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Author Topic: Why not undetectable?  (Read 3383 times)

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Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 13,386
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Why not undetectable?
« on: January 14, 2009, 01:27:24 PM »
Hi experts and others!

Post holiday labs - the ID says it is a less than ideal result. He expected undectable, not a tiny rise in VL.

last labs:
18.11.08 CD4 433 15% VL 130
Switched to Reyataz Norvir Truvada

new labs:
14.01.09 CD4 515 20% VL 244

I said I saw in this forum that many people take months or a year to go undectable and he said he had expected this not to be my case because i was treated so soon. But then he qualified and said I was unusual case, anyway, with such high viral loads to start.

I am 100% adherent to medicine.
I have no other illnesses or herpes, etc.
My initial tests were 100% non-resistant virus.

ID says he cannot check for resistance now, only if VL goes up again.
Says - well, we just wait and see what happens next.

Any thoughts.
Guess I have to be patient.

Best to all...

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Assurbanipal

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  • Posts: 2,175
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Why not undetectable?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 04:49:08 PM »
Think you have nailed it; it can take longer to get to undetectable if you start with 1M+ viral load. 
Did for me at any rate.

And remember these viral load tests should really be shown as ranges of plus/minus three times to reflect the sampling error. 

Looks like your immune system is rebounding nicely!

An Other
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%
2014 VL UD - 48
2015 VL 130 Moved to Triumeq

Offline BlueMoon

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  • Posts: 665
  • Calling from the Fun House
Re: Why not undetectable?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 05:28:12 PM »
. . . and others!

Guess I'll chime in then.   ;D

After eight and a half months on that combo, I'm still not "undectable".  Getting close, with my most recent test at 51.  I like this combo (my first) for its lack of side effects, and intend to continue it unless I see the viral load start to take off. 

I think your results look good.  You've come a long way and your immune system is responding well.  Since you don't mention any side effects, I'd stay on the combo for now.  Just keep an eye on things.
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline minismom

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  • Posts: 2,649
  • Quocumque jeceris stabit
Re: Why not undetectable?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2009, 06:16:06 AM »
Mecch, when Mini was first tested, her VL was 2M+.  At that time, we were told that whatever they used to count VL only went to 2M.  It took her untold numbers of combinations and nearly 2yrs to become undetectable.  I agree with everyone here, you're numbers are certainly headed in the right direction.  You went from a vl of over 3M to 2600 in a month - that's outright AMAZING! 

"Whichever way you throw me, i will stand"
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today...it's already tomorrow in Australia"  Charles Schultz

Offline SoSadTooBad

  • Member
  • Posts: 259
Re: Why not undetectable?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2009, 12:58:47 PM »
mecch - doing great, IMO.  My ID doc said some people take a very long time to get to undetectible, and while that is the optimal outcome, a very tiny detectible VL did not freak him out at all. 

stay with it, stress is your enemy, CD4s look great, the meds are definitely working. 

not like they can do a resistance test anyway with a VL that low - so, keep your eye on things, and get back to livin life!

Offline Pippet

  • Member
  • Posts: 135
  • Life is drawing without an eraser.
Re: Why not undetectable?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 11:10:22 AM »
  I can only repeat what everyone else has been telling you, and I am speaking from personal experience.  As you can see by my profile, it has taken me over two years to reach "undetectable".  I worried about it constantly but my doc told me to hang in there and give it a little more time before we switched meds.  I guess he was right.
  It makes it more frustrating when other people are reporting such quick results.  My husband was undetectable after 4 short months.

Be Patient,
Diagnosed Aug. 2006
CD4 246, VL 202,000
Started Truvada/ Viramune 11-23-06
Taken off meds 12-06-06 (Bad Rash)
Started Truvada/ Reyataz, Norvir 1-18-07
Taken off Norvir 3-1-07 (Jaundice)
New doc 3-22-07
CD4 229  VL 1031
My latest cocktail...  Truvada and Kaletra (4-6-07)
CD4 289 VL 350 (5-15-07)
CD4 308 VL 115 (8-06-07)
CD4 349 VL 511 (11-5-07)
CD4 489 VL 383 (2-4-08)
CD4 483 VL <50 (5-6-08) YEAH
CD4 545 VL 108 (9-12-08)
CD4 409 VL <48 (1-27-09) YEAH
CD4 505 VL <48 (5-20-09)
CD4 385 VL <48 (9-15-09)
CD4 609 VL  159 (2-28-10)

Offline Winiroo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,082
  • Positive since 1991
Re: Why not undetectable?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 09:59:17 PM »
The ultra sensitive test measure undetectable as under 50 copies. With the old test you where considered undetectable at under 400 copies.
Your tcells have gone up and so have your percentages. You want a percentage of 20 or more. So that is awesome.
Viral loads fluctuate all the time. Its no big deal. Try not to worry so much about the numbers. Stress doesn't help. As long as you feel good focus on that.  ;D

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 13,386
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Why not undetectable?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2009, 02:11:03 AM »
Hey wow, thanks for all the support! Really appreciate it! Best wishes to all
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx


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