Documented cases oral sex leading to HIV

[Wanana]

Hi, first of all, I respect you guys to the fullest by giving the users their advice and encouragement.

I've read countless of "can I get HIV from oral sex" threads, and you guys keep telling them that there are no documented cases where this is happened.

After researching about this, I've found this:

"Oral sex with an infected partner carries a small risk of HIV infection. If a person gives oral sex (licking or sucking the penis) to a man with HIV, then infected fluid could get into their mouth. If the person has bleeding gums or tiny sores or ulcers somewhere in their mouth, there is a risk of HIV entering their bloodstream. The same is true if infected sexual fluids from a woman get into the mouth of her partner.

There is also a small risk if a person with HIV gives oral sex when they have bleeding gums or a bleeding wound in their mouth. Saliva does not pose a risk.

HIV infection through oral sex alone seems to be very rare, and there are things you can do to protect yourself."


Here it states that there IS a chance to get HIV in an oral sex intercourse, but it is less common.

"Transmission from an HIV positive active partner to an HIV negative receptive partner is generally believed to be less common. This is because HIV is normally only present in saliva in very low levels that are not sufficient to cause infection. The only risk in this scenario would be from bleeding wounds or gums in the HIV positive person’s mouth or on their lips, which may transfer blood onto the mucous membranes of the other person’s genitals or anus, or into any cuts or sores they may have."

So let's say if someone has bleeding gums/lips (the active partner, who is HIV positive) and the receptive partner (HIV negative) has a little scratch on his penis (due to shaving), the receptive partner does have a chance (theoretically, but they also say that it is documented, see link http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/transmission.htm [source: the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention]) to get infected with HIV, even when using a condom while having oral sex (to assume that the condom doesn't protect the entire penis, so the cut on the penis stays vulnerable for contact).

My question here, did you guys know that it was documented and it is possible, see the example, to get infected with HIV this way?

[RapidRod]

HIV is not transmitted by oral sex period.

No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

There is no debate (among experts) about the HIV risks associated with oral sex. The risk is so low that almost nobody who cares for HIV infected patients has ever had a patient believed to have been infected that way. Among experts, it's a semantic issue about using terms like "no risk" and "very low risk". There is no difference between my or Dr. Hook's use of "low risk" and other experts' "no risk".
DR. HANSFIELD

"And oral sex is basically safe sex -- completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex. Please educate yourself about the real risks. If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. " DR HANSFIELD

"I am sure you can find lots of people who believe that HIV is transmitted by oral sex, but you will not find scientific data to support this unrealistic concern..." DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread by touching, masturbation, oral sex or condom protected sex."- DR. HOOK

in the public HIV Prevention forum of MedHelp, TEAK and the other moderators maintain that oral sex in all forms is a zero risk activity. Would you agree with this assessment?
I TOTALLY AGREE / DR GARCIA
"HIV is not spread by masturbation, through oral sex, through kissing or other casual contact." Dr. Hook
"The observation on thousands and thousands of observations is that HIV is not spread by oral sex (of any sort)." DR HOOK
"I would not say your risk ,if he had HIV is "slim to none"- that's too high.  I would say they are effectively zero.  How much of his ejaculate or other genital  secretions you may have swallowed makes no difference.  EWH "
"As far as HIV is concerned, there is no known risk of getting HIV from performing oral sex on an infected partner, even if that person's genital secretions get into your eyes or if you swallow." Dr.Hook

[jkinatl2]

Yay! We're here to argue with you.

Except that we're not.

When evidence post HAART comes along to refute the romero and Page-Shafer studies, I will happily retract my assertions.

Also, when refuting our carefully annotated science, please provide references. We will happily show you the age of the assertions, and the flimsy patient report that made them possible.

You realize that a decade and a half ago, people cautioned against kissing as well, right? And some of that obsolete information still exists, even on the CDC website.

I would question your research, except that what you've provided isn't that.

Show me first tiered peer-reviewed scientific research,  circumventing the inaccuracy of patient report after infection, that has occurred post Romero and Page-Shafer. Also, footnotes, please.

Also, why are you here? Have you had a risk?

Please know that Ann and others do a bang-up job of IP searching, to weed out Beyond Worried Well people who attempt to circumvent time-outs and bannings by spoofing IP addresses and/or creating multiple handles. I admit I'm rotten at that myself, but I am sure this will be suitably vetted.

It is our sworn mission to STOP HIV infections. We would not present these assertions  were we not confident about - and if we did not have a solid factual foundation on which to base  - our work.

[Wanana]

It was just a hypothesis. I questioned myself because of the CDC (I assumed it would be based on facts relying information) and I've seen countless people who keep arguing that oral sex intercourse could be contagious for HIV.

That was it actually. I apologize if the post looked like I wanted to rain on your parade, again, it was just a hypothesis with a mere research and lots of rumors.

And yes I also had a risk (define risk), but I'm not worried whatsoever. Just wanted to know if these assertions were false or true.

This is my first time posting on this forum, I don't think IP searching would lead to anything useful here. I am respecting the solid informatio/proof you guys make and am very glad you guys can help the people with their problems.

Thank you for your time!

[Ann]

Wanana,

The CDC is nearly hysterical when it comes to hiv. Some of the things they publish about hiv on their website leads some states to put hiv positive people in jail for years for the simple act of spitting, regardless of the fact that there has NEVER been an incident of transmission happening this way. The CDC is the LAST place to go for hiv information. No, not even last. I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than go there to learn about hiv transmission.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST FOR HIV OVER A BLOWJOB, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann