How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?

[LM]

Sometimes it is our perspective that makes us think that others are jaded, distant, or uncaring --- even "dirty" --- when in fact, it may be our own issues or vision or perspective clouding our view..... many who may appear jaded, distant, or uncaring are actually empathetic, close to others, and understanding..... they have learned to live with this disease, with dignity, without shame, and with a heart and knowledge that knows that others can and should (for their own benefit and growth - as well as for the benefit of others who will follow in their path) do the same.

Yes, maybe some cold, uncaring people I've met are actually the most loving creatures on Earth and my vision was blurred. Or maybe, and this may come as a surprise, but maybe, HIV+ people are just like normal human beings, who handle grief in different ways. Some take it out on others. Others, however, overcome it and use it as their strength to be there for others. All I realized was that I would like to be in the second group, because any pain we may suffer is our own, for no one to understand, but so is everyone else's. And knowing pain should bring us closer, not farther away from others, regardless of their HIV status, their pain or their suffering. At least that's what I believe in.

[phildinftlaudy]

Yes, maybe some cold, uncaring people I've met are actually the most loving creatures on Earth and my vision was blurred. Or maybe, and this may come as a surprise, but maybe, HIV+ people are just like normal human beings, who handle grief in different ways. Some take it out on others. Others, however, overcome it and use it as their strength to be there for others. All I realized was that I would like to be in the second group, because any pain we may suffer is our own, for no one to understand, but so is everyone else's. And knowing pain should bring us closer, not farther away from others, regardless of their HIV status, their pain or their suffering. At least that's what I believe in.

Well, said - and I hope you remain in the second group (although, you said you "would like" to be in the second group" - so, I don't know if you are still working towards getting there)- and if you don't - that is okay too ----- as you said, we each have our way of dealing with HIV - or anything in life for that matter.  No matter what group a person is in, I try to do my best to be understanding, caring, and empathetic (not perfect at it but any way, shape, or means). 

Best book title I ever saw was "I'm not okay, You're not okay - but that's okay."

[Rev. Moon]

Well, said - and I hope you remain in the second group (although, you said you "would like" to be in the second group" - so, I don't know if you are still working towards getting there)- and if you don't - that is okay too

Colour me unsold.

[anniebc]

Colour me unsold.

Oh ye of little faith..

Aroha
Jan

[mecch]

Someone who has a character bound to become bitter, will find any reason to arrive there.

[spacebarsux]

Someone who has a character bound to become bitter, will find any reason to arrive there.

Not that being bitter or depressed (especially when it is directly caused by difficult circumstances) does anyone any good, but I don't think character judgments on the emotionally vulnerable serve any purpose either-other than perhaps giving a reason to those who are better predisposed in the face of adversity to feel better about themselves.  

And that to me is not just insensitive but also a little patronising, which is also a bit sad.

[Joe K]

Not that being bitter or depressed (especially when it is directly caused by difficult circumstances) does anyone any good, but I don't think character judgments on the emotionally vulnerable serve any purpose either-other than perhaps giving a reason to those who are better predisposed in the face of adversity to feel better about themselves.  

And that to me is not just insensitive but also a little patronising, which is also a bit sad.

I'm not sure that is what Mecch meant by his comment.  There will always be some people who choose to be bitter or resentful and identifying them as such is not as much a judgement but more of accurately defining how they choose to act.  When I was in Florida we had a number of HIV support groups and there seemed to be two distinct types of groups.  One would be like this forum, where most members were fairly reasonable about their infection and acted accordingly.  The other group would contain folks who believed their life was hell on earth and they became so bitter and angry that they drained the life from anyone who came near.  I'm not sure why, but it seems that some poz folks need their anger to somehow protect themselves, however I found them impossible to be around, because to believe them, everything in their life was awful and they are often inconsolable and after awhile you don't even want to try anymore.

Life is full of choices and if you choose to be angry and bitter than that is what you probably will become. Nobody can make you feel something that you refuse to feel or believe.

[spacebarsux]

Joe, I agree with you regarding the sort of negative personality that you describe...I just think that even with such people compassion, empathy, listening or whatever is correct approach and not casting judgment.

As an analogy (not a perfect one at all...but anyway)- I think it is grossly unfair to label people who commit suicide as 'cowards'. Only they know the pain they feel that leads them to take their own life.....and even though it might've been bitterness/depression that led to such an act, I just feel it is insensitive for other people to label them as cowards or bitter or whatever.....and it certainly doesn't help anyone in anyway, the way I see it.

Edited to add:- I also don't really think anyone makes a conscious choice to be bitter/depressed. I don't think anyone would make the choice to lead a life wallowing in misery...they just find it impossibly hard to be happy and strong given whatever circumstances and events...if at all they need support and sympathy....and least of all judgment that would make them feel worse.

[Joe K]

I think we may be comparing apples to oranges. My point about people being bitter, is that it is a choice that they make in how to conduct their life. I don't judge such people, rather I empathize with how awful they must think their lives are and how difficult it is to change that type of mindset. However, I also know how damaging such a mindset can be and describing how someone acts is not the same as judging why they act as they do.

Suicide, to me, is entirely different because I have been suicidal. Thoughts of suicide generally involve some type of mental illness, which can become uncontrollable and end in an actual suicide. I find that some people simply cannot understand how devastating mental illness can become and they attempt to find some logic as to why someone would take their own life. If you have never experienced severe mental illness, you cannot understand the dynamics involved, nor do you realize that "logic" really has no place in describing why someone commits suicide. And I believe that this lack of understanding is why some people label suicides as "cowardly", simply because they cannot fathom the feelings that lead one to become suicidal.

[LM]

I think we may be comparing apples to oranges. My point about people being bitter, is that it is a choice that they make in how to conduct their life. I don't judge such people, rather I empathize with how awful they must think their lives are and how difficult it is to change that type of mindset. However, I also know how damaging such a mindset can be and describing how someone acts is not the same as judging why they act as they do.

Perfect. Exactly that.

I believe some might have been ticked off by this because of the admission of sometimes not having the patience with other people's problems because they don't have HIV or something. I think this is normal: when we're not feeling well, it's hard to give a damn about others. Last week, when I was weak and with fever, all I wanted was to kick people out of my way on the street when they slowed me down. But these moments don't make anyone good or bad, they are just moments. The problem is taking that as an attitude in relation to life, adopting this kind of mindset. And then it doesn't do anyone any good. That's why I believe reflecting upon it is always good, because it's not hard to fall into the trap of having this mindset.

[mecch]

I'm not sure that is what Mecch meant by his comment.  There will always be some people who choose to be bitter or resentful and identifying them as such is not as much a judgement but more of accurately defining how they choose to act.  When I was in Florida we had a number of HIV support groups and there seemed to be two distinct types of groups.  One would be like this forum, where most members were fairly reasonable about their infection and acted accordingly.  The other group would contain folks who believed their life was hell on earth and they became so bitter and angry that they drained the life from anyone who came near.  I'm not sure why, but it seems that some poz folks need their anger to somehow protect themselves, however I found them impossible to be around, because to believe them, everything in their life was awful and they are often inconsolable and after awhile you don't even want to try anymore.

Life is full of choices and if you choose to be angry and bitter than that is what you probably will become. Nobody can make you feel something that you refuse to feel or believe.

Yes, Kill, thank you. I surely did not mean to condescend about bitterness.  And CERTAINLY never about depression.  And those are two different states of mind, by the way.

I was saying, I don't think an HIV+ person stereotyping some other HIV+ people as bitter is helpful.

I have a colleague who's gross husband brutally dumped her in a classic trade in for a younger new wife.  A lot changed in her life because of that. So many adjustments to make. First, a nervous breakdown. Then, making all the adjustments.  Problem is, she also became very bitter about a lot of things.  Its been difficult for so many of us to deal with the constant bitterness, now that the pain and depression have resolved and the event fades into the past, years ago. But the "bitter" character continues and bleeds into everything.  

I don't know much about how to over come bitterness but its an interesting subject.  I am not sure bitterness is always a choice, or only a choice. It might be some kind of coping mechanism gone awry. Or a destructive coping mechanism. 

[spacebarsux]

Yea...I'm not a psychologist or anything, but I really don't think bitterness is a choice-least of all a conscious choice. It probably has to do with inability to cope, to lift the cloud of pessimism and negativity (?).

In my first few months after my diagnosis when I was in excruciating pain and seethingly bitter, I certainly did not choose to be that way. I was just like that and nothing helped other than the passage of time. And yes, I did find remarks from people close to me such as 'snap out of this state', 'you are choosing to be depressed, people go through far worse things' etc etc as insensitive and a little condescending.

If some people stay like that for a much longer time....telling them they are choosing to be that way just makes no sense to me for it isn't accurate in the first place and also unhelpful.