Amazingly High CD4 T Cell numbers - Do you have? 800 900 1200etc Why?

[bimazek]

Do you have??? Amazingly High CD4 T Cell numbers -- Do you have???  800 900 1200 etc
Why?
What meds are you on?

Why do you think you have such high ones???

anyone taking any of these have high ones or other meds Trizivir, Reyataz, (booster Norvir), Procrit (for anemia) and TriCor.

Any ideas why your numbers are so so good???

[SouthSam7]

Who are you talking to and what are YOUR cd4s? 

Mine are about 320 from 180 a year ago.  I have a theory that people on non-nukes have higher cd4s much faster than those of us (me included) who are on protease inhibiters.

Sam

[Cheo63]

I've been on the same medications for the last 10 years (Epivir, Zerit and Viramune) and my cd4 count has been between 1100 - 1200 for the last 6 years.   I want to think that maybe because I started meds when my cd4 count was still high (at around 550 ).

Cheo

[allopathicholistic]

I've been on the same medications for the last 10 years (Epivir, Zerit and Viramune) and my cd4 count has been between 1100 - 1200 for the last 6 years.   I want to think that maybe because I started meds when my cd4 count was still high (at around 550 ).

Cheo

Hey Cheo - Just through casual observation of members' histories/progress on this site, I would tend to say "hear hear" to what you said about you starting meds with a high cd4 - It can work out great for some people it seems! I myself started at a low cd4  count so who know's if I'll ever break 700 or even 600

Lowest 42 (7%) VL=100,000 (Sept 2005, started HAART too)
Highest 419 (18%) VL=67 (March 2006)
Current 342 (20%) VL=<50
On Lexiva, Epzicom, Norvir

Alex

[Miss Philicia]

Since going on Fuzeon and Prezista 10 months ago I've once gone over 1,000 and a few times in the 800's.  Other times they've remained in the 700's.  Previous to this treatment they were always in the 500's though my VL was NEVER undetectable.  On this new treatment it's finally become undetectable for the first time in 15 years, and yes I began near rock bottom at diagnosis with a below-200 cd4 count of 181.

[blondbeauty]

In 4 months my CD4 count has increased from 503 to 800. I am not doing anything special I think the highest the counts when you start the better the results.

[sdcabincrew74]

I started at 22.  So, I will never be too high, in fact doc said in the beginning it would be amazing if I ever hit 300.  I bounce around now, 450-600.  Never higher, and with hope, never lower.  If I had it to do over again, I would never drop below 500.

[antibody]

just got my results cd4 was 1096. it was 794 6 months ago. i've been on Atripla 9 months.

[way.out.west]

My latest test results show CD4=1225 (48%) and VL=<50, probably very little of which I can take credit for.  Possible reasons for doing so well:

(1) Early treatment.  I joined a clinical trial during my seroconversion in May 2006, and have been taking boosted Kaletra with Trizivir twice daily ever since - no missed doses and no side effects.  Kaletra is a very powerful anti-viral.

(2) Possibly a weakened virus.  The strain of virus I have might be a weak one.  Also, the genotype shows no resistance to anti-virals, which means that all meds are available to me for treatment.

(3) Heredity.  Genetics may have a role in helping the body manage trauma or infection.    Last month, I had foot surgery and the doctor couldn’t understand why it healed in half the time it takes most other people.

(4) Diet/exercise.  I’ve been exercising regularly with weights and cardio equipment for decades and have a pretty good diet.
 
The clinical trial ends next month.  Since I'll be taking meds for many years into the future, my doctor and I have agreed to switch to a once daily regimen of Reyataz and Epzicom, which are probably a little easier long term on the cell mitochondria.  I can still go back to Kaletra/Trizivir if that doesn't work for me.

[allopathicholistic]

I started at 22.  So, I will never be too high, in fact doc said in the beginning it would be amazing if I ever hit 300.  I bounce around now, 450-600.  Never higher, and with hope, never lower.  If I had it to do over again, I would never drop below 500.

So, in fact, you do have some 'amazing numbers' to throw in his face if you so choose (His meaning the doctor's)

Hear hear to your last sentence about never dropping below 500 if you called the shots. For me I'd pick 400 as a rock bottom

Oh well.

[randym431]

A friend started at 80 in 1991, today his are 900. It can happen, but can take a long time. He swears when he went on disability and no longer had to work, his health recovered at a fast rate. Mine are around 450 after a year that started at 83. I seem to be stuck at 450. My % is lower than I like, at 16%. I think, maybe, the % is in the formula as to how fast and high your cd4's will get. If my % went into the 20's, I wonder if my cd4 would go into the 600's? Its all so different for so many. Like a mystery...

[Miss Philicia]

btw:  my latest labs as of this week are VL <50, cd4   973, cd4   42.3%

I'm really surprised that they went up that high, as 2 months ago I had my first blip since going on fuzeon/prezista.  Both my cd4's and my VL went *slightly* in the wrong direction, but it was the first time since suppressing my VL for the first time in 15 years that the undetactbleness disappeared though it only went to 100 so I really didn't worry much.  Oddly my % went up at the same time and my doctor puts a lot of stock in that number so he was still OK with it.

Still, just a few years ago in the depths of my couple spells of wasting I never thought I'd have numbers like this.  I was under 200 cd4's in 1993 so it's been a long journey, but now the game seems winnable.  Injecting fuzeon is a bitch but it's totally worth it -- wonder drug.

[Nico]

Do you have??? Amazingly High CD4 T Cell numbers -- Do you have???  800 900 1200 etc
Why?
What meds are you on?

Why do you think you have such high ones???

anyone taking any of these have high ones or other meds Trizivir, Reyataz, (booster Norvir), Procrit (for anemia) and TriCor.

Any ideas why your numbers are so so good???

Biz,
I am on all of those plus a monthly IVIG infusion, xanax and atenenol for my BP.  I also take supplements, but who knows if they do much but make my pee a pretty bright yellow.    Since my PCP episode in 2001, my numbers were around the 150-175 mark and my percent was 16.  Since staring the meds, I average between 850-925 and my percent runs between 44-47%.  No VL.  Why?  I have no clue.  I don't eat junk, don't smoke, do drink and can get stressed easily.  Been poz since 1989 just hope things keep going the way they are.

Rog

[alberche]

Hiya all!

I am over the 1000's too.

I started meds only 3 months after being infected due to a prompt diagnosis.

I am on truvada + atazanavir (+ritonavir)

My labs are:

may 2006
VL 260.000 CD4 unknown (moment of diagnosis)

june 2006 VL 64.000 CD4 1110 at that point, I started treatment
CD4 = 40%    CD4/CD8 =  0,98

september 2006 VL < 50 CD4 1280
CD4 = 42%    CD4/CD8 = 1,02

january 2007 VL < 50 CD4 920 (I was passing a very strong flu)
CD4 = 48%    CD4/CD8  = 1,19

Next labs in april...

Best regards,

:-)

[gordonh28]

I have had high t-cell counts since diagnosis back in 1995. I was diagnosed with 600, and they have been as high as 1450, but never lower than 550. Did not matter if I was on protease inhibitors or not. I started meds right out of the starting gate, and have NEVER had unprotected sex since then, so no way of reinfection with an additional strain, which I believe happens more than it is talked about.
I went through a hip replacement while I was on a 3 year drug holiday, and even though my viral load was 765000.00, my tcells still stayed above 550 or so. In February they shot back up in to the 900-1000 range. I was as surprised as anyone else, who knows why?
I am on Tricor, Zetia/ Norvir, combivir, and Lexiva. I also take anti anxiety drugs IE zanax, and Elavil as a antidepressant. So maybe it's my immune systems response to combinations of different drugs. I don't get it.
I have been involved in a study at the NIH in Bedesta Maryland for 6 years, and they keep signing me up year after year, maybe they know something I don't.
I have had lipo disorders when i should have never had them, and neuropathy from the second year of diagnosis, but I guess it is a pretty fair trade off.
Just a strange disease!!!!!! Like that Drag Queen who is so good, and no one knows who he is? I know a weird comparison, but my conclusion to the many whys?
Al H

[Central79]

I'm not on meds, and was diagnosed in Jan '06. Infected October '05. My CD4 count continues to climb - it was last at 1,020.

I think maybe it's because I'm just lucky and at the top end of what's normal for CD4. I also think that growing up in the country side might have something to do with it. I was basically raised in mud, which I think helped my immune system develop.

I'm trying to keep it where it is by eating right and drowning myself in green tea. At the moment, I think I would let my CD4 hit 350 before taking meds, as it's not something I want to do. There is also no evidence (yet) that starting any higher is beneficial.

M.

[megasept]

Do you have??? Amazingly High CD4 T Cell numbers -- Do you have???  800 900 1200 etc
Why?
What meds are you on?

Why do you think you have such high ones???...

...Any ideas why your numbers are so so good???

Yes 1100-1400 CD4s for 3-4 years (of 5)

Why? 3TC+D4T, It was obvious.

I doubt it is better to have 1400 than 600-900 CD4s, and I wonder if these (inflated) CD4s are in some way deficient copies of the ones I already had. Anyone?

Today I just hope I stay over 400 CD4 (untreated 6+ years)    -megasept

[Central79]

I doubt it is better to have 1400 than 600-900 CD4s, and I wonder if these (inflated) CD4s are in some way deficient copies of the ones I already had. Anyone?

I don't think they're deficient. There's some evidence to show that if you are bouncing back from a very low CD4 that there are "gaps" in your immune system. But so long as your CD4 is high enough to preserve all the different types of CD4 - a broad range of them then there shouldn't be a problem when you have more of 'em.

At the end of the day, it's about whether your immune system is functional in the real world, or not. If you've got KS with a CD4 of 600, you care more about the KS!

M.

[SASA39]

Both of you are right Mega and matt:
1.Yes there are gaps directly connected with your start number.the lower > the greater probability of gaps.
2.They are deficiant .More of that on www.thebody.com >Search:CD4 cells & new

[megasept]

Both of you are right Mega and matt:
1.Yes there are gaps directly connected with your start number.the lower > the greater probability of gaps.
2.They are deficient .More of that on www.thebody.com >Search:CD4 cells & new

Thanks, Matt and SASA.
1) I didn't mean to imply a leap from deficient CD4 count but from high/healthy/typical count ie 700. It was from 650-750 start #s, that I leaped up with meds.
2) SASA thanks for the link confirming my hypothesis that a huge number of CD4s linked directly to meds are second-class---deficient. Here's part of the response to an identical question in <thebody.com>:

"...Assuming that your increase in CD4 cells resulted from the use of antiretroviral therapy. If so, based upon the available data there probably are subtle differences between the CD4 cells you have now and those you had when they were lower. This includes improved function of all of your cells if your viral load is depressed and hopefully undetectable as well as possibly some new cells that will be important for preventing and fighting infection..."
     -megasept

[bimazek]

it also has to do with

nef protein which is a distructive protein produced by hiv and goes up and down more or less in somewhat lock step with VL and cd4

also the CD8 cells getting turned off is a huge issue and this also... goes up and down more or less in somewhat related  with VL and cd4 numbers

in LTNP, this was just discovered 2 weeks ago by chinese in beijing, the

hiv specific CD8 killer cells do not get switched to disfunctional mode.... all of the LTNP have fully functional
hiv specific CD8 killer cells


all the rest of us  98% of us

have


terribly disfunctional hiv specific CD8 killer cells -- the chemical switch is a yet to be discovered chemical molecule that

goes up and down with more or less in somewhat lock step with VL and cd4

add to that cd4 homing

and trim5alpha

do a search on this forum under

bimazek and


nef

homing

cd8

[randym431]

High cd4's or low, we have to be careful and very careful with our health. That friend of mine I posted about (above) with a cd4 of 800+  and a % of 30, landed in the hospital with pneumonia. Not the aids pneumonia, but pneumonia never the less. It came on him almost over night and he almost died. His lungs were full of fluid and he was put on life support. They told everyone he probably would not make it. But, once on antibiotics and life support, he got better. Within 48 hours they took him off life support and he's on the mend, and out of ICU and in a room now. Probably will be in the hospital for some time, but it looks like he beat the odds.

He lives in San Diego, so the weather is pretty nice (unlike here in the midwest), and he has some great doctors (also unlike here). So he's getting some good care and that probably made the difference.

I guess my point is, regardless of your labs and stats, our immune systems are very fragile under this virus and meds, so take care...

[Central79]

Too true Randy.

I have a mate who went into hospital with pneumonia - he survived, but I guess even neggies die of something!

One of the disappointments of HAART is it hasn't really made much of a difference on a lot of the cancers people with HIV suffer from. The incidence of non-Hodgekins lymphoma hasn't really gone down in the age of HAART, the same with cervical cancer. KS seems to be the only AIDS-defining cancer improved by HAART and a decent CD4 count.

Still, things will get better I hope. I was looking at the HIV lifecycle thingy on this site and thinking about how many different mechanisms of the virus are still not yet targetted by meds.

M.

[worriedfriend]

Would someone tell me what a normal, or average ballpark figure is of CD4 for a person who doesn't have this disease and one that does have it? Is a 1000 or so the average on a healthy person who does or doesn't have this? Thanks so much!!

[milker]

T-cell Count: As HIV disease progresses, the T-cell count goes down from a normal count of 500-1500 cells in a cubic millimeter of blood (a drop, more or less) down to as low as zero. When the T-cell count goes below 200, there is an increased risk of opportunistic infections, and when the T-cell count drops below 50, the risk rises dramatically

http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/BloodTest_5030.shtml

Milker.

[natthai]

I have been wondering this as well. I have searched other webboards and this is the first thread I have seen discussing this issue.

Lab results:
I started at CD4:
621 (first test)
981 (6 weeks after)
1365 (current & set point)

My first theory:
After diagnosis I immediately began researching. I started reviewing all of the HIV studies at pubmed and NIH and began aggressively supplementing my diet with anti-oxidants and micro-nutrients. Basically maintaining a database of studies discussing disease progression and nutrition, adding, subtracting and adjusting dosages as I get new information.

I currently have three top candidates in mind as to which supplements have the greatest direct affect on CD4 and immunostimulation.

Other Theories:
1. Lifestyle: I took a sabbatical during acute infection and maintained a very low stress lifestyle, lots of sleep and time to research. I stopped clubbing/drinking etc. My boyfriend is a pharmacist and have been a big psychological support.

2. Diet: I live in Thailand and eat the native Thai diet which consists of NO processed foods (with additives and preservatives), a lot of fresh fruit, raw salads and coconuts (monolauric acid).

3. Deworming (Helminth–HIV Coinfection): The more research I am doing the more I am finding evidence that HIV is largely a Gastro-Intestinal disease. "The intestine is a  lymphocyte-rich site that undergoes severe depletion of memory CD4+ T-cells within days of  HIV infection."

A large meta-study looked at this issue:

All trials showed individual beneficial effects of helminth eradication on markers of HIV-1 disease progression (HIV-1 RNA and/or CD4 counts). When data from these trials were pooled, the analysis demonstrated significant benefit of deworming on both plasma HIV-1 RNA and CD4 counts.
--http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab006419.html

3. Genetics: As a child and adolescent I was an elite level athlete. I trained for up to 6 hours a day. I have a theory that the physical condition your body is in at the time of maturation (end of adolescence) plays a big role in your future health as an adult.

4. I would love to hear any other ideas people have as to high CD4 counts, especially if you can cite clinical studies or research which show significant increases in CD4.

[Nestor]

I currently have three top candidates in mind as to which supplements have the greatest direct affect on CD4 and immunostimulation.

May we ask which they are? 

[sharkdiver]

omg I thought what's his name was back.


please start a new thread.