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Author Topic: Battling HIV Naturally  (Read 42267 times)

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Offline Sean Castleton

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Battling HIV Naturally
« on: November 11, 2014, 06:23:12 am »
Greetings. I recently read an interesting article about a lectin protein in bananas termed "BanLec" that has proven to block the propagation of HIV. Lectins in general, are present in a myriad of foods, but are most abundant in grains, legumes and potatoes, and now in bananas. They hinder HIV by attaching to the virus and blocking it's receptors from infecting T-Lymphocyte cells. Hoorah for mother nature! Being a HIV+ person, needless to say, I have been eating alot more of these foods lately.
Further, raw garlic is a powerful weapon against microbes that can cause the onset of the disease AIDS. Some believe that if eaten daily, it eventually kills the HIV virus or any other bad critter lurking in your body. The beauty of garlic is, unlike modern antibiotics, bacteria and viruses can not become immune to the antimicrobial chemical "allicin" found in it. It is important to note that when preparing garlic, you want to mince it and let it set for about 10-15 minutes before eating it. The reason is because the oxygen in the air causes a chemical reaction between the compound allin and the enzyme allinase, producing allicin. However, although proven to kill the virus in vitro, the verdict is still out as to whether it can have the same result in the human body.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 06:42:56 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 06:38:04 am »
dude, you really missed the ball on your first post

your entire post is

bullshit

snake oil

false hope

dangerous

DO NOT ENTER

BEYOND HERE, THERE BE DRAGONS


Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 06:50:23 am »
dude, you really missed the ball on your first post

your entire post is

bullshit

snake oil

false hope

dangerous

DO NOT ENTER

BEYOND HERE, THERE BE DRAGONS

Zach, usually I do not respond to trolls, especially ones that believe in dragons and crystal balls and the like...All I can tell you is to book-up a little to present a logical debate before attempting to trash someone's blog. If eating food were dangerous, we would all be dead.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 06:57:20 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 06:55:57 am »
If you are HIV+, stick around and learn something.
So far there are no proven therapies that fight this virus besides pharma meds. None.
If you are HIV- , please go away.
Zach is not a troll.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 06:59:04 am »
whatever man

you say you're hiv positive. then why don't you introduce yourself first, get to know us a little. you call me a troll, i've been here for a minute. you, not so much. i'm known, and yeah my rude attitude is known. we're both taking our chances getting spanked by the gods.

i sure hope you are on haart meds.

your first post is pushing pseudoscience, and you tell me to book up. hilarious

this thread is young, but i predict it is not going to go well. it was cumin last week, black seed a few weeks ago. we hear this shit on a semi regular basis.

dragons and trolls! i want to believe

Being a HIV+ person, needless to say, I have been eating alot more of these foods lately.

really? truthfully, i don't buy it. i call bullshit.

If eating food were dangerous, we would all be dead.

if we don't take haart meds, we would all be dead. eating garlic and bananas won't kill you, but it WON'T DO A DAMN THING for hiv.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 07:07:27 am by zach »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 08:08:19 am »
Being a HIV+ person, needless to say, I have been eating alot more of these foods lately.


How long have you been diagnosed and are you on HIV medications or not?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 08:48:12 am »
Zach, usually I do not respond to trolls, especially ones that believe in dragons and crystal balls and the like...All I can tell you is to book-up a little to present a logical debate before attempting to trash someone's blog. If eating food were dangerous, we would all be dead.

Welcome to the forum . An introduction would be nice ... please tell us a little about your self and most importantly, do you have HIV ? . Please be aware that name calling is not allowed on the forum so please find other ways to express yourself .

The only thing that will save a persons life if they have HIV is HAART ... nothing else works and it really is just that simple . I'm asking for every one to bring the tone back down to civil ... these things usually don't end well but I will be watching .
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 08:50:18 am by Jeff G »
HIV 101 - Basics
HIV 101
You can read more about Transmission and Risks here:
HIV Transmission and Risks
You can read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
You can read more about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read more about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
You can read more about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2014, 10:11:37 am »
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/dec2001/niaid-05.htm

i'd suggest everyone take the time to do about five minutes of objective google research. be cautious of where you get your information. garlic can have a negative interaction with some hiv meds. a lot of supplements can. you should always speak to your doctor, and you'll find that most of the time they will advise against

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2014, 11:25:12 am »
Sean,

Welcome to the forums (though I'm sorry you have to be here, if you know what I mean).  I'm eager to learn about your history with HIV.  I think you'll find a lot of useful information and support here on the forums.  And lots of diverse opinions too (just like any other online forums).

As someone who has been dealing with HIV for 25+ years, I suggest you be wary of those proposing "natural" remedies for HIV.  Having had HIV since before effective medications were available, I have seen people try almost anything / everything to try to keep HIV under control.  And I have seen a lot of people die.  That didn't change until better anti-retroviral medications became available in the later 1990s.  You'll see lots of people claiming health benefits for almost every conceivable (and some inconceivable) treatments / foods / nutritional supplements.  You have to cast a critical eye on those, to see if the data really backups them up (just like you would cast a wary eye on all the financial advice out there).

Us "old-timers" do know a thing or two when it comes to treating HIV, and we're passionate about it because we remember when there were not treatments.  If you want to do your own investigation, I think the best way to "separate the wheat from the chaff" is to look for scientific studies.  It's hard to argue with clinical data, and studies encompassing hundreds / thousands of people with HIV.  And it's the only way to know if something really works effectively against HIV.

Regards,

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline Jmarksto

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 04:45:07 pm »
Sean; Welcome to the forums - a little more introduction about yourself would go along way to getting to know each other.

With regard to the banana thing, with a quick google search I came up with this:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20080975

Here is the take away from that study:

Based on these results, BanLec is a potential component for an anti-viral microbicide that could be used to prevent the sexual transmission of HIV-1

Keep in mind: 1.)That this was a lab study - not tested in any people; 2.) There are all kinds of molecules that kills HIV, but that does not mean it works (or is good) in or on our body; 3.) If this works as a microbicide it may negatively effect other important microbes in our body.

The distinction between a lab study and clinical studies as Henry indicated is really critical to understanding the science. Secondly, it is critical to read and understand the details of the studies before administering or recommending any treatment (natural or otherwise).
03/15/12 Negative
06/15/12 Positive
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02/25/14 CD4   792/37% VL UD
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04/??/15 Truvada & Tivicay
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??/??/2017 Descov & Tivicay
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2018 VL UD, CD4 stable around 850

Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2014, 03:57:34 am »
whatever man

you say you're hiv positive. then why don't you introduce yourself first, get to know us a little. you call me a troll, i've been here for a minute. you, not so much. i'm known, and yeah my rude attitude is known. we're both taking our chances getting spanked by the gods.

i sure hope you are on haart meds.

your first post is pushing pseudoscience, and you tell me to book up. hilarious

this thread is young, but i predict it is not going to go well. it was cumin last week, black seed a few weeks ago. we hear this shit on a semi regular basis.

dragons and trolls! i want to believe

really? truthfully, i don't buy it. i call bullshit.

if we don't take haart meds, we would all be dead. eating garlic and bananas won't kill you, but it WON'T DO A DAMN THING for hiv.

OK dude, sorry that I called you a troll and that I didn't formally introduce myself. You just seemed to come off that way. Anyways, here's the low-down on my situation...

Back in '92 I got a huge boil on my back and went in to Wishard Hospital here in Indianapolis to get it lanced and a nurse there asked me if I would like to get a blood test. cuz a large boil can indicate that you could have an underlying illness. so I did. Three days later a black dude shows up at my door with a glum look on his face and informs me that I had the virus. So I get on the meds. After awhile, I noticed that they were having an effect with fat displacement on my body. It sucked, because they were causing me to get a paunch gut and man boobs. I've worked out with weights for about ten years and maintained a tight bod and kinda proud of it, so I was getting pissed.

So, fast forward...

I had an apartment in Cleveland, OH and would go there for the holidays to visit friends. Well, the last time I went home I got into some heavier than usual partying at the clubs with my buds cuz I hadn't seen them in awhile and stayed there longer than I planned and as a result ran out of my meds. Ok, so my best friend Chris who is also HIV+  tells me not to worry, because all I needed was to eat plenty of foods that contained lectin proteins and I would be fine and he pointed to sources from recent medical journals online to support his claim. He said that he was off his meds for 6 months and felt great and was eating these certain foods as well as a bulb of raw garlic a day. I believed him because he looked fine. So I decided, what the hell, I'll give it a try and figured that if I got sick I would just get back on the meds.

And so, I come back to Indy and got on this heavy lectin diet along with the raw garlic everyday for the last 4 months. I feel great and got my form back and guess I won't be needin' that D-Cup bra. So far, so good...

Listen, I'm not tryin' to sell any snake oil and certainly not suggesting that anyone try what I'm doin' I'm just sharing knowledge, that's all. I got kind of excited about the recent BanLec news and have since been eatin' bananas like a monkey and thought I'd drop a line about it. I'll keep you guys posted on my condition. And my friend Chris is still healthy after 9 months.

Peace out, Sean.  8)

« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 04:29:32 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 04:32:25 am »
Oh, did I mention that I'm a bottom boy? heheheh
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 04:35:31 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2014, 06:19:17 am »
Sean; Welcome to the forums - a little more introduction about yourself would go along way to getting to know each other.

With regard to the banana thing, with a quick google search I came up with this:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20080975

Here is the take away from that study:

Based on these results, BanLec is a potential component for an anti-viral microbicide that could be used to prevent the sexual transmission of HIV-1

Keep in mind: 1.)That this was a lab study - not tested in any people; 2.) There are all kinds of molecules that kills HIV, but that does not mean it works (or is good) in or on our body; 3.) If this works as a microbicide it may negatively effect other important microbes in our body.

The distinction between a lab study and clinical studies as Henry indicated is really critical to understanding the science. Secondly, it is critical to read and understand the details of the studies before administering or recommending any treatment (natural or otherwise).

You must not have read the same article I did. BanLec is not only a potential microbicide during intercourse, but also a potential treatment.

A bit more about the mechanics...

I did alot of research on lectins in general. The way they work is, lectin proteins bind to carbs or sugars in your blood stream. Now, not all viruses have a sugar based shell or coat, many of them are just protein. But HIV has a sugar based shell. In fact, this sugar shell helps it to hide from your immune system, as your antibodies regard it as a carb, but it can't hide from lectins! What lectins do, is naturally adhere like a glue to the the sugary coat of the HIV virus and block it's receptors from being able to attach to and infect your T-Cells. There are many classes of lectin proteins. Soy beans for example, have a lectin that not only binds to sugar compounds, but also is a natural protease inhibitor. Wheat germ has a certain lectin and alot of them, and legumes, which includes peanuts by the way, has a certain lectin and so do potatoes. And so, if you were eating an abundance of these various foods, it stands to reason that they would have to have an effect.

You can read more indepth about it from the following link:

http://unews.utah.edu/news_releases/targeting-hiv%E2%80%99s-sugar-coating/

« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 06:35:27 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2014, 06:30:20 am »
Well, the last time I went home I got into some heavier than usual partying at the clubs with my buds cuz I hadn't seen them in awhile and stayed there longer than I planned and as a result ran out of my meds. Ok, so my best friend Chris who is also HIV+  tells me not to worry, because all I needed was to eat plenty of foods that contained lectin proteins and I would be fine and he pointed to sources from recent medical journals online to support his claim. He said that he was off his meds for 6 months and felt great and was eating these certain foods as well as a bulb of raw garlic a day. I believed him because he looked fine. So I decided, what the hell, I'll give it a try and figured that if I got sick I would just get back on the meds.


A recipe for disaster, Sean, all folks.
You don't play doctor, you dont make decisions based on a few months experience. 30+ years experience on this disease, tens of thousands of hours by scientific minds, prove that the effective and life-prolonging, life-enhancing treatment of HIV is anti-viral combos provided by prescription from an MD.  Its that simple.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2014, 06:34:05 am »
if you are having problems with adherence or living with side effects you must see a therapist and steel yourself emotionally or resolve the emotional difficulty with body changes.  Also, examine why you would trust your non-scientific mind to keep you healthy.  Why let delusion take over, after all these years.
It DOES happen, its a sort of fatigue and hopelessness.  The only way through is therapy, I would guess.  Pity that Cher isn't your friend to slap you across the face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2014, 06:50:56 am »
if you are having problems with adherence or living with side effects you must see a therapist and steel yourself emotionally or resolve the emotional difficulty with body changes.  Also, examine why you would trust your non-scientific mind to keep you healthy.  Why let delusion take over, after all these years.
It DOES happen, its a sort of fatigue and hopelessness.  The only way through is therapy, I would guess.  Pity that Cher isn't your friend to slap you across the face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

Mecch, are you always this cheerful? LOL. All I can tell you is that I have been off my meds and strong and healthy now for the past 4 months. My doc told me that if I were to go off my meds, that I would be deathly ill in as little as 2 weeks. Yet, here I am. Ain't no puny virus takin' this boy down, believe it. And I don't need a therapist, thank you.  And yes, I do play doctor now and then, as I have healed myself of some afflictions in the past and have a broad knowledge of holistic medicine. If you have the ways and means to heal yourself, why get in bed with big pharma? Oh, and if Cher were to slap me, I would turn the other cheek. I love that ole gal!!!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 07:02:38 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2014, 07:05:59 am »
You might end up getting banned here for your viewpoints.
But my message is rational, based on personal experience. There are no holistic stops to an HIV infection and there are dozens of us older folks around who can relate that we helped our friends and lovers die before HAART when every and all holistic treatment failed. Everytime. Dead.
My message is neither angry nor sad or depressing.  The thing to do is take the proven treatment.  If there is something in your studies, then eventually professionals, including many professionals who are NOT employed by big pharma, and who have every interest in the least nocive, lowest cost, and most effective treatment for any disease, will help it get to us with a proof that it works. 
You are really in la-la land at the moment.  Your infection will rebound eventually so please do not exit the medical system, please continue to monitor your blood.  If your doctor told you what you quoted, he's an idiot but I highly suspect you invented that quote OR you have misunderstood.  Willful denial.
That's all I got.
"peace out"
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2014, 07:17:07 am »
Sean,

Welcome to the forums (though I'm sorry you have to be here, if you know what I mean).  I'm eager to learn about your history with HIV.  I think you'll find a lot of useful information and support here on the forums.  And lots of diverse opinions too (just like any other online forums).

As someone who has been dealing with HIV for 25+ years, I suggest you be wary of those proposing "natural" remedies for HIV.  Having had HIV since before effective medications were available, I have seen people try almost anything / everything to try to keep HIV under control.  And I have seen a lot of people die.  That didn't change until better anti-retroviral medications became available in the later 1990s.  You'll see lots of people claiming health benefits for almost every conceivable (and some inconceivable) treatments / foods / nutritional supplements.  You have to cast a critical eye on those, to see if the data really backups them up (just like you would cast a wary eye on all the financial advice out there).

Us "old-timers" do know a thing or two when it comes to treating HIV, and we're passionate about it because we remember when there were not treatments.  If you want to do your own investigation, I think the best way to "separate the wheat from the chaff" is to look for scientific studies.  It's hard to argue with clinical data, and studies encompassing hundreds / thousands of people with HIV.  And it's the only way to know if something really works effectively against HIV.

Regards,

Henry

Thank you for the words of wisdom. But it's been 4 months and running and I feel fine. Lectins are a fairly new discovery and your buds didn't have this knowledge back in the day. I was a bartender at an affluent gay bar in Cleveland (Mans World) and like you, I saw many of my dear friends pass, trying all types of alternative means, but they also partied like pigs to! heheheh, that certainly didn't help. You seem like a sweet guy and I do appreciate your concern. And if I were to see telltale signs that my health was failing, trust me, I am not foolish enuff to reject the meds.

Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2014, 07:25:50 am »
You might end up getting banned here for your viewpoints.
But my message is rational, based on personal experience. There are no holistic stops to an HIV infection and there are dozens of us older folks around who can relate that we helped our friends and lovers die before HAART when every and all holistic treatment failed. Everytime. Dead.
My message is neither angry nor sad or depressing.  The thing to do is take the proven treatment.  If there is something in your studies, then eventually professionals, including many professionals who are NOT employed by big pharma, and who have every interest in the least nocive, lowest cost, and most effective treatment for any disease, will help it get to us with a proof that it works. 
You are really in la-la land at the moment.  Your infection will rebound eventually so please do not exit the medical system, please continue to monitor your blood.  If your doctor told you what you quoted, he's an idiot but I highly suspect you invented that quote OR you have misunderstood.  Willful denial.
That's all I got.
"peace out"

I wasn't suggesting that you view is irrational Mecch. Honestly, if I were to fall ill, do you really think that I wouldn't go back on the meds? Of course I would. There are warning signs and it's not like I am going to drop dead over night. And again. I am not suggesting that anyone attempt what I am doing. And I'm not disrespecting your opinion in any way. OK?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 07:31:47 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2014, 07:41:32 am »
No you won't drop dead overnight. That is why the quote from you doctor is idiotic.  ::)

Do not avoid regular blood testing.  Do NOT assume you will get a "warning sign" that things are not going well.  Too much of what you say seems to be proofed by "I feel fine", and we ALL know that can often be a poor way to measure the prognosis of an HIV infection.

LOL hahaha peace out blah blah - you aren't saying that I am irrational, I am saying you are in the deep end without a life preserver.

Cheery banal expressions dont mask the seriousness of your circumstances based on your cowboy choices, or completely dismiss the observation that your posts can read a bit snake oily. 

« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 07:45:22 am by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2014, 07:53:22 am »
My perception is that you are doing a treatment interruption.  Your rational is an unproven, non expert hunch about holistic treatment. That is the snake oil part, from my perception.
There are ways to do treatment interruptions, for whatever reason one might do one, good or bad, and these ways to do a treatment interruption attempt to minimise damage. 
You don't have the right, in my opinion, to claim its about "battling HIV naturally".  My opinion is that you are doing this to meet some emotional need. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2014, 08:41:22 am »
the apology was unnecessary sean

you're going down a dark and dangerous road, at the end there is a hospital bed waiting for you. hope you don't get more than you've bargained for.

goodbye sean

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2014, 09:03:57 am »
I was a bartender at an affluent gay bar in Cleveland (Mans World) and like you, I saw many of my dear friends pass, trying all types of alternative means, but they also partied like pigs to! heheheh, that certainly didn't help.

It's sloppy reasoning to think not partying would have saved them or would have helped alternative "means" to work against HIV.  They died because HIV kills.  Its a bit insulting to their memory.  Nowadays, there are HIV+ people who party a lot and their immune systems are not crashing because they take effective HIV treatment.

If you are having a problem with body changes, see a therapist. Change your HIV treating doctor and try to find any possible solutions or slow downs to body changes. 

If you want to do a treatment interruption, change your doctor from the one who seems unhelpful and find a more spiritual and holistic MD who will support you in your experiment, even if he/she advises against it. 

Do not remove yourself from regular contact with doctors and labs, even if you can't see eye-to-eye on their world views... 

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2014, 09:15:37 am »
If your plan IS to distance yourself from docs during your treatment interruption, it sounds like some sort of denial or delusion, but I am not a shrink!  Please do not wait for feelings or signs of things going off.

Continue regular labs at least, and it might be a good idea to step up the lab work, perhaps 3 o 4 times a year?  That would be a safer way to conduct your experiment.  If you have insurance and labs aren't breaking the bank, what would be the downside? 
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Offline Almost2late

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2014, 09:34:13 am »
Hi Sean, you started an interesting thread here.. I've been hiv+ for probably 10-13 years before my dx Jan.2014 with very low cd4's (13) and I remember when I turned 50, I felt I was in the best shape of my life, cycling 100+ miles, knocking out 150 pushups in 1 set, I felt great :D.. and all that time I was hiv+ but I didn't know it..Now I'm 54 and still got aids numbers and can't seem to come close to what I was capable 4yrs ago.. I guess what I'm trying to say is that hiv can really fool you if you don't take care of it.. If bananas was a treatment, I think insurance companies would have refused to shell out for $1000 haart and sent us to the produce section instead.

I think your getting some great advice from the members here, but don't just take their word for it, do the research.. There have been many denialist that have made the mistake of doing without meds and are dead now.

Hope you keep an eye on your numbers.. wish you luck.

If your plan IS to distance yourself from docs during your treatment interruption, it sounds like some sort of denial or delusion, but I am not a shrink!  Please do not wait for feelings or signs of things going off.

Continue regular labs at least, and it might be a good idea to step up the lab work, perhaps 3 o 4 times a year?  That would be a safer way to conduct your experiment.  If you have insurance and labs aren't breaking the bank, what would be the downside? 
This is great advice
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 09:36:28 am by Almost2late »
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2014, 09:45:40 am »
The OP is is just plain wrong and misinformed … we all know that if you have HIV and you need treatment the only thing that will save your life is HAART therapy . This is an undisputed fact.

Sean . You have expressed your views in this thread so I am going to ask you to keep them in this one thread, meaning do not start or go into another thread and tell people you can eat your way back to health if you have HIV … if you do this you will be banned .

We are pretty tolarant around here but one of the cornerstones of the forum is about effective treatments and prevention and we will not tolerate inaccurate information to be dispensed from this forum . If you have come here for support then we will be there for you but if your purpose in joining us here is to spread the message you’re spouting in this thread you have come to the wrong place my friend … it will not happen . 
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Offline Buckmark

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2014, 10:02:03 am »
Sean,

It appears clear that no one here will be able to change your mind about the decision you have made to stop your HIV medications.  We long-timers are just trying to help and prevent you from becoming ill, because we've seen the situation over and over again.  But you're a long-timer, so you should have seen this too.  You won't become ill in weeks, or even months, it could be years, but you will become ill (unless you are an "elite controller", which I think your doctor would have determined by now).  You may not get any warning signs before getting ill.

As far as bananas and garlic go, there is not enough evidence to proclaim that they will battle HIV.  Scientific studies provide that kind of evidence, not articles or discussion or personal experience.  You say you are not promoting this to others, but you need to realize that just by posting your personal experience, others may read it and try to follow it.   

I know you are going to continue with this regimen.  Do I understand correctly that you will not also continue seeing your doctors or at least have regular labs?  That would at least provide some evidence that your bananas and garlic are (or are not) working.  If you do think you don't need medical monitoring, then you are in denial.

Lastly -- are you saying that your restored your physique and your moobs disappeared simply by stopping your HIV meds, and eating bananas and garlic?  No other physical exercise or dietary changes?  Which HIV meds had you been taking? 

And so, I come back to Indy and got on this heavy lectin diet along with the raw garlic everyday for the last 4 months. I feel great and got my form back and guess I won't be needin' that D-Cup bra. So far, so good...

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Offline wolfter

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2014, 10:31:33 am »
There are warning signs and it's not like I am going to drop dead over night. And again. I am not suggesting that anyone attempt what I am doing.

This is not always true.  many people present at the ER with full blown AIDS without ever having symptoms or experiencing seroconverstion.  Not all will recover and exit through the basement.  After being virually suppressed it can be even quicker (don't feel like finding any links at the moment).  The reactivated suppressed virus quickly replicates and rapidly multiplies.

There was a time I thought the molecules in white wine would keep the virus in check.  EPIC fail.   ;D  Now I realize it must be used in conjunction with HAART.
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Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2014, 10:52:35 am »
Sean,

It appears clear that no one here will be able to change your mind about the decision you have made to stop your HIV medications.  We long-timers are just trying to help and prevent you from becoming ill, because we've seen the situation over and over again.  But you're a long-timer, so you should have seen this too.  You won't become ill in weeks, or even months, it could be years, but you will become ill (unless you are an "elite controller", which I think your doctor would have determined by now).  You may not get any warning signs before getting ill.

As far as bananas and garlic go, there is not enough evidence to proclaim that they will battle HIV.  Scientific studies provide that kind of evidence, not articles or discussion or personal experience.  You say you are not promoting this to others, but you need to realize that just by posting your personal experience, others may read it and try to follow it.   

I know you are going to continue with this regimen.  Do I understand correctly that you will not also continue seeing your doctors or at least have regular labs?  That would at least provide some evidence that your bananas and garlic are (or are not) working.  If you do think you don't need medical monitoring, then you are in denial.

Lastly -- are you saying that your restored your physique and your moobs disappeared simply by stopping your HIV meds, and eating bananas and garlic?  No other physical exercise or dietary changes?  Which HIV meds had you been taking?

Buckmark,

To answer your question about lab work, yes I considered Mecch's advice and have decided to get regular lab work done.

Concerning my meds, I was on Truvada and Kaletra. There are several articles online about Truvada and how it causes abnormal  fat distribution in the body known as "lipodystrophy". Here is one such link:

http://www.aidsmeds.com/archive/Truvada_1584.shtml

Actually, greater concerns of the long term effects of Truvada and other related HAART meds is that they raise cholesteral levels and can induce stroke or heart attack. Of course, this can vary from person to person.

Also, garlic has had remarkable effects on HIV and viruses do not become immune to it unlike HAART meds over time. Here is a link to a german study:

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/news/health/2011/10/18/1227.html

Another more recent and informative article on the effects of allicin in raw garlic:

http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/what_we_now_know/archive/2006/04/18/the-virus-killer-they-don-t-want-you-to-know-about.aspx

Also, the lectin "BanLec" is a recent discovery and I am actually more interested in Lectin proteins and their effects on pathogens in general.

Lastly, I am not in denial about my condition. I realize the gravity of it. I sincerely thank you all for your concerns and I am NOT suggesting that anyone try undertaking what I am doing. I repeat, I am not attempting to influence or coerce anyone into trying alternative/holistic remedies.

Thank you, peace out, Sean.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:10:25 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline Almost2late

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2014, 11:07:29 am »
I will definitely be eating plenty of garlic and bananas with my hiv meds ;)
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Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2014, 11:15:17 am »
I will definitely be eating plenty of garlic and bananas with my hiv meds ;)

Well, hopefully you are not taking Saquinavir, as there are some claims that garlic can impede it's effectiveness.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:18:59 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline leatherman

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2014, 11:16:33 am »
There are several articles online about Truvada and how it causes abnormal  fat distribution in the body known as "lipodystrophy".
less than 7% of truvada users report this side effect.  Kaletra users report a 2.2% percent rate of lipo. Maybe a change of perspective could help you think you might be in the 93+% of users who aren't affected by any lipo from these meds.  ;) (disclaimer: I've been on truvada for nearly a decade with ZERO side effects except the one where it keeps my HIV suppressed.)

of course 1000s of people die every year from aspirin so I hope you don't ever take any nsaids either. ;)
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Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2014, 11:22:01 am »
less than 7% of truvada users report this side effect.  Kaletra users report a 2.2% percent rate of lipo. Maybe a change of perspective could help you think you might be in the 93+% of users who aren't affected by any lipo from these meds.  ;) (disclaimer: I've been on truvada for nearly a decade with ZERO side effects except the one where it keeps my HIV suppressed.)

of course 1000s of people die every year from aspirin so I hope you don't ever take any nsaids either. ;)

Precisely leatherman, which is why I stated that it can vary from person to person. But keep in mind that the long term effects of any HAART meds are still unknown.

Concerning aspirin, you may want to reach for it in an emergency with sudden chest pain, but like you, I wouldn't suggest taking it on a regular basis. It really comes down to diet and prevention.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:27:00 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline leatherman

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2014, 11:28:33 am »
But keep in mind that the long term effects of any HAART meds are still unknown.
trust me, I know. I've been on meds for about 25 yrs and, after just celebrating 31 yrs poz and still alive, I'm healthier than I've ever been. I would have never imagined when I was in the hospital decades ago, almost dying of AIDS, that they would develop meds that would help me regain this much health. Those unknown long term effects have been very good to me. ;)
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Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2014, 11:48:15 am »
The OP is is just plain wrong and misinformed … we all know that if you have HIV and you need treatment the only thing that will save your life is HAART therapy . This is an undisputed fact.

Sean . You have expressed your views in this thread so I am going to ask you to keep them in this one thread, meaning do not start or go into another thread and tell people you can eat your way back to health if you have HIV … if you do this you will be banned .

We are pretty tolarant around here but one of the cornerstones of the forum is about effective treatments and prevention and we will not tolerate inaccurate information to be dispensed from this forum . If you have come here for support then we will be there for you but if your purpose in joining us here is to spread the message you’re spouting in this thread you have come to the wrong place my friend … it will not happen .

Hi Jeff,

I wasn't planning on starting any new threads. I am not on a campaign to convince anyone of anything. I am just sharing knowledge. I am certainly glad however, that you are tolerant. After all, free speech is a first ammendment right, at least in the U.S. anyway.

If I may, allow me to propose an extreme case scenario that is not completely out of the realm of possibilty;

Suppose that for whatever reasons, and there are many, that we were to lose our access to HAART meds? Would people not then want to have the latest breaking information on alternative medicine? In other words, I think that it is important to have an open mind about this and at least keep up on recent holistic research as a possible back-up plan.

What do you think?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:51:24 am by Sean Castleton »

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2014, 01:08:46 pm »
Hi Jeff,

I wasn't planning on starting any new threads. I am not on a campaign to convince anyone of anything. I am just sharing knowledge. I am certainly glad however, that you are tolerant. After all, free speech is a first ammendment right, at least in the U.S. anyway.

If I may, allow me to propose an extreme case scenario that is not completely out of the realm of possibilty;

Suppose that for whatever reasons, and there are many, that we were to lose our access to HAART meds? Would people not then want to have the latest breaking information on alternative medicine? In other words, I think that it is important to have an open mind about this and at least keep up on recent holistic research as a possible back-up plan.

What do you think?

Thanks.

You free speech rights do not apply in this forum, there are more than a few things you could say that will get you tossed .

There are no alternative therapies that have any positive impact on the outcome of HIV . If a person does not have access to HAART and needs it they will die .
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2014, 01:23:39 pm »
This is for anyone who is in denial about HIV and how to survive it . We lost a misguided member to HIV who could have been saved … this is partly why we do what we do, this is the sad story of Emery Taylor . 
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=36980.0
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Offline Dan0

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2014, 01:35:01 pm »

(disclaimer: I've been on truvada for nearly a decade with ZERO side effects except the one where it keeps my HIV suppressed.)


^^TRUTH

I get that the nausea, dizziness or fat re-distribution may not be some folk's cup up tea but the above is the best one-line I've read in days. And, really, why SHOULD someone suffer through some side-effects, whether they be a mild irritant or a life-style altering debilitation?  Thankfully, there are choices to be had with more choices coming down the pike!  Yes, I've switched meds to get away from the bad side-effects of the one, but never lost sight of the good side-effects of both.  Pills keep me alive and I KNOW that they keep me alive  - period. 


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Offline leatherman

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2014, 02:22:03 pm »
which is why I stated that it can vary from person to person.
listen, I'm NO gambler.  ;) I stay away from the edge of the cliff and always take the safe road. While you are certainly right in saying that it can vary from person-2-person, I'm a realist and will gladly take those 93+% odds any day of the week. ;D

After all, free speech is a first ammendment right, at least in the U.S. anyway.
the idea of free speech in America does not mean that any speech is allowed. You cannot libel, slander, incite riots , yell "fire" in a theater or "hijack" on a plane, or speak treason without suffering the consequences. Hate speech is disallowed just as is misrepresentation of a product. And while someone people are allowed to say some rather crazy stuff, that doesn't mean that someone else won't come along to contradict that crazy stuff. 

In other words, I think that it is important to have an open mind about this and at least keep up on recent holistic research as a possible back-up plan.
while your alternatives may have beneficial properties, none of the things you have discussed get anywhere near close enough to viral suppression to stop HIV from progressing to AIDS. Only antiretrovirals accomplish that. Having seen my friends without ARVs die, and having been one of the many to actually overcome AIDS thanks to the ARVs, there are no alternatives, no back-up plan in your words, to continue living when infected with HIV and not die an early AIDS death.

Suppose that for whatever reasons, and there are many, that we were to lose our access to HAART meds?
not everyone has access now! :O

and every though you didn't ask me specifically, I'll tell you what I would do. I'd continue doing the advocacy and activist work that I've been doing for about 3 decades to make sure everyone has access to the only thing that does anything to suppress HIV - antiretrovirals. Give "How to Survive a Plague" a watch. You'll see exactly what people do when they are dying or don't have access to HAART. ..... and they don't turn to garlic or back-ups plan. They make things change! ;)
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Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2014, 03:22:32 pm »
Suppose that for whatever reasons, and there are many, that we were to lose our access to HAART meds? Would people not then want to have the latest breaking information on alternative medicine? In other words, I think that it is important to have an open mind about this and at least keep up on recent holistic research as a possible back-up plan.

What do you think?

Thanks.

Eek god you are naive.  How many tens of thousands dead in South Africa because of LACK OF ACCESS to available lifesaving tri-therapy. 

Loose access to meds - then you fight to get them back because otherwise you die.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_South_Africa#AIDS_denialism_in_South_Africa
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Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2014, 11:51:54 am »
Hi Guys,

Some lastest breaking info on the effects of the herb "Astragalus" against HIV, and a possible replacement for HAART meds.

Link: http://www.naturalnews.com/024799_hiv_astragalus_aids.html#

Best regards, Sean.  :)

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2014, 12:09:59 pm »
Barbara, please -- an article from 2008? I'd think they would have figured out by now if it actually works.
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Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2014, 12:23:15 pm »


astragalus has been known on this forum for years, warning to all considering this, check interactions with any meds you may be taking. and the jury is still out on the safety of taking it with haart meds. DO NOT STOP TAKING YOUR MEDS


man just think, if that shit works out, it would work great in the vertigrow hydroponic systems i used to play with

i'm gonna be a millionaire, i knew gardening would pay off one day
 ;D ;D
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 12:40:06 pm by zach »

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2014, 12:43:59 pm »
I'm tempted to just remove Sean's post that link to junk science and keep him as a member so we can offer support when he gets sick but so far what he is offering is easy to ignore its so ridiculous . I personally think its obvious that he is here to be provocative and push an agenda and not here seeking support . I also think that many people do get taken in by  snake oil salesman so threads like this are a good reminder to new members and many of the others that come here to read and learn that they must beware .

I have to remind myself that what seems silly or absurd to me is something real to the gullible or people looking for an easy way out, if not for that I would file this whole thread under whatever and move on without a comment .     
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2014, 01:00:45 pm »
Going on thirty years with da AIDS and I have heard of and tried a variety of "natural" and not so natural remedies to cure or contain God's punishment. Believe me when you're actually faced with a prognosis of an imminent, ghastly death drinking goat-dung tea doesn't sound so bad. I won't give you the blah, blah, blah, but you're stuck with being big pharma's bitch.

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2014, 01:21:02 pm »
Let's just stay away from this rabbit hole shall we? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YtH2rjrfaI 


Monkey see, monkey do - I don't know why.
Rather be dead than cool - I don't know why.
Every line is a rhyme - I don't know why.
Less is more, love is blind - I don't know why.

Stay, stay away.
Stay away,
Stay away.

Give an inch, take a mile - I don't know why.
Fashion shits, fashion styles - I don't know why.
Throw it out and keep it in - I don't know why.
Have to have poison skin - I don't know why.

Stay, stay away.
Stay away,
Stay away.
I don't know why, I don't know why.

Stay, stay away.
Stay away,
Stay away.

Monkey see, monkey do - I don't know why.
Rather be dead than cool - I don't know why.
Every line ends in rhyme - I don't know why.
Less is more, love is blind - I don't know why.

Stay, stay away.
Stay away,
Stay away.
I don't know why, I don't know why.

Stay, stay away.
Stay away, stay away.
Stay away, stay away.
Stay away, stay away.
Stay away, God is gay.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 01:25:26 pm by mecch »
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2014, 01:22:26 pm »
This thread is very unhealthy to have on these forums if one considers how many "guests" there are that read these boards but do not participate.

Balancing the interests of one person against hundreds well... I know which side I come down on.
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Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2014, 01:25:51 pm »
ditto
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ptrk3

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2014, 01:36:54 pm »
On the other hand, I would be very careful to quash any discussion like this, in  order to get to the ultimate truth of the matter.  As Milton pointed out in his seminal essay against the licensing of the press, the Areopagitica, all ideas should be expressed, no matter how noxious, in order that they are within the "marketplace of ideas," where the poor products (i.e., bad ideas) would not sell.  It is far more dangerous, methinks, to hide these ideas.

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/areopagitica/text.shtml

Don't get me wrong.  I do not believe that there is a natural cure or treatment for HIV/AIDS.  If there were, there would be no HIV/AIDS left.  We are all Big Pharma's bitches, now, to be sure, but let newbies use their critical thinking skills to shop the marketplace of ideas and find this truth out.  A truth learned on one's own is better than a truth taught.

However, the LTS's here and those of us with the critical thinking skills to look at all the evidence, can guide the newbies to the ineffable truth:  take your ART's and you will live!  Take only herbs and spices and you will die (but you might taste good to the grave worms).  The truth shall set you free and keep you well.

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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2014, 01:40:30 pm »
Miss P and Mecch, you guys are doing a great job telling the truth about HIV but maybe someone who is searching for a natural cure will read this and learn that HAART is the only thing that will save your life if you have HIV . I value both your guys opinion so I will ask both of you ... Do you think I should ban this guy from what he has posted so far ? I think its premature .

Also ... another member pointed out to me that by the OP's time line he was 11 years old when infected ... I have not read back to check it out yet but we shall see .
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 01:42:32 pm by Jeff G »
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Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2014, 01:47:33 pm »
thread has over 1000 hits... think about that

sorry jeff, premature passed hundreds of hits ago

edited... profile says he's 33, his posts say he tested positive in '92... when he had an apartment, partying with friends

how long does this play?

« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 01:55:26 pm by zach »

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2014, 01:53:38 pm »
The OP has not broken any rules on this forum ... not a single one . Whats to keep me from banning one of you guys if I disagree with what you are saying ... I hear you guys and am aware my decision so far is not a popular one but I do take banning a member or deleting threads very seriously . I may be wrong but this is how I see as of now .
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Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2014, 01:56:47 pm »
ok, i'll back down

 :-X

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2014, 02:25:38 pm »
Hi All,

It's good to leave room here for unpopular opinions (except when they disagree with me. smile)

I'm totally with Jeff on this. Let's save ammunion for the real enemies of which there are far too many.

Best to all at the end of the holiday weekend.
xo
Andy
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Offline Ptrk3

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2014, 02:32:11 pm »
Zach:  don't back down (unless you mean with the business on "banning" a poster).

Keep on calling "bullshit" on a misleading post and state your reasons (which you have).  That's the Miltonic way of dealing with bad ideas, refute them in order that those ideas are soundly rejected.

One of the most valuable things about a forum like this is the no-holds barred and open discussion of things:  that is when truth emerges.  Nothing or no one should be banned, except those who write things contrary to public policy (racial or sexual slur, for example) or violate civil decorum (just plain "jerks" who are rude and/or clearly dishonest about his or her participation in the forum, such as people posing as HIV positives or trolls extolling the virtue of Dr.  Chimychanga and his HIV-healing totem that will cure you for $5:  those people should be banned because they shed no light on a serious matter).

Keep up the good work, moderators!  And keep up the robust discussion of ideas, even if unpopular.
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Offline drewm

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2014, 03:26:30 pm »
H A A R T

Sean's crap does not add up. Goodbye.
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

TRIUMEQ - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE - PRAVASTATIN - CIALIS


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline mitch777

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2014, 03:56:40 pm »


Also ... another member pointed out to me that by the OP's time line he was 11 years old when infected ... I have not read back to check it out yet but we shall see .

The OP's Reply #10 states that he was diagnosed in 1992. His age listed on his profile says he is 33. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but...

Anyway, I was wondering if he ever became UD while on meds. My guess is that if he did, he ain't no more.

Couldn't agree more with all of the advice already given.
33 years hiv+ with a curtsy.

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2014, 06:10:09 pm »
just when i thought i was out, they pulled me back in

for the record... i don't want anyone banned, i spent long enough as a carpenter to have learned; when you are the hammer, everything is a nail

i think enough trusted members have spoke out, our voice has been heard

if somebody wants to do some chinese herb, dafuq do i care... who am i to judge, i smoke an ounce a week. and i know what that flower is, i used to grow it, i knew it was used in medicinal tea.. admittedly never heard anything about it being used for hiv. first thing i did was research, and yeah i found some threads here on poz from years ago, even a member that is still around saying they've used it to good effect. maybe they still do, i notice that user hasn't chimed in. i'll respect that and leave him out of this

the rest of what i'd say violates the rules around here
 
freedom of speech, something i learned from another family i'm part of

it takes all colors to make a rainbow

the mods have spoken, even andy came down on it... i'm just some dude with teh aids
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 06:20:20 pm by zach »

Offline bocker3

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2014, 10:44:49 pm »
But keep in mind that the long term effects of any HAART meds are still unknown.

Well, the "long term effect" of not taking HAART, when poz is WELL KNOWN.  DEATH in the vast majority of cases -- and a horrible, agonizing one to boot.

Perhaps, some day, my HAART will cause me to die of a heart attack - however, I'd have probably died long ago without it, so -- I'll take my chances.

BTW -- 9 years on HAART -- my cholesterol is the best it's been in my life (and I have a long family history of high cholesterol and have been on statins for close to 20 years).

Every "argument" you've given is sheer, unmitigated bullshit.  If food could fight HIV, we would all know it and millions would not have died from this virus.  Clearly, you are simply naive or, far more likely, a full of shit troll who isn't HIV+ but are somehow involved in some business looking to make money from this insanity.

I hold our moderators in the highest regard -- but I do wish they would piece your story and timeline together and realize that this simply can not be a real HIV positive person. 

There are too many frightened and desperate people reading these forums.  Some WILL TAKE THIS GARBAGE AS REAL, stick their heads in the sand and get very sick or die because of it.

On the other hand, I would be very careful to quash any discussion like this, in  order to get to the ultimate truth of the matter.  As Milton pointed out in his seminal essay against the licensing of the press, the Areopagitica, all ideas should be expressed, no matter how noxious, in order that they are within the "marketplace of ideas," where the poor products (i.e., bad ideas) would not sell.  It is far more dangerous, methinks, to hide these ideas.

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/areopagitica/text.shtml

Don't get me wrong.  I do not believe that there is a natural cure or treatment for HIV/AIDS.  If there were, there would be no HIV/AIDS left.  We are all Big Pharma's bitches, now, to be sure, but let newbies use their critical thinking skills to shop the marketplace of ideas and find this truth out.  A truth learned on one's own is better than a truth taught.

However, the LTS's here and those of us with the critical thinking skills to look at all the evidence, can guide the newbies to the ineffable truth:  take your ART's and you will live!  Take only herbs and spices and you will die (but you might taste good to the grave worms).  The truth shall set you free and keep you well.

Sorry -- Milton's logic holds little water for me when the "truth learned" may be DEATH.  Sometimes it is good to let folks trip over a curb, but we should grab them when they approach a cliff!

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2015 969/28% <20

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2014, 11:05:42 pm »
Well, the "long term effect" of not taking HAART, when poz is WELL KNOWN.  DEATH in the vast majority of cases -- and a horrible, agonizing one to boot.

Perhaps, some day, my HAART will cause me to die of a heart attack - however, I'd have probably died long ago without it, so -- I'll take my chances.

BTW -- 9 years on HAART -- my cholesterol is the best it's been in my life (and I have a long family history of high cholesterol and have been on statins for close to 20 years).

Every "argument" you've given is sheer, unmitigated bullshit.  If food could fight HIV, we would all know it and millions would not have died from this virus.  Clearly, you are simply naive or, far more likely, a full of shit troll who isn't HIV+ but are somehow involved in some business looking to make money from this insanity.

I hold our moderators in the highest regard -- but I do wish they would piece your story and timeline together and realize that this simply can not be a real HIV positive person. 

There are too many frightened and desperate people reading these forums.  Some WILL TAKE THIS GARBAGE AS REAL, stick their heads in the sand and get very sick or die because of it.

Sorry -- Milton's logic holds little water for me when the "truth learned" may be DEATH.  Sometimes it is good to let folks trip over a curb, but we should grab them when they approach a cliff!

Mike

You have earned yourself a warning for flame bait and name calling . Please do not post in this thread again .
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Offline BubbaPat

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2014, 05:54:00 pm »
Okay…
So I'm jumping in here as a hopeful of more holistic attitude about HIV and for the record…. I know it's not a replacement therapy.

In the end…no matter WHAT illness you have, it's all about healthy combinations.  Good sleep, exercise, social activity and diet.

I think Sean that yes…for YOUR body, you may have hit on something that will HELP, not replace the pharmaceuticals.

I saw on the news the other day how a few hospitals have started offering services to look at a person from something other than a lab report.  They will be looking at your health as a whole.  Activity, diet, medications… everything.

So Jeff… I for one am glad you didn't take down the thread.  It made for some very interesting and entertaining reading.  I think, sadly, it also showed how some people can type something and it doesn't come across with the same jovial or sarcastic whit they had intended but came across simply mean.

Thanks for the entertainment and info (yes..some of which is either out of date or inaccurate.)

Plus…. why not add some garlic and bananas into a diet.

Bubba hugs all around…even to the 'not so nice' folks.
hugs!

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2014, 06:03:39 pm »
But. You ARE, Blanche, you are in that chair!
And the OP DID stop HAART to try bananas and garlic.  And this is not what a hospital has in mind when stepping up to treat a hole person, not a lab report.

I had an osteopath treat the whole me in the 80s and it was great.  Premo health plan in those years, everything and anything, covered.  Those were the days, in the USA. Wasn't HIV+.

I changed my ID a few years ago when my first HIV ID didn't treat the whole me.  My new one is very sophisticated and comprehensive.

Getting an MD to treat you as a complete person is nothing new.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mitch777

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2014, 07:47:51 pm »
Mecch, Bubba clearly stated that this was not a wise idea of the OP to stop his meds.

I agree with Bubba that this thread should not be shut down, at least for now, as it has been ONE against ALL on the topic. It becomes a learning tool. Anyone that would read this thread would see the futility of the OP's faulty thinking.

I only hope he eventually does if he is for real.

Getting back to the age of infection thing... what doctor would check for STD's from an 11 year old just because he had a boil on his neck? It doesn't make any sense to me.
33 years hiv+ with a curtsy.

Offline BubbaPat

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2014, 04:25:38 am »
THANK YOU mitch777!!!

It's nice when someone pays attention to what I've 'said' and not what they THINK I 'said'.

You don't realize how happy you just made me. It's been a rough day and that helped make it a bit better.

:)
BIG BUBBA HUGS!!
hugs!

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2014, 04:58:53 am »
I didnt suggest locking the thread.
I was extending the discussion about treating the whole person. In my life, I have followed other treatments in addition to "western med and its big pharma" and have been content with some of them.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline greenapple23

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2014, 08:04:41 am »
I think some people get the feeling that just because you are poz you can just take your daily Altripla and still smoke, drink alcohol, do drugs & party and still live a long and healthy life.... NO..... YOU MIGHT DIE FASTER THAN A POZ WHO IS ON MEDS but who  EATS FRUITS AND VEGETABLES, GETS A GOOD NIGHT SLEEP, DRINK WATER, STAYS AWAY FROM EXCESS SUGAR , DOESNT DRINK ALCOHOL OR DO DRUGS, WHO EXERCISES, & TAKES A DAILY SUPPLEMENT.

This is also true for HIV negative people. The ones who live a hard life still end up dieing early than their counterparts who take good care of themselves. Its knowned that eating the right diet ,exercise , drinking water, good sleep leads to good health and a strong immune system. so i will definitely be incorporating some hollistic approach with my ARV to live long and healthy.

http://www.hivplusmag.com/just-diagnosed/2014/03/07/15-ways-live-be-100-when-you-have-hiv?page=full

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2014, 08:33:25 am »
Yep, I guess you could do all that and maybe live a nice, long, life. Maybe, maybe, not. Do that without meds and it's a big, fat, not!

Offline Almost2late

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2014, 08:37:24 am »
thread has over 1000 hits... think about that

sorry jeff, premature passed hundreds of hits ago

edited... profile says he's 33, his posts say he tested positive in '92... when he had an apartment, partying with friends

how long does this play?

So this guy is probably an imposter and yet his thread has over 1000 hits... And yeah, your suppose to eat healthy, Duh who doesn't know that?... I guess it has entertainment value
"Hang on to your hopes my friend..
thats an easy thing to say,
but if your hope should pass away,
simply pretend that you could build them again"...

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2014, 04:48:38 pm »
I think some people get the feeling that just because you are poz you can just take your daily Altripla and still smoke, drink alcohol, do drugs & party and still live a long and healthy life.... NO..... YOU MIGHT DIE FASTER THAN A POZ WHO IS ON MEDS but who  EATS FRUITS AND VEGETABLES, GETS A GOOD NIGHT SLEEP, DRINK WATER, STAYS AWAY FROM EXCESS SUGAR , DOESNT DRINK ALCOHOL OR DO DRUGS, WHO EXERCISES, & TAKES A DAILY SUPPLEMENT.

This is also true for HIV negative people. The ones who live a hard life still end up dieing early than their counterparts who take good care of themselves. Its knowned that eating the right diet ,exercise , drinking water, good sleep leads to good health and a strong immune system. so i will definitely be incorporating some hollistic approach with my ARV to live long and healthy.

http://www.hivplusmag.com/just-diagnosed/2014/03/07/15-ways-live-be-100-when-you-have-hiv?page=full

Sweetie, haven't you heard? Everything in moderation, including moderation. 
Life sans sugar, delicious animal fat now that you mention it, party drugs and alcohol.  Well OK if its necessary for conditions like diabetes but there are ways to go on enjoying some of life pleasures until a ripe old age. 

May I just add I know a fair number of very hard living people, personally, friends, who have made it past 70. 

And there are famous examples:

http://mybandnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Kieth-Richards.jpeg

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2014, 12:32:10 pm »
I'm tempted to just remove Sean's post that link to junk science and keep him as a member so we can offer support when he gets sick but so far what he is offering is easy to ignore its so ridiculous . I personally think its obvious that he is here to be provocative and push an agenda and not here seeking support . I also think that many people do get taken in by  snake oil salesman so threads like this are a good reminder to new members and many of the others that come here to read and learn that they must beware .

I have to remind myself that what seems silly or absurd to me is something real to the gullible or people looking for an easy way out, if not for that I would file this whole thread under whatever and move on without a comment .   

Hi Jeff,

Five months and counting as of today and healthier than ever on holistic medicines. I went in for lab work Monday and will get back to you with the results soon.

Take care, Sean.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2014, 12:35:44 pm »
Hi Jeff,

Five months and counting as of today and healthier than ever on holistic medicines. I went in for lab work Monday and will get back to you with the results soon.

Take care, Sean.


You are not being truthful . Only HARRT will save you life if you have HIV .

I think most will agree I have been more than fair with you up till now and was waiting for you to come back and clear a few things up  . Please address the discrepancy in your story about a bottom boy of 11 with boil on his head was diagnosed with HIV, its not adding up  ... You are here making impossible claims and we will not allow that so come back and address this or I see no reason to waste another moment of the forums time on you .
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 01:05:22 pm by Jeff G »
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Offline Sean Castleton

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2014, 11:13:28 am »
thread has over 1000 hits... think about that

sorry jeff, premature passed hundreds of hits ago

edited... profile says he's 33, his posts say he tested positive in '92... when he had an apartment, partying with friends

how long does this play?

Ah correction, I'm 43 Zach. And besides, I don't see how a person's age has anything to do with their credibility?

Offline Almost2late

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2014, 11:25:41 am »
Ah correction, I'm 43 Zach. And besides, I don't see how a person's age has anything to do with their credibility?
It has plenty to do with credibility.. As zach stated your profile says your 33, that would mean you were infected when you were 11 and living on your own.. There are some silly people who like to pretend they're poz and disrupt the forum with BS.. It's not illogical for us to suspect that you may be one of them.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2014, 11:44:39 am »
It's obvious his profile was a typo, because in an actual post he did previously state he was 43.
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Offline buginme2

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2014, 12:21:23 pm »
Why the hate?  This guy didn't tell anyone to stop taking their meds. 

My take.

1.  Natural components can compliment your hiv therapy. 

2.  I personally believe exercise is key.

3.  There is a difference between age related conditions such as heart disease, diabetes, cancer which benefit from natural remedies and exercise than infectious diseases.  All the bananas and garlic won't kill a raging infection.  That's common sense.

4.  Find a program that you like and are comfortable with and get your medical team on board.  For me, I workout daily,I eat healthy, I don't take any supplements, I take my hiv meds, I work with a therapist for my mind and spirit, smoke the occasional joint for my mind body and spirit.

5.  Live right, exercise, laugh, be happy, take your meds, eat right, have a lot of sex, enjoy yourself.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 12:24:42 pm by buginme2 »
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #75 on: December 06, 2014, 12:26:08 pm »
There is no hate, far from it . People have taken time to remind the OP that there are no natural ways to control HIV because they care and do not wish him to get sick and die.
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Offline Almost2late

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #76 on: December 06, 2014, 03:47:24 pm »
I don't hate Sean, not at all.. I actually find the healthy eating and exercising good advise.. But, I don't believe Sean, so I'll no longer post in this thread to keep peace with other members.. From the old threads..
Heavyweight Champion Tommy Morrison stopped taking his meds..
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=9418.msg115790#msg115790
Heavyweight Champion Tommy Morrison died..
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=50298.msg603808#msg603808
Good luck Sean
"Hang on to your hopes my friend..
thats an easy thing to say,
but if your hope should pass away,
simply pretend that you could build them again"...

Offline ChavinKnight

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #77 on: January 03, 2015, 05:34:00 pm »
I must weigh in here. . . . I am a (blessed and fortunate) converted dissident.  I tested positive anonymously through the mail in the summer many years ago; looking back, what I thought was a horrible reaction to multiple vaccines was seroconversion.  I must have been infected sometime in February of that year.  I remember hanging up the phone, looking out the window of my garden apartment in a large city, the rain pouring down in sheets, and thinking to myself "the only thing that is different is now you know."  I was waiting for a car service to take me to the airport.  I went on with my life.

I refused to believe that HIV was harmful, but I began seeking something.  It was a turning point in my life and coincided with the beginning of my spiritual awakening.  A massive awakening to be sure.  I worked with multiple shamans, with and without plant medicines.  I began taking acupuncture and all sorts of rainforest herbs and Chinese medicine.  I went to sweat lodge ceremonies.  I did not go to a doctor until two years after I learned that I was positive, and only because I heard the "instruction" from a casual hook-up.  He was the conduit for a communication that I needed to hear.

I told the doctor up front that I did not want any of his treatment; I only wanted him to monitor me and keep me comfortable if it came to that.  He was very angry and said that if my t-cells dropped below 300, I could get deathly sick overnight, I would wind up in the hospital, and I would die a slow and painful death.  He said that if I wanted to do this, there was nothing that he could do to stop me, but that I needed to know what would happen to me.  He then said that I needed to "get over" my fear of medication, left the room, and slammed the door.

When I returned for results (this was the first time that I had ever had viral load and cd4 count measured, and was two years after infection), my vl was around 200 copies, not thousand, and my cd4 was above 500.  His perspective was that my body was controlling the virus; my perspective was that prayer and plant medicine and sweat lodge were keeping me healthy.  He said that this was good news and that I did not need treatment now; I said to myself that I can do this, and I continued my treatment.  I told my doctor that I would get my own treatment in line with my beliefs, but that I would count on him to keep checking to be sure that it was working for me.  It never occurred to me that I would go on HAART.  Half the time I was undetectable.  I even experienced an increase in cd4 count of about 150.  My % was almost always in the 30's; I think once it was 29.8.  My doctor and I argued about why this was happening; I said that it was alternative medicine.  He said that it was genetic and that I had ancestors who survived the plague.  Now I say can say that it was/is both.  I only had a viral load of 120 when I started treatment, and a cd4 count of 585, after 9 years of no treatment and no illness.  I went undetectable in 4 weeks on HAART.  Incidentally, I discontinued alternative treatment for over a year before starting HAART (for reasons that are not important), and I had a decline of cd4 count of 75 to 100.

Prior to starting treatment, I met my partner.  His doctor felt it wise for us to both be on treatment.  I initially resisted this, but eventually let myself be convinced to accept the treatment, and I have fully adhered to it.  I allowed myself to accept that my partner could be at some sort of risk if I were not undetectable also.  I do not debate this within myself at this point, for it has no relevance.  However, I am clear that I would still not be on treatment if I were not with my partner.  I guess I needed a reason to be on treatment.  Now I understand that I do not want my family and friends to witness me dying an ugly and painful death.  I believe that I have an obligation to spare people that vicarious suffering if I possibly can.  I still believe that if I continued the path that I was on, I would have been able to remain well for many years without HAART.  Is this true, or is it simply my belief?  The true answer is that no one can say; my current doctor is very respectful of my beliefs and said to me that he cannot say either way.  He is the only doctor that I have ever had that has shown me that respect and given an honest and reasonable answer.  All of the others dismissed and denied, and frankly, that is just as unsavory as what the dissidents say.  It also did nothing to foster a collaborative treatment relationship.  People are more likely to adhere to a treatment when they have what they perceive to be a respectful, caring relationship with their physician.

I cannot and will not recommend what I was doing to anyone; I will not speak or in any way otherwise reveal the specifics.  Most people would not have the strength or motivation to endure what I endured.  My first doctor finally accepted my path and told me that he could not condone what I was doing, but that it seemed to be working for me.  It was clear that he did not want to discuss it, and so I respected that by not bringing it up, while still keeping regular appointments and doing what else I could to take care of myself.  That was our seemingly agreed upon compromise that was never really talked about in depth.

I believe that there are ways for people to remain healthy without necessarily jumping into conventional treatment; however, if a person chooses that route, then they still need monitoring and follow-up.  It is not enough to espouse alternative treatment, insist that it is 100% effective and therefore requires no evidence of effectiveness.  One does not get to have it both ways here.  Understand that the time may (most will say "will") come when alternative treatment must be discontinued in favor of standard conventional treatment.

I was silent about my choice for a long time.  I may have had the lack of disease progression that I have had even without my journey into alternative treatment, or I may have sickened and died within that first two years in the absence of it.  Conventional science and medical practice will dismiss me.  Although I accept conventional treatment now, this in no way changes my understanding of my experience of my condition.  I do not accept that it would or could be the same for all people subjected to the same alternative treatment, and I would never suggest that a person discontinue treatment in favor of my (or any other) alternative treatment.

I think that people come looking for reassurance, on both sides.  We do not do ourselves or each other a service by attacking.  Denial comes from overwhelming fear and anxiety.  When you attack the denial, you increase it and that is dangerous.  I am not here to save anyone from themselves.  I respect the right of people to refuse treatment or pursue other treatment.  However, the vast majority of people should be on HAART, and if not on HAART, then they should be in primary care and be monitored regularly.  If they are not ready to accept conventional treatment, then give them space and be patient.  The situation is serious, but it is not an acute emergency, at least (for most people) initially.  We cannot make a person come around by forcing the issue.  On the contrary, doing so is likely to drive a person further away. 

Denial has killed many an alcoholic, drug addict, and smoker, and so, it will also continue to kill many a person with HIV.  Has arguing with or attacking a meth addict ever made them give up their sickness?  I am aware of no case where this is so..... There is a reason that education alone does not make a person give up an addiction.  Whether harmful misinformation is presented here (or anywhere else) by Sean (or anyone else), people who are looking for reasons to deny will find them.  I empathize with the place on the path that Sean and similar countless others are on, primarily because I have been there.  Fortunately, I have had physicians that were willing to dialogue with me, even though we were talking from opposite sides of a river, and fortunately, I was not a rapid or even average progresser.  The question of whether I was an "elite suppressor" was raised; I have to tell you that I found that question/discussion offensive and disrespectful of my spiritual beliefs.

And with all of this said, I am at a loss as to how to help people come around and accept the benefits of HAART.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 05:38:16 pm by ChavinKnight »

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #78 on: January 03, 2015, 05:56:42 pm »
Sounds to me that you didn't need to be on treatment when you started.

You were following you path and for whatever reason your cd4 was ok and your vl was negligible. Your partner's doctor was wrong to say somehow you being on treatment was necessary for him. Huh? Is this the re-infection intox?  And with all your journeys and wisdom, you fell for that?

In fact, its not beside the point why you went on treatment.  You are obfuscating.

It seems to be that really you believe that treatment is ultimately necessary for you, you alone, to avoid your death from HIV caused illnesses....  Not because your treated partner needed you to be on it.

As you said, plenty of people followed similar journey's as yours. Ones I knew in 80's and 90s who did so, cause there was no hope from medicine, are dead.

Your first doctor was probably correct, you won the genetic crapshoot to be a very slow progressor.    I hear that you don't believe that, but I do, and so just putting that out there to other readers.  That's rational explanation.  Deduced from ALL the millions who died trying other things, and didn't have a strong response to get to the HAART era.



 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 06:00:28 pm by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #79 on: January 03, 2015, 06:11:33 pm »
HIV is a virus.  Its not a metaphor for anything nor is the treatment for HIV about much besides access to medicine (obligatory) and ordinarily "healthy" lifestyle - diet, exercise, emotions, etc.

People get nasty flus riding the wrong public bus on the wrong day. Viruses and bacterias spread - they are not metaphors. We don't get sick with them for nebulous metaphorical or moral reasons.  We get treatment, whenever, wherever possible and move on and make do. That's fucking it.

I am not going to attack this poster rather I am simply putting in my two cents that I think this sort of thinking is self-centered.

Its like the person in the other thread in a sero-discordant relation who just had a child. How wonderful.  A couple that followed SCIENCE down to the last letter, got treatment, had the whole thing monitored, and science said ahead of time this was a perfectly expectable outcome, an HIV negative baby.   So then they thank GOD for the blessing. 

Fine, that's one's right to have beliefs.  But just cover your bases and do what doctors and research says is the best thing to do at the appropriate time.  People make big mysteries out of things that are often cut in dry, in my world view.  At least.

Bless god, thank the shamens, etc etc etc, I am actually for this, but pulease don't anyone go out of their way pursuing labourious or possibly dangerous therapies that have nothing proven to help with doing well with an HIV infection. 

I'm old enough to be offended for the people who died when when there was no effective treatment. 

Most people have a lot of fish to fry. Family obligations, jobs, projects, etc.  Always do the affordable and practicable and proven medical path as a priority.  Geez its hard enough for most of the world to get access to doctors and treatments and THAT is what is OBLIGATORY to fight HIV.  Not shamens and potions and meditation and spiritual journey.  None of that obligatory.   

As my grammy would say, Jesus H. Christ!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 06:20:12 pm by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mitch777

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #80 on: January 03, 2015, 06:27:24 pm »
Great posts Mecch.

What I don't understand is this quote from Chavin:
"The question of whether I was an "elite suppressor" was raised; I have to tell you that I found that question/discussion offensive and disrespectful of my spiritual beliefs."

Why take offense and why is it disrespectful? Faith in your own beliefs doesn't have to disregard science IMHO.

In any case, I'm glad you seem to be able to balance both now, I think?
33 years hiv+ with a curtsy.

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #81 on: January 03, 2015, 07:35:12 pm »
When I was asking the big questions as a young man the physicist Hans Bethe told me that many of his peers (huge brained physicists and scientists) get a tiny bit religious and spiritual in their elder years, covering the bases... So you know, solving the mysteries of life through science for decades, but not opposed in their old age to getting their last rites, just in case....  ;D
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Offline ChavinKnight

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2015, 09:17:47 pm »
Meech,

I don't think that you grasped what I said, and your response to my story is why you will never reach people like Sean, which was the point in the first place.   I am not saying that I will reach him (them) either, but I believe that the odds are a little more in my favor, because I understand the conflict, and I'm curious about his/their thinking.  I respect, even when I may not agree, and I don't try to force fact or evidence or studies down anyone's throat.

Gratitude and humility certainly never hurt anyone, and it is not a case of being grateful and praying and getting last rites "just in case."  I think that tends to fall on deaf ears, precisely because it is lacking in sincerity. 

You say that you won't attack the poster, but his (my) thinking is self-centered.  On the contrary, my view of the world and my decision to go on treatment is/was anything but self-centered.  The hostility and sarcasm in your response is not disguised, and yes, it is an attack.  I never said anything from my past was obligatory for the control of HIV.  As Mitch pointed out, faith in my beliefs does not have to disregard science, but so often science disregards faith, with an unmistakable arrogance.  It is a bit of a double-standard you see, and unfortunately, it is that blindness that I believe is at the root of the final human drama unfolding before us.  The human species is committing collective suicide, and the masses are oblivious to it. 

Your world view has validity, but it is not the only validity, nor is it necessarily the most valid.  That is concrete thinking and a delusion if ever there was one.

I'll leave it at that and wish you well, brother.  May you find peace and may it be with you always.

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #83 on: January 04, 2015, 07:22:53 am »
You said you stopped your holistic treatment to take HAART and did so for your family and your partner. Yes! that was not self-centered!  What i labeled self-centered is your holistic treatment and your view that it kept your HIV infection in check.  That was all self-defined.  You are posting supposedly to give support to the OP Sean, who has decided, in a self-centered world view, to do a very poorly advised treatment interruption to pursue some diet that is going to keep HIV in stasis.  These are self-centered rationales and ways of looking at the world.

We are old timers, been around to see this happen literally before our eyes - dozens of times - our dying loved ones trying all sorts of things and nothing worked and getting very sick and lingering through pain and suffering to die. 

So you both have your self-identified paths - nobody is stopping you - but you aren't particularly courageous - spiritually or however - doing so in this day and age when there is the back up plan - the medicine HAART that works. 

Sean is in a riskier situation than you Chavin...   You started the HAART - your "heart" isn't in it, but its good that you did, because the history of the epidemic proves its the right decision.

Sean's rationale shouldn't be supported.  Sean the person, yes, of course, but we can call out navel-gazing emotionally- or psychologically- based decisions....

You missed the point of my post about Hans Bethe.  The point is, there are highly rational people who spend their careers thinking quite tightly in relation to other highly rational people, scientists, at very high levels and yes, they can have a spirituality. So the point is science can admit some spirituality.  Spirituality alone never ever ever ever ever EVAH saved anyone we know from a progressing HIV infection.  Science did.   

My taking HAART is obligatory and is so aside from or despite whatever evils science is foisting on humanity...   Most of the scientists I know are not arrogant about humanity.  I suspect your beef is probably with capital and capitalists and I wholeheartedly agree, but we got to bring home the bacon, right?  I am thankful for the gifts science brings me (as leatherman explains above - yes there are plenty of us who are grateful when we take our "big-pharma" pills), and do my little bit against science going wrong. (?) Hans Bethe fought long and hard against nuclear weapon proliferation, you know.   And we make our compromises with capitalism, but try not participate too much in its excesses... 

« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 07:32:30 am by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #84 on: January 04, 2015, 08:58:13 am »
2772 views

no good will ever come from this thread

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #85 on: January 04, 2015, 09:41:08 am »
My opinion is that the good take away is that HIV+ people with ambiguous relationships to being HIV+ or its treatment, keep in mind to always stay in observation with MDs.  Doctors. 
I am glad Sean has decided to keep seeing docs and getting labs during this treatment interruption.
Its good that Chavin met that person who told him to pull his head out of the sand, 2 years after diagnosis, and go see a doctor. 
We can all have our spirituality and I for one very much support all sort of "alternative" health practices - when they are affordable and do no harm, for sure.
Whats not helpful is kinda sorta saying that sweat lodges and shamanistic work keeps an HIV infection from progressing, or that banana peptides or whatever are going to keep a suppressed viral load from waking up. 
Finally what is important is that people realise that self-experimentation and self-evaluation can sometimes be helpful but also can be disastrous, we need experts and investigation of whats going on by experts.  We have effective treatment available and while we can look the gift horse in the mouth, let's not refuse the gift as its going to take us further in life.

I bothered posting in this thread out of memory for all the people who didn't have the historical timing to get HAART, or lived in denialist cultures or with denialist mentalities and were murdered by politicians and charlatans.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2015, 09:58:42 am »
Just while mecch was posting I had to ban a spammer and delete 4 post that was posted all in less than a minute . The person was spamming for a fake HIV cures and make no mistake there are people out there who will buy them and be harmed by them . I am happy and unapologetic that we are one bright spot on the internet where you can go and get simple, easy to understand information on how to survive HIV. I struggled with what to do when people objected to this thread but I was convinced it has great value and still feel the same way .

Every time someone resurrects this thread it's another opportunity to remind people that snake oil is sold by snakes .   
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Offline Lorenzopier

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #87 on: January 20, 2015, 01:37:06 am »
Hello Seth i too have pursued the road that you are on and have spent in the range of $15,000 over a ten year period in the pursuit of delaying disease progression naturally, however the results proved to be a bust in this context. Although there only appears to be two documented studies showing a very small delay in cd4 progression through use of nutraceuticals, basically they amounted to being clinically insignificant. The advice that many of the members here are sharing is very valuable because some of them have been down this road as well. Although i will always be heavily involved with the use of them to counter some of the negative imbalances produced as a result of being poz for 23 years. I also use them to counter most of the side effects that i personally get from being on HAART. I use them to counter the following conditions due to hiv or HAART: neurocognitive decline, high cholesterol, small intestine decline, weight loss, depression, decreased appetite, lowered libido, hiv inflammation, eczema, bone loss, fatigue. There are many well documented studies that have scientifically shown that the nutraceuticals can be beneficial for these conditions and they provide me a better quality of life by controlling these conditions.   
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 02:06:50 am by Lorenzopier »

Offline NY2011

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #88 on: January 21, 2015, 01:29:15 am »
what about a regimen that includes your bananas along with meds? you can also do something like water with fresh lemon, cayenne pepper, turmeric and raw honey every morning to cleanse the liver.  perhaps even a heavy vitamin D supplement to ward off cancer.  and lots of vegetables. and a cup of blueberries each day.  watermelon and figs to keep the body alkaline.  brazil nuts for selenium.  i can go on and on, but the point I'm making is that you should DEFINITELY keep eating a healthy diet, and should take advantage of life saving meds with the advice of doctors. 

one more thing: beans cause inflammation so I'd cut that out of your diet.  inflammation is likely the culprit of many health problems.
10/26/2011 - SEROCONVERSION (fever+rash, 104 degrees F)
10/31/2011 - CD4= 154  VL>500,000 
10/31/2011 - started on Truvada+Prezista+Norvir
12/14/2011 - CD4= 750 VL=6412 (45%)
01/27/2012 - switched to Atripla
04/23/2012 - CD4=1,221 VL= 140  (47%)
06/22/2012 - CD4=1,224 VL= ud    (49%)
12/18/2012 - CD4=1,031 VL= ud    (51%)
09/16/2013 - CD4=1,151 VL= ud   (49%)
03/26/2014 - CD4=1,050 VL= ud
11/25/2014 - CD4=1,335 VL= ud
12/01/2015 - CD4=1,115 VL= ud (55%)
11/22/2016 - CD4=1,071 VL= ud (52%)
06/01/2017 - CD4=1,014 VL= ud (53%)
switched to Biktarvy in 2018
04/23/2019 - CD4=1,072 VL= ud (52%)

Offline Lorenzopier

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #89 on: January 29, 2015, 03:52:26 am »
For individuals who for whatever reason cannot access AVR or HAART this study suggests a very slight delay in disease progression.
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/20131126/multivitamins-may-help-fight-hiv-progression-study-suggests
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 04:02:36 am by Lorenzopier »

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #90 on: January 29, 2015, 04:03:50 am »
For individuals who for whatever reason cannot access AVR OR HAART this study suggests a very slight delay in disease progression.
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/20131126/multivitamins-may-help-fight-hiv-progression-study-suggests

Sure I would take the vitamins if that was the only thing available.  You do realise how very sad and enraging such a situation is and how very cynical and possibly dangerous is such research.

Humans need good food and humans need access to life-savig medicine. There is or could easily be enough good food and enough life-saving medicine for everyone on this planet. If there isn't enough of either, its due to failed government, war, and unequal distribution of wealth and power.  So its a bit revolting to offer a multi-vitamen in place of what should be a human right, and its morally murky to research the efficacy of such stop-gap measures.

my opinion.
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Offline Lorenzopier

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #91 on: January 29, 2015, 04:43:27 am »
Still, "it is incredibly useful to find new strategies to delay the progression of HIV disease," said Dr. Jared Baeten, an associate professor of global health at the University of Washington in Seattle who's familiar with the findings. "Not every HIV-infected person is immediately willing, or able, to initiate anti-retroviral therapy. Inexpensive, proven treatments ahead of starting anti-retroviral therapy can fill an important role."

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #92 on: January 29, 2015, 07:04:48 am »
I stand by my opinion that its morally murky for first world institutions to do such research. My opinion is based on being a socialist who sees marx's theories still offering valuable lessons and directions for governing.
Sure its useful to know a multivitamin has a minor (pitiful IMO), very minor, delaying effect. But the history of treating HIV in Africa is filled with horror stories, and to THIS DAY, of populations denied access to what they really need. Just last year or in a very recent year there was an african posting here who was sent away from her health service with vitamins and the false hope that vitamins were therapeutic. The woman needed HART, damned it!  Not a vitamin.
Im just saying, duh.  A vitamin helps a malnourished person.  Who really needs MEDICINE.

 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #93 on: January 29, 2015, 07:10:13 am »
"Not every HIV-infected person is immediately willing (1), or able (2), to initiate anti-retroviral therapy. Inexpensive, proven treatments ahead of starting anti-retroviral therapy can fill an important role."

I find this navel-gazing scientific journal boiler-plate, in research for the purpose of maintaining an academic career.

Why aren't they "able"?  Because of power structures in the world resulting in no available meds?

Why aren't they "willing"?  Universities should spend money for social scientists to research why people deny life-threatening illness and/or their treatment, and research how to successfully intervene for better participation in treatment.

My opinion, that's all.

Vitamins. Right. Geez.

My two cents is that all those people in Botswana would be perfectly "willing" to forgo a vitamin and 100% "willing" to take all the recent ART that we have available in Switzerland.

The mind boggles!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 07:13:30 am by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #94 on: January 29, 2015, 07:18:23 am »
By the way, for some imperfect analogies,

http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/NaziMedEx.html

and is studying people on vitamins in Botswana, people who actually NEED ART, all that different than Tuskegee?
http://www.ajol.info/index.php/tp/article/download/74876/65465

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Lorenzopier

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2015, 09:09:43 am »
The Journal of The American Medical Association decided to publish a more detailed account of the study.
http://www.aidsmap.com/Micronutrient-supplements-delay-HIV-disease-progression-for-patients-with-higher-CD4-cell-counts/page/2807699/

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2015, 09:15:57 am »
The Journal of The American Medical Association decided to publish a more detailed account of the study.
http://www.aidsmap.com/Micronutrient-supplements-delay-HIV-disease-progression-for-patients-with-higher-CD4-cell-counts/page/2807699/

One thing that stood out to me from the aidsmap link was this ... Supplementation had no effect on viral load.

I do not think that this study or what it implies is any thing to get excited about ... not at all .
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Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2015, 11:02:23 am »
The Journal of The American Medical Association decided to publish a more detailed account of the study.
http://www.aidsmap.com/Micronutrient-supplements-delay-HIV-disease-progression-for-patients-with-higher-CD4-cell-counts/page/2807699/

And yet that reposting by the AMA does nothing to explain the social responsibility of science.  Those people in Botswana need ART not vitamins.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2015, 11:53:18 am »
it is humane to NOT PROVIDE lifesaving medication to someone, when that medication is available. and instead to give them concoctions of seeds and whatever else in order to study them.

are these people willing participants in this "study" with fully informed consent?

i agree completely with mecch here, there is a social responsibility being ignored. this seems barbaric and like something mengele would have thought up.

i personally, want no benefit from whatever gain such a study realizes. that other get sick and die, so that science can learn from the have nots, to save the haves of the world.

i can't help but see some inherent racism/classism in this.


Offline Lorenzopier

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2015, 09:34:44 pm »
The study protocol was approved by the Florida Interna-
tional University institutional review board (IRB), the Har-
vard School of Public Health IRB, the Botswana Health Re-
search Unit of the National Ministry of Health,and the data and
safety monitoring board (DSMB). Appropriate informed con-
sent was obtained and clinical research was conducted in ac-
cordance with guidelines for human experimentation asspeci-
fied by the US Department of Health and Human Services,the
authors’ institutions, or both. The purpose, procedures, and
potential risks and benefits of the study were explained to the
prospective participants, and written informed consent was obtained.

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #100 on: February 01, 2015, 05:44:42 pm »
Still doesn't clarify if HART was offered to these people.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #101 on: February 01, 2015, 05:57:09 pm »
The study was designed in the early 2000's and carried out 2004, 2009. Which corresponds to the period in which access to HIV treatment was broadened widely in developing nations, with UN funds, USA funds, and even the beginning of private foundation monies.
In 2005, only half of the people who needed HIV treatment in Botswana had access to treatment.
From the late 90s well into the 2000's it was obvious there was effective treatment available in this world but not obvious how poor countries would access it.
If you know about the history of Africa and withholding of access, you will understand how revolting it was to do a study about vitamins, when such information was STILL being used as part of the BOGUS IMMORAL excuse for withholding access to HIV treatment, in many countries.
http://www.avert.org/hiv-aids-botswana.htm#footnote35_nhp2g6s

http://www.avert.org/universal-access-hiv-treatment.htm
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Lorenzopier

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #102 on: February 01, 2015, 09:30:56 pm »
In 2001 free HAART treatment became widely available in Botswana. In 2004 the  WHO recommendation was to offer treatment at 350 CD4 cells/mm³ or less. As a criteria to be eligible for the study all participants had to have cd4 cells at greater than 350 CD4 cells/mm. Even if they had not agreed to participate in the study they still would not have been offered HAART until there CD4 cells had dropped to 350.   

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #103 on: February 01, 2015, 09:42:26 pm »
In 2001 free HAART treatment became widely available in Botswana. In 2004 the  WHO recommendation was to offer treatment at 350 CD4 cells/mm³ or less. As a criteria to be eligible for the study all participants had to have cd4 cells at greater than 350 CD4 cells/mm. Even if they had not agreed to participate in the study they still would not have been offered HAART until there CD4 cells had dropped to 350.   

Why are you arguing so aggressively for this study when it is not significant to the treatment of HIV ? Do you want to give the impression that a bunch of vitamins are going to stave off HIV, because it will not yes, we have to say that loud and clear for those who come here and do not know it … like you . The study found that it had zero effect on the viral load and that makes vitamin therapy ineffective as an HIV treatment .
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Offline Lorenzopier

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #104 on: February 01, 2015, 11:13:12 pm »
I do agree that nutraceuticals are totally ineffective when used as a agent to lower viral load, however for me they are a potently effective tool for controlling the side effects of HAART, which allows me to maintain 100% adherence to my hiv treatment program and as a result i am able to maintain an undetectable viral load. 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 11:35:54 pm by Lorenzopier »

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #105 on: February 02, 2015, 12:05:03 am »
For individuals who for whatever reason cannot access AVR or HAART this study suggests a very slight delay in disease progression.
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/20131126/multivitamins-may-help-fight-hiv-progression-study-suggests

I do agree that nutraceuticals are totally ineffective when used as a agent to lower viral load, however for me they are a potently effective tool for controlling the side effects of HAART, which allows me to maintain 100% adherence to my hiv treatment program and as a result i am able to maintain an undetectable viral load. 

pick a side, you're inconsistent and fence sitting... is it very slight, or totally ineffective?

nutraceuticals? sounds like a juice plus hoax


Offline Lorenzopier

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #106 on: February 02, 2015, 12:22:10 am »
Nutraceuticals appear to have a very slight effect on delaying cd4 decline based upon the study. The study also points out that nutraceuticals are ineffective on hiv viral load.

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #107 on: February 02, 2015, 03:52:24 pm »
I do agree that nutraceuticals are totally ineffective when used as a agent to lower viral load, however for me they are a potently effective tool for controlling the side effects of HAART, which allows me to maintain 100% adherence to my hiv treatment program and as a result i am able to maintain an undetectable viral load.
Fine. Which has nothing to do with the Botswana research. And hopefully in 2015 anyone there who is HIV+ has access to meds when needed and ready. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #108 on: February 02, 2015, 03:53:46 pm »
In 2001 free HAART treatment became widely available in Botswana. In 2004 the  WHO recommendation was to offer treatment at 350 CD4 cells/mm³ or less. As a criteria to be eligible for the study all participants had to have cd4 cells at greater than 350 CD4 cells/mm. Even if they had not agreed to participate in the study they still would not have been offered HAART until there CD4 cells had dropped to 350.
Did you read the articles. It was not in fact available, only 50% of people who needed it then, got it then. Duh.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #109 on: February 03, 2015, 05:33:21 am »
One more reason to avoid supplements.

The authorities said they had conducted tests on top-selling store brands of herbal supplements at four national retailers — GNC, Target, Walgreens and Walmart — and found that four out of five of the products did not contain any of the herbs on their labels. The tests showed that pills labeled medicinal herbs often contained little more than cheap fillers like powdered rice, asparagus and houseplants, and in some cases substances that could be dangerous to those with allergies.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 05:36:02 am by Jeff G »
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Offline BubbaPat

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #110 on: April 03, 2015, 01:07:02 pm »
Loved reading your post ChavinKnight.
hugs!

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #111 on: April 03, 2015, 01:24:22 pm »
agenda much? you started a new thread about twigs and berries, and now you drag this one off the shelf.

where are you going with this?

in your thread i asked you this, and i'll ask again in much more broad terms.

what is your goal?


Offline BubbaPat

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #112 on: April 03, 2015, 02:03:13 pm »
Excuse you?

I said I liked the post.  MY reasons….. that he started out with a holistic only approach but wrote the he realized that wasn't the way to go and is now taking his meds and being aware of his body and mind by exercising and being with friends and family who care AND this should be a place for positive reinforcement.  He saw that holistic was not an option for a number of reasons.  In the end.. I liked what he said and how he said it.

As for my "twigs and berries" post… I stated ADDING to treatment.  I'm curious as to what people use.  Meditation in the form of Yoga, martial arts, or simply sitting in quite, using incense, oils…what ever.  If or if NOT vitamins made people feel better.  Which ones they like or didn't like.  What foods or herbs they may have added that made them feel better.

t just wanted to know how other people are helping themselves and I didn't want to interrupt another person's thread.

I DID NOT EVER STATE that holistic was an ONLY option.

If we were having a conversation in person, I could understand you missing something I said.  Since this is a 'written' forum, I would hope that maybe…just maybe you'd go back and read things again to see if YOU missed something…not come out and attack me and accusing me of an 'agenda' or a "twigs and berries" thread.

If I wanted to be treated like a fifth class citizen, I'd go to Indiana wearing gay logo'd pink shirt a pride flag as a skirt.

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Offline Joe K

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #113 on: April 03, 2015, 04:22:06 pm »
agenda much? you started a new thread about twigs and berries, and now you drag this one off the shelf.

where are you going with this?

in your thread i asked you this, and i'll ask again in much more broad terms.

what is your goal?

Zach,

Take a deep breath my friend.  I read BubbaPat's post as he intended it, as an opinion on a post by another member.  There are no dragons here.

Joe

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #114 on: April 08, 2015, 12:48:26 pm »
Yeah! Amphetamines Are Hiding In Your Supplements

... and the FDA has known about it for years!
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Offline wolfter

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #115 on: April 08, 2015, 01:22:57 pm »
Yeah! Amphetamines Are Hiding In Your Supplements

... and the FDA has known about it for years!

Wow, during the times I was ingesting diet aids I was actually a druggie.  :)
Being honest is not wronging others, continuing the dishonesty is.

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #116 on: April 08, 2015, 05:32:25 pm »
I fall in the 50% of humanity (?) attracted to stimulants.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline jeffreyart

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #117 on: May 01, 2015, 01:30:21 am »
I think 30 years Hiv/Aids survivor I'm qualified to say something about this subject.

In all due respect to those affected: Hat's off to the ART meds since the first PI in 91 that changed everything! However, I think it notable that many, myself included were persuaded to go on the early ART's in the 80's and most all died. I came close.

My main point is if this guy is doing research on holistics it certainly can't hurt and there is plenty of evidence that many holistic meds do work with and without ART's.

I'm a survivor of the AZT trial in 87 (see Dallas Buyers Club). When that failed due to its toxicity I expanded my views and learned about holistics. Ozone therapy (oxygen) as it was called then must of helped, even doctors said then "whatever you're doing, its working" and it showed in my t-cells and overall health. I also learned about aloe very, garlic, juicing veggies and milk thistle to name a few. Milk thistle once made fun of by doctors is now being sold in many doctors offices.

Hep C treatment 6 years ago cured me. Hep and having had full blown Aids in 97 is not exactly healthy for the liver yet when a liver biopsy was taken my doctor said it was pink and healthy as a babies, and that's with all the partying I used to do.

Along with ozone therapy, I started taking milk thistle shortly after being diagnosed in 85 and when I felt my liver was overloaded i. e. early ART's, drinking too much etc I always took more milk thistle. No, there's no positive proof it was the milk thistle, there's also no way of knowing what these ART's are doing to our liver long term. I for one am sticking with ART's and holistics. My lastest gut problem may be cured again not by medicine or doctors but by a holistic treatment even some medical doctors are now using because it has a 90% cure rate for C. Diff, one nasty and deadly bacterial infection.

Unfortunately, the FDA doesn't approve FMT for past C. Diff infection only current so I'll be doing DIY FMT. Joy and icky but so is penicillin from mold. Hey I drank a quart of food grade hydrogen peroxide every night for 1 month back in the 80's (one of the ozone therapies) so I can do this. If it works and heals my very damaged gut like it has so many other gut illnesses I'll share it with everyone!

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #118 on: May 01, 2015, 01:48:47 am »
bananas started this thread  ::)

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #119 on: May 01, 2015, 05:05:56 pm »
I'll vouch for the benefits of milk thistle though true that is not proof and I can't even know for myself.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #120 on: May 17, 2015, 04:45:23 am »
Does anyone remember the name of that silly fucker who insisted HIV wasn't the cause of his AIDS?

Lived in New York. Medications were the work of big pharma, borderline denialist -- he was a mad as a clown's cock.

Of course he's utterly dead.

Perhaps we can point the OP to those threads.

MtD

Offline DANIELtakashi

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #121 on: May 17, 2015, 04:59:51 am »
I can't stand denialism.
The famous two women... their ideas make me feel sick.
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #122 on: May 17, 2015, 05:18:17 am »

Offline zach

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #123 on: May 17, 2015, 08:53:44 am »
emery was a powerful reality lesson for me. all of that went down around the same time i joined this forum, and being from atlanta i know the church culture he was part of

Offline phenethylamine

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #124 on: June 02, 2015, 07:08:08 pm »
Just want to make a few points here...

1) antimicrobial is incredibly vague, it applies to both viruses and bacteria of which there are endless variations. Retroviruses aren't the same as regular viruses. Even different strains of the same virus require different treatments. Your logic is that if Lysol kills 99.9 % of bacteria... bacteria is a microbe...HIV is a microbe.. therefore toilet bowl cleaner helps HIV. It's truth distortion. "Help" is the most dangerous word in advertising as something can "help" yet be totally ineffective.

2) If HIV dies when exposed to "Allicin" in vitro. That's probably cause HIV needs the conditions of a living host (in vivo) to survive.  Therefore you could expose it to anything and it would still die.

3) It's a misconception that you can judge the viruses progression based on how healthy or sick you get. That's why you need to get scheduled blood tests. CD4's can drop silently and unknowingly in the background without you noticing or "feeling it" which is what makes it dangerous, sneaky and easily deniable.

4) I really hope your being honest with us, I've seen similar posts on youtube... and it makes me wonder if its a malicious attempt to cause harm by a religious fanatic/hate group.

Offline ianmx

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #125 on: July 25, 2015, 01:54:50 pm »
everyone has the right to manage their healthcare in a way that makes them feel comfortable, they also have the right to share their experiences, but maybe be a little less combative.

if natural treatments are working for you, that is great. i would recommend blood tests more frequently, at least every 3 months, but that is up to you. i am a little concerned about your doctors knowledge in hiv where coming off meds is welcomed in exchange for eating bananas and garlic. hiv continually evolves, MAYBE that banana and garlic is helping you now, but hiv will realize you are playing games and get very angry with unknown consequences. meds attack the virus on all sides and keeps it guessing. banana and garlic will not change.

the original poster does bring up a good point, although not the point he was trying to bring up. what we eat does in fact have an overall effect on our bodies and hiv, there cannot be any dispute to that, so it isn't so far fetched to believe the right foods can also help fight the virus, but i recommend to err on the side of caution when deciding to come off all meds, there has been zero cases that show diet only can manage hiv, but many cases that show promise of a mix of diet and meds that are allowing people to live decades with hiv.

i have eaten very healthy, including bananas and garlic, both great antioxidants, yet i still contracted the virus. with that said, i was infected for 5 years before i felt any effects of hiv, most certainly due to my natural diet and exercise, so it would make sense that if you have controlled the virus with meds, then change your diet and exercise, that the virus would be spread much slower, but rest assure, you will find the need for meds again in your future. the question will be what damage have you done to your body with on and off again treatment? are you setting up the possibility of a mutation to a resistant hiv? if you are willing to take those risks then that is your choice, to the others, stay on meds but certainly look at your diet and add some natural antioxidant foods, fresh fruits and veggies, they will assist the drugs, just not replace them.

btw, fat redistribution is common with hiv even when not on meds. you might lose that if you have decided to eat a banana instead of a piece of cake. the banana didn't do it, the change in diet did. but if believing in the miracle of the banana is what motivates someone to eat healthier, more power to them... i am not willing to risk my health and put my faith into a banana, that is what landed me in this situation to begin with.  :P
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Offline johnboy2015

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #126 on: September 18, 2015, 05:10:53 pm »
There's an effort to "train your dragon!".  Think they made a movie.  However; each person responds in different way according to their physiology.  I've anything helps ONE person does not require it to be a standard practice.  Neither does it isolate that person for tribal stoning.  It's good to the heart to just share one experience in order to reach at least one other person it might make a profound meaning in their lives.
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Offline ceerrece

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #127 on: December 01, 2015, 10:58:57 pm »
Here's my simple advice: take your pills!! if you want to eat bananas, it's ok, maybe they could help, maybe not but please, take your pills man. It's that simple.

Offline chwhyoche

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2015, 10:29:55 pm »
Great nutrition is all well and good and can compliment HIV meds, but it cannot stave off the ill effects of the virus indefinitely.   I tried it and at the 10 year mark I had about 35 tcells, which was down from my original tcells of over 600.   I did not show signs of sickness til that last year.   So despite low tcells, you may not be getting sick or have typical low tcell symptoms, but then the wasting starts, the night sweats and the thrush.  Its gradual, but eventually it will kick your ass. 

If you are going this natural route , it would be good to find a doctor that would monitor your tcells and viral load.   I wish more doctors would be willing to do this.  There are some people that can go quite long without and I can see anyone's reasoning at not wanting to ingest these strong pharmaceuticals sooner.

Offline mecch

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #129 on: December 14, 2015, 02:32:47 pm »
Great nutrition is all well and good and can compliment HIV meds, but it cannot stave off the ill effects of the virus indefinitely.   I tried it and at the 10 year mark I had about 35 tcells, which was down from my original tcells of over 600.   I did not show signs of sickness til that last year.   So despite low tcells, you may not be getting sick or have typical low tcell symptoms, but then the wasting starts, the night sweats and the thrush.  Its gradual, but eventually it will kick your ass. 

If you are going this natural route , it would be good to find a doctor that would monitor your tcells and viral load.   I wish more doctors would be willing to do this.  There are some people that can go quite long without and I can see anyone's reasoning at not wanting to ingest these strong pharmaceuticals sooner.

The reason to take treatment drugs ASAP is that the vast majority of scientists, researchers and doctor-practitioners have recommended this is the best way to fight HIV and live for the longest with the FEWEST health concerns.

Embedded in your text above MIGHT be the insinuation that treatment drugs are TOXIC and there is not information coming from my Swiss specialists that HIV treatment drugs are TOXIC or "strong" in the sense damaging.  1000s of health care professionals have weighed the Pros and Cons of treatment at diagnosis vs delayed treatment and the current recommendation is treatment at diagnosis.

One main reason that health systems are not going to monitor all HIV+ people's blood, multiple times a year, as a NATIONAL practice, is COST.  It would raise exponentially the total cost of treating a population's hiv infections

This is the same reasoning behind the difficulty of attaining drug level monitoring - testing how much of the HIV antivirals are in the system. 

Occasionally people come into these forums bemoaning that they cannot get a TAILOR MADE prescription of HIV antivirals, mgs, that suits his/her body size and his/her absorption. 

Well, that would be nice! Sure.  AGAIN, costs.  Everybody can not get this. 

Everybody cannot get 4 or 6 blood tests a year just because they would like to avoid treatment.  Which, anyway, delayed treatment is not the recommended treatment protocol by all the surgeon generals in all the rich countries (with the exception of UK - which is still ok waiting??). 

My personal observation chwhyoche is that your knowledge is a bit dated and does not take global issues into consideration.  Such as what cost society can afford.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 02:37:45 pm by mecch »
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Offline chwhyoche

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #130 on: December 14, 2015, 11:21:49 pm »
good point.   

I was thinking in an ideal world.  ;-)   I'm an idealist.  Gotta watch myself.

Perhaps my ideas are dated, but tides shift back and forth in thinking. 

1000's?   I would need a list and go through the studies, which I'm sure exist.  But 1000's seems ambiguous.   But really, I do get what you are getting at.   

Offline Orez

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #131 on: December 31, 2016, 09:43:49 am »
Sean,

I see your last post was back in December 2014.  You last stated you just had a test done and was waiting for results.  What was the results of the test? Are you still off meds or did you have to restart meds?  Either way hope you are doing well.  BTW I am local to your area (If you still in the Indy area).  It has been almost a year since I found out I was POZ and went fro over a million to <20 in 10 months.
2016 Feb 15 - CD4=700; VL=8329600; CD%=38.9
2016 May 04 - CD4=?;    VL=90;     CD%=?     Stribild
2016 Aug 27 - CD4=810; VL=80;    CD%=35.2 Stribild
2016 Dec 17 - CD4=772; VL=<20;  CD%=38.6 Genvoya
2017 Apr 15 - CD4=905;  VL=40;    CD%=43.1 Genvoya
2018 Jan 04 - CD4=1458; VL=<20; CD%=48.6 Genvoya
2018 July 07- CD4=1264; VL=<20; CD%=48.6 Genvoya

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Battling HIV Naturally
« Reply #132 on: December 31, 2016, 09:50:38 am »
Orez,

Welcome to the forum, I note that this is a zombie thread, and posts from long before current treatment guidelines to treat all and studies that have shown the effects of HIV even under controllers.

Anyhow most of the members from the thread have moved on and the thread is old so no reply is expected, so what i will do is lock the thread. As a newbie the best thing you can do is introduce yourself to the other members by starting your own thread, this way the active members can engage with you and support you.

You could consider this section for a new thread and introduction if you like.
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?board=16.0

Take it easy

Jim

« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 09:52:39 am by JimDublin »
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