supplements

[HIV? poz about being neg]

going on 31 months positive still not on meds.
here is a list of stuff I'm taking any thoughts on things to add or remove?

1 multi vitamine 1-a-day, vitamine E 400IU, Vitamine C 2000mg, B-100, Calcium with D, Zinc 50 , Flaxseed oil 1000mg, Salmon oil 1000mg, Immuno Pro Formula, Selenium 200mcg, Red Reishi 1000mg, Resveratrol 200mg, Astragalus 470mg, Coenzyme Q10 150mg, EgCg 400 mg, SPV 30 Boxwood, MSM 1000mg, NAC, Alpha-Lipoic Acid 600mg, Celt Immuno care 800mg, Cranberry 500mg, Acidopholus, L-Carnitine, Olive extract 500mg, Blueberry 500mg, Spirolina, and 1 boost meal shake after each meal.  The boost shakes I am taking because I'M 5'9 and 145# I have not lost or gained weight since I have been positive.

[madbrain]

going on 31 months positive still not on meds.
here is a list of stuff I'm taking any thoughts on things to add or remove?

1 multi vitamine 1-a-day, vitamine E 400IU, Vitamine C 2000mg, B-100, Calcium with D, Zinc 50 , Flaxseed oil 1000mg, Salmon oil 1000mg, Immuno Pro Formula, Selenium 200mcg, Red Reishi 1000mg, Resveratrol 200mg, Astragalus 470mg, Coenzyme Q10 150mg, EgCg 400 mg, SPV 30 Boxwood, MSM 1000mg, NAC, Alpha-Lipoic Acid 600mg, Celt Immuno care 800mg, Cranberry 500mg, Acidopholus, L-Carnitine, Olive extract 500mg, Blueberry 500mg, Spirolina, and 1 boost meal shake after each meal.  The boost shakes I am taking because I'M 5'9 and 145# I have not lost or gained weight since I have been positive.

That's quite a list - I think you have me beat on the supplement list by about 7 .
Are you taking all of the above supplements for HIV, or for any other reasons ?

First, looking over your lab results, you are really borderline for meds. Your CD4% is not great. You have had several CD4 tests below 350 . And your VL continues to be fairly high. If I had your labs, I would seriously entertain starting HAART. What does your doc say ?

My suggestions looking over your supplement list quickly :

1) Do you need that much extra zinc ? I think the research has been mixed on it - some say it's good for HIV, some not.  A good multi-vitamin should have enough zinc that you don't need a separate zinc tablet.

2) 2000 mg of vitamin C is a bit on the high side. If you account for all the vitamin C in your multi-vitamin and herbs, it probably adds to 2500mg or so. I would not take more than 1000mg extra and many would say 500mg extra is enough. Take the extra only when you have colds/flu.

3) not quite sure you want both flaxseed and salmon oil. One omega-3 supplement should be good. You probably don't need omega-6 or 9 in supplement form.

4) what's in immuno pro formula and cell immuno care ?

5) I don't think the research on mushrooms has been very convincing. I tried some but dropped them. Maybe drop the red reishi or at least review any studies you can find about it. I don't recall seeing any relating to HIV. There were some about maitake, but I wasn't convinced.

6) not sure about boxwood. I only found one old study (1996). I would say skip it.

7) you probably take MSM, cranberry, blueberry and spirulina for something other than HIV, right ?

8 ) get your vitamin D level checked. Most people need more than the 400IU in a multi-vitamin or calcium/vitamin D pill unless they are out in the sun a lot. If you take any kind of med (not necessarily HAART), it can also deplete your D. I take 5800 IU and my last D level still came out on the low side , though not deficient .

[risred1]

Concurring largely with Madbrain regarding your current CD4 and VL.

I certainly took my share of supplements for the 5 years I was diagnosed poz. And when I hit your CD4 count, my doc said it was time.

I was able for quite some time to keep my cd4 above 350, but the trend is to start earlier than that.

Supplementation at best can only delay HIV progression... AT BEST.

Supplementation seems to have minimal effect on VL, in my opinion. I used supplementation to deal with side effects of HIV primarily. And Hopefully, that has helped me in making the transition to meds, as my VL dropped rapidly and my CD4 boosted nicely one month after starting meds.

I am not saying, "go on meds now". I am not a doctor. This is between you and your doctor of course.

But I tried to ride out supplementation looking for a boost and that became a waste of time and my CD4 dropped to 290 fairly rapidly once I started to fall out of the 400's. Everyone is different of course.

And, once you go on meds, you really need to reconsider all your supplementation. I have trimmed my considerably, removing herbal completely. I now take a multi, NAC, ALC, ALA and 7-Keto DHEA, and D3 when I'm not getting much sun. That's it.

If your concerned about the transition to meds, well, many of us are or were, because the mindset on meds is still trailing reality. PI based Regimen using Reyataz or Presista, seem very very tolerable. My combo of Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada, well, I barely or don't notice really any side effects after 3 weeks.

Many folks share that same story. Concerns about meds, but then realization that the sides are not as bad as we thought they might be, and after the adjustment period, for many, not a concern. (I'm not talking about long term effects of Meds, but just the difficult immediate sides such as Nausea, Diarrhea....)

Not everyone does have a smooth go of it, and not everyone is 100% AOK with meds. But, I believe based upon commentary on these forums, overall, meds have improved dramatically. I do see commentary from LTS that illustrate a better day to day tolerability, although there may be issues with Osteoporosis, Renal, Vascular, Hepatic issues.

A good example is Atripla. There are folks who just don't like the CNS effects. But overall, on 2% of folks out there absolutely cannot tolerate Atripla. We can project that the remaining 98% who can tolerate cross the spectrum of no side effects to some but tolerable effects to some who are trying to figure out if they should change regimens.

Some of this does relate to how low your CD4 count your willing to go. Those who go above 350, seem to have better transition, than those who start in a salvage mode.

If you have concerns about the transition to meds, please state your concerns in the Questions about Treatment forum. I know you'll get allot of honest feedback there.

Good Luck.

[HIV? poz about being neg]

Thanks for the responses.  Well I wasn't overly concerned about my numbers until now. LOL !
My Doctors words to me are that I am coasting right along. Everything looks really good according to her.
So now I don't know?