Risk of HIV Infection from One-Time Exposure with Chlamydia Girl Friend

[transcend50]

What is the risk (if any) of fingering with hangnails and small cuts and scrapes on the skin just below the cuticle?  I did not notice the condition of my fingers befor fingering for several minutes (vagina and anus), but the next morning noticed the cuts, scrapes, and redness.  The area was tender and a bit inflamed (which seems to be common when the skin has peeled back), but I do not believe the cuts and scrapes occurred during or immediately before the fingering experience.  Several minutes of fingering would seem to preclude the benefit of the virus being weakened or destroyed by exposure to air.  The data seem to indicate clearly no risk when the skin is fully intact.   Is it equally clear when cuts and scrapes like these are present?  Has the risk been quantified?

[Andy Velez]

No, the risk has never been quantified because there have never been any documented cases of transmission through nicks, scrapes, hangnail sores, bruises, cuts, etc.

These all fall under the heading of theoretically possible. But in the real world of HIV science transmission just doesn't happen in this way.

You are worrying needlessly. Really.

If you haven't already done so, please read the lesson on Transmission. There's a link to it in the Welcome thread which begins this section.

Cheers,

[transcend50]

I appreciate very much your taking the time to respond and share these insights.  I had in fact read the general information on the site and was reticent to post the question, because the point was addressed in general terms.   My decision to post the question reflected concern that there may be some factors that differentiate the situation or at least establish some unknowns.  Is it possible that there are no recorded cases of transmission from fingering because there typically are co-factors (e.g., other sexual contact points) that make it difficult to isolate this practice?  There also are advisory sources that cite fingering as a risk factor, which puts the information seeker in the challenge position of trying to sort out the competing interpretations.   My concern was elevated by physical symptoms that commenced 12 days after the experience and included mild malaise and body ache, dry cough, sinus congestion, a fleeting diarrhea  moment after some very hot and spice food  – but oddly no fever.  Adding to my unease is the fact that, after calling my partner and suggesting the wisdom of blood testing as a condition for possibly greater freedom in our encounters (and who has been very eager  to be with me),  her phone is disconnected.  Is it safe to say that the symptoms experienced are consistent with what happens when there is prolonged intimate contact with another person (HIV+ or HIV-) – that is, one is likely to pick up any number of nonspecific bugs that are foreign and upsetting to your system (in this case, no unprotected intercourse but lots of heavy kissing and fingering).   I typically am meticulous to the extreme when it comes to safety and sex and actually help fund an AIDS education project in another country.   What I know (which is turns out is very general and includes awareness of how the mind can play tricks) nonetheless is challenged by the timing of the symptoms I experienced (unusual ones for me), conflicting information from on-line sources, and the tendency to obsess over not just real but imagined risk.  I do not want to overload the process if I am recycling what others already have raised, offer some thoughts in hope they add some value to the dialogue, and would appreciate your letting me know if any of the information set forth in this message presents an angle that would cause you to rethink your previous assessment and advice.   

[RapidRod]

You can put all the concerns you have down all you want. The fact is, NO ONE has ever been infected by FINGERING. This has been going on over 25 years, don't you think if fingering was a risk, it would be known by now. You need to quit wasting your time on these ridiculous worries and move on with your life.

[Ann]

trans,

It doesn't matter whether this woman is hiv positive or not. You still had no risk. Fingering, no matter what sort of spin you can think of to put on it, is NOT a risk for hiv infection.

Ann

[transcend50]

Thanks all for the advice and insight.  One technical question.  I have been searching the site in vain for an explanation of what the smalll boxes "ignore" and "unignore" means.  Any guidance on how to navigate for this information?  Thanks.

[Ann]

Trans,

If you click on the ignore button under a person's name, you will no longer see any posts from that person. To unignore them, you need to go into your profile and delete them off your ignore list.

Ann

[transcend50]

I note the HIV Transmission Lesson identifies one case of documented HIV transmission from cunnilingus.  I also note the observations by researchers that it is difficult to identify actual risk of HIV transmission from oral sex, insofar as cunnilingus typically does not take place in isolation from other acts.  How do I resolve the ambiguity here for strictly and exclusively giving oral sex to a woman?  Thanks. 

[transcend50]

Please disregard the prior posting, which is dated.  I have managed to botch the posting process and hope I get it right this time.  The message I wanted to post is as follows:

I note the HIV Transmission Lesson identifies one case of documented HIV transmission from cunnilingus.  I also note the observations by researchers that it is difficult to identify actual risk of HIV transmission from oral sex, insofar as cunnilingus typically does not take place in isolation from other acts.  How do I resolve the ambiguity here for strictly and exclusively giving oral sex to a woman?  How would you quantify the risk on a scale of 1 to 100?  Thanks.

[Andy Velez]

We are not in the guessing business. If you were to come to us with an incident in which you had experienced HIV+ blood pouring into your mouth -- say the woman you were giving cunnilingus to was menstruating and you had bad oral care or a fresh cut open in your mouth I might say ok, get tested just to be sure.

But those are very unlikely circumstances aren't they? So given the realities in the world of HIV science ordinarily we would not consider giving cunnilingus risky and do not advocate testing.

You're working yourself into a state over this unnecessarily. Really. I guess if you finally can't let go about it otherwise, then get tested at 13 weeks. But that's only for your peace of mind and not because you had a real risk. Really.

[transcend50]

I notice the primer on HIV transmission distinguishes between theoretical and documented on oral sex risks and notes the significant disparity in gender-specific risks.  My sexual contact is heterosexual and recently has included an instance of unprotected oral sex both me on her and her on me.  As I read the information in the HIV transmission lesson, the risk of oral sex appears to be primarily theoretical rather than documented.  Given some of the reporting problems identified in the lesson, how reliable is this data truly?  I raised this question some time ago, but wonder if there has been any new data that sheds more light.  Also, even though I understand the higher proportion of men than women who are HIV positive in the United States, I do not understand why the transmission rate is higher from men than from women.  Is this also because the vaginal fluid is a less efficient transmitting agent?  I cannot imagine this to be so, given the relatively even incidences in Africa.  Thank you.   

[RapidRod]

You've been here long enough to know the guidelines on posting. Your questions won't be discussed till you put them in your original thread.

[transcend50]

My girl friend is 30 years old and lives in the Dominican Republic.  I have been with her for four years in a supposedly monogamous relationship.  I have been diagnosed with chlamydia, which indicates to me that she has been with at least one other man in an unprortected situation (she is not a sex-worker).  I tested negative for HIV three months ago, and have had sex with her only once since then.  I read on an earlier posting that the risk of infection for a one-time exposure (man to woman vaginal sex) was less than 1 in 2,000.  I assume this is based on US rather than world-wide data.  Can anyone give me some insight into my risk situation?  Thanks.   

[transcend50]

My girl friend is 30 years old and lives in the Dominican Republic.  I have been with her for four years in a supposedly monogamous relationship.  I have been diagnosed with chlamydia, which indicates to me that she has been with at least one other man in an unprortected situation (she is not a sex-worker).  I tested negative for HIV three months ago, and have had sex with her only once since then.  I read on an earlier posting that the risk of infection for a one-time exposure (man to woman vaginal sex) was less than 1 in 2,000.  I assume this is based on US rather than world-wide data.  Can anyone give me some insight into my risk situation?  Thanks.   

[transcend50]

Actually, I put it in the original thread and then saw the cue that it was beyond 60 days.  Sorry for the misstep.  How best to repost?  Thanks. 

[Ann]

trans,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.




Chlamydia is MUCH more easily transmitted than hiv. Having chlamydia doesn't necessarily mean you have hiv.

If you've been having unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse with a person you cannot be sure you're in a monogamous relationship with, you need to test for hiv at three months past your last unprotected encounter for a conclusive result. 

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

[transcend50]

Ann.  Thank you very much for the response and for the help on merging my threads.  For some reason, I have difficulty navigating the web site but will try to be more functional.  I appreciate the insight and am was stunned after four years of what I and others thought was a very secure relationship.  Because chlamydia is much easier to catch, is there some likelihood that it would have been caught on a one-time exposure?  If so, this helps assuage my concern that her infection was long-standing.  In addition to feeling hurt, I (like others in my situation) am nervoiusly counting the days until testing and pondering the likelihood of an HIV infection.  I appreciate the attention you have given me and welcome any other insight.   

[Ann]

trans,

Yes, you certainly can get chlamydia from a one-time exposure, and you're likely to as well when the other person has it and condoms aren't used. It is also very possible for chlamydia - and gonorrhea too - to be present without symptoms. Up to 60% of people don't.

Ann

[transcend50]

Thanks again for your time and help.  The various reports I read on the odds of getting HIV-infected from this exposure are encouraging -- although they seem to vary rather widely (1 in 40 versue 1 in 400 versus 1 in 2000).  Do you have any thoughts on the early detection test, or shall I simply wait and sweat out the 12 weeks? 

[Andy Velez]

Trans, those kinds of stats don't really help or give you the answer you want. Only an HIV test taken at a proper time (12 or 13 weeks after the last unprotected intercourse), will give you a reliable result.

It is significantly harder to transmit HIV from female to male. That makes the odds of testing negative to be significantly in your favor. However, until if and when the issue as to whether you are in a securely monogamous relationship in which both you and your partner are reliably negative, until that time may happen you should be using a condom everytime you have vaginal or anal intercourse.

Get busy with other things now in your life while waiting to test. It will help the time to pass more quickly than you may imagine is possible.

Cheers. 

[transcend50]

Thanks for the time and encouragement.  The numbers outside the US seem to indicate female to male is more common than here, but I trust your judgment and appreciate the insight.