudiced and will freak out if he ever found out. And I only have one set of parents! I think they can guess that something is wrong as my partner hasn't worked for over 20 years, and is often I'll. It doesn't take a genius to work this one out.

We are looking into trying to find out what drugs are causing the reaction, and it is severe with scabbing and lots of discomfort. I hope we can find a solution,,as there would not be much point in him suffering in 90C heat?

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2016, 12:01:56 pm »
I booked the holiday because it is my parents 50th anniversary, and it is in Cyprus where I used to libpve as a child, I've never been back, and this will be an important reunion for myself and parents.

I dearly want him to come, but at the same time I am worried about possible disclosure, and the negative impact that this will have on my life and ultimately us both?

I know how selfish this sounds, that's why I have posted this. I'm  being completely honest, but feeling like this sometimes is a reality, it isn't easy.

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2016, 01:46:26 pm »
 ::)

Please stand by, whist i look around for the worlds smallest violin.

Your partner has a medical condition. You are embarrassed of this and you are embarrassed of the way he looks, and what other people might think if they found out your partner has this medical condition and how this will impact you.

Well you have had 15+ years to deal with this but clearly have not and have been sticking your head in the sand instead and you seem to be using his condition and your own fears of what if people might think if they found out as an excuses. 

If you don't want him to come, grow up and be honest with him about it or accept your partner has a medical condition and move on. If you love your partner it should not matter if someone finds out as its something you deal with together. Chances are someone is going to find out sooner or later.

If it had been a different medical condition would you have felt the same?

To be honest I think this has very little to do with HIV or HIV discrimination, that's just an easy cop out being used.

Jim
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 02:03:10 pm by JimDublin »
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Offline zach

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2016, 04:31:28 pm »
do him a huge a favor

end the relationship

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2016, 05:42:08 pm »
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the comments, I think you are being a bit harsh.

It's not about how I feel, I'm fine, I wouldn't be with him otherwise? I wouldn't stick by him and support him in the way I do, but there is the reality of how certain other people will feel, or act, and it's a reality that neg partners have to deal with, and yes I am afraid of the consequences of disclosure in certain cases. All of my direct closest friends know, this has never been a problem, but why should I be criticised for not wanting to mess up my job, or for having my aggressive father disown me? And this upsetting my elderly ill mother?

My partner never told his own mother, and she has now sadly passed away. He didn't tell her because he did not want to worry her. I didn't accuse him of sticking his head in the sand? his relatives don't know either.

It's a bit like a situation I had at work a few years ago. It was the works Chritmas party, and partners were allowed to come. My partner did not want to come, and I did not want to particularly come out as gay at my work do anyway, so was relieved. This had nothing to do with being ashamed, but was a choice I have a right to. The world is incredibly prejudiced, and I felt that coming out at work would be detrimental to my prospects. That's not my fault, it's the way it is, and I am under no obligation to fight any battles I don't want to, neither should anyone criticise me for not tackling our homophobic, HIv prejudiced world.

HIV prejudice is a fact, it affects me too, I didn't create it, and I'm not obliged to tackle it if I don't feel comfortable.

Offline CaveyUK

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2016, 05:53:32 pm »
It's nothing to do with HIV prejudice this though is it? At least not anyone elses.

If you care for this man, take him on holiday. If your parents make some comment about his appearance tell them it's none of their business (it isn't).

You seem to be putting theoretical barriers in the way of enjoying your time with your partner.

You made your bed by booking the holiday for your parents AND your partner. Now, you need to lay in it.

But the real problem here isn't the holiday. It's that you feel it is okay to brand your partner selfish and self-centered but in the same breath claim to 'love' him. From what you posted, there are warning signs flashing away that this is not a genuine two-way relationship, nor that you care that much for your partner.

Sorry, but thats how it reads. And is probably why your friend thought you were being selfish.

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2016, 06:34:03 pm »
I am holding back and I agree with Cavey, Nobody is asking you to fight any HIV prejudice and this has nothing to do with that at all.

Its just an excuses and not a good one, nobody is saying you have to go to war on prejudice or discrimination or get it tattooed on your forehead, but what you are doing is letting some fear and/or shame about someone else's theoretical prejudice dictate (validate) to you, your actions and the way you live.

Life is just way too short to worry about what others might think let alone let that be a deciding factor on how you live your life.

Quote
but why should I be criticised for not wanting to mess up my job, or for having my aggressive father disown me? And this upsetting my elderly ill mother?

 ::) ... Don't put in on billboards than, so look don't tell them if it is such an issue for you, but do live your life and accept your partner as he is. With that accept that if someone somehow does find out they might react badly, than again maybe they will surprise you and react supportive. Either way you choose your partner and at least you will have each other.

If that is too much for you at accept as a risk, than I have to be honest I am not sure the relationship will ever be whole again.

Jim
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 06:36:35 pm by JimDublin »
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Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2016, 07:27:50 pm »
Cavey UK, thank you, I really appreciate the time you have taken to give me your thoughts. These things are never easy, and yes, it is about teamworking within what is possible and best for both involved.

I'm not going to beat myself up for being human, and there are some on here that have responspded as I expected, they seem to suggest that in life there is only one way, and that is for me to entirely put myself and my concerns second to my partner and his HIV. Acknowledging that I also have concerns and worries, or that I am not able to entirely surrender everything about myself to this, even at the cost of losing my parents, seems to be the unthinkable to some on here, and is being described as selfish, which I disagree with.

As for leaving him, I really don't see how this would do him a favour? He needs me very much, and I am always there, I support him, am very generous, take him out to dinner, holidays, hotels, every imaginable gadget he wants, cars, money.....why? Because everything I have is his. He has unrestricted access to my bank accounts and never has to ask for anything.

But I reiterate, there are some incredibly nasty people out there, and expecting me to take this on is not fair. There is nothing wrong with me acknowledging this prejudice and working my life around it. It is reality, and one I have to deal with. But it is. It always easy.

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2016, 07:36:53 pm »
I think that my commitment to this guy speaks for itself. He stopped having sex with me 12 years ago, he has never worked, so I pay everything. I work horrendous hours, my health is worse than his. I think that unless you really care about someone you are not going to stick around and take time out to take them to hospital, look after them when they are sick, and share everything you have with them?

Offline zach

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2016, 07:42:35 pm »
in her lifetime, did your partner avoid his mother too? or is it just your family you shun him away from?

don't disclose, so what, no big deal. this isn't about whether you disclose or not.

i really don't know what the fuck you expected from this community.

i feel for him having to put up with your emotional blackmail.
Quote
everything I have is his

yeah, that's bullshit. stop being such a generous bastard. he deserves better than you.

Offline CaveyUK

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2016, 08:05:47 pm »
This really isn't about HIV is it?

If he had cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, advance diabetes or any number of conditions you would have to make allowances and sacrifices as a result, just like millions of people do each day. Whilst it can often appear big and scary, it really is 'just' a condition - something that you both have to deal with if you are in a loving two-way relationship.

He will probably feel the same if ever you are struck down with a condition which requires him to make sacrifices or adjustments. That's just the way love works.

Your posts do come across badly and make you sound very self-entitled. As though you deserve some sort of medal for the sacrifice you are making and as a result you can make decisions which will adversely affect your partner, and you expect him to suck these up without complaint because you are so 'understanding' and generous towards him.

Listen, I know it is tough on you. I get that. But life IS tough, and it's pulling through adversity that makes us stronger as individuals. You are just not coming across as being particularly strong right now.

As for your dad and his possible reaction should he find out about your partners HIV (which incidentally, it should also be your partner who decides whether to disclose)...well, I get the concept of negative initial reaction unfortunately but you say he would 'disown' you if he found out? I call bullshit on that I'm afraid...but looking at it another way - if he did react like that, then why on earth are you putting yourself out for your him OVER your partner?

I'll tell you why....you want that villa holiday in Cyprus without having to worry about your partner being around. Based on your comments about sex, you probably want to hook up whilst over there. I may be reading too much into it but that's what it sounds like.

It's not about your parents, or your partners aversion to sunny weather (in which he doesn't seem to share your concern), or anything to do with disclosure.

You can look at any agony column and see the same stuff. Basically your situation could easily read as :

"I'm in a long term relationship and I do care about my partner, but we have grown apart sexually and he is quite needy and I feel that I deserve a bit of freedom and a break from him. Is that so bad?"

And the answer would be the same as you will get on here..... You have serious problems in your relationship, which you need to be honest about with your partner and work to make things better, or decide to move on.

It's hard to see a solution here without doing that. If you go on holiday without him, he will resent that - quite rightly. If you take him, then everything will likely be fine but you won't get that 'break' you want and the underlying problem will still be there.

I'm not saying split up. But I am saying please re-evaluate your relationship, have honest dialogue with your partner and see where that takes you.

Again, this has nothing to do with HIV or disclosure, in my opinion

Sorry for being so blunt

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2016, 08:18:09 pm »
Quote
But I reiterate, there are some incredibly nasty people out there, and expecting me to take this on is not fair.

Again nobody is saying you have to go to war on prejudice or discrimination. I still don't see what this has to do with taking him with you on holiday.

Its just an excuse for leaving him at home. Look I don't care at the end of the day but this has nothing to do with HIV and so i am not sure what your expecting from us.   

Jim
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Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2016, 07:38:22 am »
Thanks everyone for your honesty here.

I think the conclusion I am drawing here, which is something I wanted to understand is that few will make any concession, or acknowledge that the prejudice around HIV can be a real problem faced by negative partners.

Much as I would like to embrace the 'if the world can't accept us, then it's their problem' the reality is not like this.

I can think of many completely sound reasons why it would be completely logical to keep this a secret rather than have the disadvantage of prejudice. If there is no benefit to disclosure other than to prove you are not ashamed, and if you are not ashamed, and it is entirely detrimental to face the discrimination, then I see no reason to tackle it.

As for it being more important to 'disclose' and fall out with my family, or cause them unnecessary worry, rather than logically hide this, I don't get that at all.

My partner hides his status in many areas of life, purely because it is in his interest to do this. Surely it is about beating prejudice by winning this by doing what is most advantageous to us, and if that means hiding this then so be it.

For me, it is entirely about HIV. It's a fact that discrimination is everywhere, in employment, socially, and within families. For myself and partner there are no benefits to disclosure, it would just create unnecessary discomfort and disadvantage for us that we really don't need.

It is what it is, the discrimination is there, and it is bad, it's unfair. I didn't create it, I am affected by it, but no one can be blamed for bowing under its pressure especially if it makes sense not to challenge it.

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2016, 07:55:02 am »
Saying this is an excuse to leave my partner at home is pretty strong stuff!

Obviously I want him to go more than anything, he is the person I enjoy spending time with more than any other person.

I am disappointed that there is lack of understanding from some that this is a real phenomena. Neg partners do have to deal with this in a different way from their partners and there are all kinds of issues created by HIV.

There seems to be a culture of blame instead on anyone that does not fight the fight?

For me this is a difficult position to be in, I am torn by my desire to take my partner on a fantastic holiday, but also very worried at the consequences of my parents finding out. The risks here are real, and I need to minimise this risk where possible. I'm disappointed that people don't understand this,many instead say things like this is an excuse to not take him.


I think it is naive to compare HIV to any other medical condition, as the prejudice is not there with other medical conditions such as diabetes, and again, don't blame me, I didn't cause the prejudice, but it is there it is real, and it can be life destroying.

This is a very difficult position to be in. I appreciate everyone's comments, it's good to not be on your own. I hope that everyone also appreciates my honesty here, as this is something that we all need to live with in the best way we can without judgement.


Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2016, 08:07:58 am »
Cavey, thanks, some good honest advice here, and this is something that I may have to face one day, especially if partner becomes very ill. But it is entirely about HIV, and life is not a breeze.

Hopefully my partner can change tablets, and this will help here, otherwise he will really suffer with the sun. As I said, his reaction is severe, and not like a normal sun irritation reaction.

He has asked whether I will pay for a spray tan for him, and I think this is a great idea, and if it makes him feel more confident fantastic.

Let's see what happens, September is a few months away.

Offline leatherman

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2016, 08:18:14 am »
I think the conclusion I am drawing here, which is something I wanted to understand is that few will make any concession, or acknowledge that the prejudice around HIV can be a real problem faced by negative partners.
just stop. please stop. You're talking to a forum full of HIV positive people who totally understand the prejudism against HIV+ people. Quit lecturing us on your poor butthurt sensibilities. We live with these issues every day. We understand our negative friends, families and partners deal with it too.

But the answer is NOT to hide; but to fight against the prejudism at every turn. It's not a "culture of blame". it's about the only way to stop the stigma - by fighting back.

You came here with your personal problems (the discomfort/hatred of your parents that pushes you and your boyfriend into the closet about a disease; your unease of living with, and dealing with, the consequences of an HIV+ partner; your lack of forethought to arrange a vacation with your partner and bigoted family members) seeking an answer; but you don't like our answers. It's quite simple - You either go on the vacation that you planned and deal with the issues that we HIV positive people deal with everyday, or you don't go on the vacation the way you planned it. You certainly won't get our blessings for leaving your HIV+ partner home because of your fear of your parents and their opinions. Stand up, have some self confidence, make the decision yourself, and be a grownup - either pick your parents or pick you partner.

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Offline zach

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2016, 08:26:16 am »
:::: rant deleted ::::

YOU ARE THE STIGMA!!!!

Offline mecch

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2016, 08:28:36 am »
Jeevsey1968

I for one am listening to your perspective and point of view. I think most of us here are.  But that doesn't change my advice. 

You know several years ago I talked a guy from Africa off the ledge from suicide as he was so convinced that it was absolutely impossible to continue his life and career as HIV+. That is how strong his cultural mindset that HIV was the worst of the worst of the worst and impossible to go on.

How exactly you ended up with your mindset that lets HIV RULE, not your own integrity and human rights, I don't know. You were born in Cyprus? Are you muslim? Christian?  Are your parents really such small-minded bigots?  Or is it yourself.

This weekend a child of BIGOTS who turned into a sociopath and hated the freedoms of his own country - hated women being free, hated equal rights, hated to see too men kissing, plowed down 100 people due to the cognitive dissonance of it all. 

That is a PRISON OF THE FUCKING MIND and terrifying. 

I am going to guess you have a good education? You seem to have money, at least. What exactly is your excuse for letting a virus and the hatred and prejudice and bigotry of the world pollute your own mind?

How on earth did you ever get the spine to love a man, but then lose it when it came to HIV?

Read Sontag's book, maybe it will give you a kick in the intellect. 

And some couple's therapy might be in order.

The thing is, you let the worst of the world's smallness wire own cognitive synapses. And you give yourself ENTIRELY too much power to control situations, but based on rather il-suited ways of thinking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_and_Its_Metaphors




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Offline LukasAtlPZ

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2016, 01:17:56 pm »
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the comments, I think you are being a bit harsh.

It's not about how I feel, I'm fine, I wouldn't be with him otherwise? I wouldn't stick by him and support him in the way I do, but there is the reality of how certain other people will feel, or act, and it's a reality that neg partners have to deal with, and yes I am afraid of the consequences of disclosure in certain cases. All of my direct closest friends know, this has never been a problem, but why should I be criticised for not wanting to mess up my job, or for having my aggressive father disown me? And this upsetting my elderly ill mother?

My partner never told his own mother, and she has now sadly passed away. He didn't tell her because he did not want to worry her. I didn't accuse him of sticking his head in the sand? his relatives don't know either.

It's a bit like a situation I had at work a few years ago. It was the works Chritmas party, and partners were allowed to come. My partner did not want to come, and I did not want to particularly come out as gay at my work do anyway, so was relieved. This had nothing to do with being ashamed, but was a choice I have a right to. The world is incredibly prejudiced, and I felt that coming out at work would be detrimental to my prospects. That's not my fault, it's the way it is, and I am under no obligation to fight any battles I don't want to, neither should anyone criticise me for not tackling our homophobic, HIv prejudiced world.

HIV prejudice is a fact, it affects me too, I didn't create it, and I'm not obliged to tackle it if I don't feel comfortable.

Your partner is much more important than your blessed parents feelings. Who gives a crap what other people think or feel? Do they pay your bills? Live with you? No? Then their opinions don't make a damn.

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2016, 03:58:51 pm »
Hi Lukas, if only life was that simple! Other people's feelings matter very much, especially those of older people who may be worried and not understand, which is why my partner never told his Mother.

I spoke to my my partner, and explained the situation, and I was completely honest, I always have been. I think he is amazing as he understands how I feel, and said that if it was the other way around he would be absolutely the same. He understands that HIV also impacts me in a different way. Maybe that's why we have been together for 16 years, and will probably be for the duration.

I think we both understand that other people's feelings are very important here, and it is not all about us. Often there is nothing positive to be achieved by disclosure and in these cases it's a choice as to whether the benefits outweigh the effort and the unpleasantness we would both feel, and in this case it doesn't, neither of us want to ignite my bigoted father and upset the cart. He is over 70, it's not worth it and neither of us need a battle to prove anything.

Online Jim Allen

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2016, 04:08:08 pm »
I think we both understand that other people's feelings are very important here, and it is not all about us. Often there is nothing positive to be achieved by disclosure and in these cases it's a choice as to whether the benefits outweigh the effort and the unpleasantness we would both feel, and in this case it doesn't, neither of us want to ignite my bigoted father and upset the cart. He is over 70, it's not worth it and neither of us need a battle to prove anything.

Seriously your taking about gong on holiday nothing more than that, does your partner have HIV Positive branded on his forehead ?

Quit the drama.

Jim
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Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2016, 04:11:55 pm »
I know Jim, put it that way and you are right, I get you.

Good news is that he is going to the clinic to discuss a change of meds, I hope they can help. It seems to be the Atripla, and with his spray tan I think he will have a great time.

As long as he is not orange! Then he is def not coming 😡

Offline zach

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2016, 04:21:52 pm »
As long as he is not orange! Then he is def not coming 😡

you aren't cute, or funny

Offline CaveyUK

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2016, 05:59:07 pm »
I know Jim, put it that way and you are right, I get you.

Good news is that he is going to the clinic to discuss a change of meds, I hope they can help. It seems to be the Atripla, and with his spray tan I think he will have a great time.

As long as he is not orange! Then he is def not coming 😡

Really not sure the spray tan is necessary.

I really don't think I have anything new to add at the moment.

I think you should go enjoy your holiday with your partner and your parents. If they ask about appearances, make up some bullshit about some hormonal issues or something.

I still think you need to re-assess your own position on the situation and the relationship and improve communication with your partner. You need to get over putting HIV front-and-centre of everything you do and just accept that getting on with life is far more fulfilling. You don't need to disclose to anyone if you (and your partner) don't want to - thats fine - but don't then put barriers in the way of your relationship due to perceived stigma or reactions. Everything you posted points at a malfunctioning relationship, so fix it. And that means taking a long hard look at yourself and your approach.

Wishing you all the best
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Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2016, 07:33:43 pm »
Thanks Zach, I don't resort to any personal criticism, so I guess I'm cuter than you.

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2016, 07:36:47 pm »
Thanks Cavey for the advice. It is appreciated.

I will do my best 😊


Offline zach

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2016, 08:33:36 pm »
ten required characters
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 08:45:03 pm by zach »

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2016, 04:36:33 am »
Anyone know how I put a pic on my profile? I can only see avatars?
Can't seem to find a link.

Offline zach

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2016, 01:37:05 pm »
 >:(

if you plan on being part of our community, please don't be so insulting of the physical ailments we deal with. if you are so ashamed of the way your partner looks, what support or fellowship do you hope to gain from the people that look the same when we hear you so clearly?

if you can't see you came in here, and from your first post, were a part of perpetuating the stigma we live with... YOU ARE WILLFULLY BLIND. and your emotional blackmail of your partner is shameful. i truly feel for him.

but, possibly we can affect some change in your attitudes. i doubt though, you seem pretty self centered. and for someone in a serodiscordant relationship for as long as you've been, you are still woefully ignorant of the virus, as demonstrated in your post on someone else's thread. but leatherman corrected you there, i hope you read his words and take them to heart. he is one of our wiser members.



now, to post a personal picture as your profile pic, it has to be hosted off site.

suggest you open a free account at http://imgur.com, post the picture there. it's fairly user friendly.

once you've posted that picture, look along the right sidebar under "share this image"

copy the text in the field labeled "direct link" to your clipboard, then return to this site

on this forums homepage, hover over the "profile" button" and select "forum profile" from the drop down menu

under personalized picture, select "Specify avatar by URL"

paste the url from your clipboard into the field to the right

scroll down, click "change profile"

« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 02:07:31 pm by zach »

Offline leatherman

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2016, 02:57:49 pm »
if you can't see you came in here, and from your first post, were a part of perpetuating the stigma we live with... YOU ARE WILLFULLY BLIND.
^ this FTW  :'( :-X

now, to post a personal picture as your profile pic, it has to be hosted off site.
Re: IMPORTANT: PERSONALIZED AVATARS/FORUMS PICTURES
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=32457.msg459476#msg459476
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Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2016, 03:29:51 pm »
Thanks for you opinions Zach, your version of my words and your judgement.

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2016, 03:33:15 pm »
BTW I'm extremely knowledgeable about HIV from a scientific point of view. I have worked for one of the largest global providers of HIV testing for 13 years in a scientific position.

Please get off my case, I did not come on here to have arguments, I came on here to be honest and share experiences.

No hard feelings.


Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2016, 03:36:02 pm »
BTW I'm knowledgeable about HIV from a scientific point of view. I have worked for one of the largest global providers of HIV testing for 13 years in a scientific position.

Please get off my case, I did not come on here to have arguments, I came on here to be honest and share experiences.

No hard feelings.


Offline zach

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2016, 03:41:51 pm »
Quote
BTW I'm knowledgeable about HIV from a scientific point of view

clearly /s

Quote
Please get off my case

not a chance

Quote
No hard feelings

speak for yourself

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2016, 04:58:59 pm »
I think it is best left, and you do not know the particulars of my sex life, or why it is as it is, you haven't asked. 

As for my relationship, you haven't asked either. Don't judge me please. I would imagine though that we will still be together for another 20 years yet, as we have a great relationship. I think the fact that we have not had sex for 12 years and are still together proves that we know what really matters.

I like everyone else cope to the best of my ability, I have my story to tell, and I should be allowed to do so in honesty and without attack. I don't create stigma, or the difficulties associated with it. But it is real, and I read with interest countless stories on here of others (incl HIV+) who also fear disclosure and its consequences. Would you suggest that someone who fears their local school will find out is selfish for not ditching their children?

You do not know my particular situation with regards to my father or what it will mean to both myself and partner, so please do not assume.

Please lay off me for this. We are all supposed to be working together, not against each other, so kindly stop giving opinions on me as a person, I have not stooped to this in any of my posts or conversations. Neither will you lure me into this.

No hard feelings.
Thank you.



Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2016, 05:02:11 pm »
Wrong forum, apologies. Ignore 🙂

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2016, 05:05:31 pm »
Hi Jim, and how would you determine if a person has suppressed  Viraemia with so many variables and unknowns?

The partner study does not conclude 'zero' in any place, particularly as the study and findings are not complete or published.

In the meantime safer sex is the way. It's simple to me.

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2016, 05:07:47 pm »
Ref's are provided on my posts. If you need more info let me know.

Also I have as much to add as you? I have experience, knowledge, same as you?

What's your point?

Offline Jeevsey1968

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2016, 05:11:06 pm »
Interesting responses Zach, you clearly need to feel you have impact.

Online Jim Allen

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2016, 05:14:27 pm »
TaSP and PrEP are part of safer sex, a number of studies have been completed and published on this and information and links have been provided.

Safer sex is often a combination of tactics to reduce risk. TaSP is a valid point as it simply reduces risk. Your posts however are inaccurate and you seems to be flaming trying to find an absolute in someone else's thread. If you want to discuss the focus of TaSP go right ahead but not the way your doing it.   

MOD NOTE:

I moved the last 4 posts from the other thread to your own thread.
Look I had warned you not to post in that thread and to drop it.  Instead you continued to post, Hijack the thread and flame the topic.

So you have earned yourself a TO now if you return after the TO I suggest you think before you post and do not post in that other thread again. Quit the flaming and quit the drama.

Also on the topic of drama when you start a thread keep in mind members are free to comment and voice their opinion whether you do or do not like it . Now if you do not agree with someone you are free to debate it if you want or ignore it if you like.

Also you will provide references for health/medical/scientific information  provided. Sweeping statements about what others recommend or don't is just not going to wash here.

When you post in someone else's thread keep it on topic and never do anything in terms of flame baiting. When a mod asks you to step out of the thread, its for a reason and we don't do it often.

Finally if you are having problems with another forum member, you have two options. One, you can use the Report to Moderator link found at the bottom of any post. Two, you can put that forum member on Ignore by using the link that appears at the bottom of the user information next to their post. You can unignore a member by going into your profile and taking them off the ignore list.

Jim
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 07:15:41 pm by JimDublin »
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Offline mecch

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2016, 09:45:21 am »
Jeevsey1968

Gee this isn't working out as you expected.

First you create this thread and people have the nerve to probe your own motivations and behaviours, let alone your relationship as well.

Then you hop into another thread, and pollute it with a bunch of old information about safe sex. And then get self righteous that you have "information" in some false equivalency that yours is as good as any other.

Give it a rest. 

Your needs DO count.  Gee, maybe you need to get laid.  Sounds like you fear HIV in many many ways that are damaging your quality of life.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline zettainaoru

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2016, 04:25:26 am »
Gee, maybe you need to get laid. 

I think this is the main problem.
Just get some PreP, & Get laid.
Its not the same as 20 years ago.

Just cant imagine myself years, even weeks without getting laid. 

Online Jim Allen

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Re: neg partner- my needs count too.
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2016, 02:56:49 am »
Hi All,

Without going into too many details we reviewed the threads and the follow-up communications sent to me after this TO and on the basis of that review, the TO was extended to a full and permanent ban.  I wanted to make sure any one who was commenting on the thread after the TO is aware that in this case OP will not be returning.

I am also locking the thread.

Jim

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=277.0

TaSP and PrEP are part of safer sex, a number of studies have been completed and published on this and information and links have been provided.

Safer sex is often a combination of tactics to reduce risk. TaSP is a valid point as it simply reduces risk. Your posts however are inaccurate and you seems to be flaming trying to find an absolute in someone else's thread. If you want to discuss the focus of TaSP go right ahead but not the way your doing it.   

MOD NOTE:

I moved the last 4 posts from the other thread to your own thread.
Look I had warned you not to post in that thread and to drop it.  Instead you continued to post, Hijack the thread and flame the topic.

So you have earned yourself a TO now if you return after the TO I suggest you think before you post and do not post in that other thread again. Quit the flaming and quit the drama.

Also on the topic of drama when you start a thread keep in mind members are free to comment and voice their opinion whether you do or do not like it . Now if you do not agree with someone you are free to debate it if you want or ignore it if you like.

Also you will provide references for health/medical/scientific information  provided. Sweeping statements about what others recommend or don't is just not going to wash here.

When you post in someone else's thread keep it on topic and never do anything in terms of flame baiting. When a mod asks you to step out of the thread, its for a reason and we don't do it often.

Finally if you are having problems with another forum member, you have two options. One, you can use the Report to Moderator link found at the bottom of any post. Two, you can put that forum member on Ignore by using the link that appears at the bottom of the user information next to their post. You can unignore a member by going into your profile and taking them off the ignore list.

Jim

« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 03:10:54 am by JimDublin »
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Transmission and Risks:
HIV Transmission and Risks
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

 


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