Condyloma (anal warts) and HIV

[mattdude]

Hey everyone.

I was diagnosed last summer with HIV and then just two days ago with a growth in my rectum the doc thought might be condyloma (or anal warts). We're still waiting for the biopsy.

I feel like I'm a sexual mutant now with one thing after the other affecting both my sex life and confidence.

I've only had anal intercourse 5 times in my life (once unprotected which resulted in both the HIV and HPV) and I feel as though the doctor is looking at me like I spend my weekends legs-up in the bathhouses.

Has anyone here ever had to have surgery for rectal condyloma? How does being HIV positive affect the healing/recurrance rate?

In many ways I feel like this is worse than the HIV because it's causing me severe pain every day and I feel way more embarassed and worried about it.
And I was just getting comfortable with being positive....does the shit never end? I'm only 28!

[freaky_dream]

There are a few here who have been through the surgery from scanning the forums in the past. Try searching and sending a pm to those who have been through it, I am sure they will respond. Also aren't warts supposed to be painless? Sounds strange they would be causing you pain. Being HIV positive may make it more difficult for you to clear the virus as prior research has shown but everyone's immune system is different... 

Have your insertive partner wear a condom from now on if you wish to avoid this recurring however even a simple rub betwen skin can transmit it, it all depends on how much of the virus is being shed and your immune response . BTW HPV is common in the majority of sexually active people they just don't show it. There are like 30-40 different strains of HPV, most don't cause condylomas and the ones that don't produce condylomas are the most dangerous as they are mostly responsible for Dysplasia. Good luck.

[newbie76]

Hi Matt,

I have had surgery for anal warts and I am sorry to tell you, it's no walk in the park.

First of all, you should ask your doctor if there are other ways to go about getting rid of them. If they are external they can normally be frozen or burnt and this is much less painfull than what it sounds.

Unfortunately, if they are internal, surgery is usually the only way forward. The surgery is usually done under general anesthesy and it largely depends on the number of warts and area affected.

The recovery is long and painful because of stools constantly infecting the area. HIV infection if your CD4 is low, might result in you to have to take antibiotics to keep the infection risk under control.

For me it took about a month to start and recover properly. And I also had to had a 2nd operation with a private doc as the 1st one removed too many all at the same time resulting in an eccessive growth of scar tissue which meant I could only go to the toilet by having enemas as my passage was so tight.

After the 2nd surgery, things have improved greatly, although receptive anal sex for me will probably never be possible again, unless I undergo a 3rd surgery which for now I want to try and avoid. I can go to the toilet normally and this is the most important thing for me.

I hope I didn't scare you too much. Just ask questions. My second surgeon said that when there are many warts, the way to apporach them is to remove them in one area, wait for it to heal and then do a second operation, otherwise it'd happen what it has happened to me.

Good luck!

[mattdude]

Wow. Thanks for your answer, even though it sucks to hear.

The reason it's causing me pain is because one is so big that it's prolapsing each time I go to the toilet. I started to get fissures because of the stress of replacing it back into my rectum. But those have healed and I'm pretty much set into a routine while going to the toilet.

I don't know how many are up there since the doc didn't tell me. Just that I had some 'golf-ball' sized something that he figured was condyloma.

Long and painful recovery sounds like hell. I feel like this second std is overkill punishment for having unprotected sex just once. But who said life was fair....

Thanks for you responses.

[Ann]

Matt,

STIs aren't punishments, they're simply bacterium and viruses that have no hidden agenda other than creating more just like them. They're pretty good at out-witting us humans.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You're human, just like the rest of us and just like the rest of us, we make mistakes sometimes.

Hang in there and good luck with the warts. I know they're not pleasant by any stretch of the imagination, but they're not punishments either. Hope you're feeling better (physically AND emotionally) soon.

Ann

PS - you might want to try using unscented baby wipes in the toilet. There very useful for when you have BM related pain - and they help with keeping secondary bacterial infections at bay. I use them myself, because of chronic dire-rear (my pet name for diarrhea) and occasional herpes outbreaks. I wouldn't be without them.

[bocker3]

Hi Matt,

You sound like I did 3 yrs ago -- first HIV diagnosis, then HSV (herpes), then the HPV resulting in anal warts -- I felt like a walking viral convention center.  Feeling guilty won't change anything -- these are viruses -- you caught these, just like you've probably caught a number of cold viruses over your life.  The only difference is HOW you catch them -- sex causes such guilt in so many.  I had to work my way through it all too.  Stop blaming yourself -- what's done is done.  Try to focus on dealing with what is in front of you.

Now - on to my anal warts......  I had surgery because they were both external and internal.  All in all, it wasn't that bad.  There was some pain for a couple of days, the first bowel movement was a bit rough -- but honestly, it was more the fear of it, than the reality.  I took some warm baths throughout the day to help.  Interestingly, I did not need any antibiotics after the surgery.  In less than a week, I was pretty much back to normal -- working, playing tennis, etc.  They came back a few times -- the first couple of times, they were just external and I used a topical medicine called Aldara to get rid of them -- a bit irritating, but better than surgery.  A year after the first surgery, I need another due to some new internal warts.  My experience was the same -- less than week recup -- only missed 2 days of work.  I've been wart free ever since -- 2 yrs now.

Hope my story helps -- of course, our bodies all react differently and none of my warts were causing any pain.  Try to get yourself a good colon-rectal surgeon -- I loved mine.

Mike

[newhorizon80]

When I first developed anal warts, my doctor treated me with cryotherapy only.  I had a few (I don't think I had more than two at any one time) internal perianal warts that we continued to treat with cryotherapy as I did not want to have surgery to remove them.  I wouldn't have know they were there since I had no pain.  Finally, after about two years (of going on regular three-month intervals, I no longer have/get them.

Now we'll have to see if HIV has any sort of interaction with my body's ability to suppress HPV.  My doctor says there shouldn't be.

[northernguy]

I'm in the same boat as you mattdude.  Don't feel bad, I think stats show @ 85% of gay men carry HPV.  Its just that it develops into warts more frequently for poz folks.

I've had some external ones frozen off.  Recovery is painful for a week.  I have some internal ones the doc at the dysplasia clinic is just monitoring every 6 months, its not a given they'll progress to cancer, though my GP says why not get them removed.  Ask about the options, the dysplasia clinic here uses infrared coagulation to get rid of them rather than surgery.  Supposedly its a faster and less painful recovery.

[mattdude]

Thanks everyone, so much, for your responses.

I totally get how much of a necessity these forums are. It sucks that I only find myself online when something horrible happens. But thanks to you regular posters who keep everyone sane.

Thanks northernguy, newhorizon80, bocker and ann and the others who replied. You guys were here for me during the first few awful days after my diagnosis last summer. And here you are again...

Yes, I feel like a walking petri-dish been smeared with everything imaginable. And the worst part is that my father is a doctor and I come from a long line of physicians...except they don't know that I'm gay, let alone that I have HIV. Unfortunately, I grew up with the pretense that STIs were punishments for immoral behavior. It obviously doesn't hold up under scrutiny, but I'm the only member of my family to have left the church, so it feels somehow that the parents were right.

Everything should be fine but the G.I. doctor freaked me out with his reaction when he saw my internal lump. "I don't know what that thing is!" he shouted and then demanded to know if I was "a homosexual". The whole thing made me feel doomed. Hopefully he won't be the one operating on me.

Bocker, your story gives me hope. I've read some horror stories that put me in a funk the last couple days. But yours sounds like this thing is manageable and it won't have the huge impact on my life I freaked myself into expecting. And how does your backdoor look now? Is it all scarred up? Does it look normal?

Frankly, I don't know if I'll ever get over the guilt of these, but I'll try. You guys sure make it easier. I can't thank you enough.

[freaky_dream]

Damn Matt do you live in Utah or something? I'd say get a gay doctor as they are used to treating patients in these kinds of situations and tend to be non judgmental but it sounds like you may be out in the 'burbs or in no gay mans land.

[clsoca]

There are actually a handful of HIV poz ID Docs here in the LA area believe it or not. Unfortuantly these Docs are closed to new patients.

[BM]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents (or 1.37 pence, if you're British  )

I've had warts for a number of years. The external ones were successfully frozen in 2003 (not a pleasant experience). I've always felt as though I have them internally, but I was told there was nothing that could be done about those and that removal of external warts was for purely cosmetic reasons.

Recently I've developed two external lumps that don't really feel like warts. The skin in that area is occasionally sore and itchy. I'm also getting pain that is difficult to describe but is a bit like the toe-curling sensation you get when *something* is introduced too quickly into the rear.

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but any ideas what this might be?

[bocker3]

Bocker, your story gives me hope. I've read some horror stories that put me in a funk the last couple days. But yours sounds like this thing is manageable and it won't have the huge impact on my life I freaked myself into expecting. And how does your backdoor look now? Is it all scarred up? Does it look normal?

Frankly, I don't know if I'll ever get over the guilt of these, but I'll try. You guys sure make it easier. I can't thank you enough.

Hey Matt,

I am happy to share my experience with you -- keep in mind, though, that my wart surgery experiences were mine -- everyone is different.  However, I wanted you to know that they are not always torturous.  It was painful, but not for long -- and the pain drugs did their thing for me.  As of now -- my "backdoor" looks fine -- I check it regularly to insure no outbreaks of warts.  Yes -- I try to squat over a mirror every couple of weeks, my partner cracks up -- but he doesn't trust himself to say everything looks good -- he's afraid he'll miss something.

So get your physical self taken care of -- and please consider talking to someone about this guilt.  A virus doesn't give a crap if you go to church regularly, if you sleep with men, women or both.  It's just a bunch of genetic material trying to make more of itself.  It is NOT a retribution for anything.  Also, the fact that you come from a long line of physicians doesn't make you impervious to these viral hitchhikers -- case in point -- I have a Master of Public Health degree and yet I've managed to acquire them.  Cut yourself some slack -- and see if you can't find a good therapist to sit and talk this out.  Guilt is useless and can be so counterproductive.

Anytime you need to talk come on here and talk -- plus you are always welcome to send me a PM.

Good luck -- and keep us posted.

Hugs,
Mike

[Ann]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents (or 1.37 pence, if you're British  )

Oh dear, rub it in!    

Recently I've developed two external lumps that don't really feel like warts. The skin in that area is occasionally sore and itchy. I'm also getting pain that is difficult to describe but is a bit like the toe-curling sensation you get when *something* is introduced too quickly into the rear.

If these lumps are on or right at the edge of your ring, it sounds like hemorrhoids. Anytime you get a lump in your perianal area (the area surrounding your anus, including going forward towards your balls) you really need to show a doctor - even if they do only turn out to be 'roids.

Ann

[Ann]

Everything should be fine but the G.I. doctor freaked me out with his reaction when he saw my internal lump. "I don't know what that thing is!" he shouted and then demanded to know if I was "a homosexual". The whole thing made me feel doomed. Hopefully he won't be the one operating on me.
 

Wow Matt, that sucks! If it were me, I'd leave no stone unturned in the quest for a more understanding and compassionate doctor - or at the very least, one who doesn't bring moral judgements into the exam room or operating theatre. I hope you can find someone different. Good luck!

You know, I kinda felt like a walking virus factory when I was new to all this too - I had herpes, hep C and hiv and tested poz for a couple others (ones that tend to remain dormant unless your immune system hits rock bottom), ones I don't recall the names of offhand. The feeling did pass in time.

Don't let a belief system based largely in myth make you feel guilty or like you should be punished. And DON'T let a doctor who thinks/feels that way have anything to do with your health-care! Hang in there, and good luck.

Ann

[jerek]

i have had to have warts removed 3 separate times.  i had no problems with any of the surgeries.  when i live in los angeles the doctor did them in his office under local anesthesia (this was for internal & external warts). i was fine for about 4 years until my 2nd bout came up.  this time i was living in pa and had to go under in the opearting room to get them removed.  neither time was real painful.  maybe because i am a big ole bottom...lol! for me i had no pain or discomfort when going to the bathroom and was back to sex and hole play in less than a month.

[mattdude]

Thanks guys. Again, you make me feel like there will be an end to this.

I used to think that a man could be an island - drifting on his own, by himself, without need of any one else to help him. HIV has proved me wrong on so many counts. The least of which has been discovering this trove of great online friends who don't think twice about sharing their stories in order to help someone else feel better.

Thanks so much....seriously.

[fearless]

hey Matt,

hang in there and don't stress too much. as you can see, many of us have had to deal with warts.
i've never had a problem with mine and have been lucky enough to always be able to have them dealt with by the doc at his surgery - frozen off, internal and external, on the spot. i've never had any ongonig pain or complications from the procedures but mine were always quite small in size - i guess there is some advantage to sticking your fingers up your butt all the time - you get to feel these things before they get out of control. 

[HotGreek_STL]

Hey,
Its good to have these removed.  Some warts are precancerous and others are the real thing.   Having these removed and sent to pathology is the best way to find out.  I had mine removed with light anesthesia via IV.   I was scared because I had never had surgery for anything before but I had a great caring doctor in Saint Louis at Barnes Hospital.  She is the only gal I would let put her fingers up my butt.

Now the Pros & Cons:

Pros: Piece of mind as to what these things are and for me better sex when I am a bottom.

Cons:  It hurts like hell for a few weeks when you go to the bathroom.   It gets better over time but man Did it hurt.   I wish I knew a safe word to make the pain stop.

[Miss Philicia]

Try getting a nasty case of anal warts along with a grade 3 external hemorrhoid, and during the hot, sweaty summer months to boot.  Basically the entire last half of 1998 was ruined.  It took several treatments of various kinds to finally get rid of them, but at least they've never returned unlike some of my other friends who have had this.  My legs were definitely up at the bath house that year -- Carlos in Stall #13 of the Tom Cat Bookstore bestowed me a farewell gift.  Great fuck though, so I felt some consolation.

Make sure after clearing up those filthy A.W.'s that you get a yearly screening by a reputable Colon/Rectal Surgeon who treats a sizable amount of pozzies, as A.W.'s can cause HPV dysplasia lesions, some pre-cancerous, and they need to be monitored and, at times, zapped with a laser. 

[freaky_dream]

And this is one of the reasons why I will never get fucked bareback outside of a monogamous relationship anymore. Not judging those who do but I am too conscious of my health now to ever go back to my old ways.

[fearless]

freaky,
the wart virus is very easy to pick up - you don't need to bareback to catch it. chances are, you already carry the virus - a large percentage of the population do.

[Basquo]

freaky,
the wart virus is very easy to pick up - you don't need to bareback to catch it. chances are, you already carry the virus - a large percentage of the population do.

Amen to that--you can get HPV by just rubbing; no bareback necessary.

[Miss Philicia]

Next up: catching gonorrhea from a porn star!

[freaky_dream]

freaky,
the wart virus is very easy to pick up - you don't need to bareback to catch it. chances are, you already carry the virus - a large percentage of the population do.

Yes I am well aware how it easily it is transmitted, if you read my first post in the thread I mentioned that... What i was referring to was getting AW's inside the rectum which can be easily avoided if you use a condom. How many total tops do you ever hear complaining about rectal warts? And btw I had a bout of HPV a few years ago so yeah I can speak from experience too. 

[ShyboyCRT]

Hey Everyone,

I have a recurring condyloma on the head of my penis and to the left.  I've had the same one frozen by a derm. about 4 times now and it just won't go away.  I've had others frozen off with no trouble in the past.   Oddly, this one popped up right after I received my 3rd and final HPV vaccination from my primary care physician.  I was wondering if anyone has had any similar experience recently?

I'm using Aldara cream on it now every other day, hoping this will be the last treatment necessary.

thanks for any insight,

Peace!

[markaj]

I can totally relate to all these posts.  I had a mass of anal warts that were in no hurry to leave me.  What with HIV and HCV, I felt like a walking petri dish. The freeze therapy didn't help much, what did was applying the 'Aldara' imiquimod cream every other day as you are, it did the trick!  Good luck.

[livingpos]

Hey Matt,

Yep you are right, it sucks! First the HIV and then the HPV. I know what you mean. I felt just you like you described...dirty and diseased.

BUT hang in there... it will get better. I had surgery for the warts, and yeah it took 3 uncomfortable 'surgeries' under general anesthetic before they left but its been one year and it feels great to be clean!! Be patient and hang in there!

Make sure you are comfortable speaking to your doctor. HPV is common and you have nothing to be ashamed of. And this is not meant to freak you out but just to be cautious and proactive - make sure you get an anal pap smear and do it every year. Some HPV has been linked with anal cancer which can be managed if detected early.

Hugs and hang in there!!
Jonathan

[Inchlingblue]

 
Everything should be fine but the G.I. doctor freaked me out with his reaction when he saw my internal lump. "I don't know what that thing is!" he shouted and then demanded to know if I was "a homosexual". The whole thing made me feel doomed. Hopefully he won't be the one operating on me.

LOL.....he sounds like Dr. Spaceman (pronounced "spa-che-min") on 30 Rock@!

(Don't mean to "make light" but sometimes with these things I think it's better to laugh or else it's too easy to cry instead....)

[heartforyou]

It sure ain't no walk in the park.

I had condylomata removed, internal ones, a year ago.
It is very painfull, at least the recovery is.

Make sure, whenever you go through the procedure to ask for a lot of stool softeners and painkillers.
I was not given the softeners and ever since I know what it must feel to give birth to 20 pound twins.. over and over again...

It was one of the worst things ever happen to me, but with a lot of the above mentioned, you will overcome.

Hermie

[antibody]

I am due for an over haul, it will be my third time. I don't understand it. My cd4 count is 1854 but my butt looks like a wasteland. Scars from the past two times having them burned off. the pain is hell but the breif period with a somewhat smooth ass again is worth it.

[Peacock]

Thanks for your posting mattdude. after reading all the replys and noticing how many people have read your post..I dont feel too bad anymore. I thought I was a 'freak' with my sore bum. 
But it seems like quite a common problem.
I get a small bump about the size of  a fingernail just outside the rim of my hole..and it hurts like hell. It feels like a sore nerve. and I got through the last night and day with painkillers and ANUSOL (bless the soul who created Anusol)
Ive had it before and it lasts for a few days before shrinking..if its still around on Monday then thanks to your post and the reply's and the encouragement I feel-Im gonna make an appointment with my Dr and let her look at my ass. (cringe)
Im so glad I read this post of yours because its helped me realise that Dr's are there to help you and they should be used to looking at ass, fanny and dick. (sorry for being so crude! ) and if my Dr reacts in a shocking manner and makes me feel bad about myself then I will find a better Dr that knows how to act proffessionally-and do what Doctors do...Fix me!
Thanks again for the post.
By the way, the sore on my bum usually arises after  constipation and if I 'pushed too hard' on the loo. It could also arise if I blow my nose too hard too often. Ive realised that the pressure created by blowing my nose actually affects my bum. Strange but True-Ripleys Believe it or not!

[bruceinerwin]

   Just had surgery Thursday May 17th 2012 and I can say it is the most horrible thing I have ever gone through. My doctor wasn't able to remove all of them during this surgery. I will need another surgery very soon. Sadly this is going to a life long battle for me. HIV and now HPV. My doctor says that if it isn't cancer this time and he highly suspects it is cancerous, that it will eventually become cancerous. He said that the rapid growth of the warts leads him to tell me that. I have only been diagnosed since March. But there was a sense of urgency to remove the warts. The pain of the surgery is almost more than I can handle. I usually have a very high tolerance for pain. On a scale of 1 to 10, it is a 10+.  Bowel Movements are akin to trying to pass shards of glass.  The pain is so bad that if I could throw up I would.  Sorry for scaring people. I just want to let people what they are in for. I will probably have to have this surgery every year for the rest of my life.  It saddens me that there is really so little information about this that is useful.  It also saddens me that it is a preventable infection, but like the early days of HIV, it is so taboo, that no one talks about it.  Sadly people are dying from preventable and curable cancers because HPV, Anal Warts, Cervical Warts, Genital Warts in general are a sexually transmitted infection.  Maybe we should bring back an old phrase from the early days of the HIV/AIDS pandemic.  SILENCE=DEATH!

[tednlou2]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents (or 1.37 pence, if you're British  )

I've had warts for a number of years. The external ones were successfully frozen in 2003 (not a pleasant experience). I've always felt as though I have them internally, but I was told there was nothing that could be done about those and that removal of external warts was for purely cosmetic reasons.

Recently I've developed two external lumps that don't really feel like warts. The skin in that area is occasionally sore and itchy. I'm also getting pain that is difficult to describe but is a bit like the toe-curling sensation you get when *something* is introduced too quickly into the rear.

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but any ideas what this might be?

Could they be skin tags?  I had a growth that I and one colorectal doc thought was a wart.  Went to one of the best colorectal docs in town, and he said it was just a skin tag.  I had the raw and itchy butt.  It didn't spread and has actually disappeared.  For all I know, wiping tore it off or something.  As for that pain, I get really bad shooting pains up my bum from time to time.  I think those are just sphincter spasms.  Just a thought.