Probiotics increasing CD4 count?

[pozzitive]

Does anyone know or have tried anything like this?

This is what I found online:
http://nybc.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/probiotics-bifidus-in-hiv-kids-boosts-cd4-count/

http://www.thebody.com/content/art52570.html

Anyway I started taking a daily dose of PROBIOTICS a while ago and I am curious to see my next lab results.
Has anyone tried this?

[Nestor]

I eat yoghurt regularly, as well as other lactic acid-containing things such as fermented vegetables (I make my own kimchi), miso and so forth.   I have no idea if it's doing anything for my t-cells; it isn't with that idea in mind that I eat them.

  I often think I should "test" these things by eating lots of one thing before one blood test, and lots of something else before another, but there would be no way to control for so many other possible influences and simply for normal fluctuation. 

[Inchlingblue]

I have been taking probiotics for years, even before I was poz. I think it's very important, there are several studies that support this. I also think fiber is very important as far as having a healthy gut.

[pozzitive]

Sounds good, I do believe that a healthy gut is a MUST!

[AndyArrow]

I eat yogurt & take a probiotic daily.

My HIV doc didn't have a strong opinion either way -- waiting for more studies.

However because I have GERD/Erosive Esophagitis & Gastroparesis my GI doc said probiotics were a MUST.  Make sure that you taking ones that pass through the stomach and are activated in the small intestine to recieve the most from them.

[Tempeboy]

Cool thread,

There's mounting evidence from research - supporting what many have been saying for years.

Recent research shows clearly that most CD4's are lost in the gut - where most of our lymphatic system lives.  The mechanism is related directly to HIV and the imbalance in flora and function that the virus and treatments are known to cause.

Bovine colostrum is also being tested.  This was presented at ICAAC -  http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2009icr/icaac/docs/092209_d.html

The saccharides (sugars) can be found in a prebiotic, the organisms in a probiotic and there are a few supplements that contain both as well as bovine colostrum.  Only draw back is if you are lactose intolerant - if you are the bovine colostrum can cause gas.

[Miss Philicia]

My lab numbers would indicate that a lack of probiotics increases CD4 count.

[PozBrian]

I've been eating a probiotic yoghurt every day for about the last tow months after a fight with clostridium. No increase in my CD4's yet. However, I will say a normal poo is one of life's under-rated pleasures. You don't always appreciated it until you've had a bout with serious diarrhea.

Hmm wonder what Freud would say about that. 

[pozzitive]

When you have diarrhea do you still take probiotics though?

[Ann]

Probiotic have never put a dent in my hiv-related diarrhea. I tried them and gave them a good few months.  Wish they did something for me, but the only difference I noticed was in my wallet.

Well, that's not altogether true. When I have to take antibiotics, I also take probiotics and it helps with the antibiotic-related thrush. Otherwise, I see no difference. Your probiotic mileage may differ.

Ann

[Inchlingblue]

Probiotic have never put a dent in my hiv-related diarrhea. I tried them and gave them a good few months.  Wish they did something for me, but the only difference I noticed was in my wallet.

Well, that's not altogether true. When I have to take antibiotics, I also take probiotics and it helps with the antibiotic-related thrush. Otherwise, I see no difference. Your probiotic mileage may differ.

Ann

Seeing no visible difference, in terms of diarrhea improvement, doesn't mean there are not many benefits happening "inside" that are just not easy to quantify.

The following is a list of some of the known benefits of probiotics:

Hydrocarbons are broken down by probiotic bacteria which means the food is being split into its most basic elements. This allows almost total absorption through the digestive system. In this way probiotics dramatically increase overall nutrition and enhance rapid cellular growth and development.

The intestinal tract is cleaned by probiotics. They go under the layer of crud on the intestinal walls, attach themselves and dislodge the accumulated decay. This waste is then flushed out naturally.

Probiotics also produce many important enzymes and increase the availability of vitamins and nutrients, especially Vitamin B, Vitamin K, lactase, fatty acids and calcium.

Continued. . .

LINK:

http://www.upwardquest.com/probiotics-benefits.html

[pozzitive]

I do get bloated and with a lot of gas, is that common?

[madbrain]

Does anyone know or have tried anything like this?

This is what I found online:
http://nybc.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/probiotics-bifidus-in-hiv-kids-boosts-cd4-count/

http://www.thebody.com/content/art52570.html

Anyway I started taking a daily dose of PROBIOTICS a while ago and I am curious to see my next lab results.
Has anyone tried this?

I have tried various probiotics since the summer of 2007. The one I take currently is acidophilus, which is one my doctor likes, and it's also fairly inexpensive compared to many proprietary probiotics.

The specific one I take is NOW acidophilus 3 billion stabilized (that means no refrigeration needed). It's 3 billion CFU per tablets. I take 2 a day. At that dose it's less than $5 a month.
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Acidophilus-Three-Billion-Stabilized-180-Tablets/383?at=0

I can't tell how much effect it has specifically on my labs, but I can't complain about my CD4 counts.

[Inchlingblue]

There are several varieties of good bacteria, acidophilus is one of them. I've read that depending on the variety, they colonize different parts of the intestinal tract so that in order to cover the whole thing it's best to get a fuller spectrum. Vitamin Shoppe has a product called Ultimate 10 Probiotic which has 10 different varieties. It doesn't need to be refrigerated and it's not that expensive.

These products don't need to be taken every single day, especially if one has dairy as part of one's diet. I take mine every other day or so. Ultimate 10 costs $19.99 for 100 capsules, which is not bad, especially if not taken every day.

I also occasionally give it to my dogs.

LINK:

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=VS-2164

[Dachshund]

When I first started on HAART I washed my meds down with vodka. My CD4 count skyrocketed. I suggest Grey Goose, but please consult your doctor first.

[BassMan]

When I first started on HAART I washed my meds down with vodka. My CD4 count skyrocketed. I suggest Grey Goose, but please consult your doctor first.

Funny you should say that, Dachshund. Over the years I've tried taking all sorts of stuff - probiotic drinks included - to try to boost my cd4 count; selenium, astragalus, coconut oil, green tea - you mention it! I have to say that I haven't really noticed any difference, my numbers usually hovering around the 600 mark. The only thing I have noticed that seems to make any difference at all is enjoying myself and having a stress-free time.

For example, in October I went on holiday to Gran Canaria for a week. I spent the days lounging by the pool, and spent the nights drinking (way too much) vodka and Red Bull, doing -ahem! - recreational substances, partying hard and staying up till dawn, eating all the wrong things and doing no exercise. By the end of the week I was exhausted. The day after I got home I was due my six-monthly blood draw. I was dreading the effect all that hedonism would have on my numbers. The result? My highest ever cd4 count of 888.

Go figure.

Carl,
Manchester, UK

PS: This information is provided for interest only and is not a recommendation ;-)

Edited for typos.

[GNYC09]

PS: This information is provided for interest only and is not a recommendation ;-)

Sorry, I'm taking it as a recommendation  

[GNYC09]

There are several varieties of good bacteria, acidophilus is one of them. I've read that depending on the variety, they colonize different parts of the intestinal tract so that in order to cover the whole thing it's best to get a fuller spectrum. Vitamin Shoppe has a product called Ultimate 10 Probiotic which has 10 different varieties. It doesn't need to be refrigerated and it's not that expensive.

I drink Kefir, which allegedly is more probiotic than yogurt, with different bacterial strains that colonize deeper in your intestinal tract and for a longer period of time.  It tastes like fizzy yogurt.  I recommend it.  It's very tasty!

[Nestor]

This is fascinating:

http://www.lhrionhealth.ca/crdcp/pdf/Nature%20Medicine%20feature.pdf

[LBpozguy]

Vitamin Shoppe has a product called Ultimate 10 Probiotic which has 10 different varieties. It doesn't need to be refrigerated and it's not that expensive.

I just ordered some and I'll let ya know how it goes!!!

LB

[Inchlingblue]

From Nestor's link above:

  
With this in mind, Critchfield is helping recruit people with HIV for a small clinical trial to assess the effects of probiotics with added fiber.


Let's not forget the fiber, people.

I just ordered some and I'll let ya know how it goes!!!

LB

Don't expect anything dramatic, you might not notice much. Plus, this is the kind of thing that could take take a while (probably weeks not days) for real benefits to kick in.

I've taken probiotics as well as fiber for a long time (since before the HIV) and I've never had any GI issues at all, even after starting meds.

[Nestor]

I'd like to point out that taking probiotics need not and in fact probably should not take the form of something that's specially packaged and sold as a probiotic.  Any traditional lacto-fermented dish, such as kimchi, saurkraut, traditional pickles, some chutneys, yogurt or kefir or some traditional drinks (beet kvass!) ought to have a lot of friendly bacteria in them.  However, with things like saurkraut and pickles it is important to distinguish between traditionally made ones, which are lacto-fermented and which have not been pasteurized, and modern mass-produced ones which have simply been soaked in vinegar and have no beneficial bacteria at all.  All people should have a certain amount of this stuff in their diet to facilitate digestion and someone who's had antibiotics should have a great deal. 

This article about something I care a lot about--the struggle to obtain real milk--is rather long, but in the middle there is a fascinating comparison between Dannon's "probiotics" and unpasteurized milk:

http://harpers.org/archive/2008/04/0081992