HIV positiv since 21 days.

[testii28]

I don't know where to start but I'll try to keep it as short as possible.

The last sexual contact I had was between 5-8 May 22. 
The HIV test on 24 May was negative.Two days later it started with severe fever and rash. I thought I had measles because the HIV test was negative. The fever got worse and I also got night sweats. Since it did not get better I went to the hospital and did another HIV test which was positive. It was a shock but I tried to stay calm because I had at that moment no health insurance.

A few days later I got my results.
Vl: 597000
CD4: 201

Is it normal that the CD4 drops so much during an acute infection?
Am I maybe a rapid progressor?

Since June 15 I have been taking Biktarvy. I still have a slight fever and night sweats. The doctor just told me to take the pills and to come back after 1 month.
I am feeling tired and exhausted. I hope it is not the side effect of Biktarvy.

[Jim Allen]

Hiya,

Sorry to hear about the diagnosis and that you were feeling unwell. Glad to hear that you started treatment, and hopefully, you feel better soon.

If the test results reported are correct, then you acquired HIV within the last few months, so I would say these initial results before treatment seem to be just the settling point. No point worrying about it, as you have started treatment now.

I am feeling tired and exhausted.

It can happen for many reasons: other infections, settling into treatment, immune system recovery, psychological, etc. If things worsen, don't wait a month and see your doctor sooner.

[testii28]

Hi Allen,

I have spoken with my doctor and he confirmed that for an acute infection (6 weeks ago) the CD4 is indeed low. He told me it could be due to another infection. I try to stay cool. We are not on this earth to live forever. It is quite normal.

How long did it take you to accept your infection?
Don't you think that this negative image of HIV is due to the media (gay disease etc..) in the 80-90s. It's just a virus. It is nothing special in my opinion. Sure we can die from but we can die also from millions of other things.

[Jim Allen]

Don't you think that this negative image of HIV is due to the media (gay disease etc..) in the 80-90s.

No. I think, if in some alternate universe initially HIV had only been found in straight white people during the 80s, the stigma towards those living with HIV would be far less today if not nearly gone by now.

But that did not happen and society already had a fear & hatred of the LGBT+ community. HIV initially impacted mainly that community and those individuals that were (are) hated and considered undesirable by society. The media certainly fueled this negative image and fearmongering but they are not the cause.

I would like to say it is not an issue today but it still is although at a different level.

[Jim Allen]

Had to edit that reply. just finished my first cup of coffee.

[Jim Allen]

We are not on this earth to live forever. It is quite normal.

You are not going to die anytime soon as a result of your HIV status.

It's an initial infection so, within the first few months, low points are to be expected in CD4 count although CD4% would be more telling and now you have started treatment the virus will start to be suppressed meaning the immune system doesn't have to fight a losing fight anymore, it can heal for lack of better phase and HIV  can no longer do unchallenged measured & unmeasured damage to your immune system.

I know it can be rough at first and feel overwhelming, know that you are not alone and give yourself and the medication time.

[testii28]

A good approach is perhaps not to put the virus in the center of life.
We have antibodies from different viruses in our body that are dormant. There is no reason for Hiv to be an exception. I am just trying to adjust my mindset.

I will update you when I get my new results. Thank you for your support man.   

[Tonny2]

             ojo.            Welcome to the forum…getting an hiv dx it is overwhelming and it takes time to digest the bad news. You are not alone and we are here to support you with info and moral support…now all you need to do is take your med as prescribed and try to keep busy so you don’t think too much about your dx. I’m sure that pretty soon you will become undetectable making you feel calmer while your “soldiers” start going up again…please keep us posted, good luck…hugs

[testii28]

Hi Tonny,

thanks for your reply. The first days were a bit hard to accept the situation, but there are worse things in life than an HIV infection. It is just a virus and we can treat it.
 
If this fatigue and concentration problems disappear, everything will be perfect.

Great Forum and support.

Thanks.

[testii28]

I got the first result after one month of therapy.
CD4 jumped from 201 to 534 but unfortunately the machine for the VL didn't work. It will take a few weeks until i get the result.

@Jim, my CD4% is 38 what does it mean.  You said it will be more telling. I couldnt ask the doctor due to language barrier.

[Jim Allen]

The average normal CD4 percentage for someone who is HIV negative is +- 40%

The result means that your CD4 counts and % are not relevant moving forward, the focus is just suppressing and keeping the viral load suppressed.

[testii28]

So you mean I should not care anymore about the CD4 thing. I will keep an eye then only on the VL.

Thanks a lot.

[Jim Allen]

You should not focus on the CD4 anymore. It was rather irrelevant, but now even more so since you started treatment to suppress the virus.

So the VL is the thing to keep an eye on and to find out. If that's decreasing, it means the treatment is working.

[Tonny2]

I got the first result after one month of therapy.
CD4 jumped from 201 to 534 but unfortunately the machine for the VL didn't work. It will take a few weeks until i get the result.

@Jim, my CD4% is 38 what does it mean.  You said it will be more telling. I couldnt ask the doctor due to language barrier.

                 ojo.               Hi there again!…I like your attitude, you are on your way to learn how to live with hiv, being a fighter and not feeling sorry for yourself, now, just take your pill as prescribed and keep yourself busy.

You have great numbers, specially your cd4%, in my 28 years of readings my blood works results, your med it’s kicking hiv’s butt, you will see your viral load suppressed in your next VL test…about you feeling fatigue and your other symptom, they might be due to the med or the battle going on inside your body, your soldiers and their allies, meds, fighting the invaders, hiv. If your symptoms persist, talk to your doctor…you are going to be fine, you are not longer alone, we are here for you…please keep us posted and hang in there…hugs


Ps. Language barrier, would you like to explain it?

[testii28]

Hi , waiting for the only hiv doctor with about 50 other people in the line can be funny. Different people,culture and point of views. (rough middle east region)
Asking the doctor something and not getting an answer was a bit strange in the
beginning, so she let me jump for a few second on her seat to see my results. (Sometimes the computer freezes) 
The only thing what makes me crazy is when giving blood sample there are always more than 200 people waiting. It takes the whole day.
It sounds strange but I like the atmosphere, it lets you feel alive and you get to know nice people.

I think the symptoms are over. There were lasting +-15 days when starting the medicine.  I can hardly wait for U=U and having sex again.

[Tonny2]

          ojo.          Hello again!!


You live in the Middle East?, I guess there is no privacy there, is there?…I feel so bad about the lack of privacy in some countries, one day, while in Mexico, I accompanied a friend to get some blood work, as soon as we got to the door of the clinic, the security guy asked us if we were there to get VL and cd4 test, we said yes and he told us where to go. That doesn’t happens to me, fortunally. I think that we deserve to have some privacy even if some of us gets “free” medical services.

Anyway, I wonder how you feel about the subject, you being there in line waiting to see the ID doctor…

I’m glad your symptoms of fatigue are over, now to go back and take beck control of your life that your med will take care of the bug.

Sorry about getting blood work taking for ever where you live but, the good news is that soon you won’t have to see “Dracula” that often…please keep us posted…good luck

[testii28]

Yep, living in the Middle East since almost 8 years. You should not care much about privacy as long the information stays in the hospital.
When I got diagnosed last month and sick as hell, I just was think how can I get an insurance and this fucking pills. At that moment I really didn't give a damn about privacy. I just wanted to be treated.

If somebody is treating you derogatory the appropriate answer has to be given. Of course there is still some kind of a guilty feelings inside me when the person (medical staff) know that I am positiv. It feels like being worth less and that I have to justify myself. Although I am fully aware that this is not them business. I will need get rid off that mindset.

When reading reports about the 90´s I am just think what the fuck was going on during this time.
 
Not victimizing yourself is the key. Everyone carries a burden in life.

How is life in Mexico?

 

[Tonny2]

                 ojo.          Hi again!!…I know what you mean, but I still think that for a newly out nfected dealing with the hiv dx, plus, as you said, “how am I going to pay for my treatment”, then, going to a place, clinic, that only people with hiv is treated and that, maybe, someone that knows you, see you going inside to that hiv clinic, (true story of a friend of mine), it’s just too much to take. But you are right, you have to be treated…I was diagnosed on November 94, read my thread, and, obviously, I didn’t care who health care employee knew about my dx, as a matter of fact, I haven’t told anybody about my dx, just my family knows.

I do not live in Mexico, but I have friends in Mexico and they tell me
What they have to go through.

I thought, according there a fellow member told me, that if you are diagnosed with hiv, you could be sent to jail, is that true?.

Ok, it’s nice to read stories from other parts of the globe and realize how lucky most of us are for living where we live, in the west (USA) we n my case…good luck and, and please, keep us posted…hugs


Ps. Thankfully I had private conversation bsurance when I got my dx, although, my co-payments made me filed for bankruptcy.

[leatherman]

Hey! Glad you found this forum....and sad you had to find it.

So you mean I should not care anymore about the CD4 thing.

so here's the info about cd4s:

under 200 you are highly susceptible to getting an opportunistic infection (which could be deadly, if the HIV is left untreated

above 200, well, unless you had your cd4s checked before HIV then you really can't know what your "normal" value is. Whatever that normal for you is, it's based on the genetics passed by your parents and there's really not much you can do to change them. No drugs, no operations. However, treating HIV, eating healthy, exercising, enough sleep, less stress - all those things will help your cd4s get as high as they can.

but even high cd4s doesn't mean a lot. There's no test to find out how strong your cd4s are, just how many. Some people with low cd4s live healthy live, and some people with higher cd4s get sick easily. Of course, for most people more cd4s mean a better immune system and that means more healthy.

CD4s are fickle numbers anyway. they can change by up to 100 pts a day. It's best to view cd4s, not as a single count, but as the trend of at least 3 tests over at least 6 months. Oh and that's not always a straight line getting better or getting worse. It can just as easily be an up-and-down trend that makes you look at a longer time span to get a better of view of the long-range trend.

the cd4% is a more stable number; but again, it's more of a quanity number than a quality number about your cd4s.

If somebody is treating you derogatory the appropriate answer has to be given. Of course there is still some kind of a guilty feelings inside me when the person (medical staff) know that I am positive. It feels like being worth less and that I have to justify myself. Although I am fully aware that this is not them business. I will need get rid off that mindset.
 
Not victimizing yourself is the key. Everyone carries a burden in life.

You have a really great attitude and, trust me, that'll get you through a lot! I say trust me because without a positive attitude I would have never survived nearly dying twice, losing two partners, being HIV+ 38 yrs taking meds for 30 yrs. Not to mention a house fire, 3 home robberies, dealing with homophobes, cars breaking down and stranding me, losing a lot of my pets through the years, etc., you know, all that crap life can throw at you. You know the old saying, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"? Well that really is true! Unless the problems you're dealing with actually physically kill you, then somehow you WILL survive. I look back now at those issues I went through. Part of me remembers how I never thought I would be able to resolve them, but here it is decades later and those issues have zero bearing of my happy life with my happy husband and our happy dog.

The best way to get through life, and to live with HIV, is to do it with a positive attitude

[leatherman]

When reading reports about the 90´s I am just think what the fuck was going on during this time.

Hahahaha
I think WTF about the 00s, 10s and 20s too. LOL 
I enjoyed my childhood in the 70s with care about the ecology, disco, ELO and the movie grease; but I really loved the 80s with Prince and Purple Rain, day-glo, a million one hit wonders, and finally having sex when I was 21. WooHoo!

No. I think, if in some alternate universe initially HIV had only been found in straight white people during the 80s

don't think less of me but there were years I wished that's how it would have gone. Maybe people would have cared more and maybe fewer of my friends and partners wouldn't have died before they even turned 30.

[testii28]

Thanks for all the nice answers. I appreciate it.  It is time to get back control and to forget about HIV. From time to time I will have a look in the forum.

@Jim, My medical record has been updated today with a new position.

HIV PCR    /  Negativ HIV -   / copies/ml    0 - 0,1 (Reference Value)

Any idea what that means regarding the VL? The doc. just said "good" which i cannot classify.

Thanks.

[Jim Allen]

Hiya,

I would read it as the PCR test could not detect any copies above its minimum threshold. That threshold is commonly 20, 50 or 200 copies.

But next time you are in the clinic ask them again and for a better answer than "good"

https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/understanding-lab-work-blood-tests
https://www.aidsmap.com/about-hiv/what-are-logs-viral-load-results

It also means in six months' time, and if you keep taking your meds, you will be unable to pass on HIV sexually. https://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=71864.0

[testii28]

Thanks Jim.

[testii28]

Hello,

after some struggle I managed to find a clinic. I am happy that this issue has been solved.

Blood results was actually fine. CD 894 /41,5%  VL undetectable.

One thing concerns me is that the Doc wanted a resistance test but couldn't do it because undetectable VL. I can have resistance with an undetectable VL? Is the possible?

Thanks

[Jim Allen]

after some struggle I managed to find a clinic. I am happy that this issue has been solved.

Blood results was actually fine. CD 894 /41,5%  VL undetectable

Glad to hear it and with the viral load suppressed it means the meds are working 

One thing concerns me is that the Doc wanted a resistance test but couldn't do it because undetectable VL. I can have resistance with an undetectable VL? Is the possible?

So standard genotypic resistance testing requires that there is a viral load present. They missed the boat on that one.

I would not be overly concerned, it is possible to have some resistance, but so far the drugs are doing their job and suppressing the virus indicating no major resistance.

https://clinicalinfo.hiv.gov/en/guidelines/hiv-clinical-guidelines-adult-and-adolescent-arv/drug-resistance-testing

A few years ago, there was a paper on using proviral DNA to test for drug resistance testing when the viral load is suppressed, but I doubt it will ever be the standard or something most clinics could even order.  I would have to look later to find the paper, but for now, the answer is you need a detectable viral load for standard resistance testing.

Update:
Found the link I was thinking about: https://www.aidsmap.com/news/jan-2020/proviral-dna-resistance-testing-allows-treatment-switches-without-viral-rebound

[Jim Allen]

How are you generally feeling/doing?

[testii28]

Hi Allen, 

thanks for the details. Doing well enjoying life as usual. The UK is great, I love Scotland, nice place to live. How are you doing?

[Jim Allen]

Hi Allen, 

thanks for the details. Doing well enjoying life as usual. The UK is great, I love Scotland, nice place to live. How are you doing?

Glad to hear things are okay and you are enjoying life.  Scotland is nice, my next trip to Scotland is on the 4th of Feb, just visiting Edinburgh and Glasgow this time. 

[testii28]

Drop me a message when you are around.