How quickly can cd4 counts rise?

[GNYC09]

Hello, could somebody share insight into the speed with which your body produces CD4 cells? 
As you can see from my profile, my CD4 count grew by 150 between my 1st and 2nd months on meds.  Between my 2nd and 3rd meds, my CD4 count grew by only 32 points, which initially depressed me because I expected another jump of 100+ points.  I'm now glad that I saw any growth at all, but I want to manage my expectations so that next time around (in two weeks) I'm not disappointed again.  Since I'm new to this, I don't know if it is ok to hope for another 100+ point increase or to just hope for smaller increases over a longer period of time.  My doctor told me it could take up to 7 years before my CD4 count levels off--what is your experience with this.  Did you plateau after a certain number of years? 
Thanks. 

[bocker3]

I went from my low of 288 to 521 after 2 months on Atripla.  Since then (3+ yrs), I've gone up and done from quarter to quarter, generally in the 30-50 range (up and down, important to note) -- but with a couple of 100+ jumps and declines.  However the trend over time was for a steady increase.  My hightest was 879 about 6 months ago and I'm now at 794.

Everyone is different -- but do KNOW that you will have some decreases -- it's normal, so long as it's not always in that direction.

Mike

[Miss Philicia]

It's also not uncommon to begin treatment and get some decent rises, and then to reach a plateau.  The plateau can last for year too, meaning a long term trend of +/- 50-100 fluctuations.  Then it might exit that plateau area and begin to increase again.  That's what happened to me.  I had a couple plateaus, for example: I began slightly under 200, then plateaued around 300-400 for about 4 years, then plateaued at 400-500 for another 4 years, then suddenly went to 700 for a year, and now I've been over 1,000 for 2 years.

You need to think very long term here, or possibly so.  Kind of impossible to predict anything.  I know people that have been on treatment for over 15 years and have never gotten above 300.

[dapperden33]

I'm finding out that everyone is different.  I started out with a CD4 of 4, vl >500,000. After my first year on meds it plateaued at a CD4 of 70 and a vl of 3000. Now after 2 and a half years on meds my CD4 is at 120 and my VL is at 700.  I am completely adherent with taking my meds, Issentress, Truvada, Reyatez, and Novir. My doctor is perplexed by this but he just tells me that it's going the right direction but as slow as a turtle.  I get frustrated at times with my numbers, my doctor, and side effects.  Numbers are numbers.  But I feel, look, and live pretty good. 

[PozBrian]

But I feel, look, and live pretty good. 

Can't ask for much more than that! Well maybe one thing.

[elf]

It's very individual. My CD4 went from 353 (Semptember 08; tested+ and started taking meds right away) to 1189 (March 09)...As long as they're going up, there's no need to worry...I've been taking selenium since my diagnosis (400 micrograms per day)...maximum allowed dose, so it may have helped...Now I've reduced the dose to 300micrograms...

[Luke]

The thing is, a 'normal' CD4 count in a healthy man without HIV infection can be anywhere in a range of between 350 to 1200+ cells, and treatment isn't going to miraculously give you a CD4 count that is substantially higher than the healthy CD4 count you had before you became HIV-positive.

Combine that with the fact that the individual route to restoring immune function can vary so greatly and it really is best to keep a very open mind about how your numbers will move.

Progress is progress. Sometimes it is slow, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes we understand why, sometimes we don't.

Try not to compare your own progress to the progress that others make.

[randym431]

I look at it as stair steps. Up a step, then leveling out, up a step, then another leveling out.
Regardless, our immune systems are still very fragile. Seeing a huge gain, then a loss is, I believe, normal.
Its hard to expect too much. Sometimes while the cd4 figure stutters along, you might see more of
an improvement in the %, or vise versa.
EVeryone is different, that is the truth.

[GNYC09]

Thanks everyone. This is very helpful.

[twalker6181]

Hey

  I tested poz in july 2008. I have just been told by my doctor that i need to start meds and have started as of july 7 2009. I am still new at this and would like to kno haveing a cd4 count of 213 and a v.load of 16,000 is this good. Like I said im still trying to learn all the things i need to know. I have also started dating a guy that is neg and the thing is that the guy i got this from never told me he had this and we was protected at all times. with this being said Im worried that I may infect my BF even with protection and wanted to know wat i should do>

[elf]

Hi twalker, your CD4 number is not so good, but at least it's higher than 200.
(<200 is classified as AIDS)...
Your viral load is not high, so you will be undetectable very soon.
Being undetectable for 6 months and using condoms will protect your lover, but
unprotected oral sex should be avoided (at least for the time being when you have detectable viral load).
Take your medications on time and stay optimistic. Hugs and kisses.  

[Luke]

I know this is a deviation, but it is a real bugbear of mine:

I really do wish people would stop referring to a CD4 <200 as equating to AIDS; because it isn't a diagnostic stage. That part of the definition is purely there for arcane CDC disease reporting / classification purposes and used in the incorrect context only serves to needlessly stigmatise and scare the hell out of people.

By the very same definition, anyone who has ever had a CD4 count of less than 200 will always have AIDS until the day they die - irrespective of whether they have ever had symptoms, what their current CD4 cell count is or, we live in hope, they are cured - yet no-one seems to use this last part of the definition, so why do people insist on continuing to use the CD4 <200 part of the definition so indiscriminately and wholly out of context?

/rant

[Miss Philicia]

I have +1200 cd4 but I also have teh AIDS.  In the US this gets you to the front of the line at the soup kitchen, so let's not treat that benefit lightly.

[Luke]

I have +1200 cd4 but I also have teh AIDS.  In the US this gets you to the front of the line at the soup kitchen, so let's not treat that benefit lightly.

Good job you don't plan on moving to Europe then; because you'd be instantly cured