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HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: WorriedWell33 on November 26, 2006, 02:17:58 pm

Title: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 26, 2006, 02:17:58 pm
I went to my local clinic....and the nurse that drew my blood used a clean needle and disinfected the area on my arm with alcohol.  However, she wasn't wearing gloves during the proceedure.  Am I at risk for HIV?????????????


Please help ???
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: Ann on November 26, 2006, 02:48:17 pm
worried,

Hiv is not transmitted through skin to skin contact. There is no way you'd be at risk for hiv in the circumstance you describe. Please read through the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) and follow the link to the Transmission Lesson so you can learn what is and what isn't a risk for hiv.

Ann
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 26, 2006, 02:52:33 pm
So you don't think I have to be tested for HIV....and start over the window period for HIV testing because the nurse drew my blood without gloves?

what risk would you assess this in terms of HIV transmission (nurse not wearing gloves while drawing my blood)
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: Andy Velez on November 26, 2006, 02:58:59 pm
What level of risk for HIV? ZERO. NONE. ZILCH. No kidding.

And this ungloved incident in no way affects your count time for 13 weeks.

I recommend you (re)read the lesson on HIV transmission, a link to which you can find in the Welcome thread which begins this section. You are worrying about something which makes me think you need to get the basics down about transmission. Doing that will spare you this kind of unnecessary worrying.

Cheers,
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 26, 2006, 04:18:37 pm
Thank-you Ann and Andy,

I have always been afraid of HIV, ever since I had chlamydia back three years ago and was cured of it.

I am afraid of everything now.  I am an OCD.....yes I admit it.

the thing is...why is it then that some nurses wear gloves if not wearing gloves does not place the patient at risk?
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: Ann on November 26, 2006, 04:50:51 pm
worried,

Medical personnel wear gloves for their protection as much as yours. Bacterial organisms (E. coli and/or Staphylococcus, for example) are them main things that are being protected against.

This is NOT an hiv situation. Hiv is a fragile virus that does not survive and infect outside the human body.

This is not an OCD support forum. Please ask your doctor for a counseling referral to deal with your OCD. You can't do that here.

Ann
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 26, 2006, 05:02:16 pm
Thank-you Ann,

Would you say that based on the nurse not wearing gloves when drawing my blood means I should have one test after three months....I remember the date....she drew my blood on November 7 of this year.

You are very smart both you and Andy.

In my situation, would you be worried? would you get tested if your only exposure was the nurse not wearing gloves?
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: Ann on November 26, 2006, 05:15:04 pm
worried,

I'm already hiv positive and nurses often draw my blood while not wearing gloves. It's not a big concern either for them or me.

Why do I get the feeling you were testing over a no-risk incident in the first place?

Ann
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 26, 2006, 09:36:27 pm
Hello Ann,

Well three months ago...is when it all started.  I met a guy off the internet.  We had sex only vaginal sex (with condom and he didn't cum), we french kissed, he fingered my anus, we did frottage (genital rubbing no penetration), I received oral sex from him, but I didn't perform on him.  After this I thought I placed myself at risk for HIV.  I later found out he has a gf and is having unprotected sex with her and other women, plus he use to do IV drugs.

After 4 days I was with him I asked if he could get an HIV test and he did....he showed me his HIV test result and it was negative.....still I continued to be worried.

I tested negative out to 10 weeks 5 times.  Now that I went for my final test .....the nurse that drew my blood wasn't wearing gloves.....now I feel paranoid like I have to go through the window period all over again......

Title: Re: HELP
Post by: Ann on November 27, 2006, 05:44:37 am
worried,

You didn't have a risk so it's no surprise that you've tested negative. You do not need further testing. You are hiv negative, period, end of story. Keep using those condoms and you'll stay that way.

Ann
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 27, 2006, 08:09:12 am
Thank-you Ann
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 27, 2006, 04:21:02 pm
Does anyone know if there has ever been a documented case of a nurse passing HIV to a patient from drawing blood without wearing gloves?
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: Ann on November 27, 2006, 04:55:04 pm
Worried,

No, there has never been a documented case of this happening. As this is not a route for hiv transmission, it is hardly surprising that it doesn't happen.

If you cannot let go of this incident, I suggest you seek counseling. We can do no more for you here.

Ann
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 27, 2006, 10:07:50 pm
Thanks Ann,

But just today (3 weeks after nurse without gloves incident) I am experiencing a soar throat....can this be ARS??????
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: HIVworker on November 27, 2006, 10:53:23 pm
Go get some help over your OCD. Your concerns about getting HIV from a blood draw is absolute madness. Do yourself (and us) a favor and get some OCD treatment and don't ask any other questions about the blood draw. Any way you cut it, the answer is going to be "You don't get HIV from a blood draw". So stop asking. Doesn't matter what symptoms you have.

R
Title: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 28, 2006, 07:08:36 pm
Are universal percautions only out to protect the health care professional.....

for example.....in the other thread I stated how the nurse that drew my blood didn't wear gloves.  I called numerous hotlines, as well as the feedback I have received on this forum stating I have no risk of HIV or any other bloodborne disease based on a nurse drawing my blood with no gloves on.

However, by not wearing gloves are they not stating that they don't care about the patient's health in protecting them....or for their own health for that matter?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: Ann on November 28, 2006, 07:32:50 pm
worried,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

Universal precautions protect both the health care worker and the patient. BUT... in the case of drawing blood, they mainly protect the health care worker in case of needle stick. However, I know several nurses who find it more difficult to find a vein while wearing gloves and so they do without. This is no concern of yours.

Ann
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 28, 2006, 08:35:52 pm
Thanks Ann,

Tonight I noticed one of my tonsils swollen....is that a sign of HIV....risk(3 weeks ago nurse drew blood without gloves)....they say ARS is between 2-4 weeks.....well this is 3 weeks after that I have one swollen tonsil.

Help
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 28, 2006, 08:44:22 pm
What is the point of answering?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 28, 2006, 09:58:03 pm
What is the point of answering?

why do you say that?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 28, 2006, 11:09:25 pm
Because nothing we are saying is getting through. What part of Ann's reply did you not understand? What part of my reply did you not understand? What part of "You were not at risk for HIV" do you not understand? It doesn't matter if you got symptoms copied and pasted from a ARS symptoms website. They wouldn't be due to HIV. Not from this kind of exposure. I understand you are worried, but you have to go with our collective wisdom here. Stop looking for HIV symptoms because the more you look, the more things you will find that look like HIV to you, where the reality is that they are not.

Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 28, 2006, 11:27:31 pm
HIVworker,

If you were in my situation.....and the nurse drew your blood without gloves....you wouldn't be worried about contracting HIV....would you go for an HIV test at 13 weeks after this incident>
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 28, 2006, 11:49:31 pm
My friend, I work with HIV at a concentration of 10 billion particles per ml. The nurse could be naked and it wouldn't worry me. I know how HIV is transmitted, and it is not in the manner you describe. So if I were in your position, no I would not worry at all.

R
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 12:37:30 am
I am sorry for your HIV status.

I appreciate all the reassurance you guys give.  I just want to resume my life in a normal way.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 12:50:50 am
I am HIV negative. I work in a research lab with concentrated virus. You want to live your life in a normal way? I bet most people with HIV do. When you leave this forum have a think about those people you wish had a normal life too. What are you going to do to combat this disease or to help cure the ignorance that surrounds HIV? Ponder that...
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 12:59:20 am
HIV worker you actually screen blood for HIV?

who would you recommend get an HIV test?

Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 01:01:49 am
No and no. HIV isn't present at such high concentrations in the blood. We make it so concentrated for use in experimentation only.

R
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 06:55:41 am
Actually HIV is found in very high concentrations in the blood.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: RapidRod on November 29, 2006, 07:25:43 am
No, it is not comparable to lab concertrations.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 07:33:29 am
what does that mean

and rod what is your output based on my exposure

should I be tested for HIV

was I put at risk for HIV
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: RapidRod on November 29, 2006, 07:41:00 am
You wasn't put at risk and you surely don't need to test. This is not an HIV concern.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 07:48:28 am
In your personal view when does a person require HIV testing>
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: RapidRod on November 29, 2006, 08:00:16 am
Unprotected anal and vaginal sex. Using unsterilized works to inject drugs.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 09:28:23 am
At what risk would you place a nurse drawing blood from a patient with no gloves on....at what risk would you place that patient...in terms of HIV? and HIV testing?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 09:59:22 am
Thank you for trying to educate me about how high HIV is in the blood, although as validation for your concern it still is a moot comment. Actually, viral loads are like trying to explain how long a piece of string is.

Whatever someones viral load is, we work with 10,000 times higher concentrations. This makes us all concerned and we know when to worry and when not to. Going for our 3 month surveillance exams is not a point of worry. Uncapping a tube of 10,000,000 active HIV particles per ml requires some attention. Put your 'exposure' into that sort of context. You are so far on the side of "No risk" I can't begin to tell you.

Should you test after a blood draw? I don't know how many different ways of saying, "No risk" and "NO" we can come up with. How are you going to convince yourself that you won't get it from the new test anyhow?

The question I have for you is what is making you worry so irrationally about HIV? What event has made you so concerned about a nothing incident? Tackle that and you will tackle your HIV concerns. Taking a HIV test is a waste of money, is not needed and will do nothing to 'cure' you of your irrational concern for HIV. If you give in to testing you are doing nothing to help HIV education in the world and represent the worst sort of failure we have for trying to educate people on how HIV is transmitted. Test if you must, but do so knowing that it is a waste of money, resources and your time. Your time would be better spent on finding out why you worry about nothing so much.

Sorry if I sound harsh, I am trying to help you understand.

Rich

Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 10:36:38 am
Hello HivWorker,

Do you work in the HIV testing lab?

if so when do you consider someone get tested for HIV?  what exposures require someone to get tested for HIV?

Thanks for all your help

Everyone of you:)

Thanks:)
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: Ann on November 29, 2006, 11:37:30 am
Worried,

Worker has repeatedly answered the questions you just asked.

You have also been repeatedly told that nothing you have brought here is a risk for hiv infection. If you continue to post the same questions over and over and over again, I will give you a time out to encourage you to get the proper help for your OCD. This isn't the place to work on your mental health issues. Ask your doctor for a referral to a qualified therapist.

This is the only warning I'm going to give you.

Ann
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 11:42:29 am
Sorry Ann,

One more thing, I called a hotline....and they said that my risk may be high from the incodent.....cause now I think I have ARS ....swollen neck lymph node, nausea, cough, feverish....how can I not have HIV?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: Ann on November 29, 2006, 11:55:35 am
Worried,

The hotline was wrong. You had no risk.

Ann
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 12:14:21 pm
The hotline said that? They should be fired, that or you are lying. I vote the latter, because as incompetent as we have found the AIDS hotline, I would be amazed they would say test for that. Are they worried about the 1 in a billion lawsuit?

I've told you I don't work in a testing lab and none of the things I would suggest testing for apply to you and I won't say them. The world of high-concentrated virus is different than blood and warrents different precautions. Merely getting a blood draw at our medical center is NOT one of them regardless of the presence or absence of gloves.

R
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 12:38:04 pm
Hello Ann and Worker,

I appreciate all you are doing.  Basically it was the Public Health centre in Ottawa.  She said cause I am having symptoms I should ask my doctor to test me. 
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 12:42:34 pm
She is 100% wrong. If that were the only criteria for a HIV test, everyone would have several per year. I am not going to be too hard on them though, it is possible your reporting of the incident wasn't accurate and there is no way to know if it was.

All our advice remains the same and will do for the future. If you continue to post questions about the incident it would represent that you don't accept that it was a no risk incident. If that is true, there is little we can do for you and I would suggest that you move on and we lock this thread. We have answered your questions over and over. So no more.

Rich
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 12:53:41 pm
Ok how do you guys know so much about HIV

was there ever an incidence you told someone they don't have HIV based on their no to low risk....and you guys were ever wrong.....just asking
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: RapidRod on November 29, 2006, 12:58:33 pm
No, I've never been wrong on risk assessments. Qualifications, Paramedic for 30+ odd years. Living with HIV for 22 years.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 01:46:17 pm
Ok how do you guys know so much about HIV


I have worked in a research laboratory on HIV for 6 years, currently holding the position of senior research virologist, and have posted on this site over 5000 times. During the latter I have read all the transmission documentation that is relevant to the types of questions that come up.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 01:55:19 pm
Worker,

I just called the HIV lab....asking if they received my bloodwork...the lab receptionist said they did receive my bloodwork and it shows on her computer as having received it.... I didn't ask for the result cause I know they won't tell me.....does this mean that once the receptionist has on her system that I took the test....that she knows the result....or just that they have received my bloodwork but doesn't know my result?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 03:15:49 pm
I've got no idea. I don't work in a clinical lab. However, I am pretty sure that regardless of the result most places prefer to tell you the result in person.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 03:22:52 pm
Please in all honesty....do you think they don't want to tell me cause it is bad news?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: RapidRod on November 29, 2006, 03:25:10 pm
There are no more answers for you here. You didn't have a risk. PERIOD end of story.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 03:32:49 pm
In all honesty it is NOT because of that. In a lot of clinics there are ethics that pevent telling people about HIV infection down the phone. One of the reasons being that there is no confirmation that the person on the phone is actually the person who took the test. Doctors insist patients come in to find out their results so they can be sure they were the ones who took the test in the first place. Stops anyone else knowing before the patient.....

That and about 50 other reasons.

Rich
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 03:52:32 pm
based on all the information you know about me....what do you think my result will be
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 04:05:11 pm
Hi Worker,

It wasn't the clinic I called it was the actual Public Health clinic.....they said they are lab technicians....(I didn't leave my name) and they said the clinic where I placed the requisition has to call for results.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: Ann on November 29, 2006, 04:42:50 pm
Worried,

Are you saying that the blood draw you had was for an hiv test? Was this a routine test, or do you care to tell us why you think you needed to test?

Ann
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 04:45:41 pm
It was for an HIV test that I took before I joined this forum....

I took the test on Saturday (November 25)

why?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: Ann on November 29, 2006, 04:53:00 pm
Worried,

I was asking because I couldn't help but wonder if you were testing over a real risk or not. In other words, did you really need to test in the first place.

Whatever the reason for the test, you weren't at risk FROM the test.

Ann
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 04:56:45 pm
Hello Ann,

This is why I took the HIV test


Hello Ann,

Well three months ago...is when it all started.  I met a guy off the internet.  We had sex only vaginal sex (with condom and he didn't cum), we french kissed, he fingered my anus, we did frottage (genital rubbing no penetration), I received oral sex from him, but I didn't perform on him.  After this I thought I placed myself at risk for HIV.  I later found out he has a gf and is having unprotected sex with her and other women, plus he use to do IV drugs.

After 4 days I was with him I asked if he could get an HIV test and he did....he showed me his HIV test result and it was negative.....still I continued to be worried.

I tested negative out to 10 weeks 5 times.  Now that I went for my final test .....the nurse that drew my blood wasn't wearing gloves.....now I feel paranoid like I have to go through the window period all over again......
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 04:58:25 pm
the nurse drew my blood with no gloves while at the time she tested me for HEP (this was nov 7 of this year)

On november 25 I went for an HIV test cause I am afraid of the nurse drawing my blood without gloves....and also this test I took for hiv will definitavely be conclusive for my last protected sex exposure
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 05:11:41 pm
Based on the exposure being the woman who drew your blood, your test will be negative.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 05:19:21 pm
Worker,

so you are saying based on the exposure being "nurse drawing my blood without gloves" will keep my HIV status to Negative?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: Ann on November 29, 2006, 05:47:42 pm
Worried,

None of the sexual activities you list are risks for hiv infection. Condoms have been proven to prevent hiv transmission and you used a condom. Kissing is not a risk as saliva is not infectious - and neither is him going down on you for the same reason. Being fingered is not a risk for hiv infection. Frottage is also not a risk for hiv infection because it take place outside the body, while hiv transmission occurs INSIDE the body, as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse.

You have tested negative out to ten weeks and that result is not going to change, considering you have not had a risk. Also, as you have been told several times now, getting your blood drawn by a nurse who is not wearing gloves is NOT a risk for hiv infection. No way.

So, the conclusion is that you are without doubt hiv negative. If you cannot accept this fact, you would be wise to get yourself some counseling to deal with your scientifically unfounded worries.

There is nothing more we can do for you here.

Ann
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 08:14:59 pm
Actually, based on your sexual activity AND the nurse drawing blood without gloves on, I think you don't have HIV. Do you need it spelling out any clearer than that?
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 10:34:10 pm
Thanks Ann and Worker and to everyone else on this forum.....I spoke to councellors off the internet and they too said I am not at risk for HIV and they wouldn't even test me if I went to their clinic telling them my "risks".....they all say I suffer from anxiety.  I am going to seek help.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 29, 2006, 10:46:26 pm
Hurrah! Good for you.

Look Ann, I still got it. Whatever it is..

Rich
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 29, 2006, 10:48:14 pm
I am still waiting for my HIV test result

I hope I can hurray too and spread the word in the thread

(keeps her fingers crossed and hopes it will be negative)
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 30, 2006, 09:49:37 am
has anyone ever heard of someone getting HIV from a nurse drawing blood with no gloves on.....sorry for asking
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 30, 2006, 09:52:08 am
With all due respect, this thread should be locked as it violates the terms of the website. Simply asking the same question over and over means you have made no progress at all. That means the post on November 29, 2006, 10:34:10 PM was a complete lie. By allowing this to go on, we make a mockery of the forum.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 30, 2006, 09:55:45 am
please don't I just asked a question.....sorry
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 30, 2006, 10:01:34 am
The same question that you claimed you were over already. We have told you of the risk and of the chances. You have had external verification of this. Therefore I don't see what else this website can do for you. You are constantly on the forum and it is not helping. I respectfully request that the moderators exercise some help for you by locking this thread. Clearly asking the same question has done nothing for you. You are going over and over and around and around. And you have to stop.

R
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: HIVworker on November 30, 2006, 10:06:19 am
Allow me to remind you of the "Welcome Thread"

Quote
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: WorriedWell33 on November 30, 2006, 10:14:05 am
Sorry I just wanted to know the risks....even though you told me.....I guess I wanted reassurance during this time of awaiting my HIV test result.

It is no picnic waiting you know
Title: Re: universal precautions
Post by: Ann on November 30, 2006, 12:00:03 pm
Worried,

I warned you yesterday about repeatedly asking about this no risk situation. And forget the pity party over waiting for results - four times a year I have to wait six weeks to get my CD4 and viral load results. If I can wait six weeks, you can wait a few days. You never had a risk to begin with. It wouldn't be so bad if you actually listened to a word we've said, but you just keep coming back with the same exact questions.

You've been on this site non-stop for the past few days and it is obviously doing you no good at all. I'm giving you a four week time out to encourage you to get the help with your OCD that you need. We cannot help you with that here.

Ann

PS, do NOT create a new account to get around your time out. If you do, you will be permanently banned, no questions asked.