Kissing with blood involved

[Afraid111]

Hey,

could you tell me if there was a risk?
In November I engaged in deep kissing with a guy. About 20 minutes later I licked over my lip and I tasted some blood. I didn't have any wounds on my lips or in my mouth at the time, so I assume, that it was not my own blood but his. Now I am afraid, that he was bleeding during our kiss. While kissing I didn't taste any blood, but both of us were chewing bubble gum. I am afraid that he was bleeding but I didn't taste any blood because of the gum I was chewing.
I also gave him a handjob. We didn't have any sex.
The guy I kissed slept with a woman of unknown status 3 months before our kiss and didn't use any protection. About 75 hours later (which I know is too late) he went on PeP. He lied to the doctor and told him, that the unprotected sex has happened 1 day before, that's why the doctor prescribed PeP to him although it was already too late. He tested negative by ELISA 6 days after finishing PeP (which is waaaay too early), but refused to get tested another time after that.
Now I am afraid that that he might be HIV-positive with a current high viral load in the millions.

Since that day I am living in constant fear, but I am afraid of getting tested because I am afraid of a positive result.
I've been reading a lot of posts on this forum in the last few days and in similar cases people were told that they didn't have any risk, but my anxiety is getting the best of me and of course I think that my case is absolutely different from any other cases that happened before.
I also have another question: Why is it a risk to perform cunnilingus on a woman who is currently on her period and is bleeding while there is no risk in kissing with blood involved? Where is the difference? I mean...blood is blood and to me it doesn't matter where it comes from.

Kind regards and thanks for answering me!

[Jim Allen]

The guy I kissed slept with a woman of unknown status 3 months before our kiss and didn't use any protection.

Irrelevant

About 75 hours later (which I know is too late) he went on PeP. He lied to the doctor and told him, that the unprotected sex has happened 1 day before, that's why the doctor prescribed PeP to him although it was already too late. He tested negative by ELISA 6 days after finishing PeP (which is waaaay too early), but refused to get tested another time after that.

Also irrelevant

In November I engaged in deep kissing with a guy. About 20 minutes later I licked over my lip and I tasted some blood. I didn't have any wounds on my lips or in my mouth at the time

So you kissed a guy, and 20 minutes later, you think you tasted blood but had no wounds.

I've been reading a lot of posts on this forum in the last few days and in similar cases people were told that they didn't have any risk

Perfect. You know the answer already. It's not an HIV risk.

Why is it a risk to perform cunnilingus on a woman who is currently on her period and is bleeding while there is no risk in kissing with blood involved? Where is the difference?

Well, the mouth and the vagina are different but it's generally not an HIV concern.

I removed your question about the other organization's claims based on a 1994 story.
Now, I don't represent them and therefore can't answer for them.

However, what I can say is this is generally misunderstood as it did not prove kissing was an HIV risk. When directly asked, the same organization has stated and admitted more recently that they have zero documented cases. Why they then hold onto outdated information/stories from before the HAART era, I don't know, but feel free to ask them instead of us.

[Jim Allen]

Move on with your life. Use condoms for any intercourse, consider PrEP as an additional layer of prevention, and as you are sexually active, get an STI & HIV screening yearly.

Here's what you need to know to reduce your HIV risks:
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse correctly and consistently, with no exceptions. Consider talking to your healthcare provider about PrEP as an additional layer of protection against HIV

Keep in mind that some sexual practices described as safe in terms of acquiring HIV still pose a risk for other easier-acquired STIs. So please do get tested at least yearly for STIs, including but not limited to HIV, and more frequently if condomless intercourse occurs.

Also, note that it is possible to have an STI and show no signs or symptoms; testing is the only way to know.

Kind regards

Jim

Please Note.
As a member of the "Do I have HIV" Forum, you are required to only post in this one thread no matter how long between visits or the subject matter. You can find this thread by going to your profile and selecting show own post, which will take you here. It helps us to help you when you keep all your thoughts or questions in one thread, and it helps other readers to follow the discussion. Any additional threads will be removed.

[Afraid111]

Thank you very much for answering me!

So it wouldn't make any difference if he was actually bleeding during our kiss and had a very, very high viral load? This would still be a no-risk-situation?
Is it recommended to go on PeP after kissing someone with a high viral load who was bleeding during the kiss? I'm feeling a bit irresponsable because I didn't reconsider PeP for this situation.
Could you also tell me which STDs are transmitted easily through kissing or mutual masturbation?

[Jim Allen]

I've already answered that the kiss situation you posted about here wasn't an HIV risk to you. I'm not sure why you are asking again, as the answer isn't going to change.

There was no HIV risk and no exposure; therefore, no PEP or testing is needed outside of standard yearly screening. Hence, I said:

Move on with your life. Use condoms for any intercourse, consider PrEP as an additional layer of prevention, and as you are sexually active, get an STI & HIV screening yearly.

Could you also tell me which STDs are transmitted easily through kissing or mutual masturbation?

Well, this is an HIV forum, not STIs, but in short, kissing; the risks include Herpes as this can spread through skin contact during viral shredding. Deep kissing could be a risk for Syphilis, Chlamydia and maybe a remote risk of Gonorrhea. I am sure there are a few more.

There is no need to panic or run out to test every time you kiss someone or jerk them off; just remember to get an STI screening yearly.

[Afraid111]

Thank you very much for answering.
I hope nobody here feels discriminated by my question. I am trying my best to accept that there wasn't any risk, but my anxiety is telling me otherwise. I always think that I'm sort of a medical sensation and the first person on earth who got infected this way. 
And I made the mistake to read so many stories on the internet which totally confused me. I also had fever 5 days after this incident and now, 7 weeks later, I found 2 swollen lymph nodes near my throat and now I'm totally freaking out and don't know how to calm down.
Anyways, thank you very much again for the service you are providing here, Jim and I wish you the best.

[Jim Allen]

You're welcome. There was no HIV risk.

My only additional comment would be that if these HIV & STI fears are a barrier or are becoming a barrier to your sex life, then consider talking to a psychiatrist. 

[Afraid111]

Hello,

unfortunately I'm back with another worry. 12 days ago I met the same guy, we kissed again and I gave him a handjob. We didn't have any sex. My problem is, that I had a wound on my thumb from scratching it. The wound wasn't bleeding but I pulled away a big peace of skin and you could see the new fresh skin underneath. The wound was also a bit wet. So a had a plaster on (I'm sorry, english is not my primary languge). After giving the guy a handjob some semen landed on my hand but I used a tissue to wipe it away. After that I wanted to put a new plaster on and I rubbed the old one off. Whilst doing that I touched the wound with my other fingers which had semen on it before. It burned.
Was there a risk?
I called my national aids-hotline today and the employee seemed to be a bit unsure. He asked when this incident happend and when I said that it happened almost 2 weeks ago he became quite and said "Oh, there are medications you can take within 72 hours to prevent an infection, but now it's too late."
Now I'm totally freaking out.
Could you please help me and tell me if there was a risk?

[Afraid111]

I am so afraid and I've been crying the whole day.

[Jim Allen]

Zero HIV risk.

Day-to-day cuts, wounds or skin issues are not a route for you to acquire HIV next to other barriers to your concern.

Reading the entire thread again, I would urge you to talk to your healthcare provider about PrEP. (Pre-exposure prophylaxis) this is a medication that will provide an additional layer of HIV prevention, not that you need it, but it will hopefully provide some peace of mind during any future sexual encounters, next, I would recommend you consider talking to a psychiatrist about sex and your emotional issues + irrational fears and lastly stop calling 1984...

[Jim Allen]

My only additional comment would be that if these HIV & STI fears are a barrier or are becoming a barrier to your sex life, then consider talking to a psychiatrist.

[Afraid111]

Thank you very much for answering me!

But the wound seemed to be deep...you could see the "meat" underneath. Is this still a no risk situation?

I didn't have sex in 4 years and I'm not planing to have sex anytime soon. Would you still recommend taking prep?

The guy from the aids-hotline really gave me anxiety.

[Afraid111]

And what are the other barriers you are talking about?
Thank you very much for answering.

[Jim Allen]

And what are the other barriers you are talking about?
Thank you very much for answering.

Lack of route and the concern ends there... also lack of viable exposure and a few other irrelevant things in this story.

But the wound seemed to be deep...you could see the "meat" underneath. Is this still a no risk situation?

Asked and answered. You did not mention bleeding to death and stitches, you mentioned a plaster, and functional enough to give a handjob, it's not an HIV concern.,

I didn't have sex in 4 years and I'm not planing to have sex anytime soon. Would you still recommend taking prep?

Yeah, as part of your mental health not for HIV prevention. Also, you have had sex ... sexual activity, includes kissing, touching genitals, and oral sex, its not only penetration and depending on how you view the topic, sexting, and sexual talk also is part of sexual activity.

You have been kissing people and giving them handjobs. You have had sex, prehaps sad sex, but it's still sex, end of the story. It's another reason to talk to a therapist, get on PrEP and after that have some good sex. Be happy, go do, you live only once.

[Jim Allen]

I wish you well but don't ask again about handjobs or kissing, as ill consider it excessive and issue a ban out of kindness.

Thank you!

[Afraid111]

I am sorry that I am bothering you with all of my questions, but I have no one to talk about this issue.

Of course you are right. Mutual masturbation is also sex. Not penetrative sex, but yes, you are right.

I will talk about prep with my doctor.

I have one last question: Is there some way to get infected with hiv sexually through anything else than unprotected vaginal/anal sex? I've read that oral sex is not a big concern. Are there any cases where people got infected sexually through anything else than anal/vagina or oral sex?
I know that it is possible to get hiv from sharing drug needles, but as you know I am worried about sexual encounters...
Have you seen anyone in this forum acquire hiv through any sexual contact besides unprotected penetrative or oral sex?

[Jim Allen]

In short, your adult risks of acquiring HIV are limited:

- Sex; Condomless intercourse & a minute (more theoretical than true) HIV risk when giving a blowjob.
- Sharing IV drug rigs (Syringes)
- Blood transfusions (Rare thanks to screening in most nations)

Have you seen anyone in this forum acquire hiv through any sexual contact besides unprotected penetrative or oral sex?

Short answer, No.

[Afraid111]

Thank you very much!

[Afraid111]

Hello Jim,

on the internet I've read that hiv becomes inactive (or dead?) when it comes into contact with air. Do you know how long this process takes?
I don't really understand why I would need a deep open wound to come into contact with infectious material to get infect. Does it really matter? When semen or blood is exposed to air and becomes inactive...why is it still a danger if this semen comes into contact with a deep, gaping wound?

[Jim Allen]

Hello Jim,

on the internet I've read that hiv becomes inactive (or dead?) when it comes into contact with air. Do you know how long this process takes?
I don't really understand why I would need a deep open wound to come into contact with infectious material to get infect. Does it really matter? When semen or blood is exposed to air and becomes inactive...why is it still a danger if this semen comes into contact with a deep, gaping wound?

You didn't have deep wounds, so it's a totally irrelevant question and a waste of time for you to be looking into... get back to me when you get into a knife fight and both of you are bleeding to half to death into each other's wounds and my answer would be that you have far bigger issues than HIV to worry about.

Semen in a wound on the body isn't a concern, I've never heard of anyone putting their penis inside someone's wound that requires urgent medical attention, I heard of the Dutch boy and his finger plugging a leak but penis would be a new one.

As for the exposure to air its also irrelevant as it's only one barrier and doesn't make any difference as you didn't even have a route to acquire HIV ...

Move on with your life, talk to a therapist. 28 day ban