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Author Topic: Massage with open cut. Please help me!  (Read 2627 times)

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Offline longball_13

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Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« on: March 30, 2022, 04:51:16 pm »
Just over three weeks ago I went into a walk in massage place. I was a nervous wreck and felt bad about being there so I literally had nothing sexual happen to me. I got a regular full body massage.

The one thing that worries me and I can't stop thinking about it, is that afterwards I noticed on my thumb had a hangnail that was bleeding, there was blood right next to my nail. The masseuse massaged my hands and specifically my thumb at one point. I am worried about cuts on her hand and that because I was actively bleeding that this could be a route of infection for HIV I was putting it behind me but I just developed a sore throat.

Now here's where I would like to see you can clarify for me because the web has scary information out there in regards to my situation.

1.) Is a actively bleeding hangnail considered an open wound?

2.) Is a cut on the massage therapist hand and blood coming out considered outside the body. For instance if she's massaging my hand with a bloody hand, is that technically outside of the body and no risk of infection?

3.) When you mention sufficient quantities. Is just one drop of blood let's say from her hand on my open hangnail cut enough to transmit? Or are you referring to more than that? 

This is my first time posting but I have used your forum for years to ease my mind. I really admire what you do here, it's gotten me through some of my darkest moments.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2022, 10:49:18 pm »
Hiya,

There was no HIV risk. Although getting a regular massage isn't a day to day activity for most people, the same conditions apply, and hence it is not an HIV risk.

HIV is fragile, and day to day, cuts, minor wounds, scrapes, bumps, cracks, ect, aren't a route to acquiring HIV.

There are no " what ifs" about it, and that's where this concern ends. We could talk again, but only if you and the massage therapist both had wounds requiring medical attention.

1) No
2) Massaging your hand with a bloody hand...It didn't happen!
3) Your hangnail cut isn't a route, end of concern.

Here's what you need to know to avoid HIV infection:
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse correctly and consistently, with no exceptions. Consider talking to your healthcare provider about PrEP as an additional layer of protection against HIV

Keep in mind that some sexual practices described as safe in terms of acquiring HIV still pose a risk for other easier acquired STIs. So please do get tested at least yearly for STIs including but not limited to HIV, and more frequently if condomless intercourse occurs.

Also, note that it is possible to have an STI and show no signs or symptoms, and the only way of knowing is by testing.

Kind regards

Jim

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Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2022, 10:48:56 am »
First off your the man. Honestly putting up with people like me who have health anxiety or irrational fears is truly admirably. The more I read your post's the more I feel the information you provide will help de stigmatize this virus because the internet and reputable sources still have a lot of fear or maybe cautious information out there.

I just wanted to follow up on the hangnail on my thumb. Mine was actively bleeding and from what I read that would be considered an open wound, correct? I mean it was a small wound but I did have blood. Would this wound, cut, scrap etc be considered a deep enough wound to infect? Also, how can I be sure the massage therapist wasn't bleeding on her hand? What if she had dry cracked bleeding skin or a bleeding hangnail as well, which while closing your eyes and being wiped down by a towel would be very hard to tell. Would that be a risk or would it not be sufficient quantities? 

The incident happened 03/03/2022, I tested using a 4th generation test on 03/07/2022 and was non reactive. Since than I have done nothing else of concern, so this is the only incident that is affected me mentally at the moment.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2022, 11:24:12 am »
You are testing my patience... 

This is an HIV forum. The issue isn't HIV. It's your mental and emotional well being. I do try to be nice, but I am not your therapist.

Quote
Mine was actively bleeding and from what I read that would be considered an open wound, correct?

I've already answered this.

"HIV is fragile, and Day to Day, cuts, minor wounds, scrapes, bumps, cracks, ect, aren't a route to acquiring HIV.

There are no " what ifs" about it, and that's where this concern ends. We could talk again, but only if you and the massage therapist both had wounds requiring medical attention."


In theory (As in it's never happened), if you both had deep open wounds, lets say;  Knife wounds with blood pissing out and instead of seeking medical care, you decided to rub each other's wounds together whilst bleeding all over each other.
In that unique situation, I would be concerned about far more infective viruses and the mental health of both of you rather than HIV.

Quote
I mean, it was a small wound but I did have blood. Would this wound, cut, scrap etc be considered a deep enough wound to infect?

I have already answered. You need to apply the information provided.

Quote
Also, how can I be sure the massage therapist wasn't bleeding on her hand?


Again already answered.

"We could talk again, but only if you and the massage therapist both had wounds requiring medical attention[/b]."

Quote
What if she had dry cracked bleeding skin or a bleeding hangnail as well, which while closing your eyes and being wiped down by a towel would be very hard to tell.

Not an HIV risk. It's the same reason shaking hands isn't an HIV risk. It lacks a route, and there are indeed other barriers like the hostile environment toward HIV.

I had explained this already.

"HIV is fragile, and day to day, cuts, minor wounds, scrapes, bumps, cracks, ect, aren't a route to acquiring HIV. There are no " what ifs" about it, and that's where this concern ends."

Please don't post about this again. Day to Day contact, including skin contact or rubbing skin and hands together, isn't how HIV is acquired. If it was, we would have been locked away a long time ago.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 11:30:11 am by Jim Allen »
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Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2022, 11:40:28 am »
Good Day Sir,

Just wanted to ask one more question about a possible risk. I did coke sharing the same bill with my brother and his wife. They have been known to engage in risky sex with others as part of their lifestyle. I know they haven't been tested in a long time. Is sharing the same bill considered an HIV risk? If we both had bloody noses would this be sufficient? All websites always say when it comes to drugs it's injecting. However is snorting with blood considered the same as injecting? We used the bill immediately after each other. Pardon my ignorance on this.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2022, 12:26:27 pm »
Hiya,

Injecting contaminated fluids that are stored essentially in a vacuum directly into your bloodstream is totally different from sticking a cotton bill in your nose.

Snorting cocaine isn't directly an HIV risk, there is a risk for other infections though. From an HIV point of view, the concern is more about what other behaviours you are engaging in whilst under the influence.

Hope that helps. Jim.
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Offline longball_13

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Re: Insertive intercourse with other factors conern
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2022, 11:41:49 am »
Hi Jim,

I'm back looking for advice. I am just about 48 hours post exposure and I am a little nervous because my window to get PEP is closing. I live in Canada and I am being told I won't qualify for it based on my exposure.

Here's what happened. I had a trip to the US and went to a strip club. While in the VIP section I had a professional offer sex and before I knew what was happening she placed a condom and insert my penis in her. I finished shortly after and although I felt like that was a fairly low risk even because the condom was on the whole time, the next day I noticed I had a small herpes outbreak where the condom was not protecting, not on my penis just above it. I am concerned that perhaps some of her vaginal secretion could of touched that small section. I honestly didn't even know it was there or I wouldn't of participated in what transpired. I am worried. What should I do? I am thinking of checking myself into an emergency hospital and trying my best to get PEP.

What is my risk here? I know I have read that HIV likes to infect herpes sores. 

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2022, 01:10:34 pm »
Read your post three times, insertive vaginal intercourse with condom usage, and visible herpes outbreak the next day. 

I don't see from what you posted any reason to be testing for HIV outside of the standard yearly routine, let alone PEP or visits to the ER. 

Regarding herpes, you could consider talking to your healthcare provider about daily medication (acyclovir) to help prevent future outbreaks and reduce the risk of passing it on to your partners, as herpes can be passed on during viral shedding (skin contact) even when you don't have a visible outbreak.


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Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2022, 01:20:45 pm »
Thanks Jim. Just to confirm that insertive wouldn't be a risk if the condom stayed intact and on?

Also just to confirm vaginal fluid on my sore outside the body wouldn't be an effective route for transmission?

I'm sorry for the follow ups, just trying to clarify.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2022, 02:20:17 pm »
That and a half dozen other reasons why what you posted isn't a reason to be stressing about HIV from this encounter.

Relax, move on with your life. Continue to use condoms for any intercourse, and treat herpes to reduce your risk of passing it on and out of the standard routine screen for STIs including HIV yearly.

The only other thing I could add is prehaps talk to your healthcare provider about PrEP. Pre-exposure prophylaxis is when you take HIV meds to reduce the odds of acquiring HIV and are taken before a potential exposure either through an on-demand schedule or daily medication, this is something your healthcare provider can explain in more detail.

The only reason I mention PrEP is not that I think you have any particular risk but it might give you some peace of mind and stop you from stressing over nothing in the future.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2022, 02:24:21 pm by Jim Allen »
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Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2022, 03:14:59 pm »
Thank you so much Jim. I just want to ask one more thing here, just because my window is closing. You don't think I need to be asking for PEP based on my encounter?

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2022, 03:18:41 pm »
You're welcome & already answered.

Quote
I don't see from what you posted any reason to be testing for HIV outside of the standard yearly routine, let alone PEP or visits to the ER.
Quote
Relax, move on with your life. Continue to use condoms for any intercourse, and treat herpes to reduce your risk of passing it on and out of the standard routine screen for STIs including HIV yearly.
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
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HIV Testing
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HIV prevention
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PEP and PrEP

Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2022, 09:00:33 pm »
Hi Jim,

I'm starting to feel better about my encounter. Just one thing I read about HSV infections and increasing the chance of infection I would like to clarify. The increase in the risk that is described in literature would be only applicable if inside the confides of the body for instance during vaginal intercourse or anal? If outside the body like in the pubic area like in my case even if blood or vaginal secretions got on the sore, would that be a route of infection? They mention genitals, is the pubic area still genitals? I just hoping you can give context to why hsv increases infection and in what cases.

Again, thank you sooo much for your help.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2022, 11:18:55 pm »
The why is the increased levels of cells HIV targets. Context, it doesn't create a risk where none existed in the first place and the odds even then would only be slightly different.

Now I had already commented on the herpes before and read your question thee times before answering, meaning I already took this into account when I said;

"Relax, move on with your life. Continue to use condoms for any intercourse, and treat herpes to reduce your risk of passing it on and out of the standard routine screen for STIs including HIV yearly.

Move on with your life! Stop looking for issues.
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Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2022, 11:38:38 am »
I actually read from a really reputable source the following

"Results from laboratory studies should not be used to assess specific personal risk of infection because (1) the amount of virus studied is not found in human specimens or elsewhere in nature, and (2) no one has been identified as infected with HIV due to contact with an environmental surface. Additionally, HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host."

Which I think gives you the confidence that even if I got some fluid on my sore, that it wouldn't remain infectiousness because technically it's outside it's host.

I just want to say thank you so much for your help talking me through this.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2022, 11:49:51 am »
You're welcome  :)

What you quoted doesn't give me any confidence, it's correct but it's only part of why you had no HIV risk from what you posted, and we have gone over environmental contact with fluids before if I read back this thread.  ;)

HIV transmission is simple, no need to google about it, relax and move on with your life.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 12:07:35 pm by Jim Allen »
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Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2022, 12:05:31 pm »
Hi Jim me again. I made another stupid mistake and slept with three escorts over the course of the last few days. Each time they used a condom and the condom didn't break. I just went to the doctors office and was prescribed PEP after asking for it. Now I am reading more about it and I am not sure if it's the right choice for me. What is my risk? I feel like my life is over. I am seriously debating not carrying on.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2022, 12:12:28 pm »
HIV can't transmit through an intact latex or polyurethane condom. Unless a condom obviously fails during intercourse, there is no reason to be stressing or testing for HIV outside of the standard yearly routine.

Move on with your life.

Continue to use condoms for any intercourse, and as you are sexually active, test out of standard routine yearly for HIV & STIs.
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Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2022, 12:19:59 pm »
Thanks Jim. If the condom failed it would be obvious correct? I was drinking so that always worries me but I seen them stay intact.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2022, 12:20:48 pm »
Already answered.
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Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2022, 12:24:07 pm »
Your problem from the activities mentioned within this thread isn't HIV, it's emotional or mental.

Consider talking to your healthcare provider about these ongoing fears and prehaps PrEP (Not PEP) as a way of reducing these fears +  referral to a therapist to help you .
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 12:36:33 pm by Jim Allen »
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Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2022, 09:23:05 am »
Hi Jim,

I know you will probably say already answered but this will be my last response. I just really need some reassurance as my window to take PEP is about to close:

-Would my encounters with the sex workers be considered high risk? Or because I wore a condom it's considered low to no risk? I guess I am asking would a health professional advise PEP for my case even though I wore condoms?

-Also a condom breaking is obvious correct? Meaning it would look shredded and I would have to dispose of a condom that wasn't intact? There wouldn't be small rips?

I am sorry for all of this. I am starting to wonder if I should ever have a sex again because of all the anxiety it causes me.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2022, 09:47:26 am »
Quote
I know you will probably say already answered but this will be my last response. I just really need some reassurance as my window to take PEP is about to close:

-Would my encounters with the sex workers be considered high risk? Or because I wore a condom it's considered low to no risk?

Quote
-Also a condom breaking is obvious correct? Meaning it would look shredded and I would have to dispose of a condom that wasn't intact? There wouldn't be small rips?

Already answered, see in blue.

Quote
HIV can't transmit through an intact latex or polyurethane condom. Unless a condom obviously fails during intercourse, there is no reason to be stressing or testing for HIV outside of the standard yearly routine.

Move on with your life.

Continue to use condoms for any intercourse, and as you are sexually active, test out of standard routine yearly for HIV & STIs.

Quote
I guess I am asking would a health professional advise PEP for my case even though I wore condoms?

What you posted doesn't even warrant testing, let alone PEP and although someone might give you PEP, I am unwilling to pretend.

PEP is often enough incorrectly prescribed for mental health reasons or ER (ED) knowledge gaps.

Example:
https://www.lenus.ie/bitstream/handle/10147/621064/ART9.html
Knowledge of HIV PEP Among Healthcare Workers - Twelve (18%) of 68 respondents answered five or more of six knowledge questions correctly

https://www.poz.com/article/decisions-pep-er-always-book
Hospital staff prescribed PEP 12% of the time to people who had no HIV risk.

Quote
I am starting to wonder if I should ever have a sex again because of all the anxiety it causes me.

I'll say it again, your problem from the activities mentioned within this thread isn't HIV, it's emotional or mental.

Consider talking to your healthcare provider about these ongoing fears and prehaps PrEP (Not PEP) to help reduce these fears going forward +  consider talking to a qualified therapist to help you.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 09:52:31 am by Jim Allen »
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Offline longball_13

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2022, 10:58:30 am »
One more question because over the recent encounters I can't function and I can't stop drinking. I have HPV or I believe I do its a small flat raised lesion on the middle of my penis that's been there for as long as I can remember. It doesn't grow or go away. Assuming the condom slipped up and this was inside the vagina. Would this be a route of infection? It's not an open sore or anything. Never changes. Always intact. So if this made contact inside her would this be a route for infection?

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Re: Massage with open cut. Please help me!
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2022, 11:19:59 am »
Not an HIV concern.

BTW Extremely doubtful it's HPV, have this raised bump or whatever it is checked by your doctor instead of just presuming. 

Also, please note:

Quote
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