POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => I Just Tested Poz => Topic started by: ratcat on December 08, 2011, 04:48:58 am
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Empowered in Bangkok
Hi everybody and thanks for reading. I was diagnosed HIV+ last week when I returned to California. I seroconverted 8 months ago, so yes, I’m new to this. I’m 42 years old, male. I have not created this post with the intensions of venting and seeking support and so on. I have already read many posts on this forum and site and they were EXTREMELY helpful. POZ has been such a great resource for me and I commend you all! I have spent the past 2 years living in Thailand, and I speak their language pretty well. Yes, I got the virus here. I consider myself straight…but I must admit that I have hooked up with some ladyboys over here so label me as you like! Lol. Ok, enough about me. Within this post will be some important information that may really improve YOUR lives so you should probably read on.
The people at AHP in SF were great. Thanks for your’ help. But, living in the USA, especially with this disease seemed like such a chore. The idea of becoming part of the welfare system did not sit well with me and seemed very complicated. Prices for ARV’s, tests and doctor visits are SO HIGH in America. It’s insane. The U.S. economy is under great threat. The middle class is shrinking. Taxes are ridiculous. Budget cuts are looming across the board. There were many empty storefronts and “going out of business” sales throughout the city. Also, going home to my family just is not an option any more.
I therefore felt it necessary to flee, promptly purchased a one way ticket back to Bangkok, packed and left.
I made the right decision. I can receive medical care and purchase life saving medicine for such a better value here. Thailand’s hospitals are excellent. Bangkok is hands down the safest large city in the world and the transportation infrastructure is excellent. The majority of Thais are Buddhist and are wonderful, sophisticated, friendly people. This is not a third world country and it is quite developed, I assure you. And yes, the middle class is alive and well here with a bustling, vigorous economy. Did I mention that it’s beautiful here? The food is EXCELLENT, the culture is AMAZING and accommodation is affordable (very!). No, this isn’t a message from the Thai tourism board! lol
Ok, here comes the important part. As you may well know, the much revered King of Thailand and former Prime Minister Taksin, back in 2004 got tired of watching their beloved people die of this epidemic. They put their fists down and cracked the patents on all of the anti-retroviral drugs and produced their own generic versions at great dismay to the drug conglomerates. Long live the King! Nowadays, the drug companies are cooperating with the Thais, and provide them with the newest and best products for one-tenth the price that you are paying. The generic stuff is even cheaper. A full ARV one month prescription can be filled here for between 50 to 200 US dollars. And yes, that’s the price that we foreigners pay. The Thais can get them even cheaper. It seems that just about everything is available here.
I went to a top-notch hospital and had all of my blood tests done last week, including HIV, Hep a, b, c, syphilis , cd4 and viral load, and spoke with a ID.. That cost me $400. I get the results today. I have searched for other resources during the course of this week, and found a place where I can get my cd4 and viral load test done for only 2000 thb. Yes folks….60 bucks!
I suppose that I have had a bit of a revelation, and realize and feel quite strongly that I should do more than just help myself. I’m in a position right now where I can help a lot of “our” people….and that is what I intend to do. I plan to document my journey here on this post. Any questions and/or comments will have a reply. I have actually formulated a Master Plan so that I can help the most people as is possible, but I don’t plan to unveil that for a few more days. Let’s face it, if I continue to write today, I’ll have to get this thing published as a novel!
I got my results: HIV poz. 99.9% (confidential test) vl: 16000 copies/ml cd4/T helper:792 cell/ul I’m happy with that!
Cost of hospital visit today: 150 thb/5 dollars! Same Doctor. He is really good, but an intern (Mission Hosp. Bkk)
And I got this from what I believe is a reliable source ( a year old but it should give you an idea) ARV price list from Anonymous Clinic in Bkk.:
1.ABC (Ziagenavir) 300mg 60 tablets 8490 THB
2.ATZ " REYATAZ 200mg 60 tablets 9750 THB
3.ATZ '' REYATAZ 300mg 30 tablets 8640 THB
4.Darunavir " PREZISTA 300mg 120 tablets 13800 THB
5.DDI " VIDEX*EC 250mg 30 tablets 2430 THB
6.DDI " VIDEX*EC 400mg 30 tablets 3750 THB
7.EFV " STROCIN 600mg 30 tablets 810 THB
8.IDV (CRIXIVAN) 180 tablets ราคา 2160 THB
9.3TC " LAMIVIR 60 tablets 570 THB
10. 3TC " LAMIVIR 30 tablets 570 THB
11.LPV/RTV " Aluvia 60 tablets 1440 THB
12.LPV/RTV " Kaletra 180 tablets 5400 THB
13.NVP " NERAVIR 60 tablets 960 THB
14.RTV " Norvia 84 tablets 3024 THB
15.SQV " Invirase 120 tablets 9360 THB
16.D4T " STAVIR 60 tablets 240 THB
17.TDF " Viread 30 tablets 1350 THB
18.AZT " ANTIVIR 100 tablets 650 THB
19.3TC+AZT " Zilavir 60 tablets 1230 THB
20.3TC+NVP+D4T" GPO vir S-30 60 tablets 990 THB
21.3TC+NVP+AZT ''GPO vir Z-250 60 tablets 1320 THB
Stay Tuned! More to come. ...and don't forget to reply ;)
edited by Ann to remove personal info
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Hi Ratcat, welcome to the forums.
When you say you want to help '"our" people', who do you mean, Thais or Yanks?
My (poz) bf is very fond of Thailand and its people as well. He goes there on holiday almost yearly (but he doesn't take me lol). We live in the UK (sorta - we're in the Isle of Man) so the cost of meds and health care doesn't affect us like it does people in the States. We have the NHS (National Health Service) so meds, labs and the rest are "free" (we pay into the system via taxes etc). I'm originally from the US (grew up in Ohio, lived in NYC and NY state in my twenties) so I do know how difficult it can be to obtain health care if you don't have good health insurance. These days good insurance isn't even a guarantee that you will not have problems. It sucks. I'm so glad I moved to the UK - even more so since I've been poz.
Your numbers are fantastic, particularly so early on in your infection. A lot of people have a much higher VL early on, and a lower CD4. Your body has responded to the virus very well. You don't really need meds yet, so I'm wondering if you're thinking about treatment now, or if you're going to wait until your numbers indicate the need.
Looking forward to hearing about your Master Plan.
Ann
edited to remove personal info
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Hi Ann. I'm glad that you noticed this post, and sorry it's so long winded folks! That is great that the British take care of their people and thanks for your comments on my numbers.
I am very happy and lucky to have low vl and a solid cd4, as I was expecting the worst. I'm going to hold off on the meds for now but I'm going to stay here and try out different resources. The Master plan is coming but I will wait until there is MUCH more activity in this post. I may even move it to a different section of the forum if there is not enough interest. Oh, and I'm heading to the beaches today so I may be offline for a day or so, so post away people. I'm still here. And "our people" means Thais and Yanks, and basically anybody in need who is hiv+ or at threat of becoming so.
Oh, and people, if the content of this post interests you in any way, be sure to reply and let me know.
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Hi,
welcome here.
As you found out Thailand has very good hospitals and doctors, for those who can pay. For the others, ex premier Thaksin started the 30 baht scheme, which sort of works, sometimes. But, unfortunately, quality of care varies greatly between private (expensive) hospitals and government run hospitals. And in both the stigma of poverty is an added burden when visiting, even if someone pays for you. And before you ask, yes, I have experienced this first hand.
Then there is the stigma re: HIV+ people, and because of it children and adults alike still die in Thailand after being kicked out by their families or frightened neighbours. Maybe not in Bangkok but certainly in the countryside.
A great start at helping the people of the country that has welcomed you would be to give a hand to the people of Baan Gerda http://www.baangerda.org/ (http://www.baangerda.org/). They do fantastic work and have indeed saved lives. Have a look at their website or go there. Maybe a better way to help than to encourage what I perceive (wrongly perhaps) as HIV tourism.
Pat
edited to change wording of last sentence
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Wow frenchpat. That is a really nice thing they are doing. And thanks for putting me in my place. Maybee I spent too much time swimming around in my own head in that crappy Apocalypse Now hotel room on Koa San. Obviously I'm new to this stuff. I have an idea how I can hire some HIV poz Thais, pay them really well and hopefully change some lives but the way you put it...damn ...maybee I should just delete this thread. I certainly would hate to see a bunch of hiv poz sexpats read this, come over here and abuse the system and the people. people from America, with internet access should be able to figure this stuff out anyway....or why not just fly into Zimbabwe or Uganda and pick up a crate of meds on the black market?..lol. If anybody else wants me to get rid of this thread, please let me know....I'm darn close to pulling it. I got inspired when I read a thread a few days ago with a guy totally freaking out about having to pay $2000 a month for medicine. It turns out that this jerk was a fraud and was banned...and alot of people jumped on here to help him. Total bullshit. Thanks....
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Empowered in Bangkok
Hi everybody and thanks for reading. I was diagnosed HIV+ last week when I returned to California. I seroconverted 8 months ago, so yes, I’m new to this. I’m 42 years old, male. I have not created this post with the intensions of venting and seeking support and so on. I have already read many posts on this forum and site and they were EXTREMELY helpful. POZ has been such a great resource for me and I commend you all! I have spent the past 2 years living in Thailand, and I speak their language pretty well. Yes, I got the virus here. I consider myself straight…but I must admit that I have hooked up with some ladyboys over here so label me as you like! Lol. Ok, enough about me. Within this post will be some important information that may really improve YOUR lives so you should probably read on.
The people at AHP in SF were great. Thanks for your’ help. But, living in the USA, especially with this disease seemed like such a chore. The idea of becoming part of the welfare system did not sit well with me and seemed very complicated. Prices for ARV’s, tests and doctor visits are SO HIGH in America. It’s insane. The U.S. economy is under great threat. The middle class is shrinking. Taxes are ridiculous. Budget cuts are looming across the board. There were many empty storefronts and “going out of business” sales throughout the city. Also, going home to my family just is not an option any more.
I therefore felt it necessary to flee, promptly purchased a one way ticket back to Bangkok, packed and left.
I made the right decision. I can receive medical care and purchase life saving medicine for such a better value here. Thailand’s hospitals are excellent. Bangkok is hands down the safest large city in the world and the transportation infrastructure is excellent. The majority of Thais are Buddhist and are wonderful, sophisticated, friendly people. This is not a third world country and it is quite developed, I assure you. And yes, the middle class is alive and well here with a bustling, vigorous economy. Did I mention that it’s beautiful here? The food is EXCELLENT, the culture is AMAZING and accommodation is affordable (very!). No, this isn’t a message from the Thai tourism board! lol
Ok, here comes the important part. As you may well know, the much revered King of Thailand and former Prime Minister Taksin, back in 2004 got tired of watching their beloved people die of this epidemic. They put their fists down and cracked the patents on all of the anti-retroviral drugs and produced their own generic versions at great dismay to the drug conglomerates. Long live the King! Nowadays, the drug companies are cooperating with the Thais, and provide them with the newest and best products for one-tenth the price that you are paying. The generic stuff is even cheaper. A full ARV one month prescription can be filled here for between 50 to 200 US dollars. And yes, that’s the price that we foreigners pay. The Thais can get them even cheaper. It seems that just about everything is available here.
I went to a top-notch hospital and had all of my blood tests done last week, including HIV, Hep a, b, c, syphilis , cd4 and viral load, and spoke with a ID.. That cost me $400. I get the results today. I have searched for other resources during the course of this week, and found a place where I can get my cd4 and viral load test done for only 2000 thb. Yes folks….60 bucks!
I suppose that I have had a bit of a revelation, and realize and feel quite strongly that I should do more than just help myself. I’m in a position right now where I can help a lot of “our” people….and that is what I intend to do. I plan to document my journey here on this post. Any questions and/or comments will have a reply. I have actually formulated a Master Plan so that I can help the most people as is possible, but I don’t plan to unveil that for a few more days. Let’s face it, if I continue to write today, I’ll have to get this thing published as a novel!
I got my results: HIV poz. 99.9% (confidential test) vl: 16000 copies/ml cd4/T helper:792 cell/ul I’m happy with that!
Cost of hospital visit today: 150 thb/5 dollars! Same Doctor. He is really good, but an intern (Mission Hosp. Bkk)
And I got this from what I believe is a reliable source ( a year old but it should give you an idea) ARV price list from Anonymous Clinic in Bkk.:
1.ABC (Ziagenavir) 300mg 60 tablets 8490 THB
2.ATZ " REYATAZ 200mg 60 tablets 9750 THB
3.ATZ '' REYATAZ 300mg 30 tablets 8640 THB
4.Darunavir " PREZISTA 300mg 120 tablets 13800 THB
5.DDI " VIDEX*EC 250mg 30 tablets 2430 THB
6.DDI " VIDEX*EC 400mg 30 tablets 3750 THB
7.EFV " STROCIN 600mg 30 tablets 810 THB
8.IDV (CRIXIVAN) 180 tablets ราคา 2160 THB
9.3TC " LAMIVIR 60 tablets 570 THB
10. 3TC " LAMIVIR 30 tablets 570 THB
11.LPV/RTV " Aluvia 60 tablets 1440 THB
12.LPV/RTV " Kaletra 180 tablets 5400 THB
13.NVP " NERAVIR 60 tablets 960 THB
14.RTV " Norvia 84 tablets 3024 THB
15.SQV " Invirase 120 tablets 9360 THB
16.D4T " STAVIR 60 tablets 240 THB
17.TDF " Viread 30 tablets 1350 THB
18.AZT " ANTIVIR 100 tablets 650 THB
19.3TC+AZT " Zilavir 60 tablets 1230 THB
20.3TC+NVP+D4T" GPO vir S-30 60 tablets 990 THB
21.3TC+NVP+AZT ''GPO vir Z-250 60 tablets 1320 THB
Stay Tuned! More to come. ...and don't forget to reply ;)
Welcome to the forums .
edited by Ann to remove personal info
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Hi ratcat,
Thanks and grateful for ur post of the medication in thailand. Really appreciate ur kindness in sharing the precious information.
Hope your familiarity in thailand would be able to clarify some of the doubts i had for the medication and treatment cost in thailand. Would like to check with you if you would know of this hospital in thailand known as
Bumrungrad International Hospital
http://www.bumrungrad.com/thailandhospital
Thanks
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Hi ratcat,
Thanks and grateful for ur post of the medication in thailand. Really appreciate ur kindness in sharing the precious information.
Hope your familiarity in thailand would be able to clarify some of the doubts i had for the medication and treatment cost in thailand. Would like to check with you if you would know of this hospital in thailand known as
Bumrungrad International Hospital
http://www.bumrungrad.com/thailandhospital
Thanks
Very good hospital, but expensive, many other good hospitals in BK.
But it has the sexiest nurses you are likely to see, it is also the only hospital I've
seen with a McDonald and a KFC inside
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Hi J, and glad that you appreciated the post as I placed it here just to help out. From what I understand, Bumrungrad is a very good hospital and has an ID Specialist on staff. I'll check it out in a couple of months myself. Recently I have found heaps of information on Thai Visa.com, which is a pretty big forum here. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
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Hi all:
I live in the US, and I am recently diagnosed. I am currently taking Complera. I wonder, if I can buy medication in Thailand anonymously. I have family living in Bangkok, and I don't want them or the goverment to find out. I only want 30-day supply of medication.
Here is my questions. I only want to see a doctor once a year or every other year so that I can occasionally buy 30-day supply of medication. What hospital or clinic require the lease amount of information from me? Can I just give them my name and cell phone number, and not address? Will they report my identity to the government?
Thank you.
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Hi all:
I live in the US, and I am recently diagnosed. I am currently taking Complera. I wonder, if I can buy medication in Thailand anonymously. I have family living in Bangkok, and I don't want them or the goverment to find out. I only want 30-day supply of medication.
Here is my questions. I only want to see a doctor once a year or every other year so that I can occasionally buy 30-day supply of medication. What hospital or clinic require the lease amount of information from me? Can I just give them my name and cell phone number, and not address? Will they report my identity to the government?
Thank you.
Your post is very confusing. You say you live in the US and your previous posts indicate that you have health insurance.
Yet you're asking about buying meds in Thailand. Does this mean you are in Thailand for a month, visiting family? If that is the case, why don't you just get your doctor in the US to prescribe you enough meds for while you're away? You CAN travel with meds.
One of the more confusing parts of your post is this: "I only want to see a doctor once a year or every other year so that I can occasionally buy 30-day supply of medication" You do understand, don't you, that you need to be seeing a doctor every three months and you have to take the meds every day. You can't just take them for a month here and there. You'll end up with resistance issues if you do that.
Can you clarify?
Actually, you may want to start your own thread in either the Living or the Treatments forum and if you do, please clarify the issues I outlined above. Thanks.
Ann
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ratcat
Welcome to the forum.
You do realise there is fabulous health care in many parts of the world. And sometimes it has to do with the ability to pay for it, and sometimes it does not.
It is always helpful to tell others about experiences in different countries.
It is also good to know the writers own "position" in the system he is describing, that the reader can understand how to extrapolate, to other people in that society, or how that nation compares to others.
I know people who have great HIV care and treatment in Saudi Arabia. Needless to say, Saudi Arabia is not going to welcome me into their country and provide the same! ;D
I know people who have great care and treatment in the USA.
All the fabulous experiences you relate about Thailand are available to everyone?
Also, you talk the truth about the downsides about how tough it can be in the USA but you don't clarify your personal "position" - e.g. your finances, your value in the employment marketplace. So your comments become a bit general, vague, not very helpful.
But, living in the USA, especially with this disease seemed like such a chore. The idea of becoming part of the welfare system did not sit well with me and seemed very complicated.
There are many many people living with HIV who do manage easily enough the financials. And many don't. So if you were heading for the public assistance experience in the USA, why is this WIPED AWAY in Thailand? Treatment is cheap. But is it just cheap for you, because you have American resources? That go much further in thailand?
Can a poor, non-thai person move to Thailand as an "HIV refugee" - from the USA, for example - and get the treatment that you are getting or expect to get there? Get a job? So working at a Thai salary leads to better HIV+ lifestyle than working at an American salary and not getting jack squat and having to use public assistance???
I get some of your themes but with time I hope you explain them better.
I know that I am somewhat of an HIV+ permanent expat. Just because the only place I've done my current job is here in Switzerland, and my salary is high enough to be middle class here, and I can afford the health care I need, though obviously this is now all subsidized, as my yearly insurance payments are far less than my yearly expenses to the insurance company. I don't think I could move back to the USA, get a job, at my age, at my salary, and get insurance, and start again.
But I can move to Thailand and everything will be peachy?
That's great, because here in Switzerland I won't have much retirement. I can move to thailand in 10 years, and get cheap ass high quality drugs, made even cheaper because my salary was earned at Swiss levels, and get excellent medical care for a pittance? Hmm, sounds tempting! The Thai are waiting for me to arrive with open arms?
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@Ann....
I'm sorry for the confusion. So here is the situation. I am receving 30-day supply of medication every 30 days here in the US. The doctor actually prescribed me 90-day supply, but the insurance company only allows me to buy it every 30 days. I haven't asked whether I can get all 90-day supply just in case I have to travel, but in the insurance handbook, it says that I can only get one month supply from the pharmacy, and two-month supply if I do mail order pharmacy.
I just want to make sure that I have my medication everyday because I want to avoid missing even a day of medication which can increase the chances of drug resistance. So, having exactly just enough makes me uneasy. So, I want to get an extra 30-day supply of medication in Thailand, just in case. Why Thailand? Becasue it's cheaper than buying in the US. I can afford medication in the US because I have insurance. I can get extra medication in the US, but it'll cost me about $2,100 for an extra 30-day supply of Complera--insurance will not pay for extra medication. I want extra med, and so I will always have some medication on hand. But, in order to get medication, I'm sure the doctor in Thailand wouldn't just write me a prescription because I told him to write me one. That's why I need to see him and perhaps show him my lab results and medication I'm taking in the US so that he can write me a prescription of 2 or 3 pills equivalent to Complera (Thailand doesn't carry Complera).
The 30-day reserve probably would last a long time because I do plan to get my prescription filled every month and see my doctor in the US every 3 months. Hence I probably need to see a doctor in Thailand once every year or every other year so that I can buy the extra 30-day supply of medication that I will use as a reserve or last resource medication. So that amount of reserve would probably last me a year or two. By the way, I have to go to Thailand anyway to visit my family. So, it just works out. The problem is that I never have to see a doctor in Thailand before so I don't know whether they report my HIV status to the government like they do in the US. I just don't want my family or the Thai government to find out. That's why all the questions about buying HIV meds anonymously.
As you can see, it's a really long background information, and I didn't think people would be interested. So I just ask the questions without the background information. However, I really appreciate your asking, it shows that you really care and really try to help with the most accurate information.
Thanks for caring.
By the way, thank you for mentioning my other post--you have a really goood memory :-) I need to go back to my other post to update on the topic. I just haven't done it because I still see my claim status as pending. When it's finalized, I'll go back and do an update so that others with the same situation can learn from my experience. Right now, I'm crossing my fingers, hoping that my claims will be finalized.
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to Mech and everybody....honestly I was hoping that this post would just go away!!! Apparently I was feeling very "empowered" when I wrote this and I feel that it was a naive thing to do, so my apologies to all who were upset by this. Good luck to everyone here. If you want to know more than Google it!!!!
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I wasn't upset by the post. Rather, I thought it would be even more helpful to know the particulars about why for you, it would be public assistance in the USA and your foreboding that that would be pretty difficult. Versus why it is or will be much easier for you, in Thailand. And how your experience relates to the experience of other HIV+ people in Thailand.
Much of which has now been answered.
Not sure why you would want to the thread to be moved, or go away.
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A great start at helping the people of the country that has welcomed you would be to give a hand to the people of Baan Gerda http://www.baangerda.org/ (http://www.baangerda.org/). They do fantastic work and have indeed saved lives. Have a look at their website or go there. Maybe a better way to help than to encourage what I perceive (wrongly perhaps) as HIV tourism.
Pat
edited to change wording of last sentence
Stumbled into this by chance while browsing threads about personal issues...
Even it's an old post, many thanks for sharing. Living in Thailand I'm definitely considering visiting this place any time soon
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A good generic is Ricovir-EM 1470 baht at CM Mediclinic in Chiang Mai, Thailand. More info here - http://www.cmmediclinic.com/hiv-prep-chiangmai.html
http://www.cmmediclinic.com/ricovir-em.html
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Hmmm
Well intended posts but I'm locking the thread as its a zombie thread from 2011/2012 perhaps the topic should be a new thread.
Nico69
Welcome to the forum.
Its standard for new members to post an introduction thread and introduce themselves to the other forum members and let them know how you are getting on , how you are doing on treatment etc
So if you could first introduce yourself to the members and let them know how you are getting on with treatment & what your latest labs were like it would be highly appreciated.
Thanks
Jim