New data shows Selenium supplements may suppress VL!

[J220]

*With the moderator's permission, I wanted to post this on this thread instead of the nutrition or research because it seems the following news report is extremely important, and I wanted it to be read by as many people as possible.


Selenium Supplements May Contribute To Reduced HIV Viral Load (from sciencedaily.com, link is http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070122183124.htm)


Science Daily — Taking daily selenium supplements appears to increase the level of the essential mineral in the blood and may suppress the progression of viral load in patients with HIV infection, according to an article in the January 22 issue of Archives of Internal Medicine, one of the JAMA/Archives journals.

Advances in antiretroviral therapy (ART) have given HIV patients a longer life expectancy, according to background information in the article. However, strict adherence to the therapy is required to keep HIV viral counts low, and there is a risk of toxic effects and metabolic dysfunction. "Thus, complete control of HIV over time using ART is unlikely, and pharmacotherapeutic limitations leave a significant void in the treatment arsenal," the authors write. Selenium deficiencies have been observed in patients with HIV spectrum disease and evidence suggests that selenium supplements can improve immune functioning.

Barry E. Hurwitz, Ph.D., University of Miami, and colleagues conducted a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of selenium supplements in 262 patients with HIV. Pretreatment assessment included pregnancy screening, blood tests to measure selenium levels, CD4 count (a measure of the state of the immune system; the lower the CD4 count, the more likely a patient with HIV/AIDS is to develop secondary infections or illnesses), HIV viral load (the number of copies of the HIV virus in the blood) and screening for hepatitis C. Participants were then randomly assigned to treatment groups; 141 took a capsule containing 200 micrograms of high-selenium yeast and 121 took a similar capsule containing inactive yeast and a filler material. After nine and 18 months, physical examinations and measures of the study outcomes--HIV viral load and CD4 count--were performed.

Of the 262 patients for whom treatment was initiated, 174 (91 in the selenium group and 83 in the placebo group) completed the nine-month study assessment. "The intervention resulted in no adverse events related to the study supplement," the authors write. The two groups had similar selenium levels at the beginning of the study, but after nine months of treatment, the average change in blood selenium level was greater in the treatment group. Higher blood selenium levels predicted a decreased HIV viral load, which in turn predicted increased CD4 count.

"The exact mechanism by which selenium exerts its effects on HIV-1 viral replication is not known, although the literature suggests several possibilities," the authors write. One hypothesis holds that selenium's antioxidant properties may repair damage done to immune cells by oxygen, which is produced at higher levels in the bodies of patients with HIV. However, future research is needed to confirm this relationship.

"Given the challenges of using conventional pharmacotherapy to achieve and maintain virologic suppression in HIV-spectrum disease, our results support the use of selenium as a simple, inexpensive and safe adjunct therapy," the authors conclude.

[Ihavehope]

Hi j

There are many articles about Selenium and I started to take it since I been diagnosed along with three othre supplements. I found this link that talks about supplements that raised CD4 counts and lower VL in the Nutrition section. For anyone else who has not read it, you should.

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=408921

[J220]

Hey Hope...yes, there have been many threads about Selenium. What I found interesting about the article is that to my knowledge this is the first well controlled trial conducted regarding Selenium, and the results were encouraging. I too have been taking Selenium supplements, 200mcg a day, which is in addition to the 50mcg I get from the multivitamins. It can't hurt! By the way, what other supplements are you taking, if you don't mind me asking? I take a multi, the selenium, and Omega 3 supplements. On occassion, when I remember to buy it, I take a sponnful or two of virgin coconut oil. I know I know, there is no real scientific evidence that this works, but again, as long as there is no reason to believe it will hurt I'll take it. I do know it has good nutrients.

[Ihavehope]

Hi J

How long have you been taking the extra 200mcg of Selenium and have you seen an improvement in your counts and decrease in VL?

[J220]

I have been taking the Selenium maybe about three months. The subsequent labs showed that the VL dropped from 25k to about 13k, although this could have been due to any number of reasons, including the normal vl fluctuation. The last labs, two weeks ago, showed another rise back up to 29K, and coincidentally I had stopped taking the supplements for about a week or two before those labs. But again, who knows if it had to do with it or not. In any case what I get from the article is not so much that Selenium will cause your VL to drop but that it prevents it from progressing, so that in itself is good. As soon as I read the article this morning I went straight to my cabinet to get the Selenium, and rest assured I won't skip on it again! lol

[Optimistic]

If you are taking a multivitamin supplement, there should be selenium in it already.  Is it more beneficial to take selenium seperately?? Just wondering.

Justin

[J220]

Well if I am not mistaken most multis have only around 20mcg of selenium -at least the centrum I am taking does, and I correct myself from the earlier mention of 50.

If you notice the article it mentions a dosage of 200mcg daily.

In addition, keep in mind that we generally need more nutrients than negative people, due to the ongoing efforts of the body in controlling the infection. So it would seem  good idea to go with the higher amounts.

[skeebo1969]

  I took Selenium daily and my vl went from 10,400 to 234,000.  In my case it did not help at all.

[redhotmuslbear]

*With the moderator's permission, I wanted to post this on this thread instead of the nutrition or research because it seems the following news report is extremely important, and I wanted it to be read by as many people as possible.
Selenium Supplements May Contribute To Reduced HIV Viral Load

Yesterday, in two different HIVer discussions I saw this "news" with embedded brand-name references to various supplement makers and product lines.  Something started to smell funny.

Today I look at the University of Miami's website to find that the study leader is a professor of psychology  (WTF?? a PhD, not an MD...like I'm trusting my health to him?) who published a study three weeks ago about selenium and cardiovascular disease.  Now, there's some serious funk going around, and I'm really ready to dismiss this "story" as worthless propaganda by the supplement industry.  The University of Miami and the outlets that have propagated this tale need to dig further on how this research was funded and the true validity of the results.  I am somewhat surprised by JAMA, though Science Daily is simply a mom-and-pop news aggregator portal.

LESSON:   Read scientific reports with a critical eye!

Cheers,
David

[bear60]

"Today I look at the University of Miami's website to find that the study leader is a professor of psychology  (WTF?? a PhD, not an MD...like I'm trusting my health to him?) who published a study three weeks ago about selenium and cardiovascular disease.  Now, there's some serious funk going around, and I'm really ready to dismiss this "story" as worthless propaganda by the supplement industry."  quote David

I was about to google that Barry Hurwitz guy and here you have already done it.  This is the oldest trick in the book to sell stuff.  Buyer beware.  Check with your doctor before taking anything over the "recommended daily " dose.

[Tim Horn]

Howdy folks...

First off, J220, did you actually ask the moderators to post this news story in Living with HIV?  It's definitely not a problem posting the selenium -- and the linked article -- here (and you didn't need a moderator's permission to do so)... but a few of us are confused regarding your comment re: "With the moderator's permission..." 

At any rate, I just thought I'd direct everyone to yet another news story regarding the selenium research, this one written by me for AIDSmeds.com:
http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/1667_11158.shtml

I have to say, I'm actually quite encouraged by the results.  It has been so incredibly difficult getting researchers -- and funders -- to take seriously the unanswered questions surrounding nutritional supplements.  This is actually one of the most scientifically sound clinicial trials of a nutritional supplement that has ever been conducted in the arena of HIV/AIDS research. 

Okay, so Barry Hurwitz is a PhD, not an MD... but I should point out that some of the finest HIV/AIDS researchers are PhDs.  No, a PhD has little hands-on experience with respect to patient care... but they really can't be beat with respect to designing and implementing sound, scientific clinical trials and other types of research.  Plus, the University of Miami has a great deal of experience investigating the hope -- and hype -- surrounding nutritional supplements for a variety of illnesses... I think these guys deserve quite a bit of credit, actually. 

Keep in mind, this study was actually funded by the National Institutes of Health.  Nutrition 21, a nutraceutical company is Westchester, provided the selenium used in the study.  Granted, Nutrition 21 is trying very hard to capitalize on the results of this study... but the news is definitely in their favor.  The fact is, their selenium product is one of the few that have actually been shown to be bioavailable -- capable of achieving adequate concentrations in the blood after oral dosing -- which is a heck of a lot better than what other nutraceutical companies with selenium-based products have provided. 

Oh, and I should point out that the Archives of Internal Medicine article is quite impressive.  I've read it, in its entirety, and thing it contains some really interesting data.  Unfortunately, the integrity of the actual science barely manages to make its way into the press releases and mainstream press articles. 

Personally, I'd like to see all of the nutraceutical companies with aggressive marketing tactics put their money where there mouth is and actually conduct research that back their claims.  Here we have a company that has played a small role in seeing this research through... and along with a little luck and "right place, right time" positioning... is poised to take advantage of these encouraging results.

Tim Horn 

[J220]

Hi Tim, no I didn't ask the moderator's persmission before hand, what I meant was in the idiom, "with your permssion, I'd like to..." as in actually requesting permission to do so at the moment. I know it's no big deal but I always try to follow the rules of the board, that's why I wrote that to acknowledge that the post was kind of in the gray area of "living with". Sorry about the confusion. J.

[jack]

I have taken selenium over the years and have never noticed much. Guess I will start taking it again along with all the other crap I take.

[Life]

Sooooo, if we are already <50 and on meds, should we take this stuff to?  And if so,  is it like over the counter (brand name).  Or is it even necessary at this juncture?  Just curious.....

[Longislander]

 I checked my one-a-day and it contains 105 mcg of Selenium.

[J220]

I checked my one-a-day and it contains 105 mcg of Selenium.

What brand is that, if I may ask? I take Centrum, which now I see is shortchanging me on my Selenium! Time to change.

Eric: that is really a good question, one for your doctor I suppose. Do share what he says, please. There are dozens of brands that sell Selenium supplements and they are all fairly cheap. Mine are Sundown brand, and I think I paid like 3 bucks or so for 100 tablets, 100mcg each. J.

[Life]

You know, if someone tells me its good for ya...  Esp my doc... I was just checking my Centrum label, been on that for years.. Wonder if we Centrum users are golden or not?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Servings Per Container: 180
 
Amount per Serving % Daily Value
 
 
Vitamin A (29% as Beta Carotene)  3500 IU 70%
Vitamin C   60 mg 100%
Vitamin D   400 IU 100%
Vitamin E   30 IU 100%
Vitamin K   25 mcg 31%
Thiamin (B1)   1.5 mg 100%
Riboflavin (B2)   1.7 mg 100%
Niacin (B3)   20 mg 100%
Vitamin B6   2 mg 100%
Folate,Folic Acid,Folacin   400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B12   6 mcg 100%
Biotin   30 mcg 10%
Pantothenic acid   10 mg 100%
Calcium   162 mg 16%
Iron   18 mg 100%
Phosphorus   109 mg 11%
Iodine   150 mcg 100%
Magnesium   100 mg 25%
Zinc   15 mg 100%
Selenium   20 mcg 29% *******************
Copper   2 mg 100%
Manganese   2 mg 100%
Chromium   120 mcg 100%
Molybdenum   75 mcg 100%
Chloride   72 mg 2%
Potassium   80 mg 2%
Nickel   5 mcg *
Tin   10 mcg *
Silicon   2 mg *
Vanadium   10 mcg *
Boron   150 mcg *
Lutein   250 mcg*
Lycopene   300 mcg*
 

[terpie82]

Some of my own thoughts:
1) PhD's particularly in the field of science (e.g. biology) are predominantly the ones that "research" cures or treatments. MD's are predominantly clinical physicians who "treat" patients based on scientific discovery researched by PhD's. However, in rare instances where an MD is motivated to find a cure, he/she can participate in research trials but often these are collaborations are co-led by a PhD who has research background -another option would be if the MD has extensive research background and well-funded research lab. That's why nowadays, a number of people are getting dual MD/PhD's (aka the "medical scientists") who not only are trained in field/lab/clinical research, but also participate in treating patients. So in this particular case, I would trust the PhD's words more so since he has the research background and is the Primary Investigator (PI), but would definitely take an MD's diagnosis over a PhD's any day.

2) I'm not opposed to alternative treatments (e.g. herbal remedies) or supplements (I take some myself). Just from reading skeebo's post, this tells me the treatment may not have the same effect on everyone and/or there is variation among the sources of selenium.  So before everyone goes out emptying the shelves in the drug aisle, do bear in mind (from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenium):

"Although selenium is an essential trace element it is toxic, if taken in excess. Exceeding the Tolerable Upper Intake Level of 400 micrograms per day can lead to selenosis[4]. Symptoms of selenosis include a garlic odour on the breath, gastrointestinal disorders, hair loss, sloughing of nails, fatigue, irritability and neurological damage. Extreme cases of selenosis can result in cirrhosis of the liver, pulmonary edema and death[5]...Selenium deficiency is relatively rare in healthy well-nourished individuals...The Dietary Reference Intake for adults is 55 micrograms per day."

So please take caution and do consult your physician (MD) or nutritionist. Definitely go to the wikipedia link to read more on it and there's a lil snippet on the correlation between selenium levels in soil to lower incidence of HIV/AIDS infections in sub-Saharan Africa (very interesting read). Thanks J220 for bringing up this fascinating topic.

PS, Longislander: 105 ug is still below the 400 ug upper intake level, so you "can" take more (and that's a big "can"), but also remember you are probably taking about 55 ug already from your daily diet and the upper intake level is like a max. That doesn't account for person-to-person variability. Someone's max may be 400 and someone else may be 300. And Eric: I think that's personal opinion. No one should suggest to you to take the supplement except your physician or nutritionist, and they probably would only suggest taking it if you have a selenium deficiency...so it may ultimately comes down to you. Do some research and see if taking the supplement is something you believe will help you. So far the research in this field is in its infantile stages, so making definite endorsements or suggestions is ill-advised.

[J.R.E.]

Terpie,

Thanks for that information. Don't need anyone popping these things like tic-tacs !!

By the way.... Welcome back, and  congratulations !!


Take care----Ray

[Longislander]

Terp~ thanks for all that insightful info. I have no doubt your PhD will be a breeze!!

My one-a-day is from BJ's (berkeley & Jensen). Like a Costco or Price Club place. Comparable to One-A-Day men's Health Formula (Bayer)

wOW ERIC, THAT WAS A LOT OF TYPING!! ( so I copied and pasted and compared to the right

Vitamin A (29% as Beta Carotene)  3500 IU 70%  Same (except 14% as BC)
Vitamin C   60 mg 100%                                     90mg at 150%
Vitamin D   400 IU 100%                                    same
Vitamin E   30 IU 100%                                      45 IU @ 150%
Vitamin K   25 mcg 31%                                     20 mcg @ 25%
Thiamin (B1)   1.5 mg 100%                               1.2 @ 80%
Riboflavin (B2)   1.7 mg 100%                             same
Niacin (B3)   20 mg 100%                                   16mg @ 80%
Vitamin B6   2 mg 100%                                     3mg @ 150%
Folate,Folic Acid,Folacin   400 mcg 100%               same
Vitamin B12   6 mcg 100%                                  18mcg @ 300%
Biotin   30 mcg 10%                                           same
Pantothenic acid   10 mg 100%                            5 mg @ 50%
Calcium   162 mg 16%                                        210 mg@ 21%
Iron   18 mg 100%                                         NO IRON (supposedly men don't need Iron supp)
Phosphorus   109 mg 11%                                   none
Iodine   150 mcg 100%                                       none
Magnesium   100 mg 25%                                    120 mg @ 30%
Zinc   15 mg 100%                                             same
Selenium   20 mcg 29% *******************     105 mcg @ 150%
Copper   2 mg 100%                                           same
Manganese   2 mg 100%                                      same
Chromium   120 mcg 100%                                  same
Molybdenum   75 mcg 100%                                none
Chloride   72 mg 2%                                            none
Potassium   80 mg 2%                                         100 mg @ 3 %
Nickel   5 mcg *                                                   none
Tin   10 mcg *                                                     none
Silicon   2 mg *                                                    none
Vanadium   10 mcg *                                           none
Boron   150 mcg *                                               none
Lutein   250 mcg*                                               none
Lycopene   300 mcg*                                           600 mcg*

What does this mean? I have absolutely no idea~

[kentb]

I started taking Selenium about 3 months ago 200 mcg per day, after 6 weeks it was time to get me 3mo labs drawn and I am happy to report that my viral load had fallen to undetectable for the first time in 5.5 years!  The Tcell count and % had also taken modest increases  up from 840 to 945  and % up to 39.5% up from 34.5%.  If it is a coincidence then the supplement companies are going to make a lot of money on me!

Just my very positive experience,

Kent

[aztecan]

Interesting article and discussion.

My first doc said I should take 200 mcgs of selenium daily. This was pre-cocktail and at a time when only monotherapy was available.

I lasted another four years before things started going bad numberswise. Did it help, I can't really say. I know it didn't hurt.

I may start taking them again. What the heck, what's 24 pills to swallow rather than 22. Even if it helps only a little, a little is better than none at all. I'm not giving up my regimen, but it can't hurt to supplement.

I will, of course, let me doc know about this addition.

HUGS,

Mark

[Mike89406]

I take GNC Mens Multi-Vitamins (Timed Release) and the RDA is 2 tablets a day the 2 tabs have a combined 200 Mcg Selenium in them (100 mcg each tab).

I also get the GNC liquid Vitamin B Complex and put some under my tongue for 5 mins becuase the say Vitamin B-12 is harder to breakdown in the body in tablet form.

I read that and Vitamin E & Vitamin B-12 boost each others antioxident power when taken together

[kentb]

after 6 months of taking Selenium 200 mcg one time daily my viral load has finally gone to undetectable for the past two consecutive lab draws.  Nothing else about my regimen has changed  Trizivir 2 X a day and Kaletra 2 x a day  the battle to get my vl undetectable has gone on for almost 6 years, then I started the Selenium from CVS and I have gone undetectable my cd4 % has also risen from 33 to 43%  my T cells have risen from the 700s to the 900s.  I just wanted to provide this update for those who are considering adding this supplement to their regimen by all means please try it!

Kent

[rick21007]

I started selenium 400mcgs daily about 6 weeks ago.  My naturopathic physician increased me to 600mcgs.   My ID doc had no problem with this dosage.  My VL load had jumped from the previous draw but I had just started the regimen, but my CD4 count and % also made healthy increases too.  Will be interested to see what my next labs will look like.  There are all kinds of variables to take into account and it is difficult to draw definite conclusions in individual cases.  Still the studies do look promising.  If the effects buy some time for me as far as going on meds I'd be happy.

Rick