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Author Topic: Increased T-Cells to 1600 - infected but healthy?  (Read 2865 times)

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Offline fixy22

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Increased T-Cells to 1600 - infected but healthy?
« on: October 07, 2007, 05:17:32 AM »
Most amazing thing happend to me. I'm was on the therapy only for about 3-4 years. I was taking Truvada and Viramune and praying a lot... I never had any opportunistic infections. I started the therapy with T cells around 50, following tests were in the area of 500 and VL < 50. Last summer the most peculiar thing happened - my VL went up to 20000 and T-cells to 1600. This was measured in two different tests in two different labs during 1.5 months. Resistance was checked and I'm 'clean' - no resistance to anything...
I know this is strange and I want to use this forum to ask for feedback - anybody has heard about situation like that?

One thing woth mentioning is that my Doc is a part of research team at New York University. They are working now on a project which eveluates benefits of starting treatment early - when immune system is not destroyed yet. They look into posssibility of ability of the immune system to rebuild itsellf when treatment is started early. He said that I might fall into this category.

I was presented with three options - stay on the same drugs, take new combo or take a drug vacation. Since I partially believe that AIDS might be drug-induced I chose the option to take a vacation.

Did anybody hear about similar experiences? I would be very thankful for any feedback...

Take care all!  :)


Offline mesu

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Re: Increased T-Cells to 1600 - infected but healthy?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2007, 10:59:30 AM »

congrats on your results!  i wish i could say i have similiar experience, but i am a newbie here...recently diagnosed. may i ask you how soon did you start your meds once diagnosed?  do you feel there are benefits to start meds early? 

i think i may have to start meds soon and would like to get more info on others' experience.


Jan/Feb 07 - infected :(
Sept3: cd4 162; 13.5% VL 24,000
Oct5: cd4 68 13.6%
Nov6: cd4 205  14.64%
Dec10,07: cd4 188  15.67%  VL: 9900
FEB15,08: cd4 242 18.62%
Mar10/08: cd4 219 15.64%  VL: 7300
May26,08: start Truvada and Sustiva
July 18,08: cd4 255, 18.50%, VL undetectable (<75)
Nov 4,08: cd4 380, 27.14%,
Feb 6,09: cd4 296, 22.7%,
May 26: cd4 351, 27%,
Aug 28: cd4 310, 28%,
Dec 2009: cd4 321, 35.67%,
March 2010: cd4 325, 32%,
June 2010: cd4 385, 29.5%,
Sept 2010: cd4 368, 30.75%,
Feb 2011: cd4 431, 43.1%,
Jun 2011: cd4 433, 30.93%,
Sept 2011: cd4 435,  36 %,
Jan 2012, cd4 467, 33.36%
May 2012: cd4 421, 38.21%,
Sept 2012: cd4 393, 30.23%,
VL: undetectable since July 08

Offline fixy22

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Re: Increased T-Cells to 1600 - infected but healthy?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2007, 01:21:46 PM »
See - I'm hardly experienced here. You didn't mention what are your numbers. I started my therapy as soon as my T cells went down from 700 to below 300 and then 50 at the last test.
My vl was never higher than 30000. Recently I changed doctors - my first one recently retired and this new one ( I go there for about a year ) is an assistant proffesor at New York University. They are currently researching starting treatment rather early than late...

The most important thing is to find a good doctor and trust him/her completely. Both of my doctors said that Truvada-Viramune seems to be a good combination and this is the only one I was on.

With this amazing result I can only hope that it will stay this way.

I wish you a lot of luck - and remember - a little prayer never hurts....  :)

Offline John2038

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Re: Increased T-Cells to 1600 - infected but healthy?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 03:53:24 PM »
Hi !

I believe that nobody will have the answer but the question is definitely VERY interesting.

I have myself a CD4=509 and VL=1732, and I was willing to ask my doc to start the treatment now.
Because I feel its the best option before the immune system is destroy.

As you said, knocking the virus in this way (to get then a so GREAT CD4 -as far I know, 1600 is the upper range, at least accordingly to the standard range specified in my lab test) should allows to take a vacation !

I don't see why not.

I'll discuss this point with my doc.
Others comments would be more than welcome.
Have some of you started the treatment before CD4=500 (lower limit of the standard range) ?

Offline milker

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Re: Increased T-Cells to 1600 - infected but healthy?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 10:01:37 PM »
Yes please discuss this with your doc prior to jumping on treatment, or interrupting treatment based on a post. There are many parameters that have to be taken into account.

mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline risred1

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Re: Increased T-Cells to 1600 - infected but healthy?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 10:42:54 PM »
My understanding is that the current recommended lines of treatment involve CD4 level to be 350 and VL 100,000.

Regardless, the 350 line was an arbitrary line splitting the difference between a camp that promoted treatment at 200 and a camp that wanted 500.

The reason why 350 is currently adhered to is that Doctors are trying to keep people off treatment as treatment has its own problems.

Problem 1) being on treatment begins the HIV process of mutation. Doctors were of the mindset that there were essentially 3 drug combos before serious resistance would present serious treatment problems. The idea is to wait as long as possible, to then give you as long as possible to be on those 3 combos.

Problem 2) toxicity of treatment. Treatment has/had serious side effects.

With the advanced of better more tolerable treatment, and with more options at the back end of resistance, and evidence that CD4 counts tend to double from your dmarc into treatment, (200 goes to 400, 350 goes to 700 and 500 goes to 1000 - (these are some study results - everyones results vary!) There is momentum to the 500 camp. Additionally, there is also evidence that the better you cd4 count is when you start, the better you tolerate treatment.

But I'm still looking at the 350 line, because thats what my original expectations were set at. I'm kinda stuck emotionally to that number, since I'm already under 500 and have been every since I've been diagnosed. My doc says I'm in a stabilized  period in my infection where my CD4 is fairly steady and my VL is as well. While not an elite controller, I'm just hanging out waiting to see how long i can hold out. And my specialist is hoping I can last until Integrase Inhibitors are accepted as front line treatment, as he believes they are very promising in control and tolerability.

The Hope is that the first combo is something you can take for 5 or 6 years before having to change. That does not always work out for everyone. Once again, early starters seem to have an advantage here.

My doc is still with me, however, in trying to hold off for the reasons I stated above. Certainly this is something to discuss with your doctor, but I really believe the decision is up to you on how you look at treatment, the pro's and con's to starting early versus later.

Good Luck to your decision to to all of us in making this decision.
risred1 - hiv +
02/07 CD4 404 - 27% - VL 15k
10/07 CD4 484 - 31% - VL 45k
05/08 CD4 414 - 26% - VL 70k
01/09 CD4 365 - 23% - VL 65k
05/09 CD4 291 - 23% - VL 115k - Started Meds - Reyataz/Truvada
06/09 CD4 394 - ?% - VL 1200 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
07/09 CD4 441 - ?% - VL 118 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
09/09 CD4 375 - ?% - VL Undetectable - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
12/09 CD4 595 - ?% - VL Undetectable - VIT D 34 - Reyataz/Truvada/Norvir

Offline John2038

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« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 01:56:37 PM by John2038 »

Offline newbie76

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Re: Increased T-Cells to 1600 - infected but healthy?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2007, 02:40:53 PM »

Since I partially believe that AIDS might be drug-induced I chose the option to take a vacation.

Can you explain what do you mean by that?
25th Apr 07: The worst day of my life
27th Apr 07: cd4 202 14%
30th Apr 07: cd4 126 18% VL 110000
19th May 07: Started Truvada/Sustiva
20th Jun 07: cd4 218 25% VL 435
13th Aug 07: cd4 374 20% VL 64
20th Dec 07: cd4 435 24% VL <50
20th Oct 08: cd4 725 31% VL <50
30th Nov 09: cd4 725 30% VL <50
01st Nov 10: cd4 755 33% VL<50
11th Nov 11: cd4 754 32% VL<50
01st May 12: cd4 864 40% VL<50
01st May 13: cd4 615 VL 609 :-/
14th May 13: VL <50


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