POZ Community Forums
Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits => Nutrition & HIV => Topic started by: JamieD on June 30, 2007, 01:43:56 pm
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Can anyone tell me anything about appetite stimulants? My doctor prescribed Marinol, but it really doesn't do very much and the slight benefit I get is not worth feeling zonked out or drowsy all the time.
My appetite is aweful. I sometimes go 20+ hours without eating. I only eat because I have to stay alive, but I eat nothing more then what I need. Like in the past 24 hours I have had 2 slices of bread, 1 slice of a very expensive organic cheddar cheese, and a glass of gingerale. It took so much out of me to force myself to eat the bread and cheese.
What can I talk to my doctor about? I am sure he could prescribe me some psychotropic medications, like antidepressants, that will make me gain weight but I think he wants to stay away from the off label weight gain stuff. I have researched this and I can't seem to find much aside from Marinol. I hope this isn't the best I have to hope for.
My appetite was poor before I found out I was positive, and got even poorer there after.
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If you are having depression issues and want one that makes you gain weight as opposed to losing (most SSRI's in my experience often suppress appetite some) I would recommend Remeron (Mirtazapine). Remeron helped me regain my appetite when I first went on it five years ago during a bad wasting period and helped me regain weight (along with testosterone supplementation). It also has a sedating effect which greatly helped with sleep, as I was having insomnia issues to, but the sedation is not so great that you will be hung over in the morning, just make sure and take the pill an hour before you wish to sleep.
Anyway, suggest it to your doctor and/or psychiatrist and see what they say.
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It would be nice if you would read the post first.
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Right, I didn't read it. ::rolls eyes::
Perhaps I didn't understand what you meant by "off label weight gain stuff." I apologize for having the reading comprehension level of a 3rd grader.
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I don't mean to seem like a catty-bitch or anything, but your answer seemed to have little to no relevance to what I was asking.
I am complaining about the drowsiness of Marinol and you suggest something that you say was "sedating". Do you not see the problem with that? I also said that I was sure that my doctor could prescribe me psychotropic medications to make me gain weight, but they wouldn't be appropriate. You response might as well have suggested I take insulin injections to gain weight and increase my appetite. It would have been equally as helpful and probably more relavant.
Again, I don't mean to sound catty. I'm not. I am simply pointing out your lack of thought into your posts.
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That's why I clarified that Remeron, if taken before bed, isn't really a negative in terms of sedation. You wake up without feeling hung over. All of this I thought I stated clearly in my post.
Yet you then go into Off Topic and label me a troll.
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What can I talk to my doctor about?
run a search on mepron or megace. they might not be right for you. your doctor will tell you
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?action=search
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run a search on mepron or megace. they might not be right for you. your doctor will tell you
Megace used by men is notorious for interrupting up our hormonal balance and adds nothing but fat in terms of weight gain. Marinol also seems an extreme measure in early infection--this isn't HIV wasting but a depressive mental state.
http://projinf.org/pip/20/pip20j.html (http://projinf.org/pip/20/pip20j.html)
Exercise, even as simple as pushing your butt away from the computer and going out for a 30-minute walk, will help stimulate your appetite; and the exposure to natural sunlight and other human beings may do wonders for your mood.
Cheers,
David
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Exercise, even as simple as pushing your butt away from the computer and going out for a 30-minute walk, will help stimulate your appetite; and the exposure to natural sunlight and other human beings may do wonders for your mood.
David
Sorry, never done any of the appetite stimulants, so I can't comment there. But I do agree with the above statement.
If you back off from the computer for one hour, and get on a bike, without pushing it, you can easily get a 10 mile bike ride in. I find this helpful and stimulating. Without pushing it, I do about 5 miles every 30 minutes. It's a great way to unwind, and do some good for your body. Walks are also very helpful.
Ray
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I do exercise. I am a swim instructor and pool manager, so I am always in the water.
Food just is very unappetising. I don't know how to explain it. Everything tastes bland. I don't even remember what I ate most of the time, because I barely even taste the food. I try to eat very strong tasting foods though. I am also just never hungry.
The doctor gave me Marinol because he said it would induce "the munchies", which it doesn't. Junk food is better then no food, but I really have no appetite for junk food either.
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Jamie,
Here's a couple brief articles to read, may give you some answers :
http://qa.hopkins-aids.org/forum/view_question.html?section_id=61&id=28232&category_id=98
http://qa.hopkins-aids.org/forum/view_question.html?section_id=61&category_id=101&id=28866
Ray
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hey Jamie,
Are you losing weight? or do you just eat very little, but still maintain your body weight?
If you are losing weight and have no appetite, maybe you could consider some liquid supplements that contain all the minerals etc that you need, plus some carbs and protein.
If you just have no appetite, but are not losing weight, I say enjoy it while you can. Especially, if it is just the way you are (you say you had no appetite before HIV).
Do you drink lots of coffee or sugary drinks? These may be suppressing your appetite.
Funny how Marinol, and pot itself, does not give everyone the munchies. I could eat a horse when stoned, but pot does nothing for my flatmates appetite. For some reason, the Benzo's do it for his appetite
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Jamie,
You need to get those calories and proteins in. Not eating is inviting lots of damage to your body, especially your digestive system and organs like your liver. I had no apetite but, took ensures to make sure I got part of the nutrition I needed. I was able to reverse a lot of damage. I hope your apetite troubles get better. I think it is just going to take forcing yourself to eat.
CA
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Hey buddy, I've heard from a lot of people that Oxandrin will give you an appetite.
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If you are getting all the exercise that you say and you still got the blahs, maybe it is as simple as a b12 and C suppliments? Just a thought.
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I do exercise. I am a swim instructor and pool manager, so I am always in the water.
Food just is very unappetising. I don't know how to explain it. Everything tastes bland. I don't even remember what I ate most of the time, because I barely even taste the food. I try to eat very strong tasting foods though. I am also just never hungry.
The doctor gave me Marinol because he said it would induce "the munchies", which it doesn't. Junk food is better then no food, but I really have no appetite for junk food either.
It sounds like you burn a lot of calories at work so you need to consume a lot of calories I think. Think back to when you were a kid, what made you happy? e.g. pizza, macaroni n cheese, etc. C'mon, who doesn't like that? Then build from there
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If everything taste so bland to you, drink a large glass of buttermilk when taking marinol. I take the 10mg pills and always have the munchies. Luckily, I won a contest that the top prize was a lifetime gift certificate for Furr's Cafeteria, All You Can Eat Buffet Style..Saturday's dinner is the best, I usually can eat 3 to 4 sirlion steaks..
Buttermilk is even better when you heat it up like coffee and sip it during the day.
Freshly squeezed yellow onion or cucumber juice is outstanding as well for nutrition. :P
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Dear Jamie,
Im not preaching but I grew up in a middle eastern family that was dedicated to food and everything revovled around it. It wasnt until I became positive in the 80's and started doing a drug called pentamadine that I really had to get creative to keep my appetite up because after doing the inhilant it made me feel like I was eating metal for a week after I took it. Ok, enough of my woes, here is what helped me through it. One I had to remind myself that my body is an engine and I need to keep eating for fuel for that engine to run. The second trick that did it, and this came from a very wise man in his 80's was drum roll .... and here it is.... sour/salty ..... Ok, whats sour/salty got to do with it? I remembered that in the mornings growing up we ate Feta Cheese and a sliced tomatoe and olives, not the black flavorless olives. Heavy greek spanish or calamata olives the olives got sprinkeled with a combo spice of zartar and sumac ( not poison ). This spice was tart. The spices combined with the olives and cheese made my mouth salivate from the tart, and the sour/salty got my stomach working. A good part of this was reminding myself I had to get past the eating for fuel part. Next when my taste buds were feeling blah and my stomach was upset I introduced tart and sour/salty to sort of wake them up and get them ready for food.
I hope that you can find your own sour/salty and tart to get your taste buds and stoamch awake, one thing that initially scared me was when I put sour/salty into my stomach it started churning and growing. That was a good thing cause its was telling me to feed it. I just had a friend who had a similar diet to yours and only really ate once a day. They just took his colon out last week. They have attributed much of what has happened to him to his poor diet. I read your posting and had to answer I hope that what I shared with you has helped.
Dawood
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Marinol didn't do jack for me either. My doc suggested Megace but then I couldn't take it because of my depo shot but maybe it will work for you. What helps me to eat is the good green but not everyone is a weedhead like me. Funny, as much as I smoke and eat, I have not gained any weight but has stayed at a steady 163. I hope you find something to stimulate your appetite. Good luck and keep us posted.
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I am on marinol also.IT does little to increase my appetite but i am maintianing my weight.I also have a medical marijuana card.Its legal here in Vermont.That has helped more than anything.I found that I don't need to get stoned to get hungry just a couple hits to get the appetite going and i am good to go.
Chris
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I've been on Marinol now for about 2yrs. I got used to the foggyness it causes after about a couple of months taking it, I like you have a problem with the taste of food as well. And on most days even with the marinol, i still have to force my self to eat. I drink the carnation instant breakfast (french vanilla ) in my morning coffee. it gives me the nutrition that i need with a jolt of caffine. i can't do the ensure :P my doctor says i need to weigh about 153 pounds (porky i know), but i would be happy if i could just make it to 130. I'm down to 119 to 124, which to me has been wait i weighed since i was 18. I don't understand why they want you to weigh more when your hiv positive. But i'm trying.
I eat smaller meals now, like 5-7 aday. anything is better than nothing.
Paulette
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Paulette, doctors worry about it because it can steamroll out of control with HIVers.
You may be interested in this decent article in the current issue of HIVplus magazine (sorry Poz, forgive me!) but changes in taste are often a simple side effects of meds, and can of course correct themselves when you change regimens.
http://www.hivplusmag.com/column.asp?id=1254&categoryid=1&issue_emi=current&jt=0
I battled all of this same crap starting around '99. I could never finish a plate of food, which was a huge change. After a year of that I suddenly, within a month seemingly (as I was going to the doctor every month so I know they my weight was being monitored) lost 20 lbs. Significant weight loss, as the article states, can be a precursor to more serious stuff.
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Thanks Philly I'll check that out , i went to the doctor the other day and he wasn't to happy that i lost six more pounds, i think it's stress related though. I've always been like that, my mom can't even look at me without crying she says I'm wasting away. I'm doing all i can to make my self eat, everyone is starting to notice the weight lost and my doc even increased the marinol and told me to pig out, that's just it i don't do junk food/ fried food/ fast food and barely any meat i get my protein from other stuff like beans/ peanutbutter,etc. thanks again for the advise.
doing all i can to gain weight.
Paulette
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Well if you do not like smoking pot (weed) try making canna butter... look it up online... great way to make pasteries... cakes etc... or even on toast... without all the clippings in your food... it stimulates your appetite and the best part gives one a buzz without the smoke!
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I lost my appetite and have nausea almost everyday since I started meds. I used to take Marinol but I also did not like the "stoned all day feeling", plus, when I was really sick and couldn't keep anything down, well...I couldn't keep the Marinol down either.
I smoke pot...it works for me very well. I toke a little before meals and it makes me hungry without the feeling stoned. It also works great for the Peripheral Neuropathy pain and a nice purple kush will take care of any insomnia if I need help sleeping.
I also make ganja butter for cooking, but I preffer to smoke it as eating it takes longer for it to work and I can't control how much medicine I consume when eating it.
Jamie, you said you didn't care much for food to begin with and that it has only gotten worse since HIV...maybe this has somewhat psychological too and anti depressants may be a good call for you. Check with your doctor.
Rich
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You may be interested in this decent article in the current issue of HIVplus magazine (sorry Poz, forgive me!) but changes in taste are often a simple side effects of meds, and can of course correct themselves when you change regimens.
http://www.hivplusmag.com/column.asp?id=1254&categoryid=1&issue_emi=current&jt=0
Good article. Speaking only for myself, so much in the article was true for me during my wasting period in early 2005. It was so scarey. I was eating and losing weight and completely bewildered.
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Cannabutter is great!
Hard to make now, since I live in an apartment, but works great in any recipe calling for butter.
I'll agree with Rich though, it's hard to gauge how (over) effective it is...takes a lot of trial and error. Fortunately neither the trial nor the error parts are too bad. ;)
John
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Jamie,
I would echo the comments of some of the other posters and recommend medical marijuana. It's legal here in California and can therefore be purchased safely. Not sure if you have that kind of access, but if you do, it's worth a try. Many people I know who have tried both Marinol and medical cannabis say that pot is far superior in terms of stimulating appetite. I know it works for me.
If you don't like to smoke, there are a number of options. You can buy something called a vaporizer, which allows you to inhale the vapors from the herb without actually smoking. Have a look at this site, for example, and you'll see what I mean: http://www.vapir.com/?gclid=CNXc0LLXwY8CFSosagodwmqOYg (http://www.vapir.com/?gclid=CNXc0LLXwY8CFSosagodwmqOYg)
In the alternative, as other posters have explained, you can make pot butter. I personally don't like the taste of it at all, so I won't use it. (I can't stomach biting into a brownie or cookie that tastes like a freshly mowed lawn.) Instead, I bake delicious cookies and muffins using kief or hashish. You simply melt part of the butter that your recipe calls for over a low flame and add the kief or hash to it and let it melt. You can then add this butter to your dough or batter. What you get is a cookie that tastes pretty much like a regular cookie but that gives you the munchies like crazy. If you eat one in the evening, you'll get hungry and then can eat a good meal before going to bed. Most of the effect will be gone by morning, so you won't feel too woozy or stoned when you wake up. If you do, I find that a nice strong cup of coffee does the trick. A good pot of tea should work as well.
Hope this helps. If you need further recipe advice, just ask. ;D
John
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Quick Question
This might sound dumb.
What is kief and hashish and where do you get it from the health food store?
Paulette
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Quick Question
This might sound dumb.
What is kief and hashish and where do you get it from the health food store?
Paulette
Kief, Kef, Keef or kif refers to the loose, dried resin glands (or trichomes) of cannabis which accumulate on containers, in grinders, or have been removed with a kiefing screen or sieve. It is sometimes erroneously called pollen or crystal. Kief can be smoked in a number of ways, including using smoking pipes, bongs, and vaporizers. Kief is a rare item among cannabis users, and is prized because of its extremely high THC content.
Hashish (from Arabic: حشيش ḥashīsh, lit. "grass"; also hash or black mans plant or many slang terms) is a preparation of cannabis composed of the compressed trichomes collected from the cannabis plant. It contains the same active ingredients as cannabis (but in higher concentrations than other parts of the plant), produces the same type of psychoactive effects and is mostly illegal in the same extent; see the main article Cannabis (drug). Hashish is often a solid or paste-like substance, of varying hardness and pliability, and will soften under heat. Its colour can vary from green, black, reddish brown, or most commonly light to dark brown. It is consumed in much the same way as cannabis buds, often being smoked in joints mixed with tobacco or cannabis buds, or in smoking pipes, or vapourized. It can also be eaten or used as an ingredient (baked into cookies or cakes, or added to stews and chocolate).
here in California some pot clubs will have those ready available but it is not as common or easy to find the kief. Personally I preffer hash over kief ;D
Rich
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Paulette,
As pozattitude's erudite explanation should make clear, you won't be seeing these items on the shelf of your local "health food store." :(
BTW, my local cannabis collective always has both kief and hash in stock. I've used both for baking, but I find kief far superior for cooking purposes. Baked into a cookie, it has virtually no discernible taste, so you'd think you were eating just a regular cookie. And it will definitely give you the munchies.
John
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Got it
thanks guys
I've been on the Marinol for over two years and my Id doc just keeps increasing the dosage. But sometimes it doesn't work and here in the deep south Ga.
we don't have places like they do in Cali. Well might be checking into moving to the west coast for this one ;D
Paulette
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I would reccomend you buy a vapourizer and some indica/sativa crossed weed. The vapourizer makes the weed healthier in that you aren't enhaling smoke but rather marijuana vapour. You still get all the medicinal benefits from the weed without causing unnecessary smoke damage to your lungs. (also, if you live in place where you need to be discreet about weed use, vapourized weed doesn't stink the place up like a joint would) By smoking a hybrid plant, you can get an energy boost from the herb while simultaneously increasing your appetite. Not all weed makes you dopey or tired. A 60:40 Sativa to Indica blend would probably be a good starting point approixmately 30 to 60 minutes before you'd like to eat.
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Pot or hash can probably be good but our stupid f'ing government still thinks it should be illegal (except in some states)...
Forgive me if I missed this as I went through the thread quickly but how is your testosterone level? What meds are you on (that may be interfering with your appetite?)
You might try Swedish Bitters for appetite stimulation too.
George M. Carter