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Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: thunter34 on September 29, 2007, 11:41:42 pm

Title: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: thunter34 on September 29, 2007, 11:41:42 pm
I'm not sure what to title this or what to say.  I just spoke with Michael's neighbor, who just told me that he passed away sometime between yesterday and today.  He hanged himself.  Evidently, this was not the first such attempt, but it was the successful one.  The coroner has just left his home, and they will now be performing an autopsy.  Funeral arrangements will be forthcoming after the results of that. 

I'm not sure what I feel right now as I type this, other than I need you people to be here now- on the receiving end of this post- more than I ever have.  I've got this mixture of anguish and anger, and I am not sure how to process this.

He was extraordinarily stressed in recent weeks due to health concerns and other issues.  He was uncertain about the status of what little work he had generated for himself to supplement the disability check he received.  The word was that someone had reported him for the work and it was being looked into- a story that was still unverified when last we spoke.  He was under extreme distress, worrying about finances and being able to keep his home.  He was also anxious about the pending results from the tests he had (that I took him to) last Monday. 

I don't know what to think or feel.  He had told me that he really needed me in the last week or two.  I was not as available as I had been.  To put it bluntly:  I was still riding high from my trip to San Francisco, and the cold & hard truth of it is that I was not ready to land back into the muck of our reality.  I put him on hold, and I don't know how to feel about that right now.  But, damn it- this cannot rest on my shoulders.  We had only been involved for a little over two months.  I don't think he would have meant for me to take it as such, but the finality of this makes such thoughts all but inescapable.  I was calling this evening to tell him I would be by to see him tomorrow evening.

His phone had been cut off for a few days while he was struggling to get the bill paid up.  I had called him through his neighbor's cell phone Wednesday night.  She told me she would let him know by Thursday that I had called.  I found out tonight that she had been working late and hadn't seen him until she found him today.  So he did not know that I had actually tried to make contact throughout the week to check in on him.  But I don't know that it would have made any difference.

Michael.  Michael, what did you do?
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: milker on September 29, 2007, 11:58:24 pm
Not sure what to say, Tim. Don't blame it on yourself for sure.

Love,

Milker.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Jody on September 29, 2007, 11:58:45 pm
Dear Tim...I am so terribly sorry to hear about Michael...It's so sad he took this drastic action and hurt so many others who loved him as well, he must have been badly hurt, please forgive him.

We will be here for you if you need us to talk to.  Be well yourself and cherish Michael in your memories.  

Jody    :'(
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Miss Philicia on September 30, 2007, 12:00:04 am
First of all I don't really know what to say in such a situation, but I'll give it a go.  As this was not the first attempt to do this, you can't look at it as if you really contributed to the situation, as it would have occurred anyway.  He was not, as you related in previous posts, your boyfriend, but someone you were in the process of growing close to and trying to help in every way possible.  You reached out to him, but he was already down a dark road.  I know you're probably looking at it that way, or want to -- and I encourage you to do this.  Please do not carry this weight on your own shoulders.  I know that this doesn't make the situation much easier, as it's entirely unpleasant for sure.  The bottom line is that you went away on a trip and took some to recoup, not cognizant of what was going on his Michael's head.  A trip for which you had planned previous to having met him.  And you're correct, he would not have wanted you to take what he did as some fault of your own.

He made this decision, and most likely you only know the tip of the iceberg of his torment.  He has a bit of peace now, and I suppose you should look at this -- difficult as it may be -- as his own burden being lifted.  We all know that this wretched disease is no joke, certainly further down the road as it is for many of us.

I'm not sure what you have to tap into down in Atlanta, but if this begins to overwhelm you I hope you continue to communicate about it here or locate someone for some one-one-one sessions.  We are all here for you, that is for sure.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Queen Tokelove on September 30, 2007, 12:11:12 am
Thunter Bunny--

All I can say is that I am truly sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how you would be feeling right about now, prolly a few different ways. I would have to agree with Philly and say that this is not your fault. He had made the attempt before but it is sad that he chose this route when just getting to know you. Whatever it is you are feeling, just let it out, don't keep it in. We are all here for you... :-*
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: ademas on September 30, 2007, 12:20:15 am
oh Tim, I'm so very sorry.
Suicide leaves so much pain behind, and so many haunting questions.
My love and thoughts are with you.

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Matty the Damned on September 30, 2007, 12:34:40 am
Timmy,

Alas Matty the Damned knows your pain here. He's keeping you in his daily anxieties.

:-*

MtD
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: MOONLIGHT1114 on September 30, 2007, 01:02:16 am
Hi Tim~

I was so surprised to read of this.  You must be so confused right now, but surely you must know this isn't something to blame yourself for.  Michael's pain and worries ran deep, way deep, maybe too deep for even someone as caring as you to pull him back from.  Its such a shame to read that this wasn't his first attempt, that he had gone down this road before, contemplating suicide.

I know that if I were you, I would be extremely overwhelmed right now.  I cherish the new friends that come into my life these days, there aren't many, and I often find myself putting them first if they need my help.  I often give advice and help where I can.  You were really trying to help Michael get on his feet and to take care of himself, if I remember correctly from your other posts.  You know you are a good person, you know this isn't your fault, and sadly, maybe you know that there was nothing that you could have done to prevent this.  When someone is that depressed and that serious about taking their own life....well, its very frustrating to try to show them that things really can be alright. 

I feel your struggle right now, and I wish you didn't have to be dealing with so many emotions tonight.  This will take awhile before it leaves you.  Please reach out to us, let us know your thoughts.  I know you were so happy having just returned from SF and I am sorry that this situation has dampened your spirits.  Remember that your intentions were good towards Michael, and that what you did while you knew him during two short months was to help him.  It wasn't your job to save him, it just wasn't.  I hope that you can understand that the seed was already planted, the despair was already there, since you said Michael had attempted this before.

I'm sending a big hug to you tonight.  I wish I was there, I wish we were all there, to be with you in person to talk about this.  Remember your friends from AMG SF and know that they are all here for you.  I hope that you'll be OK.

~Cindy
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Oceanbeach on September 30, 2007, 01:30:43 am
Dear Tim,

I had a friend in L.A., who we all knew was suicidal.  His HIV status, his relationship and his family all added up to his suicide.

On Valentines day one year, his mother was in the neighborhood bar with her son, some friends and we were talking.  Mom, said her husband was going to kill himself that day so she... brought his gun to the bar.  I saw the revolver in her bag.  Her husband had a rifle in the closet and with some string and a toe, he managed to take his life that day.

The same husband had another son by a different wife.  That son took his life on the following Valentines Day (overdose).  The following VD, I got a call from Chrissy, he invited me to come to see his new apartment, which was around the corner from my house.

He was all moved in with his collection of Marilyn Monroe things all proudly displayed in his room.  We went out for a drink that morning, and on to find someone who would do his taxes for that year.  The tax preparation plans were the part that threw me... Someone planninng a suicide does not do their taxes first.

At 4:00 Am on Valentines day, my doorbell would not stop ringing so I shut off the switch and went back to sleep.  The next morning, official vehicles were lined up from his door to Ocean Drive.  Chrissy had died from an overdose.  Was there anything, I could have done to save his life?  I did not answer the door, I shut off the bell.

I packed the guilt around everywhere because... I have been to multiple colleges, graduated and all and trust me, I knew everything.  After the funeral, I was feeling like shit and swimming in J&B...   Onr thing I didn't know was... It was not Chris at my door that night, it was Larry, he left his car at my house and walked home from the bars.  I guess my point is, no matter how well you know a person, if they should make the decision to take their own life, we as individuals do not have the ability to see through the smoke screen.

This Michael says, remember that Michael in the kindest memories and move on with your own life.  Have the best day
Michael  
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Blixer on September 30, 2007, 01:38:20 am
Tim,  I'm so sorry.  I know this is difficult.  Don't blame yourself.  I'll be keeping you in my thoughts.  You have lots of friends and support here.

David

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Robert on September 30, 2007, 01:54:13 am
tim.

I'm so sorry about your friend.  Please don't shoulder the blame for Michael's fall.  I'm sure he's been reaching out for a long, long time and in the short time you knew him you did your best.  YOu're a kind, gentle, caring and funny guy who offers so much to us here at the forums.  Try not to be so hard on yourself.  WE need you here.  

robert
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: thunter34 on September 30, 2007, 02:01:36 am
thank you to everyone who has replied so far.  i've been just hovering over the thread reading it over and over for the last two hours or so.  part of me just keeps thinking i'm going to blink and it won't be printed there, & that tomorrow i will call and just reach him on the phone. 

i love each and every one of you.  i really and truly do- and i so appreciate you being here for me now. 

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: xyahka on September 30, 2007, 02:05:08 am
Thunder, i am really sorry for this you are going through. At the same time i agree with eveybody else... you should not carry this on your shoulder, cause this was not your fault. When we are sent to earth, we are all made responsible for our actions, and none else can take or should take responsibility for that.

I know most of us have needed some help in some time, i know we all have been down the dark road at least once and have found other's hands and words useful, though i know... there are things others cannot do for us... No one could keep on his feet someone who does not want to be standing anymore... pittifully same applies when it refers to the desire of keep on living.

It was his decission.... not yours, and despite you feel responsible... the truth is that there was nothing you could do... what you could do.. you did and we and God knows that... all the rest was in his hands and not yours... he took his decission.

I know what i say does not help much right now, but with the time... you will realise you gave him all you could, none could have done more to help him... just himself. Send you big hugs,

Juan Carlos ... touched.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: StrongGuy on September 30, 2007, 02:47:13 am
Oh god man my deepest sympathy. I've had to cope with sudden death hitting very close to home and just know that time and talking it out is what helps wrap you mind around the shock and range of emotions.

I had a some unfounded guilt, which is common in situations like this, and the best advice I got is to remember that you did the best you knew how to do for that person but remember you are only human -- you're not omnipotent.  You can't see into the future. Don't for a second put any of this on you - it's the mental turmoil/depression that led to this tragedy.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: anniebc on September 30, 2007, 02:58:31 am
Dearest Tim

Quote
I've got this mixture of anguish and anger, and I am not sure how to process this.

We never know how something like this is going to affect us until it actually happens and it's not something we can prepare ourselves for.

It can also leave us feeling confused about what we may consider strange reactions to it all ..anguish and anger are a natural part of our grieving process.

Don't forget to give yourself time to grieve over your loss Tim, you don't have to do it right now, you will know when the time comes.. it's important for you to have closure, and by saying goodbye to Michael, and as hard as it may be, accepting his decision will give you the closure you need...it just takes time.

I agree with Robert, you did what you could to help him..please don't blame yourself for this.

(((((hugs))))
Jan :'(
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Buckmark on September 30, 2007, 03:09:06 am
Tim,

I think that one of the most frustrating things about suicide, based on the experience with my mother's suicide, is the unanswered questions.  You likely will never know precisely why your friend decided to take his own life, but you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out why (or at least, that's what I had done for a long time).  It certainly speaks to your care and compassion as a human being that you feel you might have been able to do something to prevent it.  But as others have pointed out below, the reality is that it was his decision.

No one can shoulder the burden of someone else's life.  We all have our hands full with our own.  I'm sure you were a good friend to him, and I'm sure he knew that.  While it is normal to feel guilty or confused abour this initially, don't let that eat you up.  I did so with my mother, and paid a dear price.   I can't count the times I have said to myself "If only I had ..." or "why didn't I...", but that line of questioning and reason is specious.  You have lots of friends here who can help you, including myself.   Of course, a professional therapist or counselor could be a very good resource to help you come to terms with this as well. 

Words can't express how sorry am I about your friend, and what you must be dealing with.  Don't hesitate to contact me if I can help -- I'm here for you, as are all your other friends here.

Love,

Henry
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: englishgirl on September 30, 2007, 04:27:39 am
tim honey

im so sorry to read this. im not really sure what i can add as the others have done a great job of talking sense in a situation where nothing seems to make any sense. i wish i was near enough to give you a big hug and a shoulder to cry on.

i think the most important thing for you to do at the moment is to not think that anything you could have done might have changed the eventual outcome. the fact that this was not his first attempt shows that this was not a snap decision. you have to accept that you will always have some unanswered questions about this situation, but you have to believe that although you may never understand completely the events of the last day or so, nothing you could have done would permanently have stopped michael if he felt this was his destiny.

once again i send you lots of love and hugs. look after yourself and keep talking to us, or better still a professional, if you need to
you are very special and dear to me
xxxxx
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: water duck on September 30, 2007, 04:39:23 am
time and again you have SHOW your generosity and caring spirits here and it is much appreciated.

We are all authors of our destinies, if he decided to write his last chapter that way; we just need to respect that. (well that is the hard part, we still around)

Please DO NOT try to carry all the cares of the world upon yours shoulders, give those poor shoulders a rest.

I wish you well.

Wd
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: fearless on September 30, 2007, 04:41:05 am
hey Timmy.
This is so sad. Let yourself grieve and go through the rollercoaster of emotions you are having. You reached out and cared for this guy, like the truly compassionate man you are. You cared and still do. It's just sad.

Peace to you matey.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: next2u on September 30, 2007, 05:04:27 am
Hello Tim,

I just want to echo the general sentiment in the room - this is not your fault. You did what you could and you also have to take care of yourself. If the questions keep haunting you, the what if's and I should haves, be sure to counter them with what you DID DO and the fact that you cared for him. You were there for him, but unfortunately so were other things that you had no control over. Hey man, if you need us, we are here for you. We will also be strong for you.

-d



edited by Ann to remove personal information
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: DanielMark on September 30, 2007, 06:00:20 am
Tim,

My condolences to you. Regardless of the whys and wherefores, it would seem your friend was unable to carry on but you can. Suicide is the ultimate selfish act, with little or no regard for those left behind. Grieve yes, but while you do, know that none of this is your fault.

Daniel

* edited for clarity
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: manchesteruk on September 30, 2007, 06:08:39 am
Hey Tim,

I'm so sorry to hear about this.  I never really know what to say in these kind of situations.  Just please don't blame yourself for this and know that we are all here for you.

Chris x
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: J.R.E. on September 30, 2007, 06:10:14 am
TIm,

My deepest condolences go out to you also. I know this is a difficult time for you, Just try to be strong !



Take care of yourself---------Ray
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Cliff on September 30, 2007, 06:18:18 am
Hi Tim,

I'm so sorry that this has happened.  Don't be afraid to rely on your friends and family during this time and if possible, see a professional/counselor to help sort out your feelings.

Hang in there,

Cliff
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Dachshund on September 30, 2007, 06:41:42 am
Damn Timmy I just don't know what to say. Believe me I know the mixed up feelings you are having right now. I know.

I am a pm, a cell, a skype away, whenever you need me. Six hours by car if that's what it takes. You're always in my thoughts dear one.

Love,
Hal
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Nadine on September 30, 2007, 07:05:08 am
Oh Dear Tim, this brings tears to my eyes.  I'm so very sorry to hear about Michael, I can only imagine the pain you're feeling now.  We are all here for you sweetie!  Stay strong.

Much Love,
Nadine
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Ann on September 30, 2007, 07:12:33 am
I'm so very sorry to hear this, Tim. Hang in there hun.

Thinking of you...

Hugs,
Ann
xxx
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: frenchpat on September 30, 2007, 07:22:24 am
Tim,

this is very sad news.
You are not responsible for his last act, but you are responsible for how you will deal with this and recover, so please take good care of yourself.

Pat

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: BT65 on September 30, 2007, 07:38:56 am
Dearest Tim:

I am so, so sorry to hear about this.  There is nothing you could have done.  Suicide is usually thought out, so I'm sure he was planning to do this without giving you any indication of it.  You are very much in my thoughts, and I will carry you throughout the day.
Love you-
Betty
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Jerry71 on September 30, 2007, 07:52:45 am
Hey Tim sorry this had to happen to your friend. If you need someone to talk too were always here to listen.  :-*
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: megasept on September 30, 2007, 09:06:40 am
Tim: Heartfelt condolences to everyone affected.

-megasept

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Dragonette on September 30, 2007, 10:30:22 am
Hi Tim,

I am very sorry for your loss.

Philly said it well I think, we can help others but we can't save them from themeslves if they are determined. It sounds like you did all that you could.

Take good care,

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Dan J. on September 30, 2007, 11:04:50 am
Tim,

I am so very sorry for your loss.   I am thinking of you.


Dan
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: emeraldize on September 30, 2007, 11:32:09 am
Good Morning Tim

Hoping the sun is out where you are and that you were able to get some sleep. Restful sleep will be key for you as you move through the inevitable grieving.

E-hugs abound here. Are you are within range of some warm hugs?
I hope so.

When you're ready, there are books and groups that will make this time clearer and softer for you.

Love
Em
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: rick21007 on September 30, 2007, 11:34:16 am
Tim---brings back memories of a person I was dating and cared very much about who suicided.  My experience is when people hit that downward spiral where they see suicide as the only option to intolerable suffering, they cut themselves off from the people around them.  It is such a helpless feeling when you see it happening, if you even do.  Suicide rates among gay people is 3 times the national average.  All I am saying here is that is touches many of us and it is a tragic reality.
Grief is the hardest emotion to live with but it teaches us what is important in life and what is not.  It teaches us to seize the day and to live in the moment, because this is all we ever really have--especially us!!  Take care.

Rick
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Andy Velez on September 30, 2007, 11:57:02 am
Dear Tim,

I'm very sorry about your friend. Your feelings are whatever they are so I think it's pointless to say "don't feel guilty," if you're having some of that. But no matter what your feelings are, the only life you are truly responsible for is your own and not for anyone else's. That's very hard to accept sometimes. And as you know managing one's own is a fulltime job and definitely not easy.

May he rest in peace. I'm sorry he couldn't find a way to get past the hard times he was having. In my experience anyone who really wants to go is going to do it no matter what anyone else does at any given moment.

You can still say everything to him that you want to. Just do it privately and say it all.

You're a good guy, Tim. A decent and loving man. Anyone who knows you here knows that. You had what you had with your friend. Just keep on going, buddy.

Wish I could say more but I would dumbly only want you to "feel better," when actually you ought to feel exactly however you feel. ...and still keep going.

My best to you.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: northernguy on September 30, 2007, 12:21:42 pm
Tim, I can only echo what others have said.  Don't blame the time you took for your self at AMG as somehow being part of the problem.  It sounds like your friend was in a place nobody could help with.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: bear60 on September 30, 2007, 12:31:23 pm
Tim
I want to express my condolences as well. Having  someone close to you die in this manner is very difficult.  One of my best friends and someone I lived with briefly, hung himself in San Diego after moving there around 1990. I still dont know why he did it. But I have one of his paintings and keep fond memories of a road trip the two of us took to Washington DC.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: bryonut on September 30, 2007, 12:42:46 pm
Rev,

I am so sorry to hear about Michael. I experienced something like this a few years back. Its such a strange and painful feeling.

Know that my name appears on that long list of those who love and care about you.

bry
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: cocoboogie on September 30, 2007, 01:07:24 pm
Tim,

This story has really touched me.  You are one of the first people on the forum that reached out to me about getting into healthcare.

I can tell from your posts and replies you are a very caring person.  I am so sorry to hear about your friend.  I firmly believe that his life was better once he met you. 

Suicide is a strange and unusual beast.  I must admit, I try to maintain an upbeat and happy appearance but deep down I have thoughts of ending it all.
Somedays I think it is silly and can laugh at myself for having such thoughts.  Other days, I slip into a dark hole and just want to disappear.

Micheal's action was not your fault.  Please dont beat yourself up about it.  I am sure he knew you had his best interest at heart.  You are too kind to allow this darken your spirit.

I hope you accept the bright light you gave Micheal these last few months.  His decision was not based on a lack of support/understanding from you but rather his own thoughts of how to handle his current situation. 

Tim, please dont allow let unfortunate event prevent you from reaching out to help others.  Trust me, your words alone have help me overcome a few of my dark days.

Take Care
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: thunter34 on September 30, 2007, 01:14:29 pm
Thank you to everyone posting here.  Good morning, I suppose, at one in the afternoon.  I had to take some rather heavy sedation to knock myself out as night was nearing morning- and fitful dreams throughout.

Hal, I see that you have called me.  I will return your call shortly.  I'm just not up to speaking yet.  

I do have to place a call to Michael's neighbor.  I need to find out some things- like what happens now to the animals?  There are two dogs and two cats that need to be cared for.  I don't know how I can care for them (especially the large lab puppy), but I've got to make sure some suitable arrangments are made for them.  

I'm probably going to take the trip over to his place today.  I need to talk with his neighbor and get more detail about what actually went down.  I also likely have things still over at his place.  

Again, thanks to all...and Hal, I will talk to you in just awhile.  Love you all.

T
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Dachshund on September 30, 2007, 01:17:36 pm
Whenever you're ready. Do what you need to do, I ain't going anywhere.

xxx
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: joyluckclub on September 30, 2007, 01:22:54 pm
Thunter,

I'll be thinking about you in this time of grief....
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: HealthyMomma on September 30, 2007, 02:33:27 pm
I really dont know what to say other than I am so sorry for your loss! Many hugs being sent your way....
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: allanq on September 30, 2007, 02:44:40 pm
Dear Tim,

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend Michael.  You are a very caring and good person and I wish I knew some way to comfort you.

Allan
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Iggy on September 30, 2007, 04:49:54 pm
  But, damn it- this cannot rest on my shoulders.

Nor should it. 

I was one who was once with the rope (so to speak) around my neck and speaking from utter, naked honesty - there is everyone in the world to blame in tandem with no one in the world being able to save you when you are at that point.

I'm sorry for what has happened to him and I know the thoughts that went through his mind (which is very painful to remember right now personally) and frankly the journey is and was his and his alone to take.

I'm deeply sorry for your loss, Tim. 



Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: pozattitude on September 30, 2007, 05:11:21 pm
Dear Tim,

I am so sorry for you sudden loss.  You are such a wonderful and caring person.  I feel terrible for what has happened.
I'm here for you.  You have my number

Rich
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: newt on September 30, 2007, 05:13:25 pm
Sorry, Tim...  :-[
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Basquo on September 30, 2007, 05:41:58 pm
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, Tim.  Glad you got some sleep.

next2u already said exactly what I wanted to say.

Creighton
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: pozniceguy on September 30, 2007, 06:06:27 pm
Tim , as you can see by the responses to this thread.. suicides leave a lot of issues behind them.. they seem to see this as a solution to their problems and in their "reality" it only affects them.  I can only echo what has been said so many times....don't put this on yourself.....he made a very painful personal choice and you still have a long life ahead of you..

My deepest sympathy for the loss of your friend

Nick
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: RapidRod on September 30, 2007, 06:07:35 pm
Tim, I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend and what you are going through. Like it's been said, you know where we are if you would like to talk.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words (And a Bring Down Update)
Post by: thunter34 on September 30, 2007, 06:44:09 pm
Dear All:

I have just returned from Michael's house.  There, extended family members from all parts are tearing the house inside out looking for some form of journal or note that he may have left.  He had an old journal that he had stopped writing in as of late 2006, but had begun a new one recently.  I know this is true because he briefly showed it to me- just that he had it and was now once again writing in it.  Thus far, no one has been able to locate it.  I'm going to sift through the as yet unopened sections of my SF suitcase (which I took into his house last week) and scan through my car as well.  There is a remote possibility he may have placed it among my things.  I don't know whether I hope so or hope not at the moment.  

They were also looking for his birth certificate.  I mentioned that they should check his zipper-lock pill case, as he sometimes placed things inside that.  As it turns out, a call to the coroner's revealed that he had in fact placed his birth certificate in the pill case.  My assumption is that this was another planned action, as I'm sure he knew that this case would be siezed by the proper people once they arrived to claim his body from his home.  I was right about my guess as to the whereabouts of the birth certificate.  I may yet prove right about the missing journal.  I hope it turns up, yet I am somewhat afraid of actually finding it among my things.

It was a very surreal experience at his place today.  It couldn't have been a more perfectly beautiful day.  Speckless sky, just that right caress of breeze and the sunlight taking that golden tint that it only reaches at the first glimpse of autumn.  It would have been a great day to have shared with him, and had this not happened I most likely would have been sharing it with him just at that time.  Instead, it was that endless talking that people do in such situations- pouring over lasts conversations and connections again and again, trying to piece together some sense of it all.  And sifting through the mental and emotional silt for those last bits of gold to share.  I found reason to cry in the oddest of things- video tapes placed on top of the TV for films we were planning to watch soon, little doodles scratched on random pieces of paper...even the wrappers off the last eaten popsicles still placed very visibly near the top of the trash.  It was just the signs of shared life experience so recent.  It was the little glimmers of light drawing attention to the shadow of absence.  

I realize that I am rambling and that is probably making this a rather flowery read.  You'll have to indulge me or click along.  I needed to type all of this.  

In talking with the family, it came to light that Michael had been giving away or trying to give away several things of his recently.  I have several new shirts, for example- a couple of which I took with me to San Francisco.  Given his last circumstances, it was easy not to see some of this for what it most likely was- and none of us knew that other things were being offered to other people, so none of us had the grand picture.  I had also mentioned that he seemed happier in recent weeks, attributing that to an increase in his antidepressent dosage.  That is now also subject to scrutiny, as it is not confirmed that such an increase was given.  It may simply have been that elation phase that some people go through pre-suicide once their minds are at peace with the decision.  I also now realize that when I took him to the doctor last week, we took the long way around toward the medical center.  In route, he took care to point out to me the funeral home where his mother had had her service almost two years ago.  He did say then that when the time came for him to go, he wanted it to be at the same place.  I know it might read as obvious to some of you now, but at the time it did not particularly stand out.  He so often spoke about his mother, and he framed it around the concerns over his tests.  I filed it away as such at the time, though now it seems he may have been taking extra care to make sure I knew precisely where it was.  

One last piece of cheerful news:  the coroner announced that they will not be performing a complete autopsy, as it was confirmed he had been dead longer than previously thought, most likely sometime Friday afternoon.  The official cause of death is asphyxiation.  His neck did not break- he suffocated to death.  He did not go quickly or easily according to the coroner's office.

I could probably go on and on still further typing away at this, but I'm closing this post for now.  I'm going to go outside on the front steps and look at the sunset and have a cigarette and cry a little more.  Regardless of any belief in an afterlife or not, it is certain he is at some level of peace now one way or another.  I'm still waiting for a bit of that peace to reach me.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Dachshund on September 30, 2007, 06:51:07 pm
I'm just so sorry Tim. Truly, truly, sorry.

Love,
Hal
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: AlanBama on September 30, 2007, 07:06:43 pm
My dear Tim,

I am so sorry this happened honey.   I'm sorry for your loss, and sorry it had to happen the way it did.   We each have to play the hand we are dealt; Michael was playing his, the only way he knew how.  I'm sorry he was not able to reach out for help.

You're in my thoughts and prayers

Love,
Alan
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: BT65 on September 30, 2007, 07:31:59 pm
Dearest Tim:

Nothing we say can make this situation easier.  Hopefully knowing we are all here for you will help some.  Like I said in my pm, you call anytime you need to honey. 
Love you-
Betty
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Life on September 30, 2007, 08:08:53 pm
Tim, you have a gift.  Do not for a second stop using it by not reaching out to those in need.    Some, will not make it, and some do..  The problem is, you never know the ones that do cuz they are still here alive and living because of you.....


I am sorry,

Eric
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: thunter34 on September 30, 2007, 08:10:59 pm
I have something else to say here now.

The outpouring of support I have received today has been truly humbling.  I've been on the phone with a few of you throughout the day, although I typically haven't been able to speak for very long.  My PM box has been overflowing with personalized messages of support- in addition to all of the thoughtful posts made here.

I know more than ever that I am honored to be in this company.

Thanks to you.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: lucas clay on September 30, 2007, 08:53:19 pm
Tim
i cant pretend to know the hurt you must be feeling now.
Just wish i could sit next to you and put my arm around your shoulder, You and Michael will be in my prayers.

                                                    love
                                                          Lucas
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Lisa on September 30, 2007, 09:03:34 pm
I'm sorry Timmy. It is not ever easy when someone commits suicide in such a fashion.
We are all coming up on a one year anniversary of my grandaughter's mom Christy, having shot herself in the head, in front of both of her sisters.
You reached out to him, and tried to help, but he may have been far down this road way before you came into his life.
She just had a moment today.
There is likely nothing you can do to assuage your heart right now, but I am here, and I always will be.
Thinking of you tonight, and sending you soft kisses and hugs.  :'(
We will be your soft place to fall.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Teresa on September 30, 2007, 10:13:11 pm
Tim,

Wish I had some words that would take your pain away. Just know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Big Hugs
Teresa
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: belief on September 30, 2007, 10:24:24 pm
tim,

i can say that i understand how you are feelilng...the disbelief, the drugs to help you sleep, picking up the pieces, somehow fuctioning as the day and life around you continues.  i lost my husband to suicide only four months ago.  i saw him the day he died.  we argued, we yelled, we hated each other.  there is so much i wish i could change and so much i can't undo...but i still know that this wasn't my fault.  nor is michael's death your fault.  as hard as that bit is to process...it is true.  and believe me, i fight myself on that one every single day.

please, i am no expert on suicide, but please - if i can help in any way, let me know.  i will pm you as well.

i am so, so very sorry.  there are no words i will say that will bring you comfort, but know you're in my thoughts tonight...

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: komnaes on September 30, 2007, 10:58:45 pm
I am sorry to hear about your friend Tim. Please take care.

Hugs, Shaun
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: thunter34 on October 01, 2007, 01:43:42 am
I needed to repeat this once again:  I've been overwhelmed with support from so many of you- but in the best way one can imagine.  I've been responding as I can, but I just wanted to publicly state my appreciation for this as I have been reading through it here and in the PM's. 
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Queen Tokelove on October 01, 2007, 01:54:27 am
Thunter Bunny--

It should be no surprise that you are loved here. We are all here to support you and help get you through this tough time. I am glad that there are people here that you can call if need be even if you don't have much to say. I don't have the words personally but has nothing but love and a big hug for you.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: puertorico2006 on October 01, 2007, 02:02:04 am
Tim im really sorry for your loss...

I hope you don't blame yourself and everyone here will help you get through this

 :-* :-* :-* :-*

-Josh
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: egello on October 01, 2007, 05:39:16 am
sorry about this and here i am owrrying over my ed
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: mjmel on October 01, 2007, 07:01:32 am
My heart sank as I read your post, Tim. So sorry for your current grief and confusion. So sorry for Michael's grief and confusion, as well. When I read the last entry of your post, I considered how another frightened person allowed money worries to overwhelm him. I know there were other issues, though.
I know you have done a lot of work in helping this guy keep his head above water and in the end he could not. I am sorry for this. Clearly, this is not on your shoulders, Tim. When I met you in San Francisco I understood the level of sensitivity and kindness in your being. You did what you could.
I will think of Michael today and send him some comforting thoughts.
I will think of you today, too.
xxx,
Mike
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: penguin on October 01, 2007, 08:50:38 am
tim, I am so sorry to hear this - you are in my thoughts today

kate x
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Moffie65 on October 01, 2007, 09:32:50 am
Hi Tim,

Loss is very much a part of our lives with this horriffic bug, and I wish I could say it gets easier with time, but still at 186 funerals and counting, I always struggle to pass through yet one more loss of a friend. 

I trust you will soon find peace in knowing that your friend is truly now without pain, and struggles, and will be with you even now. 

Love,
Tim.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: RAB on October 01, 2007, 09:35:04 am
Tim

I've been away from the forums for a couple of days and have only just found this thread.  There's nothing more that I can post that hasn't already been said.

I just wanted to add my voice to those who have already reached out to you.

I am so sorry for this loss and the pain you are experiencing.  Truly sorry!  

RAB

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Andy Velez on October 01, 2007, 09:35:20 am
Dear Tim,

I'm glad you were able to sit down and talk to us after your first visit to Michael's place. Those were eloquent words you wrote, friend. Your humanity shines through all of what you've shared with us.

Sometime back I had a similar experience in which it became apparent that a friend had been planning her end for sometime and been taking actions which no one could piece together until she did it. It took me a long time before I could look at her photo afterwards. There's a particular street in Manhattan which I associate with her. It always makes me think of walking there with her when I walk down it. Truthfully I still sometimes feel pangs and sadness that I didn't realize how deep her depression was and where she was heading. O, lost, o, lost.   

May Michael rest in peace and may you be comforted.

Big hugs,

 
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: aztecan on October 01, 2007, 09:55:56 am
My dear Tim,

I can't really add anything to what's already been said, but I wanted you to know I will keep you in my heart.

Your humanity and caring for others is very obvious. Just remember there are times when there is nothing anyone can do.

I'm here for you.

HUGS,

Mark
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: sharkdiver on October 01, 2007, 10:19:03 am
Dear Tim
   I am so sorry for your loss. I only know you by reading your posts on the forum but my heart does go out to you as well as my tears as I try to type this. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Eric
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Denver Toad on October 01, 2007, 10:36:16 am
Tim,

I am so sorry for your loss. The grieving process for suicide is so different from that of other deaths. The nature of the event leaves you stuck at a moment in time. Part of you wants to go back and relive the day’s prior hoping there was a clue or something you missed that would lend sense to the senseless. Part of you realizes that life marches on and so to will you. But there will forever be a part of your being attached to the moment.

I lost my wife to suicide a year ago. For days, weeks and months I struggled with the question of why? It’s taken the better part of a year but I’ve finally made peace with my knowledge that there will never be an adequate answer to any of my questions. And too, it’s taken as long to fully accept that I (and you too Tim) am not in any way responsible for that final decision. What finally allowed me to begin the healing was fully realizing, and completely accepting, that I would have done anything to stop that moment in time.

What I was struck by in reading your posts, was that your friend, just like my wife, was leaving clues prior to their death. And that it was only after their death that we were able to see all the clues. Had they gone to any one person with all their clues, what was in the planning would have been obvious. Instead their signals/clues/signs of desperation were doled out in a manner that leaves us with guilt and questions. Why didn’t I see? How could I have missed? If you had known what you really meant to us, would you have done this?

You’ll heal Tim. Be patient with yourself, treat yourself gently, and try not to let the questions and guilt get the better of you. After Terry killed herself, and still to this day, I talk to her a lot. Sharing my emotions, questions, and love feels better then bottling them up. One of the best books I found on suicide is: “No Time To Say Goodbye” by Carla Fine. She too is a survivor and put words to many of my thoughts and feelings. I wasn’t as crazy as I thought I’d become. And as she promised, time does heal. Love replaces bitterness, acceptance replaces questions, and quiet resignation replaces emotional turmoil. It just takes time.


Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: woodshere on October 01, 2007, 10:53:42 am
Tim,

This is a trying time you find yourself in.  Having been through the suicide of a friend this past May, my experience is fresh on my mind when I read this thread.  It had a tremendous effect on me and really shook my faith to the core.  It started a downward spiral that I care not to repeat.  My advice to you is to take care of yourself.  Talk to those who you are close with and try not to struggle very hard to find answers to the many questions you have, because unfortunately most do not have answers.

Peace,
Woods
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: cjc on October 01, 2007, 08:38:26 pm
Tim, I am so sorry to hear of your loss and am thinking of you during this difficult time. I will restate what the others have said"This was not your fault". You are a wonderful caring person but you could not have prevented this tragedy. hope it eases with time. Much love .   Cristy
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: alterman on October 02, 2007, 06:49:42 am
thats why its so important to have God in your life,Because he is that rock that will be on your side through  thick and thin.
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: heartforyou on October 02, 2007, 07:05:39 am
Oh sweetie,

That is a tragedy.
I lost my very close friend Magda last year . She hanged herself. It is a cruel cruel fact you will have to live with.

But know that it is his choice. And his only. It is the final act of persuing what you believe in or don't believe in anymore. And as a close friend you can only watch in horror and try to understand....which you never will, Tim.

Try to remember the good times and the fact you have been there with your kind kind spirit.
I know you better now : your friend Michael will rest in peace now.

Talk about it, it helps. And know that I feel your pain.

Whenever you need to talk about it... please, pm me.

Love you and hug you

Hermie
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: dixieman on October 02, 2007, 12:33:39 pm
Tim, I'm sorry to hear about your friends suicide...
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: JeffreyM on October 02, 2007, 02:17:58 pm
Dear Thunter, So very sorry for your loss. Sending you peace and light.  JeffreyM
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: tnboy on October 02, 2007, 02:46:03 pm
Dearest Tim,

   I am so sorry to hear of this tragic event in your life. I know I have never actually met you but I think very highly of you and want you to know you are in my thoughts and prayers.

You are very special!
Mike
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: JPinLA on October 02, 2007, 03:03:05 pm
Tim - i'm so sorry to hear about your friend. 

JP
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: cayucosguy on October 02, 2007, 03:14:22 pm
Tim -

I just want to add my condolences.  While we didn't get to meet in SF, it is obvious from your writings what a wonderful person you are.  I am so very sorry you have had to go through this.

Vince
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Ric Wilke on October 02, 2007, 08:27:14 pm
Sweet Tim,

We are so sorry for your loss.  We are here if you need us.  we will PM you our phone number in case you want to talk or you can PM us yours and we will call you.  We enjoyed the time we shared together in SF and count those moments as precious and very dear.

Love, R&T
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: marc11864 on October 03, 2007, 06:25:17 pm
Tim,

 I'm very sorry for your loss.  :-[

 Peace to your head and heart.

 Marc
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: jonny123 on October 03, 2007, 06:47:18 pm
Tim,

I can't even think of what to say.

I've lost six friends in the past 4 years, and recently lost my mother so death by any means be it suicide, from sickness, or natural causes is difficult to process. My heart hurts just thinking of what you may be feeling so I won't say too much here.

Keeping you in my prayers

JP
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: JohnOso on October 03, 2007, 08:37:15 pm
Tim,

I can't add anything that the wiser and more eloquent above haven't already expressed.

My heart goes out to you in your time of grief.  I'm pleased that you are able to go out and see the sunlight, feel the breezes and try to sort out your feelings. 

All of us here, while not able to feel your pain, share your sense of loss over a loved one.

And we grieve all over again, together.

Much love,
John

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words (and the very last update)
Post by: thunter34 on October 05, 2007, 04:25:00 pm
Dear All:

I have to do a blanket "thank you" to everyone here for the love and support.  I've been away from the forums for a few days and have returned to a great backlog of messages.  I'm very behind in all that, but very tired and disoriented still right now so that will all have to wait a bit longer.  Some of you have written to me about his memorial service and how I've handled that.  I haven't yet.  It hasn't been held yet.  I've been helping his small assembly of family and friends take care of "the business at hand" portion of it.

His memorial service is tomorrow at 11am.  It will likely be very short and very small.  The preacher or whatever performing the eulogy will be someone serving a professional capacity- with no real ties to Michael.  His ashes will go with his sister until they can figure out when and where to put them elsewhere...most likely just sprinkled over his mother's grave in Acworth sometime in the future.  So in the end, he's not getting the memorial service or burial as he would have wanted. 

But then not many of us have been getting what we want these days.

I'm getting ready to bring this thread to an official close.  It's served its purpose and there is nothing more to say on the matter.  I created an enormous post in Mental Health to try to help myself expel all these emotional toxins.  In both threads, I've exhausted my supply of, well...everything.  Words, tears...the whole damn show.

It's about time for me to direct my energies toward renewal of my own life force.  It has to be.

Love and Stuff,

Tim Hunter

Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: Jeffreyj on October 05, 2007, 06:37:15 pm
Tim,
I am so very sorry you have to deal with such a shocking tragedy.  Sadly death is a part of life.

My roomates Mom just got murdered last week. There are damn few words one can say during times like this. I will keep you in my thoughts. I just hope you will stay strong and get through this. Judging from the response of this thread, I'm sure you will.

My heartfelt condolences.
Jeff
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: ybbat67 on October 07, 2007, 05:06:52 am
I can relate to some of the emotions you are going through, i lost a close friend/bf to suicide, your in my thoughts at this sad time.

Wazza
Title: Re: The Boy That I Was Seeing - Some Last Words
Post by: mamaangie on October 07, 2007, 09:56:20 am
I am just now reading your post. I am so sorry. I had a boyfriend that committed suicide about 10 years ago. I was leaving him. He even left a note that said that was why he did it. Then he sat in our living room, put a 30/30 in his mouth, and pulled the trigger. Needless to say, the guilt I felt was horrendous. But ultimately, it was a choice that he made. And I was angry for a long time because I knew I had made it through much tragedy in my life. If you need some one-on-one support, my email address is adkinshugh@yahoo.com.
Angie in WV