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Author Topic: The Numbers Game...  (Read 4475 times)

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Offline ultimatum2000

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The Numbers Game...
« on: February 04, 2008, 10:46:17 PM »
So, I've been reading these forums for months and I've yet to chime in and say anything.  They have been very helpful though, thanks to everyone that's on here!   ;D  I know that numbers and labs bounce around all the time depending on the person, but man do they always vary that much? lol  I know for a fact that I was negative in 2006 and later in 2007 my numbers are already down to what they are in my signature.  My doctor tells me I must have been infected for a lot longer than that, but I just laugh at him (he's actually a really cool guy) and tell him I know I wasn't because I tested neg. 

Has anyone else experienced a drop like this?  It just seems kinda funny to me because I'm very healthy, taken vitamins and worked out 5 days a weeks ever since I was 21.  Apparantly, the virus doesn't care about that, lol.  Ah, well, I suppose it's a good thing that I'm not taking meds quite yet.  I just keep thinking, in the back of my mind, that I could be taking meds within a year.  Does that seem wierd to anyone that I could be taking meds within 2-3 years after being infected??  I really am an optimistic person but I wanted to see if anyone else is in my situation.. 
2006        Oops...
4/2007     Pos     
6/2007     450     289,000    26.5%
9/2007     493     359,000    16%
1/2008     471     88,000      14%

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The Numbers Game...
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2008, 11:14:42 PM »

We all progress at our own rate and it's not uncommon for the newly infected to have a crash in their numbers early on in the piece. It may well be that your numbers will shoot back up all on their own as your infection stabilises.

It's not commonly understood that the immune system mounts a pretty strong response to HIV in the first year or so and gives the virus a bit of a run for it's money. Unfortunately, given the cell HIV targets (the CD4 cell) this response cannot be sustained and eventually the virus will win.

There is no cut and dried point at when a body should start medication. Many people go for 10 or more years before they need medications, others hit that wall sooner. I myself was infected sometime in 2000 or 2001, was diagnosed in May 2002 and by April 2003, I had a glittering diagnosis of AIDS and was on medications.

Your mileage may vary. Oh, and welcome to the Forums.


Offline milker

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Re: The Numbers Game...
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2008, 11:19:05 PM »
Your numbers require more than just the percentage and the CD4 count. The percentage you are showing is very low, however the CD4 count is acceptable. So this is where you have to look at the other numbers, like the CD3/CD8 percentage, the WBC, and other counts that may explain why your percentage is low.

Your doctor should be knowledgeable in this area and if he thinks that you're okay not going on meds for now, then be it, but I would question him on those numbers, and how he is making a decision based on them.

I have been infected in Feb 2007 and I'm starting meds soon. How people react to the infection is unique and some people will need to go on meds after year, where some others will be fine for more years.

mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

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Offline beachdude2003

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Re: The Numbers Game...
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2008, 03:25:45 PM »
I tested neg in August of 07 and poz. in December of that same year, so I know that I am newley infected.  My first lab work came back last week with a 694 cd4 count.  My viral load still hasn't come back yet.  I did a genotype and phenotype at my first appointment per my request. I have been doing some research that suggest that if you are newly infected, that starting meds sooner may be better.  There is no long term research but they do know that starting at 350 is better or has better results than starting at 200.  I will probably start atripla at the end of the month.
Best of luck to you, R

Offline Bicepguy

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Re: The Numbers Game...
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2008, 02:00:45 PM »
I wont repeat the wise words already said.

The virus does care about working out/staying healthy.  And bare in mind that CD4 changes a great deal every day. It will be depleted by working out, by fighting infections like colds, and by partying hard.  So aim to have your bloods after some rest, with no cold and worry about the trend, not the lows/highs.  I mean the statistical trend - draw a straight line through the various lows and highs and see where it leads.

Starting meds at CD4 of 350 is  the way to go now - it will help increase your rebound figure - the new normal level once the drugs work and you regain immune function.

The % is  low and you should be asking your Dr his/her opinion about that. It may be a blip but do get it checked again in a month.

One of the key issues in starting "earlier" than the older days when a CD4 of 250 was the starting point, is the relatively easier pill burden and better tolerated mix of anti HIV drugs, which means adherence is better and less likely to allow replication/mutation.  Taking one or two pills, just once a day is a very easy task compared to the terrible mix of times/pills/food and side effects our earlier fellow HIVers suffered.

Co-infected HIV/HepC Geno 4. HIV HAART = Truvada/Sustiva, <50 VL, CD4 350-450, 30%.  Vast HCV V before starting Peg Interferon/Ribavarin Nov 2007 - zero VL after weeks.


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