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Author Topic: Really worried from giving oral  (Read 3890 times)

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Offline MikeLM

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Really worried from giving oral
« on: October 04, 2015, 10:05:42 am »
Apologies for asking something that may have been asked before, but I just thought of writing you the specifics of my concern.

First, I have had no sexual relationships with another person in a year, and before that I tested several times negative. For a long while, my only form of sex is anal masturbation with dildos.

Two weeks ago I bought, from a sex shop, a new dildo. Once I got home (2 hours later) I took it out from the box and just whipped it under the water briefly. Then, with that dildo and using KY gel bought from a retail  store in UK, I performed anal insertion, WITHOUT condom, and for a long time, which most certainly led to anal area tearing.

I am telling this because approximately ten days later, after this dildo episode, a rash erupted on my chest and belly, and also there was nose burning  and sore throat. A few days into this, the rash is starting to fade away, while I am still recovering from what seems to be a flu.

This physicall reaction triggered major worries for me, in that something was wrong with the way the dildo purchase and use took place. Here is what worries me mostly:

- first, the dildo was sold at a discount, in a cartoon box indeed, but inside the box it was wrapped just in a plastic sheet and NOT sealed in a hard plastic case. So anyone with access and desire might have used that dildo and then put it back in the box;

- the material the dildo was made from was porous (with visible pores), as it was very soft and intended to give the "real" feeling" to the user;

- even the KY gel did not have a seal on the cap, which is also weird given that I bought it in a big retail store here in UK.

Did not think much of these at the time, but now I am really worried that:

- the dildo might have been used before and then simply put back in that box to be sold;
- if it had been used, then the porous material might have retained some active HIV inside its pores;
- i did not clean the dildo before use and then I used it with NO condom, in direct contact with anal tearing and most likely blood.
- even that the KY gel was unsealed (and here I become paranoid I know, but this is how some of our obsessive minds work);

What is the HIV infection risk associated with this episode?  If my stupid scenario described above were true, would my dildo episode count as HIV risk, as if in sharing sex toys among users? Do I need HIV testing?

Gratefully waiting your advice, with apologies for my over reaction. Thank you.

Offline Wade

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2015, 10:30:24 am »
Hi,
HIV is transmitted sexually through unprotected anal and vaginal intercourse.
The dildo you used posed no risk of infection.
Your symptoms have nothing to do with HIV ,and we do not discuss them.
Please go see your doctor about your concerns.
Wade
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Offline MikeLM

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2015, 10:37:49 am »
Wade,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

So, do I need HIV testing for this episode?


Offline Wade

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2015, 10:46:56 am »
You do not need to test.
HIV does not survive outside the body ,the virus is very fragile
and is damaged and rendered unable to infect.

  To avoid infection...

You need to be using condoms for all anal and vaginal intercourse until you are in a trusting monogamous relationship and both have been tested for all STDs and HIV.

Everyone who is sexually active should have an annual exam for all STDs and HIV ,and always after unprotected intercourse. Always using condoms will give you peace of mind your tests will return with a negative result.
Wade

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Offline MikeLM

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 04:23:47 am »
Two days ago I gave unprotected oral on an unknown man, in park, along with mutual masturbation and some unprotected frottage (he did not enter my anus).
Not sure if he ejaculated in my mouth (I don’t quite recall all details) but i must have gotten some pre-cum from him. My mouth was very, very dry so not much saliva to protect me.
Since I don’t know his status I assume now he’s HIV positive. Stupid of me, I should’ve used protection - I know - now it’s too late to think.

The second day I got a sore throat and freaked. Within 12 hours I went to the healthcare provider and got myself on PEP (Combivir).

 I am now really freaked, suddenly losing sleep, high anxiety, etc

Given the above situation, what is the real risk of getting infected?

Thanks for advice.

Online JimDublin

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 04:41:13 am »
Mutual masturbation and some unprotected frottage is not a HIV concern, HIV is simply not acquired this way - End of story!

With regards to giving a BJ your mouth has dozens of protein and enzymes that damage the virus and render it unable to infect also without damage your mouth lacks the cells (route) to infect.

Its such a near negligible risk so much so that that we do not recommend testing over giving a BJ, so there is no need to run test every time you give a blow job, just get tested the next time you are due for a routine check-up.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, every time, no exceptions.

Keep in mind that some sexual practices which may be described as ‘safe’ in terms of HIV transmission might still pose a risk for transmission of other STI's, so please do get fully tested regularly and at least yearly for all STI's including but not limited to HIV and test more frequently if unprotected intercourse occurs
Also note that it is possible to have an STI and show no signs or symptoms and the only way of knowing is by testing.

More information on HIV Basics, PEP, TaSP and Transmission can be found through the links in my signature to our POZ pages, this includes information on HIV Testing

Kind regards

Jim

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Offline MikeLM

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 05:07:37 am »
Thank you very much for your quick reply. Apologies for this follow-up question

 Would a canker sore at the back of the throat qualify as mouth damage/open wound?

Also, I read studies in the past failed to prove hiv transmission in serodiscordant couples via oral sex alone?
Does that still hold true nowadays? Are there any  other studies proving giving oral as real (not theortical) risc?

Online JimDublin

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 05:37:11 am »
Quote
Would a canker sore at the back of the throat qualify as mouth damage/open wound?

Nope but even if you had a gaping hole like meth mouth there are plenty of other barriers such as saliva and your risk assessment would not change.

Quote
Also, I read studies in the past failed to prove hiv transmission in serodiscordant couples via oral sex alone?

Correct

Quote
Does that still hold true nowadays?

Yes not the role of saliva damaging HIV and lack of route are now far better known

Quote
Are there any other studies proving giving oral as real (not theortical) risc?

Nothing in the past 25 years, there are a few reported cases but nothing in studies to confirm this and we understand the barriers to this concern.

Hence I said its a near negligible risk but no reason to run out and test over something so small of a concern. Look you asked for a risk assessment and we have provided one. 

The truth is there is allot of misinformation and stories on the internet and lots of opinions or outdated data that get passed around as facts, We however rely on the latest scientific peer reviewed science for our assessments. This also gets fed back into the poz pages on transmission risks if needed and great effort is put into ensuring the message is clear.

Now there are simply biological requirements for transmission of HIV and after 40 years there has been no proven infections found not to meet those requirements, the contrary is actually true with early case only documented "other route" claims later being disproved as testing and HIV typing became available.

When we talk about giving a BJ as its meets some of the theoretical conditions needed for transmission and some cases claimed however no confirmed documented cases from studies, or long term follow-ups and also a scientific understanding of why this act would be such a near negligible concern and so we class it as nothing to specifically test over, over the years studies have provided an understanding of the barriers at play and what rare or extremes conditions would be considered a real world risk giving insights into how the few reported cases could have happened although self-reported data should not be taken as proof.

All in all your risk assessment is as follows and what you do with this is ultimately up to you.

Giving a BJ your mouth has dozens of protein and enzymes that damage the virus and render it unable to infect also without damage your mouth lacks the cells (route) to infect.

Its such a near negligible risk, so much so that that we do not recommend testing over giving a BJ. There is no need to run test every time you give a blow job, just get tested the next time you are due for a routine check-up

Kind regards

Jim


Saliva & barriers

Wu L Biology of HIV mucosal transmission. Curr Opin HIV AIDS 3(5): 534-540, 2008
Gupta K et al. How do viral and host factors modulate the sexual transmission of HIV? Can transmission be blocked? PLoS Med 3(2): e79, 2006
CDC

Baeten J et al. Genital HIV-1 RNA Quantity Predicts Risk of Heterosexual HIV-1 Transmission. Sci Transl Med. 6; 3(77): 77ra29, 2011

Fiscus SA et al. Changes in HIV-1 subtypes B and C in genital tract RNA in women and men after initiation of antiretroviral therapy. Clin Infect Dis, 57(2):290-7, 2013
Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update

J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

Romero J et al. Evaluating the risk of HIV transmission through unprotected orogential sex. AIDS 16:9:1269-97, 2002.

In total almost 19,000 instances of unprotected oral sex were estimated to have occurred involving the 135 couples over the ten years of the study, but not a single case of HIV transmission was detected.

No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS:  Volume 16(17)  22 November 2002  pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan

Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117

Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/12wac/21143.html

Saliva neutralizes HIV-1 infection by displacing envelope gp120 from the virion.

Int Conf AIDS 1998 Jun 28-Jul 3; 12:267 (abstract no. 21143)

Malamud D, Nagashunmugan T, Friedman HM, Davis CA, Abrams WR
Dept. Biochemistry Univ. Penn Dental Med., Phila 19104-6003, USA.

BACKGROUND: Incubation of HIV-1 with human saliva decreases infectivity. This inhibition is specific for HIV-1, with no effect on adenovirus, HIV-2 or SIV and appears to work at the level of the virus rather than the host cell. We have now identified an active protein fraction and provide evidence that the mechanism of action involves stripping of gp120 from the virus.

CONCLUSION: The specific inhibition of HIV-1 infectivity by human submandibular saliva is associated with removal of gp120 from the virus. The active fraction contains several proteins, including two high molecular weight glycoproteins.

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/4croi/412.html

Mechanisms of anti-HIV-1 activity of human submandibular saliva.
Conf Retroviruses Opportunistic Infect 1997 Jan 22-26; 4th:140 (abstract no. 412)
Nagashunmugam T, Malamud D, Davis C, Friedman HM; University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA.

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/12wac/60770.html

Neutralizing effect of secretory IgA to HIV in parotid saliva of HIV-infected patients.

Int Conf AIDS 1998 Jun 28-Jul 3; 12:1142 (abstract no. 60770)

Moja P, Desgranges C, Pozzetto B, Lucht F, Genin C
Gimap University of St.-Etienene, France.

BACKGROUND: The aim of this study was to test S-IgA purified from secretions of HIV seropositive patients in a neutralization assay to determine whether specific S-I&A can protect from HIV infection.

CONCLUSION: These data demonstrate that secretory IgA, which is the predominant isotype in secretions, can inhibit HIVMN infection of MT4 cells. HIV neutralization has been carried out with CD4+ T cell line adapted virus strain as a standardized model system, but the use of mucosal autologous primary isolates in neutralization test would be useful to estimate the actual protective effect of these antibodies in each patient.

Wu L Biology of HIV mucosal transmission. Curr Opin HIV AIDS 3(5): 534-540, 2008
Gupta K et al. How do viral and host factors modulate the sexual transmission of HIV? Can transmission be blocked? PLoS Med 3(2): e79, 2006
CDC

Stories and inaccuracy in self-reporting:

2018
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0032885517753163

Underreporting in HIV-Related High-Risk Behaviors: Comparing the Results of Multiple Data Collection Methods in a Behavioral Survey of Prisoners in Iran

Participants reported more sexual contact in prison for their friends than they did for themselves. In men, NSU provided lower estimates than direct questioning, whereas in women NSU estimates were higher. Different data collection methods provide different estimates and collectively offer a more comprehensive picture of HIV-related risk behaviors in prisons.


2018
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5268760/

Socially desirability response bias and other factors that may influence self-reports of substance use and HIV risk behaviors: A qualitative study of drug users in Vietnam

The accuracy of self-report data may be marred by a range of cognitive and motivational biases, including social desirability response bias

2018
http://emj.bmj.com/content/35/1/46
Self-perceived risk of STIs in a population-based study of Scandinavian women

Subjective perception of risk for STI was associated with women’s current risk-taking behaviours, indicating women generally are able to assess their risks for STIs. However, a considerable proportion of women with multiple new partners in the last 6 months and no condom use still considered themselves at no/low risk for STI.

2017
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28509997

Social Desirability Bias and Prevalence of Sexual HIV Risk Behaviors Among People Who Use Drugs in Baltimore, Maryland: Implications for Identifying Individuals Prone to Underreporting Sexual Risk Behaviors.

2017 --In regards to STI's
https://journals.lww.com/stdjournal/toc/2017/07000
Sexually Transmitted Diseases: July 2017 - Volume 44 - Issue 7 - p 390–392

Is Patient-Reported Exposure a Reliable Indicator for Anogenital Gonorrhea and Chlamydia Screening in Young Black Men Who Have Sex With Men?

Among 485 young black men who have sex with men recruited in Jackson, MS, 90-day anal sexual exposure significantly predicted rectal infection, but 19.4% of rectal infections would have been missed among men denying receptive anal sex. Reports of consistent condom use were associated with lower infection rates only in men reporting insertive anal sex.

2009
The Validity of Teens’ and Young Adults’ Self-reported Condom Use
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/articlepdf/380711/poa80067_61_64.pdf

A significant degree of discordance between self-reports of consistent condom use and YcPCR positivity was observed. Several rival explanations for the observed discordance exist, including (1) teens and young adults inaccurately reported condom use; (2) teens and young adults used condoms consistently but
used them incorrectly, resulting in user error; and (3) teens and young adults responded with socially desirable answers

BMC Public Health 2007
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-7-60

Analyses of data from the Demographic and Health Surveys, Sexual Behaviour Surveys and from other countries show a similar pattern indicating under-reporting
It is probable that as HIV campaigns encouraging delayed sexual debut and abstinence before marriage reach the population, people will report behaviour
assumed to be more socially desirable.

there are some signs of differential reporting bias in our study. We found that controlling for less risky sexual behaviour substantially reduced the association between HIV and survey time among urban men, but less so among women; this may suggest that self-reports from men about sexual behaviour are more reliable. Studies suggest that respondents, especially women, tend to under-report the number of lifetime sexual partners . Therefore, analyses of associations with, and changes in, self-reported sexual behaviour should be interpreted with caution.

2010
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2957626/

Self-presentation bias (wishing to be viewed in a positive light) may result in patients underreporting behaviors they perceive to be stigmatizing

Approximately a third of the men in the sample reported that they did not disclose all of their risk behaviors to the HIV counselor during the face-to-face risk assessment. These results echo similar studies of risk disclosure to medical providers

2018
Jim - Self-reported data should be taken with a liberal pitch of salt. Plenty of reasons people don't disclose sexuality, risks or true transmission routes.  Conclusion from below seems to be that some of the self-reported heterosexual mens HIV was more than likely actually non-disclosed MSM .

Non-disclosed men who have sex with men in UK HIV transmission networks: phylogenetic analysis of surveillance data


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanhiv/article/PIIS2352-3018(18)30062-6/fulltext


« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 05:39:34 am by JimDublin »
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
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HIV Transmission and Risks
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HIV prevention
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PEP and PrEP

Offline MikeLM

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2018, 06:31:11 am »
I admit that I’m OCDing about this but I was not happy with my doc’s decision to give me Combivir alone for PeP. General consensus nowadays ia that a PEP regimen has to include three medication rather than two.

So today I went back to my phyisician and insisted that he adds Kaletra to the PEP
combo. My argument was that there was pre-cum and other discharge in my mouth during my giving oral and that was an exposure.

 Now I am frustrated because I had begun taking Combivir-alone at 10 hours post exposure and I only added Kaletra in at 56 hours post-exposure. Really I do not get why doc did not gave me the full drug combination, Combivir+Kaletra, at the intial 10 hour mark.

Now I‘m wondering if this whole PEP thing still makes sense. Do you have any experience with the efficacy of Combivir alone, or whether adding another drug later on may still have erficacy in preventing infection? Apologies,just needed to share this.. could you advise?

Online JimDublin

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2018, 10:38:28 am »
Look what you posted here was no real world exposure, no reason to test, let alone PEP.

Stressing about its effectiveness against nothing is pointless and a waste of my time and your life, even if you had had a real exposure it would be a pointless concern

Bi therapy for PEP is prescribed often enough and you started the 3rd drug within the timeframe. No point getting worked up about this and there is nothing more we can do in this setting for you.

Jim

HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
HIV 101
Transmission and Risks:
HIV Transmission and Risks
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

Offline MikeLM

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 06:50:10 am »
Currently I live in a third world country in Eastern Europe and the only place I could get PEP was from an HiV/Infectious diseases hospital.

Yesterday, I went to that hospital to get the rest of my PEP medication and they had me do a blood draw there.

In the waiting room were people who were actually ill, patients in the hospital (people with HIV, hepatitis, TBC, etc) and I felt incredibly sad because some of them were actually very thin, very ill and some were even in pain. Trully, one must see such a place to ubderstand the shock.

I thought of running out of there l, as I was literally panicked, but then I needed the rest of PEP medication. My turn to get my blood drawn came right after one of these patients finished having his own blood drawn.

So I took his place in the chair and then the nurse showed me the sealed needle.
But then she proceeded to feel my vein WITHOUT GLOVES AND WITHOUT WASHING HER HANDS after the prior patient.

 I didn’t have time to react as she punctured my vein. What she also did - and realized until it was too late for me to say anything - was that SHE PLACED THE COTTON BALL DIRECTLY ON THE ARM OF THE CHAIR where I was sitting, right next to my elbow , EXACTLY WHERE THE PRIOR PATIENT ‘s ELBOW har rested two minutes before.

After she finished drawing blood, the nurse grabbed that piece of cottog off the arm of the chair and swipped my puncture. Then, with the same ungloved hands she unsealed a small bandate and placed it on my still bleeding puncture wound.

The whole experince felt unreal in the worst way and I asked the nurse if there is any risk from the way she proceed. She immediately got upset, she told me she does this all day and she expedited me.

The whole operation in that waiting room felt like I traveled back in time (I used to live in States for two decades) and left there in shock.

Anyway, had this not happened in an actual HIV ward, I would have dismissed the whole thing. But since I had my blood drawn right after an HIV patient I find myself myself now filled with more anxiety than even a few days before. I feel like I’m going from bad to worse, mistake after mistake.
 
Would you be so kind again to please advise on whether there was any possible exposure from all this s experience - from the unwashed hands, from the cotton placed right where the prior patient’s blood had been drawn? Does the fact that all happenee in a HIV environment makes it riskier? 
 
Gratefully, thank you.


Offline MikeLM

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2018, 07:07:35 am »
 I live in a deveoping country in Eastern Europe and the only place I could get PEP was from an HiV/Infectious diseases hospital. Yes, we have such place here, where infected people get treatment.

Following a concern re me giving oral to an unknown man, I went to that HIV hospital to get the rest of my PEP medication - they had only given me half of medication- and they had me do a blood draw there.

In the waiting room were people who were actually ill, patients in the hospital (people with HIV, hepatitis, TBC, etc) and I felt incredibly sad because some of them were actually very thin, very ill and some were even in pain. Trully, one must see such a place to ubderstand the shock.

I thought of running out of there l, as I was literally panicked, but then I needed the rest of PEP medication. My turn to get my blood drawn came right after one of these patients finished having his own blood drawn.

So I took his place in the chair and then the nurse showed me the sealed needle.
But then she proceeded to feel my vein WITHOUT GLOVES AND WITHOUT WASHING HER HANDS after the prior patient.

 I didn’t have time to react as she punctured my vein. What she also did - and realized until it was too late for me to say anything - was that SHE PLACED THE COTTON BALL DIRECTLY ON THE ARM OF THE CHAIR where I was sitting, right next to my elbow , EXACTLY WHERE THE PRIOR PATIENT ‘s ELBOW har rested two minutes before.

After she finished drawing blood, the nurse grabbed that piece of cottog off the arm of the chair and swipped my puncture. Then, with the same ungloved hands she unsealed a small bandate and placed it on my still bleeding puncture wound.

The whole experince felt unreal in the worst way and I asked the nurse if there is any risk from the way she proceed. She immediately got upset, she told me she does this all day and she expedited me.

The whole operation in that waiting room felt like I traveled back in time (I used to live in States for two decades) and left there in shock.

Anyway, had this not happened in an actual HIV ward, I would have dismissed the whole thing. But since I had my blood drawn right after an HIV patient I find myself myself now filled with more anxiety than even a few days before. I feel like I’m going from bad to worse, mistake after mistake.
 
Would you be so kind again to please advise on whether there was any possible exposure from all this s experience - from the unwashed hands, from the cotton placed right where the prior patient’s blood had been drawn? Does the fact that all happenee in a HIV environment makes it riskier? 
 
Gratefully, thank you.

Online JimDublin

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2018, 07:20:45 am »
Quote
from the unwashed hands, from the cotton placed right where the prior patient’s blood had been drawn? Does the fact that all happenee in a HIV environment makes it riskier? 

It was not a HIV risk. She could have never in her life washed her hands for all i care, treated a million people living with HIV before you and stuff the cotton wool in an unmentionable place before putting it on your arm. It still would not pose any risk of acquiring HIV to you. 

I have no idea why you think this was a concern. Stop posting irrational thoughts, stop with the caps. Its getting very silly now and no longer funny.

This level of irrational concern belongs to the 1980's.

Jim
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 07:27:12 am by JimDublin »
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Offline MikeLM

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2018, 10:38:35 am »
Many many thanks!
You’re right. It must be my lack of education on the topic. This is why the help fromyou guys makes such a great difference.
Many thanks!

Online JimDublin

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2018, 01:19:01 pm »
Mike.

I'm going to say this out of kindness, please don't post about this BJ - PEP or Testing again as I will treat it as excessive posting and issue a 28 day time out. Its not punishment its simply because I am not helping you by allowing you to post here instead of dealing with your issues. 

You can read information about HIV and how it is transmitted in my signature, I have already given you additional context plenty in this thread.

You had no reason to test in the first place or to take PEP and stressing about this is a waste of your life as you had nothing to fear, on top of that the testing procedure was no possible risk to you.

If you can't move past this thought process by yourself please seek face to face support to help you learn how to cope and manage your thinking and fears. PEP and Testing over nothing is not a healthy way to cope.

Jim 
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
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Transmission and Risks:
HIV Transmission and Risks
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HIV Testing
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HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
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PEP and PrEP

Offline MikeLM

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2018, 05:12:21 am »

Many apologies for reposting my story. I'm dying of anxiety and just need some advice to help me get my mind back. I've done a series of mistakes, as follows:
      32 days ago i performe fellatio to an unknown man, I'm pretty sure there was some pre-cum involved but cannot recall details as I was intoxicated. Had a very dry mouth and a cold sore so next day I thought of seeking PEP. Here is where the second mistake begins.
   I live in an East European country and in order to get PEP I had to go to the infectious diseases hospital. I went to the ward where HIV people are treated. I begged practically for medication - my second mistake - as the doctor did not intially wanted to give me any, on account of low risk exposure. I was put on Combivir at 12 hours post incident and two days later, at 60 hours, I added Kaltera.
   Finished the PEP course w lots of pains ( diarrhea episodes, abdominal cramps, nausea, etc).
   My third mistake: when I got the PEP medication I had to give blood right in the infectious diseases ward. This is a very poor hospital and there were serious hygiene issues. I had two give blood at two weeks distance. The first time I had to give blood, nurse did not wear gloves, she touched my vein with bare hands after she swiped with alcohol. What haunts me is that she did not show me the sealed needle. My big mistake, for not asking her about th needle in that moment. I simply did not see where the needle came out.
Normally, I would try to have reasonable thoughts, but i got my blood draw after other hospital patients with HIV who were in qeue, to have blood draws or treatment.  I'm now obsessed that I might have gotten HIV from nosocomial hospital infection, from nurse s negligence. This is a thought which puts me down.

Again, I would have stayed calm, thinking about real risk (low for fellatio, theoretically non existent had the nurse used a new needle, etc).

However, at day 28, right before PEP ended, I started having rash: first som hives, very itchy on eruption and then persisting over the following days as red itchy dots. Had these hives on my lower feet, on the back of my fingers, on elbows, maybe a few on the back. Literally, i was feeling my skin itchy, i was scratching and then the hive would appear.
 But what drives me really scared is that I got several papules about 5mm, that do not itch, are redish and slightly raised, and have persisted (one on my abdomen, one on my shoulder, one on my back and forearm). Since day 28, at end of my PEP and up until today, day 32, I've kept getting this rashes.

At no time had fever, nor any lymph nodes. Pretty much just the rash who is getting scary as I would not have expected.

During this past month i had done some testing: PCR RNA at day 17 not-detectable (i was just trying to exclude ARS at that time), then Ag/Ab Combi tests (4th gen) negative, at day 28 and day 31, when I started getting the rash.

Apologies for the long story, i admit my stupidity (unprotected sex, than uncessesary PEP, than not asking the HIV nurse to show me the needle, put gloves etc). I know testing meeds to be done at 6 weeks, 3 months, etc.

The anxiety I have now is due to thinking that I'm seroconverting. Could it be the nosocomial infection from the poor hygiene in the hospital ward? Could it be the fellatio (which should have been lower risk)?

My skin is still itchy and rash is still persisting. At this point I'm not even sure where i got the exposure from. I'm just desperate and perplexed.

We don't have real HIV support here in this country, medication is scarce, hospitals are making people ill not well, etc.   I'm just desperate for how stupid I was.

Online JimDublin

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Re: Really worried from giving oral
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2018, 06:12:51 am »
As promised a 28 day ban.

You don't have HIV and stop messing about with PCR tests its not needed.

As for the nurse and hygiene issues its not a HIV concern. She could have never in her life washed her hands for all i care, treated a million people living with HIV before you and stuffed the cotton wool up her vagina before putting it on your arm.

It still would not pose any risk of acquiring HIV to you.

I can tell you that you had no HIV risk and that HIV never has and simply is not transmitted this way, your concerns meet none of the biological requirements. I however can't fix your persistent irrational fears and though process, I think if you continue to have groundless fears like this you should speak to a therapist face to face to help you cope with your thoughts and control your actions/reaction to the irrational thoughts. A qualified therapist could evaluate you and prehaps they might even help with simple sessions or something like cognitive-behavioral psychotherapy (CBT)

Jim

Mike.

I'm going to say this out of kindness, please don't post about this BJ - PEP or Testing again as I will treat it as excessive posting and issue a 28 day time out. Its not punishment its simply because I am not helping you by allowing you to post here instead of dealing with your issues. 

You can read information about HIV and how it is transmitted in my signature, I have already given you additional context plenty in this thread.

You had no reason to test in the first place or to take PEP and stressing about this is a waste of your life as you had nothing to fear, on top of that the testing procedure was no possible risk to you.

If you can't move past this thought process by yourself please seek face to face support to help you learn how to cope and manage your thinking and fears. PEP and Testing over nothing is not a healthy way to cope.

Jim
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 06:28:44 am by JimDublin »
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
HIV 101
Transmission and Risks:
HIV Transmission and Risks
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

 


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