Dating Men4Men

[Buff4evr]

Hi All,

I've been living with HIV/AIDS for a year.  I've been fortunate to physically recover from PCP and to get my life back together thanks to ADAP and other programs that have helped pay for my healthcare and day-to-day needs.  I had to leave a long term relationship (over 10 years) because of physical and mental abuse.  But since I've been single, I want a new relationship.  But it's been a long time since I was in the dating pool.  And the last time I dipped my toe in I was negative.  I'm trying to hold myself together, but I am scared about guys who are are happy I'm infected because they want to bareback.  Why is it that having the bug makes guys think safe sex  is off the table?  Aaarrghhh!!

Anyone have any advice about dating after their diagnosis?

Dave

[Pilot]

  I can't and would not try to speak for everyone concerning dating after becoming poz.  As for myself, I don't see much difference other than you have one more thing added to your resume to present to prospective boyfriends, life mates or whatever.   Without going into all kinds of psycho babble about guys wanting to bareback since your poz, its up to you if you want to practice safe sex in your future relationship or relationships.  The only advise I would even chance giving you is, DO NOT LOOK FOR ONE LIKE THE LAST ONE.   He was either the best fuck in the world and rich as hell for you to allow him to be physically and mentally abusive to you for ten years.  I am a firm believer that anyone who lays hands on another has to go to sleep sometime and they sell base ball bats at all kinds of stores.  Anyone, who stays around after getting abused by a boyfriend more than once has more problems than worrying about dating after becoming poz.

[Buckmark]

I'm not sure if your question is about dating, or about safer sex.  If it's about dating, I'm hardly an expert.  I found dating and meeting guys to be difficult before I was HIV+ (though I don't have much of a reference, because I became HIV+ at 25, just 3 years after coming out, and I'm 43 now).  So, to me, HIV doesn't make dating any more difficult, because it was difficult already.

That said, you say you are scared of guys who "who are are happy I'm infected because they want to bareback.  Why is it that having the bug makes guys think safe sex  is off the table?"  That's a question about safer sex.  Some people who are HIV+ choose only to have sex with others who are HIV+ ("serosorting"), and prefer not to use condoms.  Other HIV+ people choose to use condoms all the time.  People here with expound upon the virtues and drawback of both approaches.  There's no single correct answer.  But there's no reason to be scared of the former (or the latter). 

It's your body, and your decision -- you just have to take control and decide what is right for you.  I'm wondering if that is perhaps the real issue you are having, given that you remained in an abusive relationship for 10 years.  Understanding the reasons behind that might help you in these other areas too.

Regards,

Henry

[Buff4evr]

Wow!   Thanks for the replies thus far.

Dating is one of my issues.  So far I am lucky in that I have a really optimistic view about life which adds to what others perceive as my charisma.  I am also a great listener, empath and enjoy learning life lessons from other people.  In other words, I haven't had much trouble finding potential dates.  It's just that I am having difficulty with when to reveal my HIV status, feelings of walking around as a potentially toxic partner, and POZ guys who have greater issues:  drug/alcohol abuse, the need to control people, etc.

I've heard there are strains of HIV that meds can't treat very well.  I'm fortunate that I've responded well (few symptoms, improved CDC results) from my meds, but I hear it is possible to get the stronger bug if you bareback.  Besides, I'm tired of other STDs which can be prevented with condoms. 

I guess I'm just venting some anger about our gay male community.  I'm all about passion, but are we all truly informed or care to be informed?  I'm angry that my health care provider asks me whether I am having safe sex without discussing what that means to him or what the consequences are if I don't.  I'm starting to take charge of these issues myself, as it seems I am the only person who cares about me.

Thanks for letting me vent a little.

Dave

[Miss Philicia]

I'm angry that my health care provider asks me whether I am having safe sex without discussing what that means to him or what the consequences are if I don't. 

So why don't you ask him questions and have a discussion?

Other than that as far as the disclosure topic, I fail to see why you can't clearly state in an on line personal what you HIV status is.  If you make the choice not to go the route of the internet and meet guys in a bar or at a gay community center playing bingo then yes, you'll have to deal with disclosure issues.  It's really as big or as little issue as YOU choose to make it.  Your profile here on the forums neglects to mention where you live, but in many gay communities (NYC for instance) fully a quarter of the guys are HIV positive.  Hence this issue could feasibly be more simple than you are aware.

[Buff4evr]

Hi Philly 267,

I will be more proactive with my doctor in terms of asking questions going forward.  I certainly can't get inside his head and understand why there isn't a canned speech doctors give to newly-diagnosed people. 

As for internet dating, I haven't really done that.  I've published a few profiles, but wasn't impressed with the results.  Not that the guys weren't great...sometimes I didn't think I was good enough for them.  I do like the bar scene, so I guess I'll have to live with the disclosure issue.  And I live in Los Angeles, so I agree that being HIV+ is not new here.  It still feels like a badge of shame, though.

I guess I just have to get out of my own head games.   I'm grateful to feel and look healthy.  I'm also thankful for the friends I have who have listened to my anger, rants, raves, general complaints and all the love I have for them.   

[megasept]

Why is it that having the bug makes guys think safe sex  is off the table?  Aaarrghhh!!

Dave

Dave: What disease do you wish to protect yourself from? The (positive) barebackers you meet might not fear a super-virus. They might not think  there is a danger should they acquire a different strain of HIV (this is a defensible position given a UCSF study of freewheeling unrubbered LTNPs, though open for debate). A good lover probably won't avoid syphilis or gonorrhea with an infected partner because their mouths and genitalia will mix in different combinations and permutations. You use the term "safe" not "safer". All kinds of STDs are highly communicable through oral sex, and that includes the most "vanilla" form of transmission; kissing. For example, as a professional, a prostitute (sex worker sounds shamefully euphemistic to me) who doesn't kiss is wise to to get that rubber put on, and certainly not just for HIV.

One of the few good things about HIV is it's difficult to pass on. If you want totally "safe" sex it's frottage, licking anywhere but orifices, and fetishes. Not much else. 

So, what it is you wish to remain "safe" from, and the importance of this or that sex act for your emotional well-being are factors. Safe from "everything" sounds great, but for me it would mean celibacy; I've done my time with abstention.

    -megasept

[pozattitude]

I'm not sure if your question is about dating, or about safer sex.  If it's about dating, I'm hardly an expert.  I found dating and meeting guys to be difficult before I was HIV+ (though I don't have much of a reference, because I became HIV+ at 25, just 3 years after coming out, and I'm 43 now).  So, to me, HIV doesn't make dating any more difficult, because it was difficult already.

That said, you say you are scared of guys who "who are are happy I'm infected because they want to bareback.  Why is it that having the bug makes guys think safe sex is off the table?"  That's a question about safer sex.  Some people who are HIV+ choose only to have sex with others who are HIV+ ("serosorting"), and prefer not to use condoms.  Other HIV+ people choose to use condoms all the time.  People here with expound upon the virtues and drawback of both approaches.  There's no single correct answer.  But there's no reason to be scared of the former (or the latter). 

It's your body, and your decision -- you just have to take control and decide what is right for you.  I'm wondering if that is perhaps the real issue you are having, given that you remained in an abusive relationship for 10 years.  Understanding the reasons behind that might help you in these other areas too.

Regards,

Henry

Well said Henry, I couldn't agree more.
Having a meaningful and honest relationship is not easy for anyone, HIV or not.  In my case, I dated a lot more after finding out my status.
Like Henry I became infected when I was 24-25.  I didn't come out until I was 21-22.  The funny thing is that I knew I was queer way into my childhood, but because of my own hang ups and AIDS, I didn't come out until I left for college.
On top of this all, I grew up around queers (cousin, uncle and a great aunt are all queer), so it was not a fear of rejection from my family... I was afraid to come out really because of HIV...so once I tested positive, I had nothing to be afraid and I have to say I have never had a problem dating since I tested positive.
I have found that honest always wins.  Whenever I meet someone and go on a date, I disclose my HIV status within the first 15 minutes.. I don't want to waist my time nor his.  I have friends who have gone on dates and they like the guy/girl so they don't disclose their status....so they go on a second and third date, by the time they decide to disclose, they have already become attached to the guy/girl, and if they are rejected they really feel hurt.  So I don't let myself get involved with anyone that doesn't know my status.
I also preffer to date only poz men, but this is my choice.  I am not saying I would never give a negative man the time of day, but I am a little discriminating when it comes to this. I rather be with people that are on the same boat as I am.

Rich

[dixieman]

Question? Date or Trick? do you immediately have sex with someone on the first date? I'm just wondering... here in montgomery, AL its rather difficult to find another person who is hiv+ and disclose oneslef also to go out on a date. Also I've found the people in this general area rather call it a date to just have sex... I guess its that way all over the board in most places... so I've tried the poz personals sites to see and or meet possible people to go on a date to find theres not much of a difference? I've traveled to Atlanta, Florida... flew one person in from New York City and so on... to find out theres a reason why??? their just looking for another notch on their bed post... reading peoples ad's online has taught me to cross reference... I've checked out manhunt to see how a few individuals who state their looking for more than a one night stand on poz personals to see they have another ad online on man-hunt, men4sexnow etc... their just looking to get off which is ok by me but, why state that their looking for more? Are they just trying to fool themselves? Well I willbe attending a poz AL gathering in Bham and I'll see how that goes... the last time I went to another was down in Florida a few years back only to find most of the (boys) and I emphasize boys instead of men... because, a real man generally is not into playing games... Its very difficult to find people who are sincere and honest with themselves as well as with others... Wish me luck!

[Florida69]

dixie, I hope you find what you are after.  I know how hard it is to even meet meaningful people, so I hope it works out for you.. D

[AustinWesley]

  I can't and would not try to speak for everyone concerning dating after becoming poz.  As for myself, I don't see much difference other than you have one more thing added to your resume to present to prospective boyfriends, life mates or whatever.   Without going into all kinds of psycho babble about guys wanting to bareback since your poz, its up to you if you want to practice safe sex in your future relationship or relationships.  The only advise I would even chance giving you is, DO NOT LOOK FOR ONE LIKE THE LAST ONE.   He was either the best fuck in the world and rich as hell for you to allow him to be physically and mentally abusive to you for ten years.  I am a firm believer that anyone who lays hands on another has to go to sleep sometime and they sell base ball bats at all kinds of stores.  Anyone, who stays around after getting abused by a boyfriend more than once has more problems than worrying about dating after becoming poz.

LOL, this was hilarious!   

I have to agree that for me dating is pretty much the same.   Although when I was first diagnosed I ended up in a relationship with a total control freak asshole cause I think my self esteem was shot at the time.   He was a negative partner although I have a theory he seeks out positive guys cause he thinks he can control em.   Ugh, I'm so embarrassed now to even discuss him.   We played house for a bit, but that's when things really got ugly.   I threw him and his stupid dog out and good riddance.

I met a string of other losers shortly after, but I think I'm improving finally ; )

Seriously though when I was first diagnosed I thought my dating life was over and swore I'd never sleep with anyone again.   Obviously, that couldn't be further from the truth now ; )

As far as the unsafe sex issue goes I don't want to start up a big controversy with that, but the truth is most partners make up their own rules on what they're gona do or not do with or without protection.   Clearly, some things are safer than others, but you definitely don't want another STD to go along with HIV if you can avoid it so that'd be my biggest concern.

Glad you are out of that awful relationship and jump back on the horse and buy a bat like Pilot said ; )

Wesley

[dixieman]

florida69 thank you for the message.. I'll let yall know how it goes...

[Bucko]

Disclosure is like eating escargots. The first time you do it, you wonder what the hell's in your mouth, but subsequent attempts are easier to swallow.

There is no secret to discussing HIV with others, whether it's your doctor or a potential partner. You need to be honest, like Ricardo says, and straight to the point. The person you're discussing it with will take his/her cues from you. If you are uncomfortable or unsure, this attitude will bleed into the discussion and make everything much more difficult. Open, upfront and ruthlessly straightforward is the only approach to keeping the dialog real. If you feel shame, it's easier for someone to pin shame on you, which as you know is one of the hallmarks of abusive, controlling relationships.

Disclosure in bars is just another facet of the old game of negotiating that's been going on since before there were gay bars. Top, bottom or versatile? Poz, neg or don't know? Raw, protected, just oral, just JO? My place or yours? The flow can (and eventually should/will) be as simple as that with practice and confidence. Personally I prefer arranging my hook-ups online but have no issues with doing it face-to-face.

I'm also one of those barebackers you've run into so often. It would take an hour to discuss how and why I've arrived at my limits (and I'm not sure you're interested), but I do practice strict serosorting and have rediscovered pleasures in sex I presumed lost forever in 1984. I don't advocate for anything but my own needs and would never suggest that the only course to sexual satisfaction is by following my path (indeed, you might well find my practices abhorrent on many levels). But I am resolute in insisting that you explore your sexuality as fully as possible within the proscribed limits you negotiate with yourself and others.

Good luck-
Brent
(Who is confident that he knows what's best for himself)

[Buff4evr]

I'll try this again...I tried to write something and hit an unfriendly key that wiped it all away (I think). 

Thanks to all who have offered advice, comments, and perhaps criticism.  I am grateful for this forum because it helps me to gather some of my thoughts and feel there are others out there who know where I am coming from.

Recently I became interested in a guy.  When we met we talked for hours. It became apparent that we were attracted to each other, so we talked about sex:  what turns us on, off, top, bottom, etc.  But we didn't go to HIV status.  My gut tells me he is positive (because I sense from our conversation we both enjoy somewhat kinky sex and we've been "around the block").  Anyway, after another meeting and several phone conversations, he spent the night at my house.  I sucked his dick several times with no reciprocation, but he offered to let me fuck his thighs (so either he has a shitty ass, or we were practicing really safe sex).  For the record, I am versatile, so I would have been perfectly happy if he fucked me, but no offer was forthcoming. 

So I ended up feeling frustrated.  Not so much because of the bland sex, but because I think the real elephant in the room was my avoidance of the HIV status issue (and perhaps his avoidance, as well). 

I appreciate the escargot comment.  I'm new to the game, so I know it will take me a little while to get used to my new identity as an HIV positive person.  I am certain one day I will feel very comfortable about telling a potential mate in the first fifteen minutes of our meeting.  Somehow I will find a way to say it so that the person won't think I want to go to bed with him, or that I want him to think about going to bed with me.  I want the disclosure to be as non-chalant as my gay identity.  But I also remember how difficult it was to tell people I am gay many years ago. 

In a way, I was thankful that my diagnosis was concurrent with my admittance into the hospital for PCP.  It's hard to hide a hospital visit, the loss of nearly 40 pounds on a 185 lb frame, and the slow recovery from family and friends.  Then, HIV was almost as apparent as being black or white.  But now that my appearance and health have improved, my HIV status has become nearly invisible.  Yet it is the most visible, dynamic and illusive part of me.  The only times my HIV status has been visible have been when I've traveled and asked my hosts if I could place my Norvir in their refrigerator.  In many ways I am grateful for those moments because it gave me a non-sexual way to disclose.  But the dating game is so different.

I have more thoughts on this topic.  I look forward to sharing them in the future.

Best,
Dave

[slimbimale]

I tell everyone up front ..if they run ..they wasn't worth my time And I am use to them running ..Because I am up front about being BI and that scares them as much as living with AIDS ..I always say " If the BI thing doesn't scare them , The AIDS will " ....lol..but I have met a few that it doesn't bother ..And Most people with Thank you for being honest and up front about it ..even if they don't date you . Good luck ..

[GoodGuySea]

Disclosure is like eating escargots. The first time you do it, you wonder what the hell's in your mouth, but subsequent attempts are easier to swallow.

Escargots are delicious!  What's wrong with escargot?

But joking aside, dating is hard anyway.  I haven't really restarted my dating life after I find out being positive about 4 months ago.  But from the reactions when I told my now ex and another couple of guys that I fooled around over the years, no one can really predict how another people will react.

Most of the guys are quite supportive, although one of them just prompted stopped all communication.  My ex is actually a really sweet guy, but he just can't handle the HIV thing.  We still see each other sometimes nowadays, and when we met, there are hugs and kisses and it felt just about same.  But he is seeing someone else as well so that confused me a heck lot.  I suppose there are still feeling left but we both know the relationship is over.

I suppose we all have to go back to the dating pool for sex or mate some day.  Good luck to us all.

[Buff4evr]

I wonder if there's more to it when you disclose up front and the person runs for the hills.  Maybe, for the runner, knowing your status was "TMI" (too much information) especially if he/she was just getting to know you.  Do we, as HIV positive people, do a disservice to other HIV positive people when we disclose too quickly?  My point is when negative/uncertain status people get to know us, find out our HIV status, and then realize we aren't as toxic as they fear; perhaps we have enlightened them.  The movement for LGBT rights advanced exponentially when LGBT people came out, and mostly because we came out to friends and family that knew us and already loved us and learned to support our sexuality.  

Based on that analysis, coming out as HIV positive to friends and family seems like a slam dunk.  And if I get rejected by them, I am happy to know I have a support group that will help me grieve the loss and move on.  

However, with new people in my life (e.g. people I want to date), I am still uncertain about when to disclose.  I have "run for the hills" for reasons other than HIV status.  I agree it is easier for guys to use poz dating websites.  But I'm pretty social and tend to meet potential mates at public events.  

Dave

[DanielMark]

However, with new people in my life (e.g. people I want to date), I am still uncertain about when to disclose.  I have "run for the hills" for reasons other than HIV status.  I agree it is easier for guys to use poz dating websites.  But I'm pretty social and tend to meet potential mates at public events.

Hi Dave and welcome,

I can only go by my own dating experience, which is that I have always disclosed if it looked like things were going to get intimate at some point. Of course, that wasn’t the first thing out of my mouth. LOL I did so with my ex of ten years and also my current boyfriend of three years. My boyfriend at first said he couldn't "handle" it, but before long he came sniffing around again (after educating himself I later learned).

Between those two,  I dated a few guys, some who could accept me being + and some who could not. Such is life.

I say, go with your gut feelings about people and never deceive them and all will be as it’s meant to be.

Daniel

[LACboi]

Hi Buff4evr, here are a couple of sites you might want to look at

Take care of yourself

http://personals.poz.com/

http://www.aidschat.org/download.htm

[Buff4evr]

Daniel...thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I've found following my gut to be pretty effective.  It's encouraging to hear one of your boyfriends actually educated himself and came back to you.

LACBoi...thanks for the websites.  It's always nice to have an alternative arsenal if meeting people in public continues to be frustrating.

I'm attending a seminar by The Life Group LA this weekend (http://thelifegroupla.org), so I will have plenty of opportunities to vent and learn from other positive people.

Dave

 

[komnaes]

Hi Buff4evr, here are a couple of sites you might want to look at

Take care of yourself

http://personals.poz.com/

http://www.aidschat.org/download.htm

No luck for me though. I searched the two supposedly largest dating sites for us and I found like, 5?, profiles from my city. No photo and they either have not been active for months or look rather dodgy. And the emails I got so far (3) are much, er, should I say, very mature white gentlemen, mostly from New York, who seem very keen on dating Asians, despite the fact that I have stated in my profile that I prefer to date people of my own race.

Right now my sex drive is still close to zero but I suppose unless my doctor starts putting me on testosterone or something I probably won't be spending any time even thinking about dating.

Shaun

[Buff4evr]

Hi Shaun,

Only 5 profiles in Hong Kong?  I guess HK folks must have some real disclosure issues.  Or maybe this is a business opportunity to start your own personals website for HK Asians? 

When I started seeing a HIV doctor after my stay in the hospital with PCP, he asked me when was the last time I had an erection.  After being sick, the last thing I was concerned about was my dick.  But after a moment of thought I realized it had been weeks since I had an erection.  I've been using testosterone (AndroGel, testosterone gel, 1%) ever since.  I haven't tried Cialis or Viagra, but I'm doing okay without it so far.  One poz guy I dated uses Viagra and his bedroom skills are quite competent!

Dave

[Miss Philicia]

And the emails I got so far (3) are much, er, should I say, very mature white gentlemen, mostly from New York, who seem very keen on dating Asians, despite the fact that I have stated in my profile that I prefer to date people of my own race.

::sheds tear for milker::

[milker]

::sheds tear for milker::

LOL that's not me, I swear !

[Miss Philicia]

LOL that's not me, I swear !

wut... does Jewish qualify for Asian now?  I didn't get that memo.

[pozattitude]

wut... does Jewish qualify for Asian now?  I didn't get that memo.

I think he meant the much mature New York gentleman part 

[Miss Philicia]

I think he meant the much mature New York gentleman part 

He's mature, more than you think.  Trust.

[milker]

For some reason I missed this thread before. There must be something that bars me from reading disclosure posts 

Milker.

[Buff4evr]

Seeing I'm new here and haven't posted in excess of 500 times...What is this discussion about the "Milker" about?  I suspect it is slightly on topic, but not readily understandable by novices like me.  Komnaes?  Philly 267?  Pozattitude?

Dave

[komnaes]

Seeing I'm new here and haven't posted in excess of 500 times...What is this discussion about the "Milker" about?  I suspect it is slightly on topic, but not readily understandable by novices like me.  Komnaes?  Philly 267?  Pozattitude?

Dave

I am also new Dave. You will find the "groove" here soon, not that I have found it but it's been a fun process so far.

Back to your question, yeah, very few profiles from Asia in poz.com, etc. I chatted with a guy recently, an American Chinese from Chicago who's + and now working in Hong Kong, told me for months he hasn't found a single person who is or will admit for being + on other "normal" (sex-)dating websites. I did a quick search on a large mainly Asian-4-Asian site called Fridae, and out of thousands of profiles from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, etc I found only like 50 active profiles of + guys; but when I contacted some of them, 4 out of 5 told me it was a "mistake" in their replies. So disclosure is a real issue here.

If it goes on like this I probably would start cruising people in the HIV clinic waiting room soon!

[milker]

For some reason I missed this thread before. There must be something that bars me from reading disclosure posts 

Milker.

of my 3900 posts there were about 3000 related to disclosure, others would say

[DanielMark]

Daniel...thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I've found following my gut to be pretty effective.  It's encouraging to hear one of your boyfriends actually educated himself and came back to you.

Education is the only cure for fear, Dave.

Wishing you all the best in your search for a suitable match!

Daniel

[Buff4evr]

Shaun.
You make me laugh!  The HIV clinic I go to is DEFINITELY cruisey.  Sometimes makes the wait worthwhile.  Although I haven't practiced any pick up lines there yet.  I think even the clinic was a coming out experience, because I've seen a few guys I know in the waiting room.  And I had no idea they were positive.

Milker,
I guess I'll just have to read a few of your threads.  3000 posts on disclosure should keep me busy for awhile.

I went out for drinks and dinner the other night with a casual acquaintance.  He's a gay man, 35, and a lawyer.  We talked about our growing up, coming out, going to law school (I don't practice, though), our families, our past relationships, etc.  But we (especially me) didn't bring up HIV.  I don't expect to date him or even consider him a fuckbuddy.  Part of me wanted to disclose, but I didn't. 

The part of me that wanted to disclose would have told him how being hospitalized and getting my diagnosis forced me to clear out a lot of shit in my life and I am so much happier as a result. 

I think that last statement will probably be my "elevator speech."  (The intro line you give to someone you meet in an elevator and know you only have until he gets off on his floor to tell him pertinent details).  It's a brief statement that tells people my HIV status and something about how I feel about it.   

[Bucko]

I went out for drinks and dinner the other night with a casual acquaintance.  He's a gay man, 35, and a lawyer.  We talked about our growing up, coming out, going to law school (I don't practice, though), our families, our past relationships, etc.  But we (especially me) didn't bring up HIV.  I don't expect to date him or even consider him a fuckbuddy.  Part of me wanted to disclose, but I didn't. 

The part of me that wanted to disclose would have told him how being hospitalized and getting my diagnosis forced me to clear out a lot of shit in my life and I am so much happier as a result. 

I think that last statement will probably be my "elevator speech."  (The intro line you give to someone you meet in an elevator and know you only have until he gets off on his floor to tell him pertinent details).  It's a brief statement that tells people my HIV status and something about how I feel about it.   

Buffie-
I really think you're intellectualizing this too much, which, though understandable, is preventing you from feeling comfortable about disclosing.

Discussions regarding how you feel about HIV and the impact it's made in your life may or may not be an appropriate ice-breaker, depending on the context of the discussion. But it seems to place a really high burden on the person you're disclosing to and could be a recipe for disappointment.

You may have stated it elsewhere and I've just missed it, but is therapy/mental health care a part of your over-all wellness strategy? HIV brings up a welter of feelings, most of which can really benefit from a good relationship with a competent therapist.

Take care-
Brent
(Who has spent many productive hours on the couch)

[Buff4evr]

Hi Brent,

LOL, yes I am seeing a competent therapist.  Kind of you to say I may be intellectualizing too much!  You are probably right.   

Besides the people here, my therapist, some of my friends, and the people at the Poz Life Seminar I attended today, the most consistent message I've heard is disclose what I'm comfortable in disclosing.  (Maybe your point is just do it if it feels right, but just stop over-thinking it.)  I may be setting myself up for disappointment, but if the disappointment leads me to being more cautious about disclosure, then so be it. 

I told a guy I'm interested in that I was attending the Poz Life Seminar as an explanation as to why I couldn't see him when he was available.  He didn't freak out.  I felt better about saying it.  It wasn't a "Hi, I've got HIV" disclosure, but it gave him some information I want him to know if we ever become intimate.

My most awkward moment was picking up a guy at a bar and bringing him home.  He was wearing a condom and I had my legs in the air.  Just before he stuck it in, I told him I am positive.  LOL!  I was lucky enough to be plowed anyway. 

It still bothers me that I'm the one disclosing and the two guys in this message never said a word about their status.  Maybe that's part of my "disappoinment."

I apologize if I seem like a dog with a chew toy on this topic.  I am grateful for the opportunity to collect my thoughts and present them somewhat coherently here.

Dave

[Bucko]

Dave-

I'm sorry I wasn't clearer in my previous posts. I sometimes need to keep my point closer in my thoughts when I write or else I'm off in a whirlwind of clever syntax and obscure vocabulary.

What I meant to say is that it is not the burden of a casual playmate to understand how HIV has effected your thinking and philosophy on life. The only  thing this person needs to know is that you are poz and that it figures into how you qualify yourself, like being a bottom.

Grand plans and philosophical debates are wonderful conversations to have, but are counter-productive to setting a sexy atmosphere. Save the "Big Picture Overview" for friends, relatives and your therapist where it's appropriate. Concentrate on getting hot and bothered with the playmate, where disclosure can/should be germane to the topic at hand and allow you to relax and enjoy.

Usually if someone nods and acknowledges you when you disclose without sharing his own status it means he's poz as well. At the very least it means that the subject is irrelevant to him. At any rate, meeting a neg at something called a Poz Life Seminar sounds somewhat like meeting a vegetarian at a butcher's conference.