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Author Topic: Do u really Need Good Numbers  (Read 4177 times)

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Offline pinkadam

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  • Posts: 80
Do u really Need Good Numbers
« on: October 24, 2006, 06:54:53 PM »
Hi Guys

What is considered to be good numbers for Tcell and VL.
Is there a certain number one person should maintain so that he will not have any
Opportunistic Infections(OIs).

Some people here with high Tcell and Undectable VL still seem to have health issues.Does it mean once you are HIV+ , you are prone to nasty diseases(OIs) until you die ?
Some people with bad numbers (low Tcell and High VL) have no OIs. Does it mean they are just lucky.

Does the numbers (Tcell and VL) have any meaning ?????

How can a HIV+ person can have a healthy , happy life without these OIs.
What numbers will guarantee that you will not suffer OIs

All opinions welcome !!!

Thanks a lot

Offline roadlesstraveled

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Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2006, 07:41:52 PM »
My understanding is that most OI's are dramtically reduced with CD4 counts above 200. Albeit, some folk will get an OI with greater numbers, remember, HIV did not create any new diseases, all OI's have been around for a while they are just more common in those of us who are virally enhanced.  As for VL, the idea effects of this is >50 or non detectable. My understanding is a good CD4 count for a male is 350, this is considered low normal. Most virally enhanced individuals are living normal healthy lives already with the potent drugs available at this time. Soon, very soon, even those with resistance will be receiving better and more effective potent meds.
Man never knows precisly what is right. So torn between a purpose and a doubt, he first builds windows to let the light in, then hangs curtains to shut it out.

Offline Esquare

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Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2006, 07:49:32 PM »
These are questions that there are no 100% conclusive answers for from what I can gather based on reading everything I can get my hands on regarding HIV/AIDS during the last 2 months.

A doctor can't tell me that he is sure that I won't have an OI even if I can get above 200 or even 350 tcells because every person's body is different. Some people do great once they get on the meds and have few OI's and are dealing more with med side effects and then there are some that struggle with shaking OI's. I'm just going to try to keep as healthy as I can, take my meds as prescribed and hope for the best.

This seems to be the hangup that a newly diagnosed person will continue to have with the virus. Will I ever be free of OI's? Will the medicine work on me? There are so many factors to both of these questions that its tough for a doc to look you in the eye and say you will be fine and that's what we so badly want to hear when we are HIV+.  Statistics on HIV seem to be skewed if you ask me because of dishonesty and unknowns so I am not paying as much attention to them anymore.   

Offline Ann

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Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2006, 05:51:01 AM »
Hi Tony,

I've moved your thread from the Side Effects forum to the Living forum because this is more a Living With issue than it is a drug side effect issue. You'll get more responses here in Living.

With hiv, as with life itself, there are no guarantees. All you can really do in either case is to look after your health through diet and exercise and do what you need to do to remain emotionally healthy too. Make sure you are having an hiv check-up at least four times a year and learn all you can about hiv so you can be a partner with your doctor in your health care.

Have you had a look through the  Lessons yet? That's an excellent place to start and you'll find many answers to your questions there.

Hang in there Tony! Finding out you are hiv positive is one of the steepest learning curves you'll come across in your life, but you can - and will - get through this.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Maestro

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Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2006, 08:06:32 AM »
I can say this:  My uncle has what would certainly not be considered good numbers.  Has not gone above 200 for 7+ years.  In those 7 years, had PCP and one other OI (both at the very beginning) and has basically been healthy since.  He had his recent kidney issues, but that appeared to be more a function of the meds than the HIV itself.  So in my not so educated opinion, I would say No, you dont really need good numbers (but try telling that to someone without good numbers!).


Offline aztecan

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  • 32 years positive, 60 years a pain in the butt
Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2006, 08:13:43 AM »
Hey Tony,

You just asked the $64,000 question. As Ann said, there are no guarantees, but there is always hope.

Some people have more difficulties even with higher CD4s. But there also are some people who are predisposed to more health issues. In the old days, before HIV, they would refer to such people as "frail."

Generally speaking, the higher the CD4, the better off you'll be. That is why I am such a strong advocate for treatment before people's CD4s drop too low.

But, we all must play the cards we are dealt. All I can offer is to make the best of whatever your personal situation is, and take whatever steps that can be reasonably taken to enhance your overall wellbeing.

In other words, make the most of what you've got. That is how I have come to view both living with HIV and living in general.


"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline Brian360

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  • Just livin' it up until the sun goes down.
Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2006, 10:49:32 AM »
Hi Tony,

I just wanted to put my two cents of non-educated guessing in.  When I was first diagnosed in 2004, my doctor put me on Truvada and Sustiva.  Not liking the side effects at all within a month I stopped taking them.  Because of my diagnosis and loosing a job that I enjoyed very much I fell into a major depression.  I've got wear marks on my couch where I layed curled up for most of 2005. It wasn't until July this year that I decided to be responsible and start a regimen and my first lab results were Tcells 1, and a viral load so high they stopped counting above 750,000.  Except for feeling tired most of the time I didn't really notice a difference in the way I felt.  But my family had noticed physical changes  in the way I looked.  I recently met a man in his 60's that has told me he has been non-detectable for over 5 years but still has problems with tumors.  Is this just a consequence of old age or having HIV.  Like it was mentioned before, the medication prescribed is great for improving those numbers but I don't like the caveats they have for kidney or liver problems.  If I have to take these meds for the rest of my life do I also need to worry about kidney/liver failure down the road too?

I guess the numbers are what the doctors base the severity of the HIV/AIDS.  A clean, healthy living is all a person that is diagnosed can live for.  Ailments will come and go with aging and as for those HIV/AIDS related problems (KS, etc.) we may or may not get them.  But I think having high numbers will diminish the possibility of getting those HIV related problems.

Again, this is my non-educated guessing....

July06: Tcells 0, VL >+750,000
Aug06: TCells 22, VL 214,000
Sep06: TCells 32, VL 34,500
Oct06: TCells 92, VL 9,560
Dec06: Tcells 27, VL 25,000
Jan07: Tcells 43, VL - un-detect
Jan10: TCells 111 - popped to 160 fall 09, VL  undectable since Oct. 07

Offline Life

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  • Member 2005
Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2006, 11:02:33 AM »
I was told I needed a Gahzillion Cd4's and things would be right as rain.  Viral load should be just a plane old 0.   ;D

Offline pinkadam

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Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2006, 06:24:26 AM »
That was a great wealth Of opinions

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2009, 06:13:07 PM »
I'm not concerned with have having "good" numbers. Two months ago, my tcells were 71 and VL 500,000. I'm not even considering drugs for I am the picture of health!
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Posts: 7,540
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2009, 06:58:39 PM »
I'm not concerned with have having "good" numbers. Two months ago, my tcells were 71 and VL 500,000. I'm not even considering drugs for I am the picture of health!

How long have you been living in Denial?

Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 20mg of Atorvastatin, 25 mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Amlodipine Besolate 5mg-- Updated 9/24/2017

Diagnosed positive in 1985,.. In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started on  HAART on October 24th, 2003.

 As of 9/18/2017,  Viral load remains <40
CD 4 @358 /  CD4 % @ 13

 65 years young.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2009, 07:52:45 PM »
Etay, you were pointedly asked by a moderator yesterday to cease bumping three year old threads.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline leatherman

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  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Do u really Need Good Numbers
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2009, 07:55:19 PM »
I'm not concerned with have having "good" numbers. Two months ago, my tcells were 71 and VL 500,000. I'm not even considering drugs for I am the picture of health!
Hi Etay, I see you've been posting in a lot of older threads. You really ought to start up your own new thread so that everyone can have a chance to reply to you without piggybacking onto all these old threads about other people.

That said, although you may "feel" healthy, that scientific test result of only 71 tcells says that you're not very healthy. And that vl of half a million is going to get to you sooner or later. Unfortunately then you'll know just how weakened your immune system really is and that your "picture of health" was only an outside appearance and had nothing at all to do with the very sick person inside. I hope you talk to a doctor and see about getting treatment for the HIV ASAP.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the sea
and the party is on fire around you and me
We're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes
- Pet Shop Boys

chart from 1992-2015


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