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Author Topic: Diet & HIV  (Read 2826 times)

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Offline ZachR

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Diet & HIV
« on: July 19, 2019, 07:57:37 am »
    Hi folks, this is going to be a long, both scientific and practical topic/question regarding the influence of diet on the quality of life as HIV+.

    It's common sense that a person dealing with a chronic viral infection should try to balance out by perfecting other major health factors as diet, exercise, habits, and attitude.

   Now, I want to tap only into the diet perspective. According to a century-long load of studies, an anti-inflammatory, immuno-supporive and modulatory diet should be the goal. That diet happens to be the Mediterranian/Ikarian diet, rich in a great variety of non-processed, whole food, plant-based diet, olive oil, black seed oil, and small amounts of good quality meat, accompanied by teas like Green tea and herbs like Rosemary, Thyme, Parsley, Garlic and Mint used in cooking and salads.
    Additionally, years of meticulous research shows that almost all of the polyphenols found in plants and herbs have a widespread protective effect on almost all organ-systems of the body, particularly in inflammatory states as HIV infection. Some of them can even block viral entry, replication, metabolic disturbances, viral neurotoxicity etc. Many of them turn out to be also protective against some of the drug toxicity of antiretrovirals.

   Long story short, as a consequence of all of the above, I happen to eat that very diet as a Mediterranian boy. However, I have a concern, and no research has been able to address it, hence, I can only rely on people's experience here. Since compounds like polyphenols can thoroughly influence many metabolic pathways, alter liver enzymes etc, the question that arises is: Would the Mediterranian diet affect my drugs' metabolism(Biktarvy) possibly leading to a treatment failure or am I overdoing this? As I contacted Gilead's research team, they failed to answer the question.
For a lack of a better option, I will rely on experiential and anecdotal observations from you, folks.

   So, here's the main question. Has anyone been eating the way I do, or at least close to it, and what are your observations healthwise, quality of life as well as treatment outcomes?

25.10.19 VL 43
26.05.19  CD4+ 685 %26 VL 55
27.03.19  CD4+ 850 %31 VL 24
***Switched to Biktarvy due to side effects.
25.02.19  CD4+ 740 %30 VL 78
15.01.19  CD4+ 1600(might be wrong) %0.7 VL 54
05.11.18  CD4+ 720 VL 1,100
17.09.18  CD4+ 962 %25 VL 14,000,000 - Started first regimen on Triumeq
15.07.18 - diagnosed, CD4+ 490 %20
20.04.18 - infected

https://ibb.co/X74GV0X

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Diet & HIV
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2019, 11:58:02 am »
Hiya

Quote
Would the Mediterranian diet affect my drugs' metabolism

I think you are overthinking this, just make sure what you are eating has no known interactions with your medication.  Asides from that if an Mediterranean diet was an major issue we have have known about it, considering the vast number of people eating like this in the world.

Personally if i had to stick to an Mediterranean diet to stay healthy though, I would simply opt to die sooner, no joke cut a few years off. I do however prefer a balanced diet generally speaking.

There is a lesson on nutrition & HIV, maybe some of this will be helpful.
https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/hiv-nutrition

Quote
Additionally, years of meticulous research shows that almost all of the polyphenols found in plants and herbs have a widespread protective effect on almost all organ-systems of the body, particularly in inflammatory states as HIV infection. Some of them can even block viral entry, replication, metabolic disturbances, viral neurotoxicity etc. Many of them turn out to be also protective against some of the drug toxicity of antiretrovirals.

Careful now!

If any of this would work to a level to do any real good we would not have nearly 40 million angels extra from HIV Pandemic, neither would we have 78 million infections so far and, counting. These things might have some properties, so does a pint of beer or bleach, not that i recommend bleach as it will kill you. Just keep in mind the best way to block viral entry is with your proven meds, and the meds today are very kind without the major issues from the past.

Just making sure you don't forget it. ;)

Jim
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 12:12:50 pm by Jim Allen »
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Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Diet & HIV
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2019, 12:15:08 pm »
Oh and, to add, as long as you have no interactions and, it gives you the nutrition you need then by all means rock on with Mediterranean diet makes you feel happier & better in life.  ;)  That's my two cents on it.
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Offline ZachR

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Re: Diet & HIV
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2019, 12:17:06 pm »
I wouldn't be so careful about interactions to make sure my meds are safely absorbed if I relied on herbs. 😀 However, they do support many aspects of health and science has it all researched, why not benefit as people have been doing so for centuries. Especially for the neuroprotective properties they deserve some attention when so many HIV+ people deal with neuro-psychiatric issues and HAND.
Takeaway:
Take your meds meticulously, eat healthy, exercise, have sex and fun. 😀
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 12:32:32 pm by ZachR »
25.10.19 VL 43
26.05.19  CD4+ 685 %26 VL 55
27.03.19  CD4+ 850 %31 VL 24
***Switched to Biktarvy due to side effects.
25.02.19  CD4+ 740 %30 VL 78
15.01.19  CD4+ 1600(might be wrong) %0.7 VL 54
05.11.18  CD4+ 720 VL 1,100
17.09.18  CD4+ 962 %25 VL 14,000,000 - Started first regimen on Triumeq
15.07.18 - diagnosed, CD4+ 490 %20
20.04.18 - infected

https://ibb.co/X74GV0X

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Diet & HIV
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2019, 12:31:47 pm »
I don't know, for centuries the life span of people with just herbs was shorter, before meds came along ;)

Do get your point and, an healthy diet is good, can't hurt, so is being happy, fully agree with you.  :) Some of these things from plants etc may or may not have some beneficial proprieties. I've seen too many people by into it and, hurt themselves  hence my comments.

Black seed or Black seed oil, Snake oil sellers as example have a lot to answer for.
2019 overview https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=72234.msg 

Takeaway:
Take your meds meticulously, eat healthy, exercise, have sex and fun. 😀

Yup :-)

BTW - Have you asked your Doctor about your dietary needs? If so, did they have any useful input for you?
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
HIV 101
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

Offline ZachR

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Re: Diet & HIV
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2019, 03:07:23 pm »
Well, I shared all my dietary details with my doctor and he was, as usual, very supportive of my decisions and choices, don't know whether he was simply relying on my responsible nature, my scientific background, truly approving of the diet, or simply had no other response. See, even when it comes to a doctor's response, I have to see it as a multifactorial phenomenon.. 😁

CLARIFICATIONS:

Additionally, thru centuries the rate of chronic illnesses was dramatically lower even in long-lived populations. I never said medicine is the devil. Medicine has done the impossible then possible now, by inventing antibiotics, medicine today has even finer tools to start seeing the netire picture as microbiome-mitochondria-pathogen-virome-genome crosstalk which will let us do true wonders in as little as a decade. However, food is a very strong influence on health, because that is the combination of substances you ingest three times a day, all life long. That being said, food is, inevitably, the strongest factor predicting the state of one's health. For that reason, you want to put 'the right fuel', I don't think there's much to be debated about the latter.

Regarding black seed or anything else in the Ikarian diet, I never meant pharmacological uses & doses. I wanted to dissect food as a whole consistent pharmavological intervention/interaction, which it is.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 03:18:00 pm by ZachR »
25.10.19 VL 43
26.05.19  CD4+ 685 %26 VL 55
27.03.19  CD4+ 850 %31 VL 24
***Switched to Biktarvy due to side effects.
25.02.19  CD4+ 740 %30 VL 78
15.01.19  CD4+ 1600(might be wrong) %0.7 VL 54
05.11.18  CD4+ 720 VL 1,100
17.09.18  CD4+ 962 %25 VL 14,000,000 - Started first regimen on Triumeq
15.07.18 - diagnosed, CD4+ 490 %20
20.04.18 - infected

https://ibb.co/X74GV0X

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Diet & HIV
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2019, 04:52:44 pm »
thru centuries the rate of chronic illnesses was dramatically under or completely mis-diagnosed, although the average population would live too short to even have to worry about it.

 ;)

Anyhow glad you're doctor is supportive, it's important to have a good relationship with your doc. Good luck with the diet hopefully it's not a big adjustment.

Best, Jim


HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
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HIV Testing
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You can read about HIV prevention here:
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PEP and PrEP

Offline ZachR

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Re: Diet & HIV
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2019, 07:08:48 pm »
One more clarification here.
Life expectancy at birth(used in anthropology and demographics) of 35-40 years that was consistent pretty much throughout the last few millenia doesn't mean that people died at their 30s and 40s. It means that infant deaths were multiple times more. Additionally, this expectancy is estimated and can be about 10 years off. However, people were most fragile till teen age and while many died in infancy, others who passed the fragile period lived up to their 80s and probably more. Those who lived so long were unlikely to have 'misdiagnosed' serious chronic illnesses, because there was little care and they wouldn't survive if they weren't mostly independent.
The main contributors to the increase in life expectancy(mainly survival in infancy) are access to running water, sanitation, later - immunisations and lastly - antibiotics.
Considering my maternal and paternal lineages, for instance, as mediterraneans, as far as I could trace back to 1800s, about 9/10 lived over their 80s in far villages w/o healthcare and most of them died w/o chronic illness.
Had to say all that. 😀 Because lifestyle and diet do matter a lot.

I agree 100%, the relationship with your doctor is crucial. This is the person with whom one should discuss everything, and hopefully, the doctor will be ready to listen and answer all the many questions we have living with a chronic infection. See your doctor as your best friend, I'd say.

The diet, well, this is the way I have eaten all my life, so nothing to adjust, just wanted to make sure that my ancient diet is compatible with a modern disease. 😀
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 07:22:39 pm by ZachR »
25.10.19 VL 43
26.05.19  CD4+ 685 %26 VL 55
27.03.19  CD4+ 850 %31 VL 24
***Switched to Biktarvy due to side effects.
25.02.19  CD4+ 740 %30 VL 78
15.01.19  CD4+ 1600(might be wrong) %0.7 VL 54
05.11.18  CD4+ 720 VL 1,100
17.09.18  CD4+ 962 %25 VL 14,000,000 - Started first regimen on Triumeq
15.07.18 - diagnosed, CD4+ 490 %20
20.04.18 - infected

https://ibb.co/X74GV0X

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Diet & HIV
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2019, 09:03:37 pm »
Look there is no doubt in my my mind infent deaths played a role on stats equally I don't doubt that some people without care today and 200/300 years ago lived to be a very old age.

Although 9/10 of the population living past 80 in 1800 I don't buy outside an exception neither do I buy they died healthy as a horse or that in the 1800 they could or did autopsies with understanding of conditions we have today. In addition many people today and, then lived with symptoms dismissing them as old age etc.

I fully agree with you a healthy lifestyle including diet are important factors in living longer & healthier so are many other factors.  Just don't overrate something (here) unless you are can cite peer reviewed studies.
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
HIV 101
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

 


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