POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: sdg on February 19, 2007, 10:19:54 am
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Just wondering what the chances of getting syphillis and HIV simultaneously are?
I'm a guy and over the pass month I've had protected vaginal sex with 3 girls, given unprotected oral to two of them and rec. unprotected oral from one. Three days after my last visit to one of these girls (who I gave unprotected oral to) I notice this irritating sore on the side of my tongue. Did some googling and my initial thought is that it could be a syphillis chancre (not sure if 3 days is along enough for one to form ... so its just a guess???).
Anyways, rem. reading that chances of HIV transmission go up with the addition of other STDs. So my question is ... could this be syphillis? And if so, could I have gotten syphillis + hiv thru any or all of the given scenarios above?
thanks - greg
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If you have syphillis you have a 5x greater chance of contracting hiv for unprotected anal and vaginal sex. Going down on a woman and receiving a blowjob is not a risk for HIV.
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Thanks for the reply Rod.
Does that mean you have to already have syphillis for the odds to become 5x greater? Or does that also apply to getting both at the same time?
I'm not even sure if what I got is syphillis ... three days doesn't seem like enough time for the chancre to form (but i dunno much about the disease). I'll get tested in the next few weeks ... just seems suspicious at this point.
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Having syphillis that is untreated then having a risk by unprotected sex.
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Get tested for Syph. cause it is a bitch if you get it.
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I plan too.
not sure how long i have to wait to get tested ... so i'm giving it 6 weeks.
does 3 days sound like enough time for the chancre to develop?
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SD, as Rod has pointed out you had protected intercourse. Condoms provide very effective protection against HIV transmission.
None of the other activities you mentioned would have put you at risk for HIV transmission.
STDs are never something to guess about. If you're sexually active as you seem to be, you ought to be doing a full STD panel regularly -- that means at least annually and every six months is even better.
Having an active std such as syphillis does make you more vulnerable to picking up HIV in unprotected situations. As long as you consistently use condoms for vaginal or anal intercourse you are covered, literally and figuratively.
If your sore persists you should discuss it with your doctor to see what it's about.
Cheers,
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3 days does not sound like enough to me. This would be a primary stage symptom and it looks like 10 days is the earliest.
The first symptom of primary syphilis is an ulcer called a chancre ("shan-ker"). The chancre can appear within 10 days to three months after exposure, but it generally appears within two to six weeks. Because the chancre may be painless and may occur inside the body, it may go unnoticed. It usually is found on the part of the body exposed to the partner’s ulcer, such as the penis, the vulva, or the vagina. A chancre also can develop on the cervix, tongue, lips, or other parts of the body. The chancre disappears within a few weeks whether or not a person is treated. If not treated during the primary stage, about one-third of people will progress to chronic stages.
And yes please contact the Dr. as you have planned.
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Syphilis, like hiv should be tested at 13 weeks.
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sd,
It can take between ten and ninety days for a syphilis chancre to surface after a person has been exposed and infected. They are normally painless.
As Andy says, STIs are nothing to guess about. If you're worried about syphilis, you need to get checked out. Syphilis shares a three month window period for a conclusive negative result, and also like hiv, it will normally show up on the tests earlier.
And as you have been told, neither getting a blowjob nor going down on a woman are risks for hiv infection.
Ann
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Met up with an escort ... performed unprotected oral sex on her along with deep french kissing along with protected (I wore a condom) vaginal sex. During the kissing though, she rubbed the tip of my penis (without condom) against her vagina and maybe (I wasn't really watching) put it in just a tiny bit. This lasted for just a few minutes.
I'm not sure if the above counts as an unprotected incident and I need to get tested ... or not. I know there is probably a risk for other STDs (I'm not sure which ones) but HIV? I dunno.
Any thoughts?
Thanks much! - G
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sd,
The rubbing you describe is called frottage and it is not a risk for hiv infection. You already know your other activities were no risk.
You can pick up other STIs from frottage, but not hiv. If you're concerned about other STIs you can go test ten days to two weeks after the encounter (for all but syphilis) or sooner if you develop symptoms such as a discharge from your penis. Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs. When was the last time you had a ROUTINE check-up? Keep in mind that some STIs such as chlamydia can be present WITHOUT symptoms and this is why routine screening is so important.
ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST FOR HIV OVER THIS SPECIFIC INCIDENT, if you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
Keep using those condoms, correctly and consistently, and you'll have no worries where hiv is concerned. You did not have a risk for hiv this time out.
Ann
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Thanks Ann!
I'll get a full set of test in 2-3 weeks. I don't do this often but I haven't gotten a full round of tests in a long time.
Speaking of testing, are there any recommendations for anonymous and confidential testing places in the San Diego area? Cost doesn't matter although the cheaper the better I guess :)
Thanks again - G
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sd,
I live on a rock in the middle of the Irish Sea so I don't know offhand of centers in San Diego, but you might have some luck finding somewhere by using the poz.com ASO directory.
http://directory.poz.com/
Ann
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haha.
Ok thanks I'll take a look there.
One last question re: "frontage." I know unprotected vaginal intercourse is a risk ... so if the woman rubbed my penis, including the top of it, against her vagina and even put it in a bit ... doesn't that still qualify as a risk? How far does my penis need to be in her vagina for it to qualify as intercourse?
thanks - G
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Frottage is not a risk for HIV transmission.
However you raise the question about having possible inserted your penis and how deep must an unprotected insertion be to become a risk for HIV transmission. If it's simply a matter of your penis rubbing against the vaginal lips and having them open a bit I wouldn't consider it risky. However, HIV status is not something ever to guess about so if you think you may have inserted more than very slightly then I would say get tested and remove any doubts about the matter.
You have to think clearly and decide what really happened.
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Thanks Andy,
Yah ... I believe it was just in between the lips of the vagina ... nothing more. I plan on getting an standard STD /HIV test in about 4 weeks but it doesn't sound like there is a risk for HIV in this case.
- G
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Good. It sounds like your mind has just been toying with your fears.
Good luck with your test which I expect will give you a happily negative result.
Cheers,
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It's been a long time since I've been on these boards but a recent incident has me concerned. Basically I hooked up with a random guy on craigslist who I received some hard oral from ( I was insertive side of things). I didn't notice any blood or abrasions on my penis and the guy appeared pretty clean ... But now,5 weeks later, I've come down with the worse flu I've ever had and I'm starting to wonder.
What are my risks for HIV? For what other stds? And when, if, should I get tested?
Thanks - greg
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sdg
I have merged your posts so please use this one from now on to ask any questions you may have.
I don't see any risk in what you have described, winter is in full swing at the moment and so is the flu season...I think you are worrying over nothing.
Jan
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Thanks for the re:
So no need to test? Or do you think given the circumstances testing would be a good idea? Also, not sure I know what other risks there are for getting another STD or if even testing is merited there.
- g
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sdg,
Whether or not a person "appeared pretty clean" is irrelevant where hiv is concerned. I'm hiv positive and I can assure you that I am clean. It's highly insulting to use the word "clean" when describing a person's sexual health. Please don't use that term here again.
Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection. You should know this by now. We've told you what constitutes a risk and what doesn't and it's time for you to start applying that to your own life. We're not here to hold your hand every time you have a sexual experience.
As for testing, NO, you do NOT need to test over this specific incident. However, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.
Ann
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sorry Ann ... no disrespect meant in my use of "clean". thanks for the reply still.
i do have a couple of followup questions regarding another incident i was involved in ... it was with a woman I had never met before and haven't talked to since. she gave me unprotected oral and then we had short (sad to say) intercourse using a condom. it sounded safe at the time until i noticed some blood (her's) on the condom afterwards. so a couple of questions:
1. Does the fact blood was present on the condom make this incident one I should be concerned with? Should I get tested.
2. If I understand things right, I'd know if the condom broke, right? Everything seemed to be in contact but is there a chance I might miss a small hole that could result in exposure?
thanks again - Greg
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It's irrelevant that blood was present during intercourse because you were wearing a condom. Condoms provide very effective protection. As startling as seeing blood may have been to you it didn't change the fact that you were well protected.
When a condom breaks it's not the teeny weeny little hole some fear may allow HIV to sneak in. It becomes quite clear the condom has broken because it ends up looking like a fringed hoop on your penis.
I don't see anything to be of concern about in relation to HIV and your most recent experience.
Cheers.
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Thanks Andy.
That's what I suspected. So I'm assuming I don't need to get an hiv test in 13 weeks except when i do my annual STD/HIV screening?
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sdg,
No, you don't need to test over this blowjob and yes, you only need to test at your annual check-up.
Ann
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Ann ... I was referring to a different incident mentioned in my second to last post (e.g. protected intercourse with blood on the condom afterwards)
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Condoms provide very effective protection against HIV transmission. The fact that there was blood on the outside of the condom after your brief intercourse is irrelevant. You did not have a risk.
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sdg,
Sorry about the mistake. Even so, as Andy has told you, protected intercourse is just that - protected - and blood on the condom makes no difference. You did not have a risk.
Ann
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Andy and Ann ... thanks for the replies and information.
While I already know, or at least am fairly confident, that you are going to answer "its not a concern" ... I have developed an unusual rash on my left/front collarbone. It consist of 6-8 raised, red spots in a tight bow shape ... a few of them look like they have crusted over. Anyways, its been 3 1/2 weeks since my first incident and yes, I went on the web and what I read/saw ... it looks like the hiv rash (or maybe the syphillis rash).
Any comments on this? I'm a little concerned and would appreciate any thoughts.
Thanks
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Your rash or whatever has nothing to do with HIV you were never at risk of contracting HIV from having protected sex as Andy and Ann have both advised you earlier.
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I totally put these incidents aside until my girlfriend came down with just about all the symptoms of acute HIV infection ... and the timing would be right for ARS.
First she was diagnosed with strep ... then they said she got the flu ... today she has a rapid flu test and the dr. says it isn't the flu and that it is viral. She developed a rash that is all over her face, chest, abdomen and upper legs. For the past 4 days she has had a very high fever, muscle aches, fatigue, vomitted once, etc...
Her dr. said it might be 'fifths disease' ... but i find it completely odd that no one around us has it or even the hint of it.
Anyways, I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm a bit freaked out and wonder if I had put her at risk for HIV infection.
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This is all about feelings and nothing based in HIV science. You didn't do anything that put you at risk for HIV transmission.
And having strayed from your relationship now you're guilt tripping yourself into thinking you've infected your gf. You haven't. You can't give to her what you don't have.
You can waste some resources if you want to, get tested and collect the inevitable negative result.
Your gf needs to be in contact with her doctor if her symptoms persist. They have nothing to do with HIV no matter how you are mis-reading them as perfectly matching ARS. So do a LOT of other things.
This is NOT an HIV situation. Period.
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sd,
You didn't have a risk when you had protected intercourse or got blown.
Are you having unprotected intercourse with your girlfriend? Unless you've tested hiv negative together and are securely monogamous, you two should be using condoms, every time, no exceptions.
Ann
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yes ... unprotected intercourse with the girlfriend.
she is completely monogamous ... i am not. though i hear what you are saying about my incidents not being risky, i just can't get the timing of, and the very symptoms she is experiencing out of my head. and this diagnosis of 'fifth's disease' ... seems odd too given she is in her mid 30's.
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I think you might mean "Frith's disease." Whatever.
And it doesn't sound like she's actually been diagnosed but rather the doctor just took a guess from symptoms. That's a guess and not a diagnosis.
In any case there is absolutely no reason to believe this is an HIV situation. Really.
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No ... its FIFTH'S disease (see http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/fifth.html)
Anyways, I hear what you guys are saying. I'm sure its my mind playing games with me ... especially with the timing and symptoms and all.
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Thanks again for all your replies. I do have one last concern ...
I think I may have contracted herpes (not sure yet). I started showing symptoms of a rash/abrasion on the top part of the shaft of my penis about 2 days ago (40+ days from when I would have been exposed). It is red and itchy and I think I notice little blisters but not really sure.
Anyways, if either of the folks that gave me oral had herpes ... even though its just oral sex ... could I be at risk for contracting HIV because they have it?
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Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
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HIV is absolutely not acquired through receiving oral. Period. End of story. Even IF you acquired herpes from either of them, that doesn't change the non-risk reality as far as HIV is concerned in relation to oral.
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sorry rod ... just heard that herpes (or any other STD) can increase your risk of acquring HIV. thus the post.
this from http://knol.google.com/k/monica-gandhi/genital-herpes/RFLyPUlg/vR5zpQ#
"In addition, patients with both genital herpes and HIV are more likely to pass the AIDS virus on to uninfected sexual partners."
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What part of the "Warning" is it that you didn't understand? You didn't have a risk period. End of discussion..
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sdg,
Herpes increasing the chance of transmitting hiv only applies when you're talking about UNPROTECTED ANAL OR VAGINAL INTERCOURSE (in other words, NOT A BLOWJOB) when there is an active outbreak of herpes and there are OPEN blisters present. Herpes can be transmitted when there is no active outbreak.
Keep posting about this NO RISK blowjob and you WILL be given a time out. This is your LAST warning!
Ann
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For the following activities ... I was just wondering what the general consensus is these days for risk of HIV infection for the MAN engaging in the following activities with a woman. I'm assuming that the woman is HIV+ and I'm looking for a percentage (e.g. 0% ... 85% ... etc.. for each) for the relative risk of infection.
1. Receiving unprotected oral sex from woman
2. Receiving unprotected rim job from woman
3. Giving unprotected oral to a woman
4. Having unprotected vaginal intercourse with a woman
5. Having protected intercourse with a woman.
6. Deep french kissing.
Thanks - Greg
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Read the posting guidelines.
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sdg,
Once again, your new thread has been merged into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. Get with the program!!! It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.
If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.
Please also read through the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.
For the following activities ... I was just wondering what the general consensus is these days for risk of HIV infection for the MAN engaging in the following activities with a woman. I'm assuming that the woman is HIV+ and I'm looking for a percentage (e.g. 0% ... 85% ... etc.. for each) for the relative risk of infection.
1. Receiving unprotected oral sex from woman
2. Receiving unprotected rim job from woman
3. Giving unprotected oral to a woman
4. Having unprotected vaginal intercourse with a woman
5. Having protected intercourse with a woman.
6. Deep french kissing.
Thanks - Greg
You've been coming here for over a year and a half now - you should know this stuff. Sexually speaking, the only true risk is UNPROTECTED anal or vaginal intercourse.
1 - NO RISK
2 - NO RISK
3 - NO RISK
4 - RISK
5 - NO RISK
6 - NO RISK
Ann
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You're right Ann. I guess the simplest explanation is that I'm guilt-tripping over seeing one escort after another. And even though I use condoms for vaginal intercourse I just can't believe that all those other activities are risk free! The all the fluid interchange it seems like there is a whole bunch more risk than non-risk.
- Greg
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Greg,
Do you have regular, routine sexual health check-ups like we've repeatedly told you to in this thread? (RE-READ your entire thread!) Because if you have been, surely you would have gained some confidence by now that what you've been doing is NO RISK for hiv. After all, you've been coming here for well over two years now. Again, as you've also been repeatedly told, don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
It's time we cut the apron-strings with you here. We've told you everything you could possibly need to know. (RE-READ your entire thread!) We're not here to hold your hand everytime you get the jitters over going to sex workers and having PROTECTED sex.
Keep attempting to get us to hold your hand and you WILL be given that time out you've been warned about.
RE-READ your entire thread!
Please consider yourself warned for the last time!
Ann
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Regarding risks associated with giving a female oral-vaginal and oral-anal ... are there any extenuating situations where those activities could be a real risk for HIV infection to me as the performer?
I recently engaged in these activites with an escort ... and both were done with some intensity. I know from the site that the only "real" risk is unprotected anal/vaginal intercourse BUT I don't get why? Why can't the equally unprotected oral activities I'm describing here pose a risk as well?
Also, I know when these questions come up in other posts you guys reference some study done several years ago where sero-discordant couples engaged in unprotected oral sex with zero infections. I'd like to know if there are any other, more recent studies that have demonstrated the same conclusions ... or perhaps, contradict that past study?
Thanks
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sdq,
No, there are no extenuating circumstances. Those activities are not risks for hiv infection.
There were THREE serodiscordant studies - all fairly recent - and I don't really see any reason for another one. The results, just like our answers, are not going to change.
I don't know why you don't get it either. You'll have to see a therapist to get to the bottom of your hang-ups; we cannot help you with that here.
I'm giving you that time out I warned you about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently warned.
Ann
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... because I just fed-ex'd my HomeAccess sample off this morning!
Over the past year I've had numerous (way too many) sexual encounters with a couple guys I met on craigslist, a transsexual escort and several other female escorts. While I have taken this site's advice and ONLY engaged in protected vaginal/anal intercourse (e.g. always used a condom) ... I have on many occasions engaged in giving unprotected cunnlingus and analingus as well as receiving unprotected oral. I don't know the status of any of the girls or guys I have met but given that and the fact that some of the escorts have just dropped off the radar, I'm very very nervous.
Anyhow, I am going to post my result in three days and once and for all put this issue to rest. Given all the contradictory information about oral sex (even here on this site) I am expecting bad news especially in light of the number of guys and girls I've been with over the past year :(
Thanks
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Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
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And nothing you have reported today has put you at risk for HIV transmission.
Based on that I expect your test result to be negative.
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Negative (via Home Access test).
Thanks to all who respond in these forums. I hope to never be back here ever again (you all probably hope so too) ... and I hope my story alleviates the fear and worries of anyone out there with similar experiences. Regardless of risk factors, engaging in the activities I have (and continue to struggle with) were wrong and risky. The thought of what they may have resulted in and how that would affect both my life and the life of my family and loved ones was a primary factor for my HIV fears. Hopefully what once made me obsessed with HIV infection will keep me from the actions that put me here in the first place.
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That's a happy if not unexpected negative result. Celebrate it by always without exception using condoms for vaginal/anal intercourse and you will be well protected against the sexual transmission of HIV.
Cheers.