POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: red_Dragon888 on May 22, 2007, 11:33:52 am
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I think the glass is half full, so if there is no cure for HIV atleast they will come up with better drugs with less side effects.
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I voted never. Just don't see a cure happening in my lifetime. They may come up with a vaccine, but I doubt there will be anyway to cure someone that has already been infected. :'(
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You might find this recent thread and its poll results interesting: http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8820.0;viewResults
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I am not normally a pessimistic person, but I don't believe I will live to see a cure for HIV in my lifetime.
On the other hand it’s not something I give much thought to. I am here today and when my time comes I won’t be. I made peace with that long ago, and since that was always going to be the case anyhow, I see no use wondering or speculating about things beyond my control. I need all my energy to keep living with HIV in my body here and now.
Daniel
PS: I voted "more"
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One can hardly predict .....after all it will be a batlle beetwen bif pharma companies , a cure finder , FDA and a public opinion......maybe we already do have it but with no money to finish a research.......
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As sloppy as the virus is in reproducing and as ineffective as humans can be about protecting themselves, I don't believe there will be a cure in my lifetime. That said, I've put in 42 years on Earth so far and expect at least another 30.... unless I piss off the wrong person who has a weapon.
Cheers,
David
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In recorded history has man ever cured a virus? No. He has created vaccine's that prevent new infections but to cure a virus, not thinking it will ever happen.
SD (who hopes he is wrong)
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Never.
MtD
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What I think and what I hope are 2 different things, so I have several possible answers.
Think: Never (for many reasons I don't wish to go into here)
Hope: Anything between 1 year and more than 10 years.
As I couldn't click every option and your question was what do I think, I went with 'never'. As in never in my lifetime anyway.
Melia
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I don't see one in my life time...but I was always told "Never say Never" so I don't think I will ever give up hope...because some days that's what keeps me going.
Hugs
Jan :-*
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I think we will see it. Look at all the studies going on for gene therapy. I am sure it will happen from someone stumbling on it.
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I just wonder why they (pharma) would want to cure it when they make so much money off of the meds aspect? I am sure some of you have roominated about the possibility that the cure or a super substantial break through in blocking the virus i.e. once a week pill popping is right around the corner, but the plug was pulled on their research because of what that would mean to the pharma business?? I hope there are checks and balances on this kind of practice, I do not know....
I take my pills each day. And, as long as that continues to work without major difficulties, so be it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn7F75stXxI
Eric
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In recorded history has man ever cured a virus? No. He has created vaccine's that prevent new infections but to cure a virus, not thinking it will ever happen.
SD (who hopes he is wrong)
I hope your wrong also....but i must say i agree....better control, more convenient treatments yes, but a cure i doubt it
-josh
(who isnt being pessimistic but more realistic)
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Well, I'm not going to hold my breath....
but in 1987, I never dreamed I would still be around in 2007, thanks to miracle drugs...so as Jan says, "Never say Never".
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I think that it's important to consider the history of medical breathroughs in pondering this question. I think everyone makes some excellent cases for why a cure may or may not come to light in the near future. But when I consider the potential scale of such an accomplishment as "curing" HIV (which is distinctly separate from creating a preventive vaccine) I can't help but think that history bares out that this will eventually happen.
Some milestones to remember:
1796
Edward Jenner's deliberate infection of an eight-year-old boy with the pus from a cowpox sore led to one of the world's most important and widely-used medical innovations-- the vaccination. After noticing that people who contracted cowpox rarely caught smallpox, the human strain, Jenner correctly predicted small doses of the infection could prevent contraction of the disease. In the years since, vaccines have been used to help prevent diseases like rubella, the measles, mumps and the common flu.
1865
By the middle of the 18th century, English surgeon Joseph Lister realized bacterial infections that surfaced during medical operations often led to death. To remedy post-op fatalities, Lister pioneered medical antiseptic by using carbolic acid to clean operating tools and surgical wounds. His discovery helped improve mortality rates, reducing infection-related deaths by as much as 60 percent in European hospitals, before the process caught on in the United States.
1895
Using his hand to block rays from an experimental cathode tube, German physics professor Wilhelm Roentgen watched in wonder as the currents passed through his palm. The result was the world's first X-ray. For his amazing discovery, Roentgen was awarded the first Nobel Prize in Physics in 1901.
1897
A homemade remedy, the world's most recognizable drug was created by chemist Felix Hoffmann from a powder used to ease symptoms of his father's rheumatism. With the pain-dulling properties of the substance identified, Hoffmann created a compound of the drug, and named it aspirin. Common modern uses of the drug include heart attack and stroke prevention.
1922
Fred Banting and Charles Best discovered insulin in 1922, helping to successfully treat diabetes in human patients.
1928
Sir Alexander Fleming, while investigating ways to kill bacteria, realized that Penicillin Notatum produced a chemical that helped restrain the growth of other bacteria. Cultivating the mold, he revolutionized modern medicine by creating the world's first bacteria-fighters-- antibiotics.
1953
During the early part of the 20th century one in 5000 people suffered from polio, a physically and mentally degenerative disease. In 1953 a breakthrough occurred when Jonas Salk, a medical student, used several strains of the virus to create a vaccine. By 1955 more than 2 million children had been vaccinated, eventually leading to the virus' eradication in the United States.
1967
Christian Barnard become one of the most famous surgeons in history when he performed the first human heart transplant in 1967. After the operation Barnard remarked of the moment: "We did not think it was a great event and there was no special feeling. I was happy when I saw the heart beating again." Louis Washkansksy, the world's first heart transplant recipient, only lived for 18 days after a case of post-op pneumonia set in as a result of a weakened immune system.
1980
By 1980, vaccination programs led by the World Health Organization and the United Nations helped eradicate smallpox worldwide.
1987
The first laser eye surgery was performed on a patient in 1987, but it was not until a decade later that the experimental technique was perfected, offering patients a safe alternative to contacts and glasses.
1997
Scottish scientists introduced the world to the real-life possibility of cloning in 1997 when Dolly, the first animal created from duplicated cells, was born. In the years since, scientists, particularly those working in South Korea, Europe and the United States, have had success cloning other animals and varieties of human cells, offering a starting point for possible human cloning in the future.
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I think it will eventually happen but, IMHO, not for at least 10 years.
The complexities of HIV reservoirs and/or evoking an immune response to the virus are areas that I think need to be studied much more before a "cure" will be attained. These areas, at least from the information I read, still leave a lot that needs to be uncovered/learned. Then again, some scientist could stumble upon something and wa-la.
To me, gene therapy or a therapeutic treatment will probably come along first before a treatment to "flush" the virus becomes a reality.
Our immune system has a much better track record of clearing some viruses (e.g. flu, cold, some HPV in some people, and others.) than human developed treatments (HCV appears to be one of the only viruses that can be quote unquote "cured" via man-made treatments -- and even then it's only 50/50 that pegylated interferon "clears" the HCV virus from said individual - and even then the interferon treatment is basically just a super immune system booster.). So I hedge my bets on an immune treatment that doesn't clear the virus 100%, but keeps it undetectable.
Only time will tell --- no one is clairvoyant -- but there is a a LOT of research going on out there to be optimistic about (even beyond the pharmas and their sometimes narrow "keep 'em on the meds for life " interests).
:)
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In recorded history has man ever cured a virus? No. He has created vaccine's that prevent new infections but to cure a virus, not thinking it will ever happen.
SD (who hopes he is wrong)
Actually, a lot of chronic viral infections can be cured. A good example is Hepatitis C, which can be eradicated in the vast majority of patients now, albeit through a pretty nasty treatment.
I voted for 10 years. Personally I think it will be somewhere between 5-10 years. I find it pretty optimistic that we're even having this discussion - who would have even bothered 10-15 years ago?
The amount of research going on is pretty astounding, and a lot of progress is being made. It's interesting that in the recent NIH announcement that they were going to try and use the new drugs being developed to "hit hard, hit early" in the newly infected, and maybe cure a proportion of them that the commentary accompanying the announcement said that because new ARVs are so good, the safety profile for a cure is set pretty high.
So I have hope.
Matt.
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To be blunt, the drug companies would NEVER allow a outright "cure". If they had one now, we would never know and I an tending to think this is a huge conspiracy involving the drug companies, FDA and a dark underground. And too, the money$$$.
I feel this because recently a anti depressant (cant remember the name, but it was all over the news) was told to be non addictive. The makers lied, the FDA approved it, then people started getting addicted and dying. This company was making billions off just this one drug. It showed money is the bottom line. Deaths were of no matter to them. it was the huge sales and that billions. Thats point one.
Now a day, you never hear of any "cure", but.... they can almost "control" any illness thru medication, needed to be taken for life. Thats big money to the drug companies. It buys a lot of corruption up and down the line in government. I find it amazing they can "control" hiv, cancers, diabetes, you name it, thru drugs. But yet the "cure" is never found. The only cures I would see coming, would be from outside the US. Thats where this dark side of the issue comes in. Remember the fight back in giving credit to the discoverer of the hiv virus? Two research teams, here and in France, wanted the sole credit.
If some research in another country threatened that billions a drug company makes here, well, it would make a good mission impossible movie. But all too true.
I'm just thankful illnesses like polio, back in the 40's, was cured. If it were today, they would have a "treatment" people with polio would have to take for life, and in flows those billions for the drug companies. Or how about antibiotics? Imagine having to take meds for life, just to treat your sore throat or infection? Instead of antibiotics to fight and cure your infection.
No, we'll never see a "cure", but we will see better and more costly treatment. Just when it all will break the bank of healthcare is another question. At some point no insurance is going to be able to cover these rising med costs. Even today, co pays are going up, many covered drugs are falling off the "covered" insurance list, and congress does nothing to help the people. The drug companies with huge kabillions are making sure of that.
I think its totally naive to think the FDA and the $$$ and the drug companies are a separate identity, looking out for peoples protection. No other source probably generates more money than drug companies. Not tobacco, gun sales, taxes, you name it. And as long as the money is #1, don’t expect any cures coming from any where.
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as long as the money is #1, don’t expect any cures coming from any where.
Actually, profitability is exactly why you should expect a cure - that is, if it can be done. Drug companies are exactly that: companies, as in, more than one. There's thousands of them. They compete with each other and couldn't care less if their competitors went to the wall. They are purely driven by profits and the vast majority of them have no stake in existing HAART meds. Whatever company was to find a cure would be hitting the jackpot big time. Yes, that might well ruin things for any competitors with a stake in HAART but why on earth would that lucky company care in the least?
Frankly, the notion that thousands of drug companies right across the world are all involved in some sort of conspiracy to deprive us of a cure is just ridiculous.
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I wud give it at a bare minimum of 10 yrs. I remain hopeful to this day that it will come sooner than that, but that is my hope. I seem to hope for the best, but I do not put too much into it.
If profitability is what drives this, the company or companies that can successfully come up w/ a "cure" can effectivly make a big profit, hence putting their competitors out of business. Profitability shud Not b the main driving force, unfortunately it is.
Rob
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I voted more.
As discussed on Moffie's thread - HIV bonds itself with your DNA and I don't think it is currently within our grasp to "cure" HIV from our bodies as biomedical science just isn't at that stage yet.
I do think however that within the next ten years or so that we will have treatments available that will make current ones look anything from quaint to medieval in their comparisons (both in application and side effects) Most likely I think that within the next ten years (and I lean closer to 5-10) that there will be RNA/DNA treatments that don't cure the body of HIV but do keep it from being active.
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I love you Iggy! ;)
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I'll go against the mainstream and say within five years or less, reason being that science today has an exponential quality to it. The one glaring thing I see about this disease is the fact that scientists do not yet know everything there is about it, but that is changing. In the last year or so the number of critical discoveries numebers about a dozen, and any one of these can lead the way to a cure. And just because no virus has ever been defeated does not mean there won't be a first! Keep your eye on Dr. Yong Kang's vaccine trial, which will start this year. There's $50 million bucks behind this trial, plenty of reason to hope they're on to something! Peace, J.
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Maybe they could come up with something through stem cell research. IF we get a democrat in office who believes in that, that is.
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Very interesting insights/observations/opinions all around. Good info to ponder. Here's another take posted on The Body by Dr. Pierone answering the "Do you think there will be a cure question?" that touches on/expands on some of the opinions discussed above -- figured I'd add it to the mix for all to ponder:
Response from Dr. Pierone
The Body - Ask The Experts
2003
Hello, thanks for you post. What does cure mean in the context of an infectious disease? What we mean by cure is that one takes a therapy or series of treatments for a demarcated period of time and after this treatment is completed, the condition does not come back. This might involve one dose of diflucan to cure a vaginal yeast infection in a healthy female or one year of arduous interferon-based treatment for hepatitis C.
If, in order to cure HIV, we have to extirpate every dormant HIV genome from every piece of human DNA in which it is secreted, then we likely have an insurmountable problem. But, what if we could leave the dormant HIV genome in place, but find a way to block the molecular events that enable it to become activated and infectious? This would involve genetic engineering and gene therapy techniques. For example, if the genetic targets of HIV activation can be identified, activation gene blocking sequences developed, these blocking sequences linked to a vector, delivery via vector to latently infected cells, and incorporation of blocking sequences to latently infected genomes. If this could be done, this strategy might prevent dormant HIV DNA from ever activating and in effect, produce a "cure". Maybe the purging experiments that you mentioned could be part of this process by diminishing the burden of latently infected cells that need to be gummed up. In any case, gene therapy approaches are extremely exciting (for other diseases as well) but are years away from reality for "cure" of HIV infection.
Absent a cure, can people with HIV infection be expected to take antiretrovirals every day for over a decade? I think this is not an unrealistic expectation. We treat people with hypertension for decades and don't think twice about it. The first generation blood pressure medications from the 1950's had horrendous side effects and were not particularly effective (sound familiar?). We should expect ongoing incremental advances in the side effect profile of antiretrovirals and this will make long-term therapy less challenging.
On the other hand, perhaps decade-long continuous treatment for HIV infection may not be necessary. One study underway is the SMART study, which is exploring the possibility of CD4 count driven treatment. In this trial, half of the participants receive antiretroviral therapy when CD4 counts drop below 250 and stop medications when counts rise above 350. This will result is a series of treatment interruptions lasting from months to years in this arm of the study. The rest of the volunteers will receive continuous treatment with antiretrovirals with the intention to maintain viral suppression. This study may help elucidate how chronic HIV infection ought to be treated.
Another wild card that could transform HIV management is the potential for therapeutic vaccines. If the powerful and targeted forces of the immune system could be brought to bear against the virus this might permit more time off medications and still allow long-term control of HIV. All in all, it is difficult to predict what will happen decades hence in HIV management.
Maybe not 70 billion on virology, but I think at a minimum the United States should be spending tens of billions right now to save people in underdeveloped parts of the world that are dying of preventable and treatable diseases like HIV. Beyond the immediate humanitarian benefits, this investment would go a long way towards stabilization of societies and should lessen the risk of violence and terrorism.
Just FYI the post above is from 2003 -- 4 years old (lifetime in HIV treatment progress), but I posted it anyway because it still seemed applicable.
Mike :)
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As discussed on Moffie's thread - HIV bonds itself with your DNA and I don't think it is currently within our grasp to "cure" HIV from our bodies as biomedical science just isn't at that stage yet.
That's true - in a way HIV is an acquired genetic disease. But it's good to keep in mind that HIV only infects certain types of cell, and not the majority of those cells. It's not that you have to untangle the HIV from our own genes - you just have to find a way of killing every infected cell, all at once, whilst suppressing plasma load. Then the healthy CD4s get a chance to repopulate the system. It's a bit like cancer in that regard.
I think this is a difficult thing to do, but not impossible. We need advances in basic science to work out the cells infected, where they're infected and how best to target them. And more powerful ARVs that penetrate every compartment of the body.
M.
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I just glad that most thinks there is hope.
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I believe there will be resistance proff meds with little or no side effects. I think we can consider that a "cure". ;) But I think it is imposible to erradicate HIV from our cells. It is part of us.
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Matt Mee raises an important point. Yes, HIV is incorporated in the cells, but only on particular cells. It's entirely possible that there is some as-of-yet undiscovered biochemical marker on infected cells, that could be targeted by either drugs or the body itself, if the proper immune response is triggered. Not to harp on Dr. Kang (I swear I don't have any money invested in Curocom lol) but I think that it is along these lines that his vaccine has been created. I am not sure about the specifics but according to his research, he projects that the vaccine will be able to create an immune response that will target and kill infected cells. J.
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the cure is as close as the nearest lottery store... just sayin...
there's a sucker born every day!
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Having hope or optimism does not make one a sucker. Bitterness never helped anyone. Though I may not know what everyone\'s circumsances are here, I see it everyday at work. Those who have a positive attitude have a much better prognosis
in fighting a disease, if they are to beat the odds at all. If we all try to keep things positive here, we will all benefit, because we \"all matter.\"
hugs,
Carol
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I believe they will find a cure but just not sure how long it will take. Over my lifetime, there has so many changes in how diseases and chronic conditions are treated. I continue to look at the advances made in HIV over the past 25 years plus how biology has evolved and changed. It's incredible to think we're dealing at the molecular level now which is a fairly recent (last 20 years) event.
Look at the advances with cancer. Long-term survival was considered a fluke and most people just died during or after treatment. Science is still learning how the body works and what causes various responses to kick-off in response to a change in the body. The way HIV Is treated today is another example of how the science has evolved. Considering 200 years ago, there simply were no medicines to treat anything, we have come a long way. Sadly, not fast enough for some.
I don't subscribe to the evil empire of drug companies in the world. They are motivated as much as the next person to find a cure and will just divert their resources to other diseases if a cure for HIV is found. In the meantime, the advances in the sciences have lead to better understanding of Hepititis, Herpes, and other diseases.
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i guess "never" means not in your lifetime
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I hope that a "cure" wud b found w/in 5-10 yrs, but I am just taking a wild guess at closer to 10 yrs. Hopefully I will b surprised. I try to stay up to date a a huge selection of HIV sites, probably a bit more than I shud. I remain hopeful.
Rob
NEVER say NEVER