POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Soul_Surfer on October 25, 2011, 03:49:18 pm
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I know this may open a can of worms but I will ask anyway.
What makes you believe that there will ever be a cure for this disease? The Bilderberg Group has stated for 20+ years the need for depopulation. Some of the members include the following:
Belgium
Coene, Luc, Governor, National Bank of Belgium
Davignon, Etienne, Minister of State
Leysen, Thomas, Chairman, Umicore
China
Fu, Ying, Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs
Huang, Yiping, Professor of Economics, China Center for Economic Research, Peking University
Denmark
Eldrup, Anders, CEO, DONG Energy
Federspiel, Ulrik, Vice President, Global Affairs, Haldor Topsøe A/S
Schütze, Peter, Member of the Executive Management, Nordea Bank AB
Germany
Ackermann, Josef, Chairman of the Management Board and the Group Executive Committee, Deutsche Bank
Enders, Thomas, CEO, Airbus SAS
Löscher, Peter, President and CEO, Siemens AG
Nass, Matthias, Chief International Correspondent, Die Zeit
Steinbrück, Peer, Member of the Bundestag; Former Minister of Finance
Finland
Apunen, Matti, Director, Finnish Business and Policy Forum EVA
Johansson, Ole, Chairman, Confederation of the Finnish Industries EK
Ollila, Jorma, Chairman, Royal Dutch Shell
Pentikäinen, Mikael, Publisher and Senior Editor-in-Chief, Helsingin Sanomat
France
Baverez, Nicolas, Partner, Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Bazire, Nicolas, Managing Director, Groupe Arnault /LVMH
Castries, Henri de, Chairman and CEO, AXA
Lévy, Maurice, Chairman and CEO, Publicis Groupe S.A.
Montbrial, Thierry de, President, French Institute for International Relations
Roy, Olivier, Professor of Social and Political Theory, European University Institute
Great Britain
Agius, Marcus, Chairman, Barclays PLC
Flint, Douglas J., Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings
Kerr, John, Member, House of Lords; Deputy Chairman, Royal Dutch Shell
Lambert, Richard, Independent Non-Executive Director, Ernst & Young
Mandelson, Peter, Member, House of Lords; Chairman, Global Counsel
Micklethwait, John, Editor-in-Chief, The Economist
Osborne, George, Chancellor of the Exchequer
Stewart, Rory, Member of Parliament
Taylor, J. Martin, Chairman, Syngenta International AG
Greece
David, George A., Chairman, Coca-Cola H.B.C. S.A.
Hardouvelis, Gikas A., Chief Economist and Head of Research, Eurobank EFG
Papaconstantinou, George, Minister of Finance
Tsoukalis, Loukas, President, ELIAMEP Grisons
International Organizations
Almunia, Joaquín, Vice President, European Commission
Daele, Frans van, Chief of Staff to the President of the European Council
Kroes, Neelie, Vice President, European Commission; Commissioner for Digital Agenda
Lamy, Pascal, Director General, World Trade Organization
Rompuy, Herman van, President, European Council
Sheeran, Josette, Executive Director, United Nations World Food Programme
Solana Madariaga, Javier, President, ESADEgeo Center for Global Economy and Geopolitics
Trichet, Jean-Claude, President, European Central Bank
Zoellick, Robert B., President, The World Bank Group
Ireland
Gallagher, Paul, Senior Counsel; Former Attorney General
McDowell, Michael, Senior Counsel, Law Library; Former Deputy Prime Minister
Sutherland, Peter D., Chairman, Goldman Sachs International
Italy
Bernabè, Franco, CEO, Telecom Italia SpA
Elkann, John, Chairman, Fiat S.p.A.
Monti, Mario, President, Univers Commerciale Luigi Bocconi
Scaroni, Paolo, CEO, Eni S.p.A.
Tremonti, Giulio, Minister of Economy and Finance
Canada
Carney, Mark J., Governor, Bank of Canada
Clark, Edmund, President and CEO, TD Bank Financial Group
McKenna, Frank, Deputy Chair, TD Bank Financial Group
Orbinksi, James, Professor of Medicine and Political Science, University of Toronto
Prichard, J. Robert S., Chair, Torys LLP
Reisman, Heather, Chair and CEO, Indigo Books & Music Inc. Center, Brookings Institution
Netherlands
Bolland, Marc J., Chief Executive, Marks and Spencer Group plc
Chavannes, Marc E., Political Columnist, NRC Handelsblad; Professor of Journalism
Halberstadt, Victor, Professor of Economics, Leiden University; Former Honorary Secretary General of Bilderberg Meetings
H.M. the Queen of the Netherlands
Rosenthal, Uri, Minister of Foreign Affairs
Winter, Jaap W., Partner, De Brauw Blackstone Westbroek
Norway
Myklebust, Egil, Former Chairman of the Board of Directors SAS, sk Hydro ASA
H.R.H. Crown Prince Haakon of Norway
Ottersen, Ole Petter, Rector, University of Oslo
Solberg, Erna, Leader of the Conservative Party
Austria
Bronner, Oscar, CEO and Publisher, Standard Medien AG
Faymann, Werner, Federal Chancellor
Rothensteiner, Walter, Chairman of the Board, Raiffeisen Zentralbank Österreich AG
Scholten, Rudolf, Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG
Portugal
Balsemão, Francisco Pinto, Chairman and CEO, IMPRESA, S.G.P.S.; Former Prime Minister
Ferreira Alves, Clara, CEO, Claref LDA; writer
Nogueira Leite, António, Member of the Board, José de Mello Investimentos, SGPS, SA
Sweden
Mordashov, Alexey A., CEO, Severstal
Schweden
Bildt, Carl, Minister of Foreign Affairs
Björling, Ewa, Minister for Trade
Wallenberg, Jacob, Chairman, Investor AB
Switzerland
Brabeck-Letmathe, Peter, Chairman, Nestlé S.A.
Groth, Hans, Senior Director, Healthcare Policy & Market Access, Oncology Business Unit, Pfizer Europe
Janom Steiner, Barbara, Head of the Department of Justice, Security and Health, Canton
Kudelski, André, Chairman and CEO, Kudelski Group SA
Leuthard, Doris, Federal Councillor
Schmid, Martin, President, Government of the Canton Grisons
Schweiger, Rolf, Ständerat
Soiron, Rolf, Chairman of the Board, Holcim Ltd., Lonza Ltd.
Vasella, Daniel L., Chairman, Novartis AG
Witmer, Jürg, Chairman, Givaudan SA and Clariant AG
Spain
Cebrián, Juan Luis, CEO, PRISA
Cospedal, María Dolores de, Secretary General, Partido Popular
León Gross, Bernardino, Secretary General of the Spanish Presidency
Nin Génova, Juan María, President and CEO, La Caixa
H.M. Queen Sofia of Spain
Turkey
Ciliv, Süreyya, CEO, Turkcell Iletisim Hizmetleri A.S.
Gülek Domac, Tayyibe, Former Minister of State
Koç, Mustafa V., Chairman, Koç Holding A.S.
Pekin, Sefika, Founding Partner, Pekin & Bayar Law Firm
USA
Alexander, Keith B., Commander, USCYBERCOM; Director, National Security Agency
Altman, Roger C., Chairman, Evercore Partners Inc.
Bezos, Jeff, Founder and CEO, Amazon.com
Collins, Timothy C., CEO, Ripplewood Holdings, LLC
Feldstein, Martin S., George F. Baker Professor of Economics, Harvard University
Hoffman, Reid, Co-founder and Executive Chairman, LinkedIn
Hughes, Chris R., Co-founder, Facebook
Jacobs, Kenneth M., Chairman & CEO, Lazard
Johnson, James A., Vice Chairman, Perseus, LLC
Jordan, Jr., Vernon E., Senior Managing Director, Lazard Frères & Co. LLC
Keane, John M., Senior Partner, SCP Partners; General, US Army, Retired
Kissinger, Henry A., Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
Kleinfeld, Klaus, Chairman and CEO, Alcoa
Kravis, Henry R., Co-Chairman and co-CEO, Kohlberg Kravis, Roberts & Co.
Kravis, Marie-Josée, Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute, Inc.
Li, Cheng, Senior Fellow and Director of Research, John L. Thornton China Center, Brookings Institution
Mundie, Craig J., Chief Research and Strategy Officer, Microsoft Corporation
Orszag, Peter R., Vice Chairman, Citigroup Global Markets, Inc.
Perle, Richard N., Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research
Rockefeller, David, Former Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank
Rose, Charlie, Executive Editor and Anchor, Charlie Rose
Rubin, Robert E., Co-Chairman, Council on Foreign Relations; Former Secretary of the Treasury
Schmidt, Eric, Executive Chairman, Google Inc.
Steinberg, James B., Deputy Secretary of State
Thiel, Peter A., President, Clarium Capital Management, LLC
Varney, Christine A., Assistant Attorney General for Antitrust
Vaupel, James W., Founding Director, Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research
Warsh, Kevin, Former Governor, Federal Reserve Board
Wolfensohn, James D., Chairman, Wolfensohn & Company, LLC”
If you have never heard of this group before, the answer shouldn’t be that this is just conspiracy theory jargon; the answer should be why you haven’t heard of this group.
I am simply asking how many jobs, homes, boats, planes, money etc etc etc would be lost if a cure was found? This is BIG BUSINESS and a money making machine. I believe that the Rx companies have realized that the longer one stays alive the more money they can make off of each and every patient who chooses to stay alive with treatment.
What are your thoughts on this topic?
I am HIV+ just so you know.
Thank you.
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Yes, I'm sure Kissinger is the master mind behind this. He's so Rasputin like. Only he would have to power to hypnotize the world's governments and great research institutes to go along with the Big Pharma master plan.
Thank you so ever much for opening my eyes to this.
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Bilderberg Group conspiracies, eh? Are you part of the Lyndon LaRouche movement?
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So Miss Philicia the fact that I do not believe the Government makes me crazy some how?
Do you believe the Government when they put commercials on TV saying how High Fructose Corn Syrup isn't bad for you?
If you don't then how can you believe a word they say? I believe once a liar always a liar type of deal but that is just me.
I do believe that no matter how much money is throw at the problem a cure will never be found because it will put way to many people out of work.
Why haven't they found a cure for the common cold, cancer etc etc etc. It isn't because lack of funding it is because big business will never allow it.
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I missed the government sponsored corn syrup commercials ... I think I may have seen one by the corn syrup industry or lobby .
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He speaks the TRUTH!
I've said it once and since I can never keep my big mouth shut I'll say it again.....the Government and Greedy Pharmaceutical Companies are hiding a CURE for HIV from YOU!!!!
Lazily CUT and PASTED from an earlier thread....
Take one large watermelon, coat generously in vegetable oil. Ease said watermelon intact into infected individuals rectum and hold in place for 12 hours, no more and no less.
HIV is attracted to the highly reactive tetra-methyl-cyrpo-megla-sploromogetha compound found only in watermelon grown in a very specific location known only to me!
TESTIMONIALS
Growler saved my life.......Sadie, Wisconsin
I'm no longer a diseased monster! Growler Knows the TRUTH. .....Billy Bob, Texas
The anal leakage is well worth it, Thanks Growler.......ANONYMOUS
PM me for seed catalogue and price list......2 to 1 offer TODAY ONLY
As cures CANCER and ALIEN BRAIN PROBING!!!!!
GROWLER
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>>>>>>Yawn<<<<<
This thread just reminds me I should probably buy more stock in corn syrup producing companies.
My portfolio thanks you.
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JG doesn’t High Fructose Corn Syrup = Corn Subsidies = Government?
I do not intend for this debate to turn into High Fruct5ose Corn Syrup. I am simply saying that I do not trust the Government.
I am saying that Big Business controls a lot and that we can trust them further then we can pick them up and throw them.
If we can not find a cure for cancer etc etc etc, how the heck will a cure for this huge money maker ever be found? Simple answer it will not be.
People thought the Bilderberg Group was crazy for saying 15+ years ago about the European Union was something in the works until it happened.
Do your own research on them and say we they have talked about years and years ago and why those things are not reported when 150+ World leaders are members.
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cancer
while many people do still die from cancer, many many people are cured of cancer and go on to live full, productive lives. ;)
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JG doesn’t High Fructose Corn Syrup = Corn Subsidies = Government?
I do not intend for this debate to turn into High Fruct5ose Corn Syrup. I am simply saying that I do not trust the Government.
I am saying that Big Business controls a lot and that we can trust them further then we can pick them up and throw them.
If we can not find a cure for cancer etc etc etc, how the heck will a cure for this huge money maker ever be found? Simple answer it will not be.
People thought the Bilderberg Group was crazy for saying 15+ years ago about the European Union was something in the works until it happened.
Do your own research on them and say we they have talked about years and years ago and why those things are not reported when 150+ World leaders are members.
You might want to check the most popular/profitable drugs, not an HIV drug among them. The big money is in heart medications, cholesterol drugs and drugs that treat mental illness.
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soul surfer, I agree completely with you, but you are talking to the wrong group of people. Your words are falling on deaf ears. I'll put in my two cents anyways though...
killfoilie, how many of us who have HIV are taking the drugs for those things as well? Are we not more likely to develop diabetes, high cholesterol, mental illness, and heart problems? The pharmaceutical companies profit two fold on us.
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Is it just me or has there been a number of new Big Pharma conspiracy threads in the last year? Did I just not pay attention to all these Foil-hatted folks in previous years?
The idea that a scientist would withhold the professional accolades that would follow finding a cure for HIV infection is beyond laughable. A Nobel Prize in medicine comes with a pretty hefty prize -- AND what research scientists crave, validation, recognition and a name that lives on in scientific history. Not to mention the fact that many of these researches really do want to save lives.
If the cure were found in a Big Pharma lab -- they would "own" this discovery -- but I highly doubt that this would stop a scientist from getting word out, if (and that is a very big IF) there was a conspiracy to keep it under their hat.
Plus -- when a cure is found, it will likely be found in a more academic setting, IMO. Big Pharma might help fund it, but won't "own" it.
So.... Please take your crazy elsewhere, we have enough of it here.
Mike
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Hey Moderators,
Can't we move threads like this to the Research area. If the OP is thinking it is all about "hidden research" that would be more appropriate than having it cluttering up Living With HIV.
Thanks,
Mike
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Its a mere difference in opinion. We have to agree to disagree. Thats why I stopped posting things like this.
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Its a mere difference in opinion. We have to agree to disagree. Thats why I stopped posting things like this.
Clearly you HAVE NOT stopped posting in "things like this" -- you have 2 in this "thing". ::)
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You voice what you believe and you are labeled a nut case or a conspiracy theorist.
I wonder if Bocker3 has heard of the Bilderberg Group and if not why not.
They have mentioned on more than one occasion that there is a need for Global Population. They have said things 20+ years ago that are our current situation, how did that happen?
Who profits when it costs a Rx just about $1.00 to make 1-Atripla pill but a 30 day supply can range anywhere between 2,500 & 4,500 dollars. If someone discovered a cure what would that do to a multi-billion with a ‘B’ a year profit type of scenario?
The US Government made Marijuana illegal because hemp was hurting the cotton industry. On TV you see commercials for beer and now Jack, Vodka and many others. You talk about Marijuana to combat some of the side effects of screwed up medications and you are labeled as a druggy or a burnout.
There is no question those who believe will believe and those who do not will look upon those who do believe as crazy. I simply put this post out there to see what other people thought about this topic because I am infected and I have a right to question what I am told.
Rx companies are making way too much money off of this disease and many others to find a cure for any of them. As for the statement about Cancer being cured could not be any further from the truth. You need Chemo, operations to suppress the cancer into remission. But that comes at a huge cost as well. What does 1-Chemo treatment cost a patient?
Now Bocker wants the tread moved somewhere else, I guess the only opinion that matters is his own.
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(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af308/IwuvPhilly/reilly.jpg)
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While I am not going to say that I trust the government -
I am also not going to agree that there is a conspiracy or orchestration of events to prevent a cure for HIV or other diseases.
1) Much, much more money can be made from people being cured of diseases and healthy. Just because it might not be in the healthcare or pharmaceutical industry, the billions made by these industries would more than be made up in other existing and new companies and industries that would be needed by a population that wasn't being killed or made ill by diseases. Think of all the money that is lost on lost productivity, money lost on people who are disabled and aren't able to contribute as much to the tax base or who don't have as much discretionary income to spend on various products and services.
Revenue and profits from sickness and death come no where - and I mean no where - near to what revenue and profits can be made from a healthy, non-sick, long-living society of individuals.
Dead people don't travel, they don't eat out, they don't ingest high fructose corn syrup, they don't buy clothes, they don't rent apartments or buy houses, etc. etc
Ask anyone living off of disability if they are able to purchase all of the products and services as they were when they were not on disability.
I highly doubt the Bilderberg Group is going to allow one industry to thrive (i.e. Big Pharma) at the expense of all of the other transnational companies that make up the group's invited guests.
You asked for opinions and you even said in your initial post that you expected it was going to stir things up - but then seem offended or surprised when it does just what you said the topic would do --- geeesh....
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You voice what you believe and you are labeled a nut case or a conspiracy theorist.
No dear -- if you bring up nutty conspiracy theories -- you are labeled a nut case or conspiracy theorist (who named this thread -- not I)
I wonder if Bocker3 has heard of the Bilderberg Group and if not why not.
Nope -- never have. Why? because I spend my time in reality. I have health care degrees, I have studied science, I know what motivates most scientists and it's not keeping their findings secret.
Now I wonder why Soul_Surfer neglected to answer my questions -- on why a scientist would keep things quiet? How does this "theory" of yours fit into academia? Ah yes, those questions don't jive with your theory, so they must be ignored.
There is no question those who believe will believe and those who do not will look upon those who do believe as crazy. I simply put this post out there to see what other people thought about this topic because I am infected and I have a right to question what I am told.
Rx companies are making way too much money off of this disease and many others to find a cure for any of them.
You are correct and you should question what you are told. However, you should question from a point in reality. And.... you should be prepared for others to state their opinions.
Rx companies do make a bunch of money, but they still have found "cures" for things haven't they.
As for the statement about Cancer being cured could not be any further from the truth. You need Chemo, operations to suppress the cancer into remission. But that comes at a huge cost as well. What does 1-Chemo treatment cost a patient?
You make no sense here at all.... Many people are "cured" of cancer -- my own mother has been cured. She has not been in remission for 23 yrs -- she has been cured. Yes, the cure can be rough -- but not as rough as the disease and death. Yes, treatment is costly, but what price do you put on your mother's life??
Now Bocker wants the tread moved somewhere else, I guess the only opinion that matters is his own.
Nope -- other opinions matter too. You have every right to express yours, even if I believe it is crazy and wrong. I also have the right to ask for a thread to be put in it's proper location. You are the one accusing big Pharma of hiding a cure -- one, I assume that would have been found via research -- so, I suggested a proper place for it. Actually there is a more proper place, but I don't think it's possible.
OK -- I am now done wasting my time on you and your theories. Have a happy life, put watch out -- EVERYONE is out to get you!
mike
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I used to work in the public sector and whenever you told someone what they did not want to hear they always went out of their way to tell you their level of Intelligence and degrees received. It was 9 out of 10 times and it was like clock work, funny the same thing happened again.
Here is just one article, out of 10’s of thousands.
Here is a reason why a cure will never be found.
The pharmaceutical industry, “Big Pharma” as it is known, is like any other enterprise, so saying that it exists to make money is simply stating the obvious. Or is it?
The fact is that Big Pharma deliberately and carefully crafts its marketing to project an image of far higher motivation. The pharmaceutical industry would have you believe that they are the saviors of the modern world; they aim to rid us of disease. The truth is they cause disease, providing the tools for much iatragenesis. So it is quite important to keep things in perspective. Yes, they have provided some useful products that can be life saving (some emergency drugs for instance) and some that provide, on balance, more benefits than harms in most cases. They also lie and cheat, falsify research findings, mislead approval authorities, and no doubt do far worse.
Indeed some pharmaceutical industry harms to society are in the form of bad drugs that fail to do what they claim and instead cause illness and death. Others are in the form of exorbitant prices that drain the public coffers and consumer’s wallets and purses. Predatory dumping of drugs on third world countries when they are banned or not approved in first world countries is also seen. Make no mistake; Big Pharma is not your friend.
It has been interesting to note how little regard the pharmaceutical industry has given HIV/AIDS. There was a flourish of interest when the big AIDS scare occurred in western countries some decades ago, and then very little interest was expressed. Why? Well, perhaps it was because the nations where HIV/AIDS has huge numbers of sufferers are nations with little money. When there is no money to be made Big Pharma loses interest, and marketable “altruism” very fast.
If this can be explained, how it is that strain of the Swine Flu have been proven to have been devolved inside of a laboratory and cures came out as fast as the disease did. I am just saying at the end of the day it boils down to the money making machine and neither you nor I will be able to stop it. I do hope that a cure is found one day and that it is available to the general public but I also do understand that will come at the cost of war between lobbyist, congress, presidents, Rx CEO’s, stock holders all the way down the line. As they say C@#P rolls down hill.
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I used to work in the public sector and whenever you told someone what they did not want to hear they always went out of their way to tell you their level of Intelligence and degrees received. It was 9 out of 10 times and it was like clock work, funny the same thing happened again.
Here is just one article, out of 10’s of thousands.
Here is a reason why a cure will never be found.
The pharmaceutical industry, “Big Pharma” as it is known, is like any other enterprise, so saying that it exists to make money is simply stating the obvious. Or is it?
The fact is that Big Pharma deliberately and carefully crafts its marketing to project an image of far higher motivation. The pharmaceutical industry would have you believe that they are the saviors of the modern world; they aim to rid us of disease. The truth is they cause disease, providing the tools for much iatragenesis. So it is quite important to keep things in perspective. Yes, they have provided some useful products that can be life saving (some emergency drugs for instance) and some that provide, on balance, more benefits than harms in most cases. They also lie and cheat, falsify research findings, mislead approval authorities, and no doubt do far worse.
Indeed some pharmaceutical industry harms to society are in the form of bad drugs that fail to do what they claim and instead cause illness and death. Others are in the form of exorbitant prices that drain the public coffers and consumer’s wallets and purses. Predatory dumping of drugs on third world countries when they are banned or not approved in first world countries is also seen. Make no mistake; Big Pharma is not your friend.
It has been interesting to note how little regard the pharmaceutical industry has given HIV/AIDS. There was a flourish of interest when the big AIDS scare occurred in western countries some decades ago, and then very little interest was expressed. Why? Well, perhaps it was because the nations where HIV/AIDS has huge numbers of sufferers are nations with little money. When there is no money to be made Big Pharma loses interest, and marketable “altruism” very fast.
If this can be explained, how it is that strain of the Swine Flu have been proven to have been devolved inside of a laboratory and cures came out as fast as the disease did. I am just saying at the end of the day it boils down to the money making machine and neither you nor I will be able to stop it. I do hope that a cure is found one day and that it is available to the general public but I also do understand that will come at the cost of war between lobbyist, congress, presidents, Rx CEO’s, stock holders all the way down the line. As they say C@#P rolls down hill.
The US was the biggest market, booking $7.7bn in antiretroviral sales last year. France was the largest of the European markets, with sales of $1.1bn, while Japan was the smallest overall. In terms of patients, the number of people living with HIV across the seven major markets went from 1.4 million in 2001 to 1.8 million in 2009, with further increases expected in the coming decade. The US is forecast to hold on to first place, with Datamonitor expecting it to account for 60 per cent of sales across the seven markets in 2019. Japan is forecast to remain the smallest.
The recent surge in growth was driven by the continued uptake of the Truvada drug, which is produced by California-based Gilead Sciences, and by Atripla, a combination of Truvada and Bristol-Myers Squibb's Sustiva treatment in a single pill. In 2009, Gilead notched up $2.5bn in Truvada sales; Atripla was just behind with $2.4bn in sales. In the US, Truvada boasts a market of share of 32 per cent of all prescriptions in its class of drugs. Atripla's share stands at 28 per cent.
More recently, the companies reported a rise in profits for the third quarter as sales of its core HIV drugs surpassed expectations. Sales of Truvada were up by 8 per cent to $668.7m, while Atripla sales soared by more than 20 per cent to $742.7m.
In the UK, GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) and the US group Pfizer joined forces in November last year to put their HIV business into a joint venture called ViiV Healthcare. With a portfolio of 10 available medicines, ViiV, which is 85 per cent-owned by GSK and 15 per cent by Pfizer, commands a 19 per cent share of the worldwide HIV drugs market. Its full-year figures will be published in February, but GSK's last annual report showed that sales of HIV medicines totalled £1.6bn last year.
Back in the US, Bristol Myers-Squibb's most recent results showed a 9 per cent rise in third-quarter sales for its Sustiva drug. The figures for rival group Merck are also impressive. Its lead HIV drug, Isentress, recorded worldwide sales of $278m in third quarter of 2010, an increase of 41 per cent on 2009.
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Still no answer to the questions about academia's research or why a scientist would forsake the accolades of finding a cure.
Instead, you throw red herrings about people discussing degrees (because an opinion formed of education couldn't be valid) and a mystery article that regurgitates everything you have said already.
Most interesting............ and telling.
edited to add:
Also -- nothing to say about Phily's logic either. Why do you avoid answering the questions that actually poke holes in your "theory"?? hmmm??
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Still no answer to the questions about academia's research or why a scientist would forsake the accolades of finding a cure.
Instead, you throw red herrings about people discussing degrees (because an opinion formed of education couldn't be valid) and a mystery article that regurgitates everything you have said already.
Most interesting............ and telling.
Mike -
It would appear that people with an education, degrees, credentials, and experience are merely another part of the conspiracy (Shhhhhh -- don't tell anyone)
-Phil (who now must go hide my degrees, credentials, education, and experience so that no one will figure out I am part of the conspiracy) ---- On the bright side, it shouldn't be too hard for me to play dumb ;)
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The US was the biggest market, booking $7.7bn in antiretroviral sales last year. France was the largest of the European markets, with sales of $1.1bn, while Japan was the smallest overall. In terms of patients, the number of people living with HIV across the seven major markets went from 1.4 million in 2001 to 1.8 million in 2009, with further increases expected in the coming decade. The US is forecast to hold on to first place, with Datamonitor expecting it to account for 60 per cent of sales across the seven markets in 2019. Japan is forecast to remain the smallest.
The recent surge in growth was driven by the continued uptake of the Truvada drug, which is produced by California-based Gilead Sciences, and by Atripla, a combination of Truvada and Bristol-Myers Squibb's Sustiva treatment in a single pill. In 2009, Gilead notched up $2.5bn in Truvada sales; Atripla was just behind with $2.4bn in sales. In the US, Truvada boasts a market of share of 32 per cent of all prescriptions in its class of drugs. Atripla's share stands at 28 per cent.
More recently, the companies reported a rise in profits for the third quarter as sales of its core HIV drugs surpassed expectations. Sales of Truvada were up by 8 per cent to $668.7m, while Atripla sales soared by more than 20 per cent to $742.7m.
In the UK, GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) and the US group Pfizer joined forces in November last year to put their HIV business into a joint venture called ViiV Healthcare. With a portfolio of 10 available medicines, ViiV, which is 85 per cent-owned by GSK and 15 per cent by Pfizer, commands a 19 per cent share of the worldwide HIV drugs market. Its full-year figures will be published in February, but GSK's last annual report showed that sales of HIV medicines totalled £1.6bn last year.
Back in the US, Bristol Myers-Squibb's most recent results showed a 9 per cent rise in third-quarter sales for its Sustiva drug. The figures for rival group Merck are also impressive. Its lead HIV drug, Isentress, recorded worldwide sales of $278m in third quarter of 2010, an increase of 41 per cent on 2009.
You need to source your comments, otherwise it's just your opinion and you know what they say about those.
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It has been interesting to note how little regard the pharmaceutical industry has given HIV/AIDS. There was a flourish of interest when the big AIDS scare occurred in western countries some decades ago, and then very little interest was expressed.
Speaking from my experience with 18yrs of HIV meds, I just can't understand how you can possibly say that there has been little interest in AIDS treatment over the last 2 decades. ::) Why those are the very years that ANY hiv meds have been available (ie AZT, ddI) in the first place. Those are also the years that saw the creation of ALL HAART regimens; much less advances like combo meds of Atripla ('07) and Complera ('11). Today, advances in HIV are still being made with Fusion, Integrase, Maturation, and Cellular Inhibitors, along with the emerging immune-based therapies.
Not to mention how the last 2 decades have built up the science about HIV that is enabling them to be currently working on vaccines and the science leading up to a cure. Just this past summer, we "celebrated" 30 yrs of HIV. Personally, I don't think they've done too damn bad of a job learning how to deal with a retrovirus and developing treatments after that short of a time. I think too that scientists are so dedicated that within the next 30 yrs we just might see a cure. That's not too shabby, considering how many other diseases have been around a lot longer without having a cured developed.
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Bocker I thought I had answered. I typed it out I guess it just did not go through. I am going to make this answer shorter if it does not go through again. It is all about money. I believe the Rx companies now want to keep us alive for as long as possible to get as much money as they can.
I believe that answers Leathers question. I am not talking about treatment. I am talking about cures which when we are all old or older than we are now there will no cure for it.
By the time we all pass away I am sure it will be something else that hits the world is populating too fast. Just look at China and the problems they have from Government controlled this and that and who owns all of our Debt?
If it wasn't China who was holding mass executions wouldnt we be looking to invade them?
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Soul Surfer.
This forum is here to support HIV+ people, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, religion and yes their personal beliefs. After reading your postings I have a serious and dare I say blunt question that I want to ask you about your beliefs.
Do you believe that HAART (the drugs used to treat HIV/AIDS) either causes AIDS or are poisons that make people sick or kill them?
Having and sharing such belief's is NOT a crime and will NOT get you kicked from this forum for doing such. Promoting such beliefs in the forum IS against policy and will result in banning from these forums. As such a simple honest answer.... yes I believe or no I do not believe, is enough. No detailed explanation required.
The reason why I ask this question......I want to understand where you're coming from and hope you'll feel comfortable enough to stick around the forums and share with us your journey with HIV regardless of what your beliefs are. No one should have to do this alone.
GROWLER
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No I do not believe that HAART Meds are causing HIV/AIDS. I do believe that no one truly knows what the long terms effects are because they are constantly improving to keep us alive. It is better than the alternative of not taking them.
I firmly believe they want us all a live for as long as possible.
I am a supporter of all. I want the best for all. I want everyone to be healthy.
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I believe that answers Leathers question.
I posed no question. You claimed that there was little or no interest by the pharma industry into HIV/AIDS over the last several decades.
I thought I clearly explained how much has actually been done by pharma in just the last few decades dealing with HIV/AIDS, and why you were wrong to just shrug off all those accomplishments. After an unprecidented changing of regulations, medications were quickly brought to market that stopped 1000s upon 1000s of deaths. These life-saving measures have given scientists and the pharma industry valueable time in which they have not only continued to produce treatments but have also moved on into finding vaccines and the cure for this disease.
You seem to be claiming that pharma would like to "hide" a cure to protect their profits, while I am trying to point out that they've barely reached a point in dealing with this retrovirus to have even created a cure to try to "hide". :D
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It is interesting that we are willing to follow the rabbit hole of conspiracy theory, with little to no tangible evidence to support said theory, yet almost willfully allow ourselves to be trolled again and again by denialists on this very forum.
We are either collectively kind hearted to a fault, a tad naive, or a smidge of both.
I submit that if someone thinks that science and scientists are the enemy, that AIDSMEDS might not be the best possible fit.
But hey, it's Tuesday and nothing good is on tv.
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It is interesting that we are willing to follow the rabbit hole of conspiracy theory, with little to no tangible evidence to support said theory, yet almost willfully allow ourselves to be trolled again and again by denialists on this very forum.
We are either collectively kind hearted to a fault, a tad naive, or a smidge of both.
I submit that if someone thinks that science and scientists are the enemy, that AIDSMEDS might not be the best possible fit.
But hey, it's Tuesday and nothing good is on tv.
I must beg to differ.....
The X Factor is on (and they are eliminating 5 contestants) and the Dancing With the Stars results show is on --- Chaz may be going home (of course, if he stays, it may be a conspiracy of sorts as he had the lowest score last night I believe)
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Bocker I thought I had answered. I typed it out I guess it just did not go through. I am going to make this answer shorter if it does not go through again. It is all about money. I believe the Rx companies now want to keep us alive for as long as possible to get as much money as they can.
But that doesn't answer the 2 questions I asked -- not at all. It is just a rehash of your opening "theory".
I asked -- Why would a scientist (not a fucking Rx company) want to hide his or her or their discovery and lose out on all the accolades and MONEY that would come from a Nobel Prize? Also -- what would be the reason for an academic research scientist and/or school to withhold it? You simply seem incapable of answering these 2 questions -- not too mention addressing any of the points brought up by Phil.
You are predicating your entire "theory" on Big Pharma being the only ones who might be looking for a cure. this narrow way of thinking is why conspiracy theorists hold no water in my view. If someone throws something out that doesn't fit their "theory" it gets consistently ignored.
Will we ever see you answer these questions? No I doubt it.
While we are at it ... Phil also wondered - why are you so up in arms about all this controversary when you started this thread EXPECTING it to happen.
Why I do believe this is nothing more than a big conspiracy for you to get some much needed attention.............
Mike
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No I do not believe that HAART Meds are causing HIV/AIDS. I do believe that no one truly knows what the long terms effects are because they are constantly improving to keep us alive. It is better than the alternative of not taking them.
I firmly believe they want us all a live for as long as possible.
I am a supporter of all. I want the best for all. I want everyone to be healthy.
Thank you for your reply....and remember no matter how bitchy things get here.....and rest assured they will...you'll always be welcome back.
Ok girls time to take off your t-shirts, jump in the jello and let the fun begin.
Show Us Ya Pink Bits!!!!!
GROWLER
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Thank you for your reply....and remember no matter how bitchy things get here.....and rest assured they will...you'll always be welcome back.
It's not fair to label questioning of an unsupported conspiracy theory as being bitchy. Actually, I think the OP has been given more deference, especially concerning the topic involved.
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Bocker we can agree to disagree. The reason someone will not win the Nobel Prize is because it will never be funded by at the end of the road Big business controls. What do you base our votes in for the President of the United States better than what lobbyist had the better smear compain. I am saying the reason there will never be a cure of a Dr who found the cure because it will never be allowed. If in fact there is a cure one day I will be so far off course that i can't even see it the green. You have your way of looking at it and I have mine. I do not wish to seek attention. I wanted various views.
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I must beg to differ.....
The X Factor is on (and they are eliminating 5 contestants) and the Dancing With the Stars results show is on --- Chaz may be going home (of course, if he stays, it may be a conspiracy of sorts as he had the lowest score last night I believe)
I humbly stand corrected :)
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Bocker we can agree to disagree. The reason someone will not win the Nobel Prize is because it will never be funded by at the end of the road Big business controls. What do you base our votes in for the President of the United States better than what lobbyist had the better smear compain. I am saying the reason there will never be a cure of a Dr who found the cure because it will never be allowed. If in fact there is a cure one day I will be so far off course that i can't even see it the green. You have your way of looking at it and I have mine. I do not wish to seek attention. I wanted various views.
What troubles me most about threads like yours is that you distract people from actually doing something constructive. You come to an HIV site, one driven by the science and medicine of HIV and spout these silly theories. Instead of spending your time doing something that could actually improve the lives of pozzies, you spend your time essentially babbling, bouncing from one incoherent thought to another and then claim that you want various views? If you wanted various views, you would have presented something that actually mattered, rather than just spewing those talking points that you seem to abhor.
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K
You seem to think they are crazy theroies I on the other hand do not. Do you have eveidence to support your claim that a bigger picture does not control what is released and what isn't? Because then we would only have what evidence we have to believe the way we do. What has the Government or Governments done to prove to you hat they are out for your best good at heart and not a lobbyist who has a bigger bank account. Believe what you like of me but I do help and help every chance I get in so many different ways and will continue doing so. I am just hearing what is heard and seeing what there is to see.
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I humbly stand corrected :)
That's more like it!!1 ;D
Oh, and I just figured out a way to defeat the Big Pharma conspiracy ---- stop them dead in their tracks...
HOW?
HERE'S HOW:
Stop new HIV infections.... be responsible.... use condoms.... no unsafe sex..... eventually, this HIV thing can be wiped out and we will have thwarted Big Pharma's attempts to keep a cure out of our hands - by negating the need for a cure...
Oh oh....
I think someone heard me.. I think someone is outside my door --- someone is outside my window.... I always feel like someone is watching me..... when I'm in the shower, I'm gonna be afraid to wash my hair, cause I might open my eyes and find someone else standing there....
I just looked out the peep hole of my apartment (not the glory hole - but the peep hole) and there is a GIANT and I mean GIANT bottle of ATRIPLA standing outside my door --- taller then Shaquille O'Neal - I mean this bottle is TALL....
And outside my window.... I think I saw a large ORANGE Kaletra pills --- and he is being backed up with an Army of Truvada ----
They are trying to get in...... I knew I shouldn't have talked..... I knew it.... HELP!!!!!!!! HELP!!!!! --- they just sent a GIANT hemorrhoid pad out of my bathroom --- he's trying to smother me -- and HE'S MEDICATED!!!!! Why don't they just cure hemorrhoids ---- cause they are making a fortune from selling these dayuummm pads and now they are mutating into SUPER SIZE PADS.......
EEEKKKK!!!!! I'm sworn to secrecy --- I can't tell you what I just saw....... my life depends on it.
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Don't bother yourselves any further with this guy. He's a multiple account abuser and has been banned. He's also been posting as Ocean Lover (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55493).
When will people realise that we have no time for people who cannot be honest? Beats the hell out of me.
Ann
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Don't bother yourselves any further with this guy. He's a multiple account abuser and has been banned. He's also been posting as Ocean Lover (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55493).
When will people realise that we have no time for people who cannot be honest? Beats the hell out of me.
Ann
Does that mean we can now refer to authors of conspiracy theories as "bat shit crazy". ;D
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It's not fair to label questioning of an unsupported conspiracy theory as being bitchy. Actually, I think the OP has been given more deference, especially concerning the topic involved.
OK. I see I'm going to have to start translating my comments for benefit of the less fortunate in the room.
What I was so subtly trying to say was......
"Ok girls this one's a live one and fair game. So TEAR THE SLAG APART, and if we're lucky later he'll come back for more."
GROWLER (Who learned sign language just so he could tell everyone to fuck off)
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I don't believe in conspiracy theory but I do believe there isn’t any incentive for big Pharma to find cures for HIV/AIDS.
A scientist can do his/her research but that requires lots of funding. Govt. or other companies can do funding so much.
Big pharmas aren't interested finding the cures YET because they are better off not finding the cure. They would rather spend money to find better treatment meds because that's what makes them money. There is no conspiracy, it’s a pure business deal.
I don't see any cure anytime soon until the patent rights are diminished for AIDS meds.
Since
(Who is not too shocked to realize again about the numbers of years has gone by what like 30 years and yet there is no cure!!)
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(Who is not too shocked to realize again about the numbers of years has gone by what like 30 years and yet there is no cure!!)
30 years is not long - not even close to long in the life of a disease - by all accounts, HIV is still a very young disease.
Look at muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, pneumonia, the common cold, the flu, various forms of cancer, TB, measles, scarlet fever, mumps, chicken pox, leprosy, and hundreds - thousands of other conditions that have been around much much longer.
Scientists have made incredible strides in coming up with a treatment for a disease that is continuously mutating and adapting - a disease that actually fools the very cells that are supposed to kill it into thinking that it is their "friend" before entering those cells and destroying them.... a disease that lives within the cells that fight off other diseases and conditions.... a disease that lies in latent reservoirs and awakens when it is ready - making it difficult to find and eliminate all of the live, active, manifest virus...
30 years is minuscule in the whole scheme of things -
believe me - there is actually enough money to be made from a host of other conditions that are more prevalent and affect a much larger segment of the population on a consistent and recurrent basis than a disease that while affecting millions can still be prevented with relative ease (i.e. condom use for the most part) and treated and does not affect as wide a segment of the population as other diseases....
The reason for high pharm prices - in addition to normal capitalistic greed - is also research and development costs and the fact that HIV drugs are not drugs that are widely used by a super large population.... pill for pill, med for med, more meds are consumed for other more common conditions than HIV - making the price much lower --- reference economy of scale.
Not justifying high prices of meds and exhorborant profits by pharmaceutical companies - but believe me, the reasons you are using to "rationalize" what you perceive as reluctance or dragging feet on finding and marketing a cure do not add up.
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(Who is not too shocked to realize again about the numbers of years has gone by what like 30 years and yet there is no cure!!)
Get a grip. There's still no cure for influenza and remind me, please, how many years has that been around? Like forever? There may be a vaccine for it, but it has to change every year and it doesn't always confer immunity.
I really have to believe that people who think a cure is being hidden just like to play the poor victim. Whoever comes up with the cure for hiv stands to cash in like nobody's business and there's no way it's going to be hidden.
I'm beginning to think we need a tin-foil hat corner here. ::)
If this conspiracy theory held any water, then there wouldn't be a cure for hep C. There wouldn't be a cure for gonorrhea or syphilis. Smallpox would not have been eradicated. The list goes on and on. Go educate yourselves and stop pandering to conspiracy theorists. Or hey, have at it. Just don't bring that crap here. I mean, do you conspiracy people have ANY idea how complex a virus - a retrovirus - hiv is? Get a grip, wake up and smell the coffee, welcome to the 21st century.
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Since
(Who is not too shocked to realize again about the numbers of years has gone by what like 30 years and yet there is no cure!!)
please also look at my reply in this other thread were we were discussing how much has been done in a relatively short amount of time to treat HIV and work towards a cure.
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40356.msg502990#msg502990
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I mean, do you conspiracy people have ANY idea how complex a virus - a retrovirus - hiv is?
Unfortunately, Ann - and I do mean this in all sincerity and seriousness ---- No -- most of those espousing these conspiracy theories or "delaying" "no incentive" for a cure arguments, have not actually read up and I mean really read up for understanding and comprehension about retroviruses, about HIV. They haven't read multiple peer reviewed and peer refereed journals, they haven't dug deep into the science, the research, the economics, the policies and policy decisions, the history of activism, the history of HIV/AIDS --- none of the above.
It is a shame. It is sad. And it is tolerable, but only until those who have not taken the initiative to do these things start speaking out of their ...
Always strikes me how those who have these things to say also don't ever show up in the AIDS Activism topic area.... all these theories, perceptions, and beliefs...but no desire to get involved...and take control not just of HIV - prevention, treatment, services, and cure-related research...but in so many other things.
So, back to the beginning.... nope.... no idea - just lots of emotion, anger, and frustration - being misdirected on theories that don't contribute anything to solutions or further progress - the equivalent of stomping one's feet and holding one's breath - and about as useful or should I say useless as a child's temper tantrum (and of about as much value).
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Get a grip. There's still no cure for influenza and remind me, please, how many years has that been around? Like forever? There may be a vaccine for it, but it has to change every year and it doesn't always confer immunity.
I really have to believe that people who think a cure is being hidden just like to play the poor victim. Whoever comes up with the cure for hiv stands to cash in like nobody's business and there's no way it's going to be hidden.
I'm beginning to think we need a tin-foil hat corner here. ::)
If this conspiracy theory held any water, then there wouldn't be a cure for hep C. There wouldn't be a cure for gonorrhea or syphilis. Smallpox would not have been eradicated. The list goes on and on. Go educate yourselves and stop pandering to conspiracy theorists. Or hey, have at it. Just don't bring that crap here. I mean, do you conspiracy people have ANY idea how complex a virus - a retrovirus - hiv is? Get a grip, wake up and smell the coffee, welcome to the 21st century.
You took the thoughts right out of my noggin.
I admit I like science. I am a geek fo science, and I ingest as much of it as I possibly can.
What I see bandied about regarding the conspiracy theories is almost always intellectual laziness. The unwillingness or inability to research stuff on your own. It's easier, and requires little effort, to imagine some Big Brother HIDING the truth from you than it is to either A) go look through the often tedious and complex history of the research and science, or B) admit that you are unwilling to or incapable of understanding the methodology and details of the aforementioned research and history.
Either way, it's an admission of defeat. And it certainly does not bode well for someone whose disease REQUIRES them to have a real (not just basic) understanding of what HIV is, what it does to/in the body, and by what mechanics the meds we take combat that process.
It involves a cognitive dissonance that, frankly, I have trouble wrapping my head around. How can we take meds, many of which are relatively fresh out of the lab, with a profound distrust of the very process that brings them to our pillboxes?
It's a scary notion, and more often than not, I've seen it lead to simple AIDS/HIV denialism. It's the same logic that leads people to believe that humans genetically engineered HIV on purpose, or that AIDS is somehow caused by HAART. It requires denying advancements in science and the very methodology by which those advancements are achieved.
It's the kind of logic, filtered through bias, that turned Peter Duesberg from an esteemed genius in cancer research and treatment to a laughing stock homophobic mass-murderer.
So yes, I have a rather personal investment in these discussions, as they threaten to undermine the basic structure of these forums.
Listen, Pharm companies can be real pricks. I know. Norvir was useless as a PI and was almost as cheap as baby aspirin until it was discovered that it could enhance existing PIs - then the price went up 400 percent overnight. That's bullshit, and wrong, and greedy.
Sustiva was KNOWN to cause, in people with pre-existing histories of major depression (chemically-based, not situationally-based) to have STRONG suicidal ideations. THIS information was swept under the rug until a plethora of HIV positive people reported these effects in the wild. I was one of them. It was a horrible experience I never want to repeat - and my doctor at the time refused to believe it was the meds. That's criminal, negligent, and morally bankrupt.
(also why I don't jump on the Atripla bandwagon as the Best Thing Ever For Everyone)
But I know enough scientists, plural who work at enough universities and labs, plural to know that they have nothing to lost and everything to gain by developing a cure for HIV/AIDS. I also know that it is quite likely that a "cure" in the traditional sense might be impossible, that those who are infected might always test positive, but be given treatment which essentially arrests the course of the disease. That and a working vaccine would be miracles considering we are dealing with a retrovirus, and we only took it's picture fifteen years or so ago.
But yeah, what ANN said. And look at the thread Leatherman referenced. We have come so far, and done SO much.
It's dangerously lazy to simply suggest that monolithic, inhuman entities are conspiring to keep a cure at bay.
HIV shows no mercy to the lazy. It eats lazy for brunch.
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and about as useful or should I say useless as a child's temper tantrum (and of about as much value).
I'm going to pull you up on just one little thing.....Don't dismiss the power of the "Temper Tantrum" which is the simply the more flamboyant cousin of the marketing genus that is "Pester Power." Sells more junk food and toys than Ronald McDonald and Disney combined.
GROWLER (Who wants it NOW and will hold his breathe until he gets what's coming to him!)
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Unfortunately, Ann - and I do mean this in all sincerity and seriousness ---- No -- most of those espousing these conspiracy theories or "delaying" "no incentive" for a cure arguments, have not actually read up and I mean really read up for understanding and comprehension about retroviruses, about HIV. They haven't read multiple peer reviewed and peer refereed journals, they haven't dug deep into the science, the research, the economics, the policies and policy decisions, the history of activism, the history of HIV/AIDS --- none of the above.
Sadly, it is those who are most virulent in these suppositions that almost instantly begin to belittle, mock, or undermine people with advanced degrees or experience in virology or scientific methodology. An Anti-science mentality lurks right underneath these theories - and part of me thinks it is based on a primal need to push down those who rise up.
I am living proof that you don't need an advanced degree to understand the gist of this stuff. What HELPS is a vested interest. I have trouble tolerating those who are infected with this illness who ignore that vested interest.
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Sadly, it is those who are most virulent in these suppositions that almost instantly begin to belittle, mock, or undermine people with advanced degrees or experience in virology or scientific methodology. An Anti-science mentality lurks right underneath these theories - and part of me thinks it is based on a primal need to push down those who rise up.
I am living proof that you don't need an advanced degree to understand the gist of this stuff. What HELPS is a vested interest. I have trouble tolerating those who are infected with this illness who ignore that vested interest.
Exactly - while not wanting to become fully educated immediately or even for a bit after being infected is understandable - due to fear, anxiety, confusion...
Staying uneducated about this disease is not a good idea -
Exactly what you said previously about laziness or not wanting to admit that one may not understand the science - and it is okay not to understand - there are more than enough people here who are more than willing to help explain it or direct a person to resources that might be more intellectually digestable.
Myself, I find myself wanting to know more and more about this condition and everything surrounding it. I don't want to be clueless. I don't want to be easily misled. And, I want to be able to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful, productive way.
It doesn't mean that I won't still have my nonsense-ical moments lol
But, I definitely intent on knowing as much as possible about HIV - and learning the most current up-to-date information so that the pieces (and there are many) will fit together as best as possible for me.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-kvd4zGLlo
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I love a good conspiracy first thing in the morning. I can't put a coherent thought to words yet, the coffee hasn't kicked in. Probably because our government has gotten us all addicted then will suddenly stop the coffee bean flow and will control us through our lack of motivation.
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The remarkable frequency with which conspiracy theory threads surface on these forums is the global conspiracy that makes it harder for me to come to terms with my diagnosis.
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Is it just me or has there been a number of new Big Pharma conspiracy threads in the last year? Did I just not pay attention to all these Foil-hatted folks in previous years?
The idea that a scientist would withhold the professional accolades that would follow finding a cure for HIV infection is beyond laughable. A Nobel Prize in medicine comes with a pretty hefty prize -- AND what research scientists crave, validation, recognition and a name that lives on in scientific history. Not to mention the fact that many of these researches really do want to save lives.
If the cure were found in a Big Pharma lab -- they would "own" this discovery -- but I highly doubt that this would stop a scientist from getting word out, if (and that is a very big IF) there was a conspiracy to keep it under their hat.
Plus -- when a cure is found, it will likely be found in a more academic setting, IMO. Big Pharma might help fund it, but won't "own" it.
So.... Please take your crazy elsewhere, we have enough of it here.
Mike
Very happy to find a post I agree with 100%.
It seems there is no convincing these "critically thinking" fools. Kelly, you still haven't done your homework??!!!! Still refusing to ACTUALLY learn all the facts that refute your cockamamy political economy, which seems to be emotionally meaningful to you for some reason.
Well at least you can all take comfort in the fact you won't die of HIV if you are willing to enter the vast master plot and drink the HAART koolaid.
Still, life would be easier lived on Earth, wouldn't it??
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I sometimes get the feeling that people who come with these "critical" investigations of politics and economy and health are in over their heads, intellectually.
But that can't explain it all. There is some reason to believe there must be a powerful conspiracy to abuse human rights.
We see it time and again in this forum, cross it many times in life as well. People defend the existence of these power merchants, with half-assed arguments, avoidances, navel gazing, all below the level of enough dissonance to actually abandon the myth making.
Soul - your avoided Bocker's important question to your "theory", then finally managed a completely mushy unconvincing answer.
In fact, there is NO way a cabal of power merchants can control governments and research insititutes/universities. Its wishful thinking on your part. Why? I dunno why.
I feel sorry for you.
Learn to argue your points convincingly and face the risk of losing the debate and changing your views. Or retreat to the dangerous worlds of people who think like you and will never push you to live on this earth in this reality.
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I sometimes get the feeling that people who come with these "critical" investigations of politics and economy and health are in over their heads, intellectually.
But that can't explain it all. There is some reason to believe there must be a powerful conspiracy to abuse human rights.
We see it time and again in this forum, cross it many times in life as well. People defend the existence of these power merchants, with half-assed arguments, avoidances, navel gazing, all below the level of enough dissonance to actually abandon the myth making.
Soul - your avoided Bocker's important question to your "theory", then finally managed a completely mushy unconvincing answer.
In fact, there is NO way a cabal of power merchants can control governments and research insititutes/universities. Its wishful thinking on your part. Why? I dunno why.
I feel sorry for you.
Learn to argue your points convincingly and face the risk of losing the debate and changing your views. Or retreat to the dangerous worlds of people who think like you and will never push you to live on this earth in this reality.
I thought the hemp vs cotton arguement sounded pretty legit..... As a matta o fact I replaced the so called black actors would rape our women theory with it.
"LEGALIZE IT, AND DON'T CRITIZIZE IT!" Peter Tosh
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I sometimes get the feeling that people who come with these "critical" investigations of politics and economy and health are in over their heads, intellectually.
But that can't explain it all. There is some reason to believe there must be a powerful conspiracy to abuse human rights.
We see it time and again in this forum, cross it many times in life as well. People defend the existence of these power merchants, with half-assed arguments, avoidances, navel gazing, all below the level of enough dissonance to actually abandon the myth making.
I think that some of the disconnect may come from no longer having faith in your fellow human beings. I reject most conspiracy theories because I refuse to believe that the majority of humans are evil. I know that some people do horrible things, but they are a tiny percentage of all humans. For me, I can't accept or believe that enough people, who would have to be evil, have obtained positions where they alone could prevent/cause the theory of the day.
However, if you truly believe that life is stacked against you, for whatever reason, then conspiracy theories can become a place to lay the blame for your lot in life. Or maybe they provide an outlet for anger or frustration, but I think it always comes back to the individual. It's much easier to rail against the machine, especially with regards to theories that no single person could ever prevent, than to take control of your own life. For some people it's easier to blame others for whatever reason, than doing the hard work required to live the life you want.
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The remarkable frequency with which conspiracy theory threads surface on these forums is the global conspiracy that makes it harder for me to come to terms with my diagnosis.
This site routinely comes under concentrated attack by groups of HIV denialists. This is sometimes caused by events like World AIDS Day or National Coming Out Day, or by what I imagine are contentious arguments on the denialists' web forums by well meaning HIV treatment advocates. Also, when a major figure in the denialist movement dies - of AIDS - it often sends a flurry of activity to the forefront.
I rather imagine Ann and Andy play Whack-A-Mole frequently with trolls and dock puppets here. Some of them are quite adept at ip address spoofing. What pisses me off is that some good people are run off when their first thread, or first foray into this website is attacked/usurped by a troll. Say what you will about bullying or infighting or cabals. Real threats come from THAT section of the web.
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In one of these threads a while back someone hauled out Tuskeegee as proof that anything is possible.
So I get the point about how if one belongs to a group of people who were, or are still being, abused and denied equal rights and equal humanity, one might give conspiracies cred. But at the end of the day, that is only constructive "resistant" "revolutionary" or "anti-establishment" thoughts and actions IF the evil abuse actually exists. Cause yeah, then something can get exposed.
But nothing can get exposed in this sort of grand sweaping global Power Broker conspiracy. I mean, come on. Henry Kravis? Henry Kissinger? This sounds more like the guest list to a SUPER boring late 80's benefit party. Its pathetic.
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In my opinion, conspiracy theories serve a purpose. They help people who face an overwhelmingly complex or frustrating situation make sense out of it. The theory provides a sense of control and wellbeing. In the case of HIV isn't it reassuring to believe there IS a cure out there and someone is just keeping it from us rather than accept the belief that there is no cure, there may never be a cure and we are at the mercy of complex forces we cannot understand.
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In my opinion, conspiracy theories serve a purpose. They help people who face an overwhelmingly complex or frustrating situation make sense out of it. The theory provides a sense of control and wellbeing. In the case of HIV isn't it reassuring to believe there IS a cure out there and someone is just keeping it from us rather than accept the belief that there is no cure, there may never be a cure and we are at the mercy of complex forces we cannot understand.
Just as believing in life after death can soften the final severence of death.
Just as believing in God can give one a sense of control over your future.
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But that is a WORST world:
There is a cure, but an evil cabal of power brokers is profiteering and playing population control and you are the victim. That is a freaking nightmare.
This is a better world, less anxiety producing:
reality of aids research and treatment in the past 30 years. reality.
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This is a better world, less anxiety producing:
reality of aids research and treatment in the past 30 years. reality.
Yet we have people who are too frightened to take medications that will save their life.
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Anyone ever notice how beautiful a marijuana plant can look in your foyer?
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Anyone ever notice how beautiful a marijuana plant can look in your foyer?
But does it reek or not? Don't count on those old New England dames to antiauthority.
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Anyone ever notice how beautiful a marijuana plant can look in your foyer?
Yes
its a good intro to the 154 in the basement
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Anyone ever notice how beautiful a marijuana plant can look in your foyer?
In the courtyard of my building we have a withered tomato plant in a pot that has only survived because one of the residents thought it was a marijuana plant when it emerged and so decided to water it.
No one's sure how it got there in the first place, although popular speculation is that someone who was drunk, had eaten a hamburger and then threw up in the pot planter. Since the plant has started fruiting, this myth has been debunked as no one eats roma tomatoes on their hamburger.
GROWLER (who'll be making spaghetti bolognaise in about 4-6 weeks time)