oral with blood - very frightened

[erama]

Hi All

I wanted to get an assessment of my risk and whether I needed to test. I have posted on Medhelp and got some helpful answers from some of the members like Teak and Lizzy Lou but not any of the doctors and wanted to get some views from some experts here and would appreciate any views.

My story is that I went to a csw and asked for a handjob. The lady performed the handjob with her head leaning over the top of my penis. About 3 or 4 minutes into the jandjob it seemed that blood and some saliva started drooling out of her mouth and onto my urethra. I am worried I may have contracted HIV now. I cannot fathom what might have caused this or if I was imagining it but it seemed dark material coming out her mouth.

About 5 days later I developed a fever on anf off at 101.5 degrees for three days and had an ear infection which I took antibiotics for. I also developed a chest cough with a stuffy nose and green mucous at the same time. My body was a little sore as well. That went away after about a week and yesterday I developed a few red spots across the top of my chest. It was not across my whole body but across the top of my chest. what confuses me is that there was a flu going around and some people that attended a children's birthday party with our kids developed a similiar infection around this time.

I know the circumstances seem crazy but I was shocked as well. I do not know whether to go back to the csw and ask her for a test. When this happened, she said she wasn't even aware she had drooled and said she didn't have HIV. When I went to wipe myself, it looked a little brown so I thought it was confirmation of blood. I know there is no chance of HIV through a handjob but I am worried that if it was blood, then it has infected me.

Can I get HIV this way and are my symptoms consistent with ARS and the time frame. Do I need to test?

Thank you all for any help you are willing to give as I am very frightened. I am a married man and probably did something very stupid.

[RapidRod]

HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions, therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.

[Andy Velez]

Nothing you did put you at risk for HIV. In fact the only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. Use condoms consistently for those activities and you will be well protected.

No, your symptoms are not HIV specific and in fact neither the presence nor the absence of symptoms will never tell you anything accurately about your HIV status. Only an HIV test can tell you that if you have had unprotected intercourse. But you haven't had a risk so testing is not necessary. If your symptoms persist you should discuss them with your doctor.

This is not an HIV situation. Period.

[erama]

Thank you Andy. I thought the science behind transmission of HIV is access to blood or blood product in the urethra?. I can understand that HIV is not transmitted from a simple blowjob with saliva but this was what I thought looked like blood. ie my urethra might have been contaminated from blood coming out of her mouth possibly to recent sores that I could not see or possibly vomit. It was such an unusual experience and completely frightening. She said she didn't even notice blood coming out. Must I believe this? Does it change the advice if she is in fact positive? Should I ask her to test? Sorry to take up your time.

[erama]

Jkinatl2 I have read some of your responses with admiration because you often provide detailed scientific perspectives to cases. Would you be so kind as to give me some perspective on my own situation? Ann also if you don't mind providing your thoughts.

I don't want to keep coming back with what if's but am trying to round out the expert advice.

Thanks again .

[Ann]

erama,

You weren't at risk. Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily transmitted INSIDE the human body, as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse where the virus never leaves the confines of the two bodies.

Once outside the body, small changes in temperature, and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect.

Not one person has ever been infected through a handjob where spit was used as lube and you aren't going to be the first.

And forget about any possible blood present. Saliva contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. So between the saliva and being outside the body, no way would you have been at risk.

Here's what you need to know in order to remain hiv negative:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST OVER THIS HANDJOB, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

[erama]

Thanks Ann. Is your advice the same even if there was visible blood present an assuming the CSS was positive? Also, in your opinion are the symptoms consistent with ARS?

Thanks

[erama]

Other than this experience I haven't participated in intercourse outside my marriage. I never have anal or vaginal sex with sex workers.

[RapidRod]

   Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

[Ann]

erama,

When we give risk assessments in this forum, we always do so from the point of view that the other person is hiv positive. Always. So no, my assessment does not change; you were not at risk.

You need to remember that I am hiv positive. I have a vested interest in knowing what is and what is not a risk because I do not want to pass my virus onto anyone else. Ever.  To that end, I have extensively studied the scientific literature on hiv transmission and base my risk assessments on that literature. I also base my assessments on personal experience and to date, I have never shared my virus. I've been poz since 1997.

Ann

[erama]

Ann

Thanks so much for sharing and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

It is just such a scary place to be because I know my limits when I go to sex workers. I don't have anal or vaginal intercourse with them. This incident was so out of the ordinary as to what happened that it felt like she did it intentionally.

I do not want to post endlessly here and have read the rules of the forum. It sounds to me like I don't need to test over this and I can expect a negative if I do test? I don't know what to say to my wife why I can't have intercourse with her until I am tested . If Andy could help with a pointer that would be great.

Please don't warn me yet as all I am trying to do is get a good perspective from a shocking experience. I only want to learn about this and not transmit anything if it did happen. I pray it didn't .

Thanks.

[Andy Velez]

For you getting tested is strictly for your peace of mind and not because you actually had a risk for transmission. Because you didn't. And getting a negative result is a slam dunk for you.

So you can have relations with your wife without any fear of transmitting a virus you don't have.

Guilt is a whole other issue. You did what you did and you can't undo that. The best thing you can do for all concerned is to see it, take a breath and let it go and get on with your life.

Really.

[erama]

Andy

Thank you so much for your advice. I am trying to breathe easier over this but I have noticed there are some rashes developing again around my shoulders and neckline. I really thought I would be okay but this is puitting me into panic mode again. I have also developed headaches around one side of my face. I really don't know what to do because this seems like ARS at 4 weeks and the CSW is not contactable anymore. I am so scared.

[Ann]

erama,

ARS symptoms do not come and go like you are describing.

You did not have a risk for hiv infection. Show your rash to a doctor and get a proper diagnosis. Whatever is going on has nothing to do with hiv. You did not have a risk for hiv infection!

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned!

Ann

[erama]

Ann / Andy

I went to the doctor today to show my rash and discuss the severe headaches I have been having as suggested by Ann. The doctor said I had a low risk and sent me for an antigen test. Do we know if the antigen is a duo  test or just measure p24 in Canada? Can there be a risk of a false positive? I am trying so hard to get this behind me.

I accept that the first few symptoms might have come on early but the rash and severe headaches got me very worried and that is why took the advice. Do the symptoms happen together?

I am begging that you don't give me a time out whilst I am trying to get support for something I truly don't understand well. I am just wanting advice from people that know more than me. I am trying desperately to 'breathe' as Andy often suggests, but am finding it so difficult.

[Ann]

Erama,

The pertinent fact in your case is that you did NOT HAVE A RISK of hiv infection in the first place.

An antigen test looks for antigens that are present in the first few weeks of infection. But you'd know this if you'd bothered to read the Welcome thread like you're supposed to before posting. There's a link in that thread that leads to a full explanation of hiv diagnostic tests.

I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. You have NOT had a risk for hiv infection.


Ann

[erama]

Dear Ann/ Andy

I had a test at 8 weeks which had a negative result. It was a p24 test and antibody test (combo). Can I consider this to be a final test or must I wait 12 weeks for a conclusive result? I had all symptoms which I thought were ARS.

Thanks for all your patience and input.

[Ann]

erama,

Considering the fact that you never had a risk in the first place, your test result is conclusive. You do not have hiv.

If you try to use this forum to question your conclusive negative result, you will be given another time out. Please consider yourself warned.

Ann