Any cause for concern?

[dragon67]

I've read the lessons section and realized that casual contact is not really  a way HIV can be transmitted but just wanted to run a situation out there to see if there was anything unusual about it.

Last weekend I went out with a buddy to a bar of questionable standards and danced with a lady-of-the-evening as you will for about an hour or two off-and-on. She tried to kiss me many times, but I wasn't interested and pulled my face away so she mostly kissed my eye, chin, side of my mouth where I had just popped a zit from a few hours earlier (sorry for that detail!). Later she asked me if I wanted a mint and I said yes thinking she would just hand me the pack, but instead she put one in her mouth, bit it and than gave it to me. On reflex I just popped it in. And later I just held her hand and took a swig from a bottle of water of hers. Anyway, after a couple hours of dancing I just left and went home as I had given my buddy more than enough time to make his move - I was just playing wing man for him.

I realize that my situation is quite vanilla, but I just felt a little uneasy about everything because it was with an individual who might be high-risk. She was a very kind person and even taught me how to say good bye in Thai, but she was still in all likelihood a sex worker and that has made me sort of think about things a lot more. I saw a spot on the palm side of one of my fingers and wondered whether it was something to worry about. And of course I replayed the dancing, mint, water, her kissing around my face episodes many times over in my head.

Anything to be concerned about here HIV wise? Cheers.

[Andy Velez]

This incident was beyond vanilla. Or not even up to vanilla. It was non-existent as far as any possibility of transmission of HIV. HIV is a fragile virus which is transmitted sexually only in very specific ways: unprotected vaginal or anal sex. There are other theoretical means of transmission but in the real world of HIV it happens as I have indicated.

The activities you have detailed don't even come close to being a risk of any sort.

Read our lesson on transmission. There's a link to it in the Welcome thread which opens this section.

Drop the worrying and get on with your life.

Cheers,

[dragon67]

Thanks Andy for your prompt and considerate response. I'm hardly in high school any more, but I have to say education on this subject was sorely lacking where I grew up so I would still consider myself rather ignorant in this area (as my post suggests!) Anyway let me just say after spending a few days on the web and reading all sorts of contradictory and speculative info about this subject, I was quite relieved to stumble upon this website. Finally some reliable info in a controlled environment.

You guys are providing an incredible service and please keep up the good work. I'm sure I speak for many when I say that.

[Andy Velez]

You're welcome. I'm glad you found our exchange to be helpful.

The only way we're going to put and end to the epidemic is by getting the infection rate way down. And the way to do that is by combining better knowledge about transmission with a committed intention to practice safer sex consistently.

Good luck to you! 

[dragon67]

Hi everyone and thank you Andy once again for taking the time to read through my post last month. I have been able to move beyond my situation last month, but have not been able to let it go completely. I think I just need to get clarification on a couple points...

The other day when I was eating lunch with my friend, she bit down on her tongue by accident and drew a couple drops of blood. For some weird reason, I made the connection there that the girl I was dancing with last month could have quite possibly bit down on her tongue too when she split the mint in her mouth.......and perhaps that blood got on to the mint which I subsequently popped into my mouth.

I have learned from this forum that saliva has multiple proteins that disable the virus, but I was just a bit worried because I had a burn in my mouth from eating hot soup 5 hrs. previous, and i was also drinking beers at the time I was with this girl. As I thought about my situation I became concerned that perhaps these variables could have trumped the saliva-properties and left me at some risk if a bit of blood had gotten into my mouth.

If anyone would care to chime in, it would be much appreciated. Thanks for your patience.

[RapidRod]

NO RISK.

[Andy Velez]

More what ifs and absolutely nothing based in HIV science.

Get on with your life. Really.

[dragon67]

Thanks guys for your attention. I just wanted to add to my situation, however, that I have been a bit concerned because of a few unusual ailments I have developed in the nearly seven weeks since my situation - general periods of dry mouth, chronic post-nasal drip, and recently, a thin whitish coat that has developed on my tongue especially in the morning that is painless and otherwise unnoticeable except for a discoloration.

The rational part in me feels that these ailments are more than anything anxiety-related, as I haven't gotten enough sleep lately, and haven't completely managed to put my suspicions and doubts of being in a risky situation behind me (although I have made quite a bit of headway with your advice, the rest of this site, and some genuine effort on my part). And in some even more clear thinking moments, I feel that whatever these ailments may be, they have nothing to do with HIV because as was discussed with my situation and further clarification of it, there was no risk of contracting HIV.

But, I think my anxieties may have got the better of me because the ailments are quite unusual for me, particularly the tongue discoloration.

Am I correct then in reasoning that neither these symptoms (or any others that may occur) nor the timing of their onset since my situation are relevant to HIV since there wasn't a risk in the first place?

Thanks again for your patience. I know I must sound like a broken record, but I assure you the wheels are turning upstairs and I have found the advice here helpful in learning about HIV and myself. 

[Andy Velez]

Go see your doctor if you have physical concerns. Nothing you have descirbed is either unusual or anything that in any way whatsoever is suggestive of HIV.

Period.

[dragon67]

Thanks Andy and Rod for your kind replies - not just to me, but to everyone on this forum. It has been very helpful and educational for me.

Unfortunately, I am really having a tough time moving beyond my situation. There is not really anything I can pinpoint my discomfort on other than phobia. My slightly whitish tongue seems more due to anxiety than everything.

I have carefully read your posts directed to myself and others with similar criteria and realize that my concerns are unfounded and I have even given myself multiple two/three week timeouts to stop thinking about this and stop browsing the internet to confirm my worst fears! But for whatever reason, I am just having a hard time putting it behind me and it is starting to affect my quality of life.

That being said, I am trying to summon a bit of courage to go do a rapid test this evening. I am now at about 13.5 weeks beyond my incident, and based on what was stated here, that is an approrpriate window to have this test performed.

I'm a bit nervous about the test, if for no other reason than it is a test, but I realize that you guys have already done all you can to educate me and now I have to take the next step. It's a difficult step to take, but these have been a difficult three months to get through, so I will do my best.

Thanks guys. 

[dragon67]

Just took the test and the result is I am HIV negative. I suspected it all along of course, but there was a small, irrational part of my mind that was raising stupid hypothetical questions and nagging until I couldnt take it anymore an finally decided to test.

Thanks again to everyone on this forum for all of their very kind efforts.

[Andy Velez]

Well that's no surprise but of course a negative result is always a happy thing.

Just make sure when you have intercourse, whether vaginal or anal, that the insertive partner is always without exception using a condom and you'll be well protected as far as HIV is concerned.

Cheers,

[dragon67]

Hi everyone. I had the HIV test done two weeks ago and just had a quick question about possible environmental exposure at the testing site.

As I looked today at this white cardboard/paper card that the testing site gave me after leaving the test, I noticed a couple reddish smears in the bottom right corner. I can already feel the anxiety sort of rush up, so I wanted to just get the question off my chest rather than let it fester as before.

I don't remember coming into contact with any blood at the testing site, but perhaps I did and that would explain the stain on the card. I know environmental transmission is in the unlikely category, but is there even a remote risk that I could be at risk for HIV if I unknowingly touched a drop of blood on a counter or something?? Didnt have any significant open wounds on my skin except that normal set of little nicks and cuts that everyone has.

Any response is greatly appreciated.

[Ann]

dragon,

No, there isn't even a remote risk where environmental exposure is concerned.

Ann

[dragon67]

Thanks Ann for your very prompt reply. So environmental transmission would only be a possibility in those rare cases where you have a serious, open wound and a significant amount of infected blood enters the wound?

In other words, environmental transmission simply wouldnt happen without you being aware of it and you wouldnt have to guess about the quantity of blood present, etc.? I know that's a poorly worded question, but I'm basically asking - if these little drops of blood that I and others come into contact with every now and again and dont know from where they originate are NO risk situations?

[Ann]

Dragon,

Environmental transmission does not happen regardless of the quantity of blood.

You did NOT have a risk for hiv infection at the place where you tested. Please do not keep going on about this no risk situation. You never needed to test over your original concern in the first place.

Ann

[dragon67]

Thanks Ann. I've started seeing a counselor to talk about some of these anxieties, because I've started to get hung up on one silly incident after the next and I want to break that pattern.

Just one quick incident, however - I was getting a massage recently and the masseuse was using two of her fingers to massage the upper bridge of my nose between my eyes. Her fingers didnt actually touch my eyes, but alarm bells started to go off because she was quite close and I would have liked to ask her to stop but didnt (I surely will next time!) and she proceeded for another 15 - 20 seconds. It wasnt really uncomfortable, but I was just wondering if there was any risk for her to be so close to the mucous membrane of the eyes.

My eyes were shut and I didnt feel any blood drip on to my face or interact with my eyes. I'm not sure if she had any dried or open cuts on her fingers that were near my eye. Anything to worry about here?

Thanks again for your patience.

[Matty the Damned]

Dragon,

There is absolutely nothing to worry about. You won't get HIV from someone massaging the bridge of your nose.

Look doll, it's good that you've started seeing a therapist but you have to understand that you simply can't use this forum to post about every little non-risk that flips you out. You've gotta deal with that in one place and that place is your therapists office.

Ya dig?

MtD

[dragon67]

Thanks Matty. I was a little shook up after her fingers got close to my eyes because I was just regaining my nerve after a previous silly incident that Ann kindly addressed with me. Then I was thinking, here we go again and I will just sort of put things on hold for a few weeks and stress over this.

But as you pointed out there is nothing to worry over with this incident as I know that I didnt get any blood into my eye. I didnt notice any irritation to my eye and of course getting blood into one's eye is not guesswork. It either happens or doesnt because it would sting like crazy, and I didnt feel anything.

I just got spooked with her hands being so close to my eyes, and as my therapist would probably say, I just seized on this as an incident to keep my fears going. Anyway, I'm sorry to bother you with the situation and I will try to use this as an opportunity to get over this crazy string of frights over no-risk situations.

Matty, thanks again for your kind words and prompt reply. It means a lot

[Ann]

Dragon,

If you're read the Welcome Thread like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned. I do not believe your therapist would want you here feeding your fears and we will not sit by and enable you to do so. Keep up with the therapy.

Ann

[dragon67]

Ann,

I know I'm walking a fine line, and I will put myself on a timeout after this post because I feel like I have learned everything I can at this point.

Just wanted to ask one final question to get it off my chest - in the situation I described to you previously, I did not remember coming into contact with any blood at the testing site other than a small smear I saw on a testing card that I took home (I cant even be sure that's blood, so I won't read too much into it) After your kind reply, I put the incident behind me, but I've just contracted a head cold this weekend with a very slight off/on fever. I don't normally get sick and the cold came on just about 4 weeks after I went to the testing site. Is this just a coincidence???

As I said, I will take myself off after this because I agree that I have the information from you guys and now I need to do the work on my own to internalize what is fact and what is not.

If anyone would care to chime in, I would greatly appreciate it. And once again, I will take myself off after that point as everyone has been very helpful to me already. Thanks again for your attention.

[Ann]

dragon,

Of course it's just a coincidence. Blood smears on a card or anywhere else in the environment do not pose a risk for hiv infection.

I'm giving you that time out I warned you about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out or you will be permanently banned.

Ann