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Author Topic: HGH - HOMEOPATIC VERSION - DID ANYONE TRY ???  (Read 4536 times)

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Offline panda

  • Member
  • Posts: 224
« on: March 23, 2007, 02:22:57 AM »
Hi  ALL , I read about this "Homepopatics HGH" comes in pills wich combined with 8 amino acid.. its sound very promessing, taking care of mucsle loss and nbone density , taking care of fat accumulation ... and its pills and all natural , i have added the below link , i would like to know if any one of you tried it and what do u think? should we try it ?


Offline pozniceguy

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  • Posts: 1,232
  • Niceguy Dallas
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2007, 07:07:34 PM »
I use Serostim ( HGH ) which requires  a sub-c injection.....after a long discussion with DR and a hormonal specialist  the result was that no digestable form of "HGH" provides any demonstrated useful effect... In other words all you will get from this type of "HGH" is a bunch of testimonials with no actual scientific results...no properly conducted trials  etc...all "testimonials" 
the Dr's opinions are that the substance is destroyed by the digestive system before it gets to the right place.....only direct injection works........  If you want real evidence ask some of the "juicers" at the Gym...they use injections because it works  ( illegal but they get it somewhere) 
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
Le stelle la notte sono grandie luminose, nel cuore profondo del Texas

Offline panda

  • Member
  • Posts: 224
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2007, 02:14:09 AM »
well , i am not so sure , i think i will ask my dr. if i  can try it for a month and see if anything is changed even with my general feeling... its says there that it helps body for loosing the fat accumulation and it helps build the muscle... so I don't know ... I will talk with my dr.
I was thinking of getting the real thing but since i am thinking of getting pregnent and working on it i don't think its a good idea start with these ninjections...

Offline risred1

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  • Posts: 419
  • My Source for Supps - www.newyorkbuyersclub.org
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2007, 12:04:04 PM »
Below I posted an interesting commentary on Homeopathic HGH which I think is useful in understanding what Homeopathy is, and therefore, would discount the idea of Homeopathic HGH.

Essentially if reflects my understanding of what Homeopathy is. It is from a site that is stating claims of other amino acids that stimulate your own HGH production.
I think the definition is useful however, even though claims of increasing your own HGH should be regarded with caution.

I don't offer this as a substitution. I really think you should rely on sites that specialize in HIV support such as the newyorkbuyersclub.org. I know I sound like a broken record regarding this site, but there they have at least provide documentation about the supplements they sell and a rational for selling them, and is a non profit and exists to help primarily those of us with HIV. I see nothing there about stimulating your own HGH.

I really have to resist drawing conclusions regarding your recent posting activity. But I am concerned that you are trying to work around the fundamentals of living with HIV by looking for "stuff" to fix the side effects of HIV and Meds.

I personally believe in supplementation, but I'm leaveraging advice from the newyorkbuyersclub and Dr. Jon kaiser, who present to the HIV community their findings on what principles seem to work for the majority of people with HIV.

My HIV specialist, who doesn't study supplements in the least, stated this to me. The Body actually does a fair job at resisting HIV, just not completely, which ultimately leads to gradual incapacitation of the immune system.

Those advocating supplementation are proposing ideas that by providing "help" to the immune system, we can sustain that fight longer and better.

So what helps the immune system?


Positive Thinking - Acceptance of HIV - Stress Management
A balanced diet using the right fats and low in sugar and simple carbs, and rich in Protein and B Vitamins
Supplements to help the immune system
Digestive Care with Probiotics and Glutamine
Regular Screening for intestinal parasites

And adherence to your Medicines, if meds are necessary.

When you start reaching for things like HGH and other hormonal treatments, it is to treat specific conditions as a result of HIV, Meds. Human Growth Hormone has been shown to help people who are suffering from wasting from HIV and Meds. If you need HGH, this is something clearly you need to be working with your doctor.

I really suggest you have to work the fundamentals before reaching for exotic solutions such as homeopathic HGH, which, to be honest, doesn't make any sense to me.


What is homeopathy?

Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines Homeopathy as follows:

"a system of medical practice that treats a disease especially by the administration of minute doses of a remedy that would in healthy persons produce symptoms similar to those of the disease."

Who invented homeopathic medicine?

The discovery and development of homeopathic medicine is credited to Samuel Hahnemann (1755-1843), a German physician. Hahnemann is credited with coming up with a system called the Law of Similars. This system goes back to an ancient Greek medical belief that "like cures like".

How is homeopathic medicine supposed to work?

Homeopathic medicine is based on the principal that if a herb causes a set of symptoms in a healthy person, it can also cure a patient with those same set of symptoms. For example, when Hahnemann practiced, cinchona was the treatment used to treat malaria. One of the symptoms of malaria is periodic fevers. Hahnemann found that if you gave cinchona to a healthy person, it caused periodic fevers. This is where he came up with the Law of Similars. He deduced that the best way to treat an illness was to give the patient a herb that would cause the symptoms of the illness in a healthy person - like cures like. This approach was very different than what we now call "standard western medicine", in which therapeutic amounts of drugs or supplements are used to treat and cure an illness. In fact, Hahnemann coined the term - "allopathy" to define traditional medicine. He called allopathy the system of medical practice which aims to combat disease by the use of remedies which produce effects different from those produced by the special disease treated.

Hahnemann then went about giving herbs or plants to healthy volunteers and documenting what symptoms the volunteer felt. This process of determining what set of symptoms a plant caused was called a drug "proving". The role then of a homeopath is to determine what symptoms the patient is experiencing and then try to match that to a drug proving. If the homeopath can find a plant or herb that will produce the patient's set of symptoms in a healthy adult, he/she gives the patient a homeopathic remedy of that plant.

Interesting to note that in homeopathic medicine they do not believe in illnesses. The concern is with your set of symptoms and finding an herb whose drug proving matches those symptoms. If you have a high fever and headache, they do not care if it is due to virus, infection or anything else - they just know they need to find a drug proving that produces high fever and headaches.

What is a "homeopathic remedy"

So far we have covered one of the two major principles of homeopathy - like cures like.  The second major principle is that less is more, and we mean a lot less! Hahnemann found that the more diluted a herbal solution, the more effective it became. This of course goes strongly against western medicine. Still, Hahnemann believed that in order to make a remedy more potent, you needed to go through a series of serial dilutions. Homeopathic remedies are often based in water or alcohol and have gone through a series of dilutions.

What does 10X or 20C dilution mean in the ingredient list for a homeopathic remedy?

The number represents how many stages of dilutions are performed and the letter (X or C) represents how diluted the solution is in each stage. The "X" after a the number represents a 10 time dilution. The "C" after the number represents a 100 times dilution. So, let's say you had a homeopathic product that had a 10C dilution of HGH. Just to keep things simple let's assume you are using a bucket which holds 100 ounces. Here are the steps to produce the 10C solution of HGH:

Step 1: The first step would be to put 1 ounce of human growth hormone (HGH) into 99 ounces of water. You then mix this solution - and you have just done your first dilution.

Step 2: You take 1 ounce of that diluted substance from Step 1 and put it into 99 ounces of water. This is what the "C" stands for - you are doing a 100 times dilution in each step. Mix the solution.

Step 3: You take 1 ounce of that diluted substance from Step 2 and put it into 99 ounces of water. Mix the solution.

Step 4: You take 1 ounce of that diluted substance from Step 3 and put it into 99 ounces of water. Mix the solution.

This continues on in the same manner until you reach Step 10 - your 10th level dilution.

So, what do you end up with in the end...

A solution that is 10-20 HGH.

Or, our 100 ounce bucket of solution in the 10th stage would be made of:

.000000000000000000001 ounces of HGH and 99.999999999999999999999 ounces of water.

Remember, this is just a 10C solution, many homeopathic solutions are 20C or greater.

Can you give me some perspective on what these small numbers represent in the real world?

The odds of winning the Lottery are about 1 in 3 million.

With a 10C dilution of homeopathic HGH you are over 1 Trillion times more likely to win the lottery than find a molecule of HGH in the solution.

Those numbers seem incredibly small - how can homeopathy work?

This is a question of great debate. Some homeopaths claims that any herb or plant can leave its imprint on the solution, even though the herb or plant is basically non existent after all the dilutions. The idea is that the water or alcohol that the solution is made of can capture the imprint or energy of the herb and that is all that is needed to produce results. Just as eastern practices such as acupuncture and Tai Chai have more to do with energy flow in the body, homeopathy follows these same lines and tries to restore energy balance to the body.

Do to the non-western traditional basis of homeopathy there are many people who dismiss it is garbage. On the other hand, there are people who swear by the powers of homeopathy. Here at Advice-HGH we are willing to keep an open mind to homeopathy as a practice, but the way some companies are marketing homeopathic HGH remedies is dishonest.

What dishonest claims are companies making about homeopathic HGH?

Here are some claims we have seen and our response to them:

   •    Claim: Our homeopathic HGH contains real HGH and that makes it better than HGH enhancers!

First HGH is a large hormone, that can not be absorbed in any oral solution (spray, pill or powder). However, for the sake of argument let's assume that HGH could be absorbed orally. As we just illustrated the amount of HGH in any homeopathic remedy is incredibly small.  In fact, any homeopathic HGH solution that uses greater than a 12C dilution of HGH will not have a single atom of HGH left in the product. The reason is, after 12 dilutions you end up with a 10-24 concentration. The number of atoms in a mole is about 6 x 10-23, this means after a 12C dilution there will not be a single atom of the HGH left in the solution.

Now, we know that in homeopathy "less is more", so not having a single atom of HGH might not be a problem to someone who truly believes in homeopathy. Our issue is with the marketing claim "our product has real HGH". This leads people into thinking they are getting HGH just like Dr. Rudman injected in his famous study. This is not the case. You are getting an alcohol supplement that once came in contact with HGH. Think of it this way, if we dumped a teaspoon of real HGH into a lake and then bottled some water from that lake with the claim, "Contains real HGH - drink our water - the only one with real HGH!" would you feel we were being open and honest with you?

   •    Claim: Using homeopathic HGH is the best way to increase HGH levels.

Taking a step back, we see there is a major problem with using homeopathic HGH to increase HGH levels - it does not fit with homeopathic principals. Remember, the idea of homeopathy is to use a herb that produces symptoms that you are trying to cure. Think about why you might take HGH - you may have a lack of energy and trouble losing weight. A homeopathy would look at these symptoms and give you something that causes lack of energy and weight gain in a healthy adult. HGH does not cause these symptoms, so it does not make sense to use it in a homeopathic remedy to cure these symptoms.

   •    Claim: Don't waste your money on HGH enhancers or Secretagogues - use our product that contains real HGH

This one really drives us crazy. We have already discussed why their claim to have real HGH is bogus do to the dilutions homeopathic HGH goes through. However, what gets us about this claim is that they imply homeopathic HGH replaces HGH in the body rather than enhance human growth hormone production. Any Homeopath will tell you that the point of a homeopathic remedy is not to replace a substance in the body (they are too diluted to do this), rather to trigger the body to react in a certain way. Therefore, by definition the only way a homeopathic remedy could work is by stimulating the body to make more human growth hormone. This means homeopathic HGH by definition is an enhancer or secretagogue, and this is exactly what these companies claim do not work. As you can see, nothing about the above statement makes sense.

In the end, there are only two ways for any person to increase human growth hormone levels. The first is to inject a therapeutic dose of recombinant HGH. The second way is to stimulate your body to produce more HGH. Anyone who is selling a product that does not require a prescription is working under the second method. Homeopathic, allopathic, spray, pill, powder, patch - does not matter - to be effective they must stimulate the body to make more HGH. It then becomes a matter of determining what product does the best job of stimulating the body to produce more growth hormone.

So, are all homeopathic HGH solutions bogus?

No, homeopathic HGH remedies are not all bogus. Some follow the general principles of homeopathy and do not claim to have real HGH in the solution. Our feeling is that HGH enhancers based on significant amounts of amino acids (such as Secretagogue-1 and Sytropin) are more proven at increasing HGH levels, but people who believe in homeopathy may want to try a homeopathic HGH.

We do recommend that you avoid any homeopathic HGH product that makes claims about containing "real HGH" and comparing their product to HGH injections. These products are not based on homeopathy principals and just try to confuse people into buying their Restorageny claiming they have "real HGH".

If I don't want to use these homeopathic HGH products, what do your recommend?

The most scientific studies have been done on using therapeutic amounts of amino acids (5 - 7 grams) to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more HGH. Products such as Secretagogue-1 and Sytropin fall into this category. These products are called dietary supplements, do not require a prescription and are not homeopathic.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2007, 10:32:36 PM by risred1 »
risred1 - hiv +
02/07 CD4 404 - 27% - VL 15k
10/07 CD4 484 - 31% - VL 45k
05/08 CD4 414 - 26% - VL 70k
01/09 CD4 365 - 23% - VL 65k
05/09 CD4 291 - 23% - VL 115k - Started Meds - Reyataz/Truvada
06/09 CD4 394 - ?% - VL 1200 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
07/09 CD4 441 - ?% - VL 118 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
09/09 CD4 375 - ?% - VL Undetectable - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
12/09 CD4 595 - ?% - VL Undetectable - VIT D 34 - Reyataz/Truvada/Norvir


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