Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
January 22, 2018, 05:31:38 AM

Login with username, password and session length

  • Total Posts: 725396
  • Total Topics: 59138
  • Online Today: 311
  • Online Ever: 1421
  • (August 13, 2016, 05:18:44 AM)
Users Online
Users: 3
Guests: 244
Total: 247


Welcome to the POZ Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Welcome to Am I Infected

Welcome to the "Am I Infected?" POZ forum.

New members -- those who have posted three or fewer messages -- are permitted to post questions and responses, free of charge (make them count!). Ongoing participation in the "Am I Infected?" forum -- posting more than three questions or responses -- requires a paid subscription.

A seven-day subscription is $9.99, a 30-day subscription is $14.99 and a 90-day subscription is $24.99.

Anyone who needs to post more than three messages in the "Am I Infected?" forum -- including past, present and future POZ Forums members -- will need to subscribe, with secure payments made via PayPal.

There will be no charge to continue reading threads in the "Am I Infected?" forum, nor will there be a charge for participating in any of the Main Forums; Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits; and Off Topic Forums. Similarly, all POZ pages, including our "HIV Transmission and Risks" and "Am I Infected? (A Guide to Testing for HIV)" basics, will remain accessible to all.

NOTE: HIV testing questions will still need to be posted in the "Am I Infected?" forum; attempts to post HIV symptoms or testing questions in any other forums will be considered violations of our rules of membership and subject to time-outs and permanent bans.

To learn how to upgrade your Forums account to participate beyond three posts in the "Am I Infected?" Forum, please click here.

Thank you for your understanding and future support of the best online support service for people living with, affected by and at risk for HIV.

Author Topic: 1 in 10,000?  (Read 3857 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline singlemom

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
1 in 10,000?
« on: July 29, 2012, 03:09:10 PM »
I've been browsing the internet for about 2 days (big mistake) regarding HIV risk via oral sex and there is so much conflicting information! I'm newly single and finally had sex for the first time in almost 2 years  ;D. It was protected vaginal and unprotected oral with deep throating. I'm a female and it was the first time I ever tried deep throat. My partner was a bit rough and was pushing my head down. My throat has been a bit sore ever since (I know it isn't ars but the result of going deep)
With so much information on the internet, its difficult to figure out whom to believe. Some sites state that anytime you have any kind of unprotected sex there is risk involved. Others say that any kind of unprotected oral sex (deep throat, with or without ejaculation) poses zero risk.  Safe sex is very important to me especially since I have 4 children. I want to enjoy dating and having safe sexual encounters and not worry about the risks associated with oral sex...deep or otherwise!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: 1 in 10,000?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2012, 03:11:25 PM »
You never had an exposure from oral sex.

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 32,271
Re: 1 in 10,000?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012, 05:15:44 PM »
The only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. As long as condoms are properly used for those activities you will be well protected.

Other STDs are much easier to acquire than HIV, so anyone who is sexually active ought to regularly have a ful STD panel done. That means at least once a year and every six months is even better.

Andy Velez

Offline singlemom

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
Re: 1 in 10,000?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 05:53:23 PM »
thank you Andy and rapid rod for your direct responses.
I do go to my ob/gyn and have pap smears and cultures done regularly. I also had my blood checked for HIV about one year ago.
I am very careful about condoms (4 kids is more than enough) and I did see that it was in place when he pulled out, though I didn't remove it myself to check for breakage. Though its been many years since I've used a condom, I'm sure I would have noticed it being broken when I glanced down to make sure it was in place.

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 32,271
Re: 1 in 10,000?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2012, 07:05:14 PM »
When a condom fails it's very apparent to the eye what has happened because the whole thing ends up looking like a hoop with fringe on the penis. It's not about itty bitty little holes as people sometimes fear.
Andy Velez

Offline singlemom

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
Re: 1 in 10,000?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2012, 07:37:36 PM »
 The condom certainly didn't look like there was anything wrong with it when I glanced so I didn't even bother examining it. Thank you again for your reply and reassurance. I'm glad I found this site, you guys provide a fantastic service for those of us who aren't always aware of the risks (or lack thereof).

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: 1 in 10,000?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 09:18:36 PM »
The condom certainly didn't look like there was anything wrong with it when I glanced so I didn't even bother examining it. Thank you again for your reply and reassurance. I'm glad I found this site, you guys provide a fantastic service for those of us who aren't always aware of the risks (or lack thereof).
Please know that article MOST OFTEN quoted to provide statistical evidence and odds for HIV transmission (using the 1 in 10,000 model) is the one by:

Varghese B, Maher JE, Peterman TA, Branson BM, Steketee RW. Reducing the risk of sexual HIV transmission: quantifying the per-act risk for HIV on the basis of choice of partner, sex act, and condom use. Sex Transm Dis 2002;29(1):38-43.

Not only is the study ten years old, but it was released without even referencing the 2000 Spanish serodiscordant studies by Romero (to be fair, given the time between acquiring and processing data and publication, the study might have even predated the Romero study) and the subsequent studies by Page-Shafer et al who also used serodiscordant couples to "quantify" oral transmission.

More to why I put quotes around "quantify" later.

The study in question ADMITS (not in the abstract, but in the full article) that the researchers could FIND no verifiable, documented cases of infection through oral sex in either direction from either gender. But for purposes of bookmarking the HIGH risk data, they simply assigned a "1 in 10,000" statistic to those activities in order for them to appear in the study.

But that's fraudulent research, you see. Because in order to QUANTIFY an event, it must have been verified to have taken place. Verified using the SAME criteria as the other risky activities were verified. This did not happen. It COULD not happen because the ONLY QUANTIFICATION of ANY oral activity transmitting HIV exists within the realm of patient report after the fact - a method of report so unreliable as to be disqualified from most forensic investigation.

My footnotes for that information:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117

Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

Some studies we use for determining the risk (or lack thereof) in oral sex insofar as HIV is concerned are as follows:

No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS:  Volume 16(17)  22 November 2002  pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan

Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Why the CDC of all places continues to use discredited and unreliable studies in order to maintain and uphold the stigma against serodiscordant sex is beyond me. It is, at the end of the day, a governmental agency. And the USA, whom I love very much, remains a very sex-obsessed and sex-negative nation.

Here we use science, not politics. I have enough trouble keeping up with the former. I have no stomach for the latter.

Do I think it IMPOSSIBLE to get HIV from giving head? No. There are outliers excessive enough to remain totally off the grid for research purposes. Google "meth mouth" and you will see a population not likely to be tracked, or even trackable ethically.

But unless that's you (and if it is, I suspect HIV is in the fine print of things that need addressing) then I can, without equivocation, say that you were not at risk for HIV.

Just don't forget about the other STIs that you CAN get, and get checked regularly for those.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread


Terms of Membership for these forums

© 2017 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.