POZ Community Forums

Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Peter Staley on July 18, 2006, 02:45:58 pm

Title: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Peter Staley on July 18, 2006, 02:45:58 pm: We've received many requests from forums members to consider opening a new forum for the newly diagnosed. We're open to the idea, but want to hear from everyone first. Please keep this discussion civil, and vote in the poll (it will be open for a week).

The poll will NOT decide things -- the forums' moderators will make the final decision, based on all the reasoned arguments put forward in this thread.

Thanks,

Peter
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: jkinatl2 on July 18, 2006, 02:56:46 pm: I think it's a terrific idea. Hopefully it won't be exclusionary, and input from people who have had HIV for a while would be welcome. Conversely, I would hope that newly infected people would still feel welcome in the other forums as well.

But it's a horn I have been blowing for years now at aidsmeds :). No, not THAT horn.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Lisa on July 18, 2006, 02:59:29 pm: Dear Peter,
while I applaud your willing ear, I would submit that any further dissection of the existing forums would be a dangerously slippery slope.
Such a forum would be an invitiaion to the frightened WW's of the site to utilize such a forum to justify their irrational belief of implied positive status, rather than going through the factual steps necessary.
I am of the belief that such a forum would be exponentially difficult to moderate, beyond what is currently in place for our limited moderators to peruse.
The newly diagnosed members are addressed with gentleness, and forethought.
For these reasons, I oppose a new forum of this type.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Teresa on July 18, 2006, 03:07:04 pm: As someone whos fairly new to HIV/Aids I have learned so much from the living with forum and the other forums as well.

But i wonder how many would go to the newly infected forum to start with and then move over to the living with forum.

Teresa
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: DingoBoi on July 18, 2006, 03:16:49 pm: i vote no.

I too see it as divisive in that if they start out in that forum, the are less likely to become integrated into the mainstream living with forum. Effectively it will separate the oldies and the newbies with a big large wall between them.

I also don't think people in a specific forum like that will receive as much support as they currently receive in the living with forum... the reason being is that everybody reads the living with forum.. but how many people actually read the OTHER forums (besides off topic). I can tell you I rarely look at nutrition or some of the others and I would be disinclined to look at a newbie forum. I suspect many others would not as well and therein lies the problem. People who won't go to that forum won't reply to provide support that they would have giving normally in the living with forum.

Example: When a newbie posts in living with... they get 20+ responses of welcome... actually making them feel damn welcome here. In a separate forum.. I see those welcomes dwindling to a trickle and fear the perception of this site will not be as welcoming.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: David_CA on July 18, 2006, 03:27:17 pm: Hi Peter,

Like Lisa, I think it's great that you're willing to consider adding a new forum. At one time, I would have thought it was a good idea. Now, I'm not so sure. I joined back in March. In my initial 'Introduction' post, many who I (affectionately) call "Old Timers" welcomed me. Tim (Moffie), Andy, Mark (aztecan), Ann, Dan (Oscar), Alan(bama), Rocky (RAB), Coen (bobik), and others are all well seasoned in this HIV/AIDS thing. I'm not sure that they would visit a 'newbies' forum much, and I think that I would have missed out on their replies if I'd posted in another forum. My initial post was one of the hardest I've ever posted, and I post to a lot of forums (only one dealing with HIV though). All the welcoming and supportive replies that I received meant a lot to me. I'd hate to think that by posting in a different forum I would have missed those. I think that the current forums pretty much divide things up well. I think I would suggest that those newly infected indicate something like "New to HIV" or something similar. Keep up the good work.

David
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: jkinatl2 on July 18, 2006, 03:28:28 pm: Lisa and Bailey both have valid points. However, I would like to hear some newly infected people's points of view.

And Dingo, you are spot on about venturing into that forum. I personally would be rather unlikely to do so - which would help my blood pressure sometimes, maybe.... but would do little to help educate newly infected people regarding the issues that only long-term survivors have had to face. This includes developing a skeptical nature regarding doctor-patient paradigms, the necessity for activism, the reality of the pandemic and it's relation from the macro to the micro.

But that all having been said, it WOULD be great to be able to discuss the reality of my 13-year disease without being worried that I am a downer, or that I am freaking out a newly infected person.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: J.R.E. on July 18, 2006, 03:38:25 pm: Hello Peter,

I also believe that this new forum would NOT be a good idea. I can see the, "am I infected" worry wells going over to the "newly infected" and asking, symptom questions. Just what they need !!

Since I have been here, the newly infected, I believe have received the guidance and support that they need from the "living with forum".

Just my thoughts-----Ray
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: newt on July 18, 2006, 03:44:48 pm: I voted no. I have a question about whether people would "graduate" and how and when, and if ever, and whether those not newly diagnosed get discounted as not part of the new boys n girls' frame and vice versa. Would newly diagnosed just be the class of this year who hang together? so what next, (next year?).

I value the diversity on one Living With forum. I imagine newly diagnosed people often read before joining and gain strength from seeing the mix of people new to the virus, and how they are supported, including support each other, and how other people long in the tooth with HIV survive and thrive. That was my lurking experience pre-joining. This is not to say the start to the journey isn't a special moment (that don;t sound quite right, but y'know what I's getting at) but separatism on this occasion, I am unconvinced.

Also, a newly diagnosed forum to my mind would call for someone (or three) to fend off the wrong-headed trying-it-on people who are not yet diagnosed but want something more than they get in the Am I Infected? forum (a minority, but there nonetheless), and perhaps someone to say the "right" things that people are supposed to need to hear, therefore it becomes a task not an exchange.

However, a Spanish-language forum, that would open up a whole new frontier.

As would one that came with a free tequila shot for each post :D

- matt

Now playing: Alicia Keys, Wild Horses
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Matty the Damned on July 18, 2006, 03:46:54 pm: Like Matt I vote no. For the same reasons. It gives me the irrits that I agree with the Dingo on this, but hell it's just the outcome not the substantive matter.

MtD
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: David_CA on July 18, 2006, 03:47:17 pm: Quote from: jkinatl2 on July 18, 2006, 03:28:28 pm
Lisa and Bailey both have valid points. However, I would like to hear some newly infected people's points of view.

And Dingo, you are spot on about venturing into that forum. I personally would be rather unlikely to do so - which would help my blood pressure sometimes, maybe.... but would do little to help educate newly infected people regarding the issues that only long-term survivors have had to face. This includes developing a skeptical nature regarding doctor-patient paradigms, the necessity for activism, the reality of the pandemic and it's relation from the macro to the micro.

But that all having been said, it WOULD be great to be able to discuss the reality of my 13-year disease without being worried that I am a downer, or that I am freaking out a newly infected person.

Jonathan,
Maybe newly diagnosed is a better term than newly infected. My view is from a fairly newly diagnosed person. I think you, and all the other Old Timers, are what brought a sense of reality to HIV for me. I'm afraid a 'Newly Diagnosed' forum would have freaked me out more; I have a feeling that it would be a bit like the "Am I Infected" with all the WW's. I've never liked that forum and it really bothers me to read those posts.

David
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: angelofdreams on July 18, 2006, 03:52:01 pm: while only joined recently i have found to be welcomed and helped in a tremendous way.
all on this forum have been fantastic.
i do see the reason behind having a room for newly infected people,
i only found out last month but would not know as much as i do now if i have been in a forum with people who are all rather new at this,
i am glad i was in the forum where most people have been for a longer time.

thanks for that guys, you have all made iot much easyer in the last few days

xxxxx
angel
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Lwood on July 18, 2006, 04:29:49 pm: Ya, its just tough Titty if youre newly infected aint it??
Isnt it thhe newly infected that need this place the MOST. in my case it was .
theres not much there for new members, other than a plunge into a boiling hottub of political flaming and Pityflaming, ..... ya thats just what you want to experience after getting the HIV bomb.
not some chatrooom politics....
Given the recent change in the atmosphere around here , I think its pretty apropriate, .
WHAts the complaint ??? That it will be a gateway for WW fakers and Hypo's OK , valid point the line will have to be drawn..
What is the argument ??? that its not worth the time // ( ILL Volunteer ) or that its just some fucked up rite of passage that anyone newly diagnosed has to go through a 24 48 72 hour crazy ass lockdown to earn their bones ?? I for one would be there for the newly diagnosed , online, on the phone, in person...
It Just Is OK ??
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: nvgreene on July 18, 2006, 04:49:08 pm: Though I am new to this forum, I hope that my thoughts are helpful.

I tested poz just over a year ago, I found that it was helpful to find people that were going through the same emotions etc that I was. I found that reading stories or postings written by newly infected was a great help.

I feel that a forum for the newly infected is a great idea, IF AND ONLY IF, the community as a whole still uses that board, posting, making the new people feel welcome, offer ideas, comments, suggestions, information and the like.

Not having that when I found out was a bit overwhelming, i tried to find out too much in a short time and got lost, instead of just dealing with the fact and then learning. I feel that we that have been through it may be able to offer insight, that doctors/social workers cannot.

Just my take on it
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Terry on July 18, 2006, 04:50:16 pm: Peter,

I think it’s a great idea. However I’d title it “OMG I finally Tested Positive”

With what’s been going on here I’d even suggest a separate straight and gay section and why stop there we could have black women section and white women section. Upper class section. Red state Blue state sections. Maybe even add a “I’m a top looking for a bottom section.” ROFLMAO! ::)

Seriously, I’ve witnessed so much diversity here, over the years another change won’t mean a dam. No matter how you try to separate the group your still going to have the whiners, jokesters, emotionally unstable and those that feel all high and mighty about their newly found home/family.

A good example of too much mix in the pot is the thread that Andy and I assume that all moderators felt necessary to lock because it “Got out of subject”

I took/read that thread very serious. I enjoyed the information and the exchange of opinions. (After all I came here years ago to learn something about living with this crap.) Ann had some very excellent points, personal to herself. Matty had some just as equal counter points in a rebuttal. Some of the members were sharing what they perceived to be important to them and then we had the usual childish comments from a few for attention. I even felt that the originator of that thread was kind of a troll, none the less, too many opinionated people of different backgrounds under one heading, so it was closed.

I want to add that that thread proved to me that prejudice (In all its ugly form.) is well and alive on the Internet as well as here at AIDSmeds.

It seems to me that some people on here only want to hear nice news as far as their diagnosis goes. Some want to make light of even being Newly infected with the HIV virus. Some newly diagnosed, that have yet to become ill don’t want to hear what’s ahead in their future (Those that are in Denial) I’ve noticed even those that said that they have stayed away because of all the serious conversations going on and they just didn’t want to hear it. This tells me you need a separate forum for those new to this scene.

Whatever works for the collective group is what I would like to see happen here. While you’re at it you could start a thread that’s titled “JUST THE COLD HARD FACT’S MAN!” No candy coated bull crap, just what does all this mean for me and what should I expect for a future?

Terry (who would handle that Horn if Jonathan passes it up.) You know who I mean? I’m going to hell for sure! :-*
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Jeff64 on July 18, 2006, 04:57:19 pm: I really don't see the need...seems better just to jump right in here once you find out you've got it.

Jeff :)
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: RAB on July 18, 2006, 05:05:50 pm: Peter:

Thank you for giving all of us the opportunity to express our opinions on this possibility.

I strongly support the idea of a new forum for the "Newly Diagnosed". I do so for the following 3 reasons:

(Note: I am expressing my feelings in #1, I am not making judgement,voicing criticism, or trying to minimize the feelings of anyone else.)

1. I have been living with HIV nearly half of my life. The reality of my life is far removed from someone who is newly diagnosed. Yet there have been times, MANY times frankly, where I have felt like the Living With forum has no place for me anymore. Outside of the obligatory Happy Birthday/Anniversary that is. The volume of traffic and threads gets to be overwhelming. It is difficult to swim through all of those threads just to find some topic that I can relate to on a personal level. (The thread title doesn't always give a clue either.) I respect and understand the emotional struggles someone who is newly diagnosed is going through, and when I feel so inclined I can offer that to the best of my ability. But I come here for my own needs too.

2. The concerns already expressed so thoughtfully by other members about the downsides are all very valid and deserve important consideration. Issues like WW's moving in, newly diagnosed not integrating into the Living With forum etc. However, I would suggest that if a change is made and these issues develop and can not be dealt with, well then we can always switch back. But speculating doesn't necessarily mean it is going to happen. We won't know how it works out unless we try.

3. Speaking of speculation (insert embarrassed grin) I'd submit it's possible that the Newly Diagnosed Forum might actually produce a situation where those posting will get a greater level of attention. With their questions getting mixed into the hopper of everything that goes on in the Living With forum, it's possible that some are getting overlooked, lost track of, whatever.

Again I thank you for allowing us to express our thoughts on this.

RAB
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Lisa on July 18, 2006, 05:47:56 pm: Excellent, and eloquently stated points Rab.
Not that I am swayed necessarily, but you have articulated another viewpoint quite well.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: DCGuy511 on July 18, 2006, 06:25:12 pm: I cheated a little and read through the thread before I voted. I ended up voting no for a few reasons.

I think that "experienced" HIVers would avoid the new forum and just stay in the Living section. I think that the interaction between the two is important.

When I first joined one of the first things I noticed was that here was a group of poz folks that are living. The welcome I received was very moving. Made me think, "Hmmm, maybe I'll be OK."

What is the definition of newly diagnosed? Do you have to move over to Living at some point?

Who answers the questions of the newly diagnosed? Other newly diagnosed?

Those are my 2 cents.

Steve
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Robert on July 18, 2006, 06:36:05 pm: I vote yes.

There has been such a deluge of new members lately that I just can't keep up anymore. When I joined, James (Opalcat) was one of the first to reply personally to me because he too had just been diagnosed, hospitalized with PCP and starting meds. Both of us were going through the same turmoil and anguish and everything was whirling around so fast that neither of us had no idea what was going on. We identifed with each other. We saved eac other.

It is so important to relate with someone who is also sharing your own personal hell. With so many new people joining now, you're likely to lose touch with that person. With a seperate forum perhaps it will be easier for the "newbies" to find someone.

And it's not like the "veterans" can't go there. If there is someone or something we can identify with and can contribute, well what would stop us? ANGELOFDREAMS is one of those newbies and he brought up a subject that other newbies wouldn't know anything about: Bengal kittens. I immediately referred him to our own in-house expert, Nancy.

Vote Yes on Proposition New Forum
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Lwood on July 18, 2006, 06:56:33 pm: The whole 'Just jump Right in "" aproach just doesnt cut it for alot of folks especially given some of the poisonous shit that has, been going down in the forums ... the Moderators keep mentioning, " what would a new member think after reading a thread like this " and I have to echo this.... How many newly diagnosed have wound up here at their wits end only to be turned off when the first impression of AIDSmeds is some pissing contest about things that were better left around the bong, than in the support room for people with a Chronic, Life Changing, stigmatic, Politically Incorrect, Underfunded, and well just generally kinda SHITTY disease....
DISEASE folks, not social club. or have I missed something ??
Once again, my vote is YES for an official welcoming forum, for those who have conclusively tested positive, ( ya that will be a bit of a problem) and are in the weird limbo that goes along with it.
Sadly, gone are the days of unlimited welcomes and open arms ( well, not if I have anything to say about it )
and I dont see anything wrong with an official, Unofficial Hug .
Ya, the potential for abuse is there, and may well be the overwhelming argument against the idea. I personally know of at least TWO members ( and yes we all know who you are ) that have hit on people new to this site like this was some HIV hookup scene and ultimately led to them leaving- permanently- after a brief intro...
Anyway, if properly handled, a welcoming forum would be great. kinda like having a sponsor.... I know that if I ever refered a friend here Id want to sit over their shoulder for a bit, untill they got a feel for the place... just my 2¢......
.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: AlanBama on July 18, 2006, 07:25:21 pm: I'm one of the ones who voted "either way is fine", because I really just didn't have a strong opinion about it.

After reading through this thread, I believe that I mostly agree with Lisa, Dingo and David, and don't think it would be a good idea.

I am concerned about the new folks not getting the proper welcomes (as stated so well in David's post above), and I can't imagine a lot of the veterans would have time to take on the task of reading through yet another forum, I know I don't have the time.

But hey, what do I know....I can't even decide what to have for dinner.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Peter Staley on July 18, 2006, 07:48:04 pm: I've edited the poll so that folks can change their vote if they want.

Peter
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Lisa on July 18, 2006, 07:51:09 pm: I respectifully remain positive of my aforementioned vote.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: livingpositively on July 18, 2006, 07:55:12 pm: As a newly infected (well, diagnosed anyway)...I would not advocate a "newly infected" forum. I have learned so much from the folks who have been fighting this fight for longer than me, whether 6 months longer, a year longer or 20 years longer. I would be equally afraid that it would be more of a "what the hell do we do now", "whoa is us" forum - rather than coming here to learn how to fight the fight, which is why, I think, newly infected people probably come here to begin with.

I think it's great that the thought was run across your disk, Peter. But, I think it could end up being counterproductive.

Shane

Edit: I would also submit that, even if the "veterans" go "visit" the "newbie" forum, I would take it as more unwelcoming to "graduate" to the "veteran" forum. Kind of like going from middle school to high school. Only here, you never get to be a senior. Haven't we all paid our admission to the same fair? While some have indeed been on the proverbial roller coaster many more times around, it's still the same fair.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: RAB on July 18, 2006, 07:58:24 pm: Quote from: Peter Staley on July 18, 2006, 07:48:04 pm
I've edited the poll so that folks can change their vote if they want.

Peter

It looks the same to me, what did you "edit"?

"EDIT" to say: Never mind, I understand now.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: DCGuy511 on July 18, 2006, 07:58:59 pm: I started my post before I read everything. I do understand RABs remarks about feeling negative or feeling like not posting. It has not happened to me here, but it did happen in my 'Newly Diagnosed' support group. I remember when I felt like- "gee, I'm tired of this new S&$#@, guess its time to graduate."

Steve
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Lwood on July 18, 2006, 09:00:40 pm: ok,
I dont think that anyone is suggesting a 'Newly Infected' forum as a place for anyone to hang out in for an extended period, more of an extended Q&A version of the Welcome Thread.

Im reminded of a story that a coWorker once related about coaching his sons little League team, one of the parents had an issue with Coach about some minor crap like having the kids uniform clean or the kid wanting to play his Gameboy during practice or something... the thrust of the argument was basicly "How dare you tell MY kid how to behave"...
Coachs response was quite simple and to the point, " If you Took care of these problems at home, I wouldnt have to deal with them in the Field "....
This translates more or less to the idea that if we ,as existing members, stepped up and welcomed new members there wouldnt need to be an official forum for them. By and large this is done with every new member that Ive ever seen, but theres always the potential for someone to fall through the cracks, especially given the new influx of new folks here lately.
Hey , what would it hurt ?? Why not a safe place for 'newbie questions ?' and somewhere to take that much needed DEEP BREATH, or twenty..??
just a thought...
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Life on July 18, 2006, 09:01:00 pm: From a Newbies point of VIEW..

We all, if lucky, get started in the AM I forum. And we learn about HIV and go through the process of getting tested etc. The fears alone in this section are mind-boggling. We then find out that we are positive. We are then THRUST into the "mainstream" of being diagnosed and graduating into the LIVING WITH forum. We get welcomed and that's all great, but what happens to those who aren't "picked up" and held, and just slip right off the board?? Sure some of the people who have responded were indeed picked up and posts were continually aimed at them. But have we not also lost some? I submit, the newly diagnosed are NOT LIVING they are BARELY SURVIVING and need moderated "closeness" just as Ann does in the fears section so well. They do not need to here the everyday banter that goes on in the LIVING WITH that can infact scare the crap out of someone who is uninformed and does not know what the next step is. Furthermore, this forum I feel would be a fantastic way to slip into the LIVING WITH forum once someone has become comfortable in his/her own skin. This is not to segregate, its to educate, to make the newly infected feel integrated with fellow newly infected. Don't think of this as isolation but more of just close knit with alot of "talking to". To allow a thread not to simply roll off the board as it can in LIVING. I speak from experience, when I came here 10 months ago, I was scared to post and did not fit in. I felt like an onlooker looking in on a community that has been around along time. I wanted what you had, but was really not hooking on anything. This forum I think would allow people to grow and be comfortable with others who are helping them (people with experience) and in time, they move into LIVING comfortably... I think what Peter is suggesting is a positive one for those newly positive and will give them the close support they so desperately need at this phase of their orientation into this world of ours, - - and theirs.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: manchesteruk on July 18, 2006, 09:31:12 pm: I voted no on this I think it's a form of segregation I think a living with forum is enough.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: ImagineFL on July 18, 2006, 09:38:49 pm: I voted no also... I won't explain why, as it has already been stated.

Both sides have good and bad points. I just think it overall would be better for them to use this forum. Its such a vast collection of thoughts, medical advise and support. Why reinvent the wheel? ;)

Patrick
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Terry on July 18, 2006, 10:50:39 pm: Quote from: Peter Staley on July 18, 2006, 07:48:04 pm
I've edited the poll so that folks can change their vote if they want.

Peter

You can not change nor can you stop what you started!

Just to add to what I have already said.

A hundred thousand years ago when I was first diagnosed as having AIDS I thought that I had taken matters into hand and did what the doctors told me to do. I also listened to my Ex, who had me, sign everything over into his name as beneficiary. [Never said I was smart]

I was not, at that time computer literate. Hell I flunked English 101in school.

One day I typed in HIV/AIDS on my computer.

AIDSmeds.com site popped up.

I needed to know about the medications that were out there at the time. I got the answers I needed from this site. There was this guy if my mind serves me correctly named DOC/dc or something like that. I hung on to every word he typed. He was so very informative of what was actually going on in the medicinal fight against AIDS.

Back then I don’t remember ever hearing of attacks being made or put downs being put on ANYONE.

Also back then I had not introduced myself. I still haven't to this day. (Dam it was hard enough for me to type with one finger) I just jumped in and said what I wanted to say and asked whomever I wanted to ask a question.

This forum has changed a great deal since then. And I’d have to add, for the better.

[Now this is off of the record.] [Because I’m my own person] I wouldn’t be alive today if it were not for the people here at AIDSmeds. If Joe had not discussed having depression, had Tim not talk of having a sex life. Had Jonathan not had confused the life right out of me or Matty or Anniebc or Lisa or Rab, Bucko or for that matter ALL of you that have allowed me to be ME. (I’d have been myself without you.) But it was and still is so much more fun running this gambit together.

Peter, do what needs doing. What you have done so far has made my life a whole lot easier! I thank you for that. I’m an old fuck that’s going to pass away from the infirmities of old age rather than from the debilities of a life suffered with the drugs to counter AIDS.

I also thank everyone who considers themselves a part of this forum for just being yourself, whether I or anyone else gives a rat’s ass!

Terry
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: David_CA on July 18, 2006, 11:03:27 pm: I was reading all the new replies to this post and remembered something that's important to me. When I reply to a post, I try to keep in mind who I'm 'talking' to. Many people don't put any details in their profile, sometimes I don't even know if I'm talking to a male of female. Often, it doesn't matter. Other times, my response will differ. By posting an introductory post in the "Living" forum, new members are assured, as much as possible, of maximum exposure. That's a good thing. Knowing something about the poster helps make it possible to reply with something meaningful. Generally, I put thought into what I type. I try to make it meaningful. If I'm lucky, it means something to the poster. If I'm really lucky, it means something to me, and I get something out of it, too. The key to this is having a feel for who I'm replying to; this starts with a posters first posts.

David
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Robert on July 18, 2006, 11:28:14 pm: This thread WOW, WOW and WOW (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=1935.0)is the perfect example why we need a new forum.

Purplerain was diagnosed less than 1 month ago. He came here looking for help.

He's never coming back.

VOTE YES ON PROPOSITION FOR NEW FORUM FOR NEWLY INFECTED
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: emeraldize on July 18, 2006, 11:39:02 pm: *
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: David_CA on July 18, 2006, 11:53:51 pm: Quote from: Robert on July 18, 2006, 11:28:14 pm
This thread WOW, WOW and WOW (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=1935.0)is the perfect example why we need a new forum.

Purplerain was diagnosed less than 1 month ago. He came here looking for help.

He's never coming back.

VOTE YES ON PROPOSITION FOR NEW FORUM FOR NEWLY INFECTED

Robert, that post about 'Pecking Order' was one of the first posts by a new member who's fairly newly infected. It most likely would have been posted in a "Newly Diagnosed" forum, had one been present. While it might not have had all the heated discussion from the 'seasoned veterans' of HIV, it would have still caused some turmoil.

David
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: jkinatl2 on July 19, 2006, 01:48:22 am: I do know this.

because of my efforts in the AM I INFECTED section, I have felt personally isolated from these forums. Because of my experiences with HIV and AIDS, I have not felt comfortable sharing my experiences with Gleevec and CML stuff here. Because of the inclusive nature of the forums, I have felt increasingly isolated.

I bring a lot of it on myself, by being a science guy on the AM I INFECTED forums. Is that the price people like myself are obligated to pay?

If so... what happens when I die?
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: lydgate on July 19, 2006, 03:57:34 am: I voted yes. Three points.

1. The shallow end/deep end analogy.

It could be said that there's a case for learning how to swim by being throw into the deep end of the pool and managing as best you can. But it can be scary, and you flounder, and all you want is firm ground again. Many people who are newly infected/diagnosed are in a bewildered state. Many of them also don't know very much about HIV. (I'm glad two recent members were candid enough to admit on another thread that they didn't know whether having a higher CD4 was good or bad, ditto for VL. Interestingly, both members voted no.) But I've tried to send two younger newly infected friends of mine to this site and both said that they were left a bit dazed, that they coudn't filter out the stuff that was relevant to them, at this point, from the background "noise" (for them). I prefer to learn how to swim -- in fact, did learn how to swim -- starting at the shallow end, with others as inexperienced and apprehensive as I for my first companions. Some people learn faster; they can shuck off those inflatable plastic floating things and move on. But education and comfort levels cannot (or should not) be rushed. I do not see this as segregation. That would happen if we divided forums into gay/straight, male/female, normatively white middle-class Anglo-American/everyone else etc. This is about the "newbies" having their own space for a conversation, exchanging notes, talking about first reactions, first steps etc. And as Jonathan pointed out, it hardly means that those who are active in other forums will be excluded from the newly infected/disgnosed forum -- in fact, they'll be necessary. And I stronly suspect that a person who uses the newly infected/diagnosed forum (if it's begun), and found it useful, will almost certainly want to check out other forums, and return to the "newbie" forum as a kind of mentor, from time to time.

2. The new kid in town.

There are, as I type, 1301 members of the Community Forums; yet the majority of posts are written, of course, by a few score highly active members. Since AidsMeds, in another incarnation, has been around for many years, several members have gotten to know each other in a personal, forum-unrelated, capacity; or are at least pretty familiar with addressing each other in this space. That is wonderful and inspiring. For the new kid, though, such familiarity (and the personal references and jocularity that comes with that) can seem like a kind of chumminess that's hard to penetrate. The people on these forums are incredibly warm and welcome; the deluge of newcomers is a sort of proof of that. But I think that several more newcomers would be more gregarious (as it were) if their first introductions took place a little removed from the main "action."

3. Segregation?

I submit that if even more newcomers join, and start with their life stories in Living With, a kind of chaos is going to follow. I'm just not sure that Living With is the place to have threads -- which are undeniably important, in fact crucial -- with twenty or more posts all of which say "Welcome!" or "Glad you found us!" or "Keep your chin up!" To adapt something another member said earlier: people who've lived with HIV for twenty years or more, who may have nearly died because of it, have different needs (very often), and different things to say, from someone just beginning to confront the impact of HIV on his or her life. If this is considered segregation -- after-all-don't-we-all-have-the-same-bug? -- then so be it; segregation is not innately a negative thing, it depends on the reasons behind it and the consequences of it. I prefer to think of the whole matter as having open and non-exclusive clubs.

I understand the resistance to balkanizing the forums. I suggested, about a month ago, that there might be a separate Mental Health Issues forum. The responses, and reading Living With more closely, convinced me that this was not necessary, that mental health stuff was well-assimiliated into the Living With forum. This issue seems to me to be different. There will be a moderation headache. And some time will be diverted to mentoring newcomers in a separate forum (if it is created). I just think it's worth it.

Jay
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: gerry on July 19, 2006, 04:59:45 am: I think this is a good time to revisit the issue and this time, I voted yes. The activity in Living With has increased very dramatically (which is good) that it takes only a couple of days for threads to be swept to the second page or further. I can also imagine that same activity can be overwhelming or intimidating to someone new. It might serve as a stepping stone to encourage initial postings in an area where tension might not generally run as high as it sometimes does in Living (which is a totally expected phenomenon in a group as diverse as the participants here). I think it would be a place where someone new can opt to start and not feel too overwhelmed, intimidated or lost. It might also become a place where other not-so-frequent posters might be inclined to post and participate more. The mods would have to figure out the "ground rules" for moving threads and such. As to when one "graduates," that would be up to the member, but I don't think that would be a big issue. I think it's worth a try and if it becomes apparent later that it's unnecessary, it can always be merged back with the "Living."
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Cherie on July 19, 2006, 08:09:49 am: Well Gerry said what i was going to write. So l voted yes.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: DingoBoi on July 19, 2006, 10:02:47 am: after reading some of other's thoughts on this, I've changed my mind to vote yes.

There are valid points and concerns on both sides.

However, my main reason for switching after more consideration is that, well... we are getting a bit crowded.

There is a higher influx of people here especially with all the poz links to aidsmeds.

lydgate summed it up quite well.

If the forums were how they were a year ago. I would clearly have voted no. Now.... the forums are a lot more active and perhaps this more special careful handling in a new forum would provide a feeling of not totally overwheming a new arrival.

If they can't filter through the stuff here starting out, the forums are a failure. Sure, we have the search feature, but perhaps having them all in one forum will answer alot of their questions and it might just be good to have the newly diagnosed see that there are others out there too newly diagnosed as well.

A new forum would require a high degree of moderation and, I think, a gentle shoving out of that nest when it's time and pushing them to the main living with with repeated encouragement.

just like urban planning, when a single road (living with) might have been fine 5 years ago.. or even one, it's now gettting a bit cramped, so do we put in a bypass or expressway? and ease some of that congestion.... or not.

I guess what I'm asking is where do you see the traffic a year from now? At these levels or much more?
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Blixer on July 19, 2006, 11:56:55 am: Wow, so much has been said and this is a tough issue. I voted yes and then read the posts and began questioning myself. But I'm still a yes vote because I'm kind of in that newly diagnosed category. I was diagnosed 6 months ago and I came into these forums and after reading a few posts I decided I needed to stay away from this place. I was reading all sorts of horror stories and I was beginning to think this was the end of my life. Now that I've adapted a bit, I can handle it better and I realize that there is a lot of background behind some of those scary things I read. I just wasn't ready for all of that and I got my early information elsewhere.

So, there are valid arguments on both sides. And for another forum to work, it can't just be only recently diagnosed folks posting to each other. There would have to be some encouragement of the long timers to head over to the other fourm and read and respond. The Living With seems to be the most active one here. But several of us go to the other forums at least periodically to share what we know. So the idea of segregation might not be an issue at all. And the concept that people wouldn't migrate over doesn't necessarily have any merit either. I spent my first couple of months on another set of HIV forums that had an "I Just Tested Positive" forum. That is where I started. I stayed in that "newly diagnosed" forum for a few weeks and then I migrated over to the Living With. It was just the natural thing to do and it was guided by the others posting on the board. I think it all depends on the dynamics of the forums and those who have been around for a while. I don't think that big dividing wall between the oldies and the newbies would develop.

Lots of good reasoning in these posts, but as someone fairly new to this whole thing I'm pretty sure I would have hung around here more early on if there would have been a Forum for the Newly Infected.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: ACinKC on July 19, 2006, 12:04:18 pm: Put me FIRMLY in the " MAYBE " camp! I was newly diagnosed when I first found this site 2 years ago. Quickly learned the basics and proceeded to TRY and not think of my status anymore. Recently however HIV has hit me like a ton of bricks and this site with all the old timers AND us newbies is a blessing. I would lean to a no. But wouldnt mind a trial run either.

So really, as usual, Ive got nothing to add!

There is 2 minutes of your life you'll never get back!
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Joe K on July 19, 2006, 06:01:45 pm: I don't have a real position, but if you start a new forum, exactly who is going to support that forum and moderate it? Aren't you going to be asking some members to "monitor" the new forum, otherwise you have newbies coming in and talking with newbies and it's like the blind leading well you know. So I'd vote yes, if you are going to staff it and no if you are not. This seems more of an issue of welcoming new members, rather than segregating the forums even further.

Just because the world continue to get more complicated, does not mean we must do that here. I thought the true power of this place was the fact that we do co-exist and quite well at that. Yes some people fall through the cracks, but you will never design the perfect safety net. I don't imagine I would spend much time in such a forum, because I did the Am I forum and I only lasted about a year. I don't do well having to sooth the same nerves, just different person, a couple dozen times each day.

I'd rather see us work at having maybe a mentor program or something, where new members could request a contact by a member to help them feel welcome. Sort of like a welcome ambassador. I just think you can enhance the experience here without further dividing us. Isn't enough that society insists on dividing us, do we have to do that here?
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: livingpositively on July 19, 2006, 06:07:01 pm: I was going to include several quotes here first, but have decided against it as it would get too lengthy. And there were too many things to quote.

BUT...

#1 I personally came here, sort of by accident, and was elated to be able to read other people's personal experiences - good or bad. Yes, the "veterans" have been through hell and it is scary to read about. But HIV IS scary. By tucking the "newbies" away in their own little corner, doesn't that only perpetuate the "difference" in the HIV of yesterday vs the HIV of today? Everyone wants to debate the "manageable disease" point, then on the other side "protect" the "newbies" from scary stories. Can't have it both ways, folks. Additionally, by hiding them away in a corner, we take away from the "veterans" like Moffie, Sonomabeach, Aztecan, Joe, Alan, Ray, etc (I didn't exclude intentionally, those were just who popped into my mind. No disrespect intended at all to anyone) who have been fighting this fight since I was but a young teenager. Before I saw these folks (not used as a generational term, but an all inclusive to include men and women) on line here, I would have guessed that anyone diagnosed that long ago would have long ago succumbed to this disease. There has recently been several threads like http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=1939.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=1939.0) and http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=1690.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=1690.0) which allude to the fact that the "past" and those who have gone before us should not be forgotten. The "newbies" need to know this and they will not get that in a "newbie" forum. They need to know who participated in drug trials so they could bet better "treatment". They need to know who has fought "city hall" to get programs in place, regardless of those programs' own issues. They need to know who has buried 10, 20, 50, 100+ friends over the years. I am in total awe of the "long timers" and they have my utmost respect for sticking this out and paving a better road for "us". Yeah, so sometimes their stories are scary (so is a lot of stuff in history, but we learn about it none the less) and maybe their experiences won't happen to the "newbies". Who can answer that. Drugs have only been around for, what...10 years of the 25. We don't know jack squat about the "big picture" of "treatment". We "newbies" may end up going through the same crap down the line, nobody knows.

#2 You're correct, Jay, I did vote no even though I didn't have a good understanding about CD4s and VL. But if at least 2 of us here didn't know, how many others didn't either and just didn't say so? And how many "newbies" would be able to answer each other's questions? It looks great on "paper" that all these folks are going to run over and support the "newbie" forum and welcome them and answer their questions, etc, etc. Now I ask - how long will it last? Ann, Jonathan, Andy and many others spend a lot of time in the "Am I..." forum. I have personally read, in the few months I've been here, quite a few threads stating that "I need a break", etc, etc. Most people don't even go to the "Am I..." because they can't deal with all the "dumb" questions. It's exasperating to answer the same questions over and over again. Why will the "newbie" forum be any different? A percentage of people will visit, but you can only throw the welcome mat out, offer your condolences for "your new diagnosis", etc so many times before it's going to get old and boring...and left. At least in this forum, if you don't feel in a welcoming mood on any particular day, there are many other people already here. They don't have to make a "special trip" somewhere to pick up the "slack". It doesn't necessarily happen even without a "special trip." There are two "newbie" threads - way off the first page now - where 295 and 323 people viewed, yet less than 10% of the viewers responded (14 and 23, respectively). Probably less than that, actually, because the "newbies" typically respond to the welcomes a few times as well.

I could go on and on, but I'm sure I've already overstayed MY own welcome for this post and I'm just beating a dead horse. Besides, I think I've made my point.

Sorry to get so long winded, just wanted to "rant" a little bit I guess.

Shane

edited for typos, not content.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Life on July 19, 2006, 10:50:17 pm: I just re-read all the posts and I still see this as something very beneficial for both US and those first coming here with BEING DIAGNOSED POS. I will always stay neutral in any final decision but here are a few more things I think are important to understand..

Certian pos folks do not have the problems others face when faced with HIV diagnosis. They may know other people living with HIV, they may live in a big city that has support groups and participate in their ASO's. I didn't have that option. I dint even have an option to find a councilor in my area who understand what HIV means and what is now available.

I would pray that if the powers that be try a new forum, that it would be the old timers or even newly diagnosed who have adjusted to come to this forum and help rescue these folks from the utter dispair, confusion, loneliness, disclosure, meds, life questions that they all will be questioning. Shane I know this will not isolate these newbies from anyone. In fact it will be a draw to read the forum at least once prior to going to the living section and talking about other things a bit deeper in the LIFE ISSUES of living with HIV.

I still clearly see a decompression time for these newly infected to realize that life is truly worth living. In this ever growing infection rate, we are going to see more and more people coming into this site for help and guidance. Now they have a place to sit. Their posts most likely will not roll off in the first day as they can now in living with. You must admit that currently, if you miss one day in LIVING WITH you got a couple of pages to read up on. You might not even know which ones are newbies reaching out if their title to their thread is not clear....

1. Will I die?
2 Will I loose my job?
3. How to I tell my loved ones?
4 I feel like killing myself.
5. I have destroyed my marriage.
6. How do I tell my partner?
7 I have no insurance.
8. I have Co-infections.
9 My partner left me.
10. How can I live with this?
11. Meds!
12. The list goes on and on.

These are the questions the old timers can come in and work with the newly diagnosed AND BOND! Their threads will most likely stay on page one for sometime. They get to find a mentor or an oldtimer who they grow attached to. They feel comfortable opening up to these people. They are under their wing. That feeling of being loved ever so much more than what is happening now will be amplified. People will learn about this site with a forum that is dedicated to the support of a newly infected person. Much like an AIDS crisis hotline. Cries can be more directly comforted with the moderator taking close care of what threads are acceptable in this particular forum. Just as they are in the WW's.

If we are to grow this site especially for the newly infected. which is our legacy, they will come. They will find that close support, and in time, they will grow up and out along with those who they have learned from and become active in the Living With. Some may actually have a good grasp of HIV and move directly into Living. But its the others who have no support, who need the support and that's what our charter is I believe. I see you Shane and so many others above who could dramatically change the dynamics of recovery in a very special way..

Shane also mentioned that this will become boring and repetitious. I submit, that each individual will have his own core set of circumstances he/she will want to share in a closer confidence of a smaller forum. This for the current site users will do YOU just as much GOOD as you have just done for the newly infected... I believe this to be true...

"In order for us to KEEP it, we have to GIVE it away"

Please, this is just my opinion, dont be angry with me. I am still a newbie and I don't take it very well mentally.. I am just surviving myself..

Love & Support and lets see what happens.....
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: gerry on July 19, 2006, 11:30:05 pm: Joe, from the outside looking in, I do not think the proposed new forum would necessarily be flooded with posters whose "nerves" need to be "soothed." It doesn't even have to be a forum that the newly diagnosed would need to use if they are comfortable using the busier Living With formum. It might seem counter-intuitive but I actually think it will diminish the sporadic appearance of posts you were alluding to, just because if the forum itself is less busy in terms of the number of new threads created (my assumption), it would be easier for someone new to the site to read through the threads that are there, and perhaps not have to repeat the concerns that were already raised,or just join in by adding to the thread. The tremendous activity in the Living With makes this a lot more difficult to happen because these threads get burried very easily by newer threads that get started or are surfaced. It gets overwhelming to have to go through pages of threads to try to find out if a newcomer's concern or question or whatever has already been discussed before. So the easiest thing to do would be to just post again (hence generating the feeling of needing to answer the same question over and over again). By the same token, it's hard to unearth threads that contain valuable input to link up to someone's new inquiry if the other thread had been burried pages down.

I may not be explaining it well, but I hope that makes sense. My sense is, judging from the history of the forums, it would actually encourage more participation.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: livingpositively on July 19, 2006, 11:35:44 pm: Eric, I would never be angry at you (or anybody else, for that matter) for expressing your point of view. You know what they say about opinions...(just kidding) ;) I just felt the need to take my argument, if you will, a step further and show some supporting "evidence" as to why I think the way I do. I, too, am pretty new to this (diagnosed in March). I do not begrudge anyone for stating their opinion, whether it counters my own or not. That's why this thread was put here.

I would like to say that I am duly impressed with everyone who has posted in this thread. Clearly, there are many differing opinions - some differ more than others. Yet, nobody has "gotten into it." We have had/are having a REAL discussion here, like civilized human beings. I love it.

If the new forum is indeed implemented, I will support it and the "members" of it, as I would hope would have happened for any of us. I will admit right now, I'm probably one of those that "will need a break" occassionally. I don't have the patience that Ann and Jonathan, etc possess.

Anyway...nuff said.

Shane
(who does rather enjoy a heated thread every now and again) ;)
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: newt on July 20, 2006, 02:48:36 am: It's a finely balanced argument. I have changed my vote to either way.

Peter, if you do go for it, the choice of name for the forum seems important. Personally, I dislike the shorthand Poz, but I know many people prefer it. The important thing to my mind would be to find a title that discourages speculative creep from the Am I Infected? forum. I Just Tested... doesn't quite capture everyone, people might be recently diagnosed, or even somewhat longer but just starting to deal with it, and therefore part of the "new" crowd.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: joemutt on July 20, 2006, 04:13:13 am: For me it can go either way. But if you do, you might incorporate something like "pozmentor' in it as to have a link to the experience of the not recently diagnosed (or old timers, if you please)
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: manchesteruk on July 20, 2006, 06:07:25 am: Quote from: livingpositively on July 19, 2006, 06:07:01 pm
By tucking the "newbies" away in their own little corner, doesn't that only perpetuate the "difference" in the HIV of yesterday vs the HIV of today? Everyone wants to debate the "manageable disease" point, then on the other side "protect" the "newbies" from scary stories. Can't have it both ways, folks. Additionally, by hiding them away in a corner, we take away from the "veterans" like Moffie, Sonomabeach, Aztecan, Joe, Alan, Ray, etc

I couldn't agree with this point more to be honest. Sure there could be plus sides of a forum for newly diagnosed but I think the above reasons outweigh it. Also when is a new member not considered new anymore and is allowed to post in the living with forum? It all sounds like segregation to me which is the last thing a newly diagnosed person want's to deal with they are concerned enough about that to begin with. Secondly for a new members forum to work it would need the regular input of the members of the living with forum so I don't see the benefit of having two forums to achieve this.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Ann on July 20, 2006, 09:19:59 am: I'm not voting, but I'd like to address some of the concerns that have been raised here.

I don't see any problems coming from the people who post in the Am I forum. Well, no more than the occasional foray into Living that we already have. If we do create a new forum, the Welcome thread in Am I will be amended to reflect the fact that the Newly Diagnosed forum is also off limits to them.

I don't see a new forum being a place to hide the newly diagnosed away, nor would it be a place they HAD to post in for a certain length of time. It would NOT be a case of someone new being "allowed" (or not) to post in the Living forum. It would simply be a safe haven for those who do not yet feel comfortable posting in Living.

However, I can see that questions about what labs mean and whatnot being moved into that forum if they are posted in Living, but it would be decided on a case-to-case situation, just as all threads are now. It doesn't happen all that often that threads are moved and I can't really see that changing.

I don't see a problem either with who is going to answer questions there. Those who want to will do it and those who would rather not, won't. If we do create this forum, I will be checking it several times a day as I'm sure Andy will be, and it will actually make it simpler to extend a welcome to new people.

Personally, I don't mind one way or another if we have this new forum or not, but I don't see it creating problems and if it helps a few newly diagnosed people find their feet here, then it can only be a good thing.

Just my .02 of the currency of your choice.

Ann
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: David_CA on July 20, 2006, 09:20:56 am: I think the ideas of mentoring a new member sounds great. I know many don't have a real-life support system in their lives; these are the ones who probably need mentoring the most. I guess my biggest reason against this 'improvement' would be "Why do we need it?" The current forums work great; look at all the new members. If it didn't work, we wouldn't have all these new members. I barely have enough time to keep up with the Living With and Off Topic forums, and I'm sure many others do, too. I think that the all-important welcome to a new member's initial post would be sacrificed with less traffic in the proposed 'Newly Diagnosed' forum. Besides, do we really want only a very small handful of seasoned HIV+ folks giving opinions? What makes this site so great is that we have all races, religions, continents, and age groups covered. This variety, this all inclusiveness is what will welcome new members. The squabbling and hateful posts are easy to eliminate, if one is concerned that new members will be turned off by them; we simply need to quit posting things that aren't appropriate. We're big people now, we know what sort of posts are helpful and what are hurtful.

David
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: gerry on July 20, 2006, 11:18:14 am: Quote
I guess my biggest reason against this 'improvement' would be "Why do we need it?" The current forums work great; look at all the new members. If it didn't work, we wouldn't have all these new members.

Without a doubt, forums activity is at an all time high. And we can only expect that it would increase, including an influx of more new members. We cannot really make a conclusion that the current format works as best as it could be without being able to hear from those who tried it, found it was too overwhelming, and decided to pass, without even attempting to post. We've heard from Jay when he referred a couple of people here and they seemed to have been unable to "filter through" the very busy Living With forums. Those opportunities could very well have been missed opportunities. I'm not saying that the goal should be to get each and every one with internet access who is living with HIV to become a member. It's still not going to be for everyone. But we have to consider why there were "many requests" sent to Peter and others privately to have such a forum made available. It sounds to me like there are people out there who do want to be included but for some reason are being hindered. Perhaps, the current format, as great as it is now, is one of those reasons. That's only my opinion (and vibe), of course.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: AlanBama on July 20, 2006, 11:40:08 am: I am really liking Joe's idea of an ambassador or mentor for the newly diagnosed.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: AldousOrwell on July 20, 2006, 11:47:53 am: Christ me and Dingo have actually agreed on something!

Although like him I have mixed views but on balance I see no harm in trialing it. Could the streams not be merged later if it did not achieve a predetermined set of goals.

I've already noticed a difference in attitude of longer term survivors and the more confident refined ARV using newbies. Us newbies can learn a lot from these elderstatespeople and it would not be too hard to link to the other threads when relevant points are referred to in either area.

Perhaps we should mark the tenth anniversary of HAART in this way. Those starting HAART in 2006 are different to those who went on the less refined ARVS in 1996 or even 2000. In terms of less side effects but conversely worse off in terms of less access to welfare since the governments knew we were going to live.

Wait.. re read... nothing controversial ..... post.

Aldous 'Oh no not you again' Orwell.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Gilles on July 20, 2006, 11:58:36 am: I am not trying to be agist but I rather have a forum for young positive people ...like 18-30....reading some of the threads I often don't associate myself with people who have been diagnosed since 80s and are in their mid 40s. It would be good to have a forum for younger people because I think we have different lifestyle and are part of the different generation and therefore have different concerns...anyway this is my suggestion and I am not trying to discriminate against people who are older than me and I have been able to get some great information from them....however, I cannot really associate myself with many of their issues....

Please don't get offended by this suggestion because it is not meant to be...but I think if you would be of 23 years of age it is more helpful to talk to people of same age and in similar situation.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Joe K on July 20, 2006, 03:01:28 pm: Alright, some of the arguments have been compelling and I'd support such a forum, but I think we need some commitments from posters to sort of "monitor" the forum so the new posters do not get ignored. I suppose we'll never know unless we try it and if it doesn't work, then we just go back to where we are now.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: David_CA on July 20, 2006, 03:23:19 pm: You know, it's kind of funny. Back a few months ago I was new to this forum and to HIV in general. I made a suggestion to have another forum primarily for introductions for those newly infected and new to HIV. Almost nobody supported that idea. People gave their opinions as to why this wasn't a good idea, but I still thought it was. The benefits I've received from this site, in its current format, helped me and changed my mind. I'm glad "Living with HIV" was the main forum. Like I said in an earlier post, I know I would have missed out on a lot of responses had I posted in a 'Newbie' forum. It's kind of like the "Side Effects" and "Treatment Questions" forums; those two go hand-in-hand so well that I wouldn't know where to post. If I'm wanting to know about a treatment, side effects are a big part of it. I don't know that dividing the attention paid to posts would be a good thing. To me, there really aren't too many posts in "Living with HIV" to wade through. As of 3:20 pm today, there are only about 20 posts that have a modified date of 'Today'; that's not too many. I also think most new people here, especially those new to HIV, read a lot of the back posts. I know I read post after post... several years worth. I wanted all the info I could find. Mostly, though, 'living with HIV' is exactly what I needed to hear when I got my poz diagnosis; I needed to hear about living.

David
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Terry on July 20, 2006, 11:28:00 pm: Well now I need to add another suggestion about forums and threads that has been kind of an annoyance for me. >:(

I watch C-SPAN on cable TV on a regular basis. It’s a rather informative and a very un-bias news station. C-SPAN has a rule about callers calling in too often. As a matter of fact I think you can only call in once a month. Which brings me to my point.

I basically read/log onto the forum for information about and concerning HIV/AIDS. I do enjoy the humor and crazy stuff that goes on in here. I’m one that is first to get into a fight or argument, it’s my nature. Goodness knows I’m too serious of a person and I need the Lwood, Dachshund, and Jack/Jake kind of personalities in my life. (For your information those are three that I admire quite a lot) Just saying, so as not to get my ass kicked. >:( >:( >:(

However, would it be possible for members to be limited to like say starting only one thread a week. I’m not going to say names. But I’ve logged on to AIDSmeds a number of times and a few people have started a number of threads one right after the other and it’s truly all a waste of time to click onto all this silly crap. Like “I forgot to feed the cat today” “I want to send wishes to” And “I also I want to send wishes to this one also.” (You get my point?) The living with forum has become like an old ladies sewing circle. Try leaving that silliness for the off topics or pm’s.

Now if I haven’t made myself perfectly clear in expressing myself, you can have Tim Horn give me a call at 707-869-XX69 whenever he’s up to it.

Back to my point. There is too much dumb crap being posted where important information needs space. Let’s get this site back to what made it great in the first place.

Terry

PS. I hope my points are taken seriously. Let’s get back to dealing/living/understanding HIV/AIDS.

PPS. David_nc you don’t need anything at all. You have it all dude. In my opinion You have your shit together.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Cliff on July 21, 2006, 04:43:24 am: I voted either way, because I can see the benefits of it, but am not sure how it would work in practice. But I do like Matt's idea of a Spanish Language forum.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: bobik on July 21, 2006, 05:48:23 am: Hello Peter,

I would keep on reading the living with forum, and forget about the newly infected forum. I think the good thing about this forum is the mixture, the mutual understanding of newly infected and oldies. That is what I missed on the dutch HIV forum, that is why I came here.

Coen
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: carousel on July 21, 2006, 06:24:48 am: .
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: bobik on July 21, 2006, 10:38:19 am: A question to the oldies: How many of you would regularly read the newbie forum?

A question to the newbies: if the oldies did'nt write in the newbie forum to advise you, would you miss them?
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: David_CA on July 21, 2006, 12:59:22 pm: Quote from: bobik on July 21, 2006, 10:38:19 am
A question to the oldies: How many of you would regularly read the newbie forum?

A question to the newbies: if the oldies did'nt write in the newbie forum to advise you, would you miss them?

I most certainly would miss them. I think we'd have a lot of questions without nearly as many answers if they weren't here.

David
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: AlanBama on July 21, 2006, 01:35:17 pm: Please excuse this temporary hijack, but I need to say this:

Terry, I am sorry that you don't like the fact that I post Happy Birthday threads in the Living With section. The way I see it, every birthday we celebrate is truly remarkable. It's part of "Living With AIDS".

The moderators have NEVER stated that they had a problem with me doing this, but I'll take this opportunity to ask:

Are the Happy Birthday threads inappropriate for the Living With Forum? If so, I will gladly post them in Off Topic. I figured this subject would come up one day, I just had hoped that when it did I would be in a better mood than I am in today.

>:(
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Trish on July 21, 2006, 01:49:19 pm: I voted either way...

Should there be a new forum for the newly infected/diagnosed, personally I would visit that forum and welcome them. I try to welcome all the new people in Living With, but with the influx of activity on the forums I find it hard to keep up. I do my best to welcome as many as I can, because I do remember when I first came this site and the outpouring of welcomes, support and love from all those who took the time to do so was what kept me here to the end. So, with that being said, yes I would visit the new forum should it come to exist. If not, I will continue to welcome as many people as I can get to in the Living forum.

And should this new forum happen, and then we see it isn't working, I see no problem with going back to the way it has always been -- posting in the Living With.

It's a worth a shot. I see no harm in trying it out.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Ann on July 21, 2006, 02:13:54 pm: Alan,

I've got no problem with you posting birthday notices in Living for exactly the reason you mention.

Sorry to hear you're having one of those days.

Hugs,
Ann
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: AlanBama on July 21, 2006, 03:01:10 pm: Thank you Ann. The birthday thing is a labor of love, and I understand that you can never please everybody. If someone doesn't like the birthday threads, no one is holding a gun to their head to make them click on them.

Hugs,

Alan
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Jena on July 21, 2006, 03:10:20 pm: When I was diagnoised last summer I was fortunate to find this forum right away. I can honestly say that it saved my sanity, if not my life. I learned so much more here than I would have ever learned from doctors, case workers, on my own... I say, no, no new forum, this is where the newly diagnoised people need to be, where they can get good, sound advise, not on a forum with other folks just like themselves, full of fear and feeding off each other.
Jena
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Terry on July 21, 2006, 04:41:16 pm: Alan,

I don’t know who told you that I said such a thing. But they’re wrong. I don’t say happy birthday to everyone because I don’t know everyone. But I do send my good wishes to those people you put up that I do know.

Maybe you are having a bad day! Don’t we all have them? You just made my day ugly by accusing me of something I never said.

Have a good day. I won’t talk about this to you again. You should get your facts straight before you start accusing people of stuff.

Terry
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: AlanBama on July 21, 2006, 04:58:04 pm: I'm very sorry if I misinterpreted you, Terry. But you stated "I want to send wishes out to".....to me that means birthday wishes. No, you did not specifically state the word 'birthday'. If I was limited to one post per week, that certainly wouldn't work for July when we have about 20-25 birthdays!

I apologize to you, perhaps I am overly sensitive today (and most days!) I hope you will still be my friend, and forgive me if I misunderstood your intentions.

Alan

edited to add: PS - I apologize again to everyone for hijacking this thread. Please forgive me.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: bobik on July 21, 2006, 05:01:03 pm: Quote from: Terry on July 20, 2006, 11:28:00 pm
Well now I need to add another suggestion about forums and threads that has been kind of an annoyance for me. >:(

However, would it be possible for members to be limited to like say starting only one thread a week. I’m not going to say names. But I’ve logged on to AIDSmeds a number of times and a few people have started a number of threads one right after the other and it’s truly all a waste of time to click onto all this silly crap. Like “I forgot to feed the cat today” “I want to send wishes to” And “I also I want to send wishes to this one also.” (You get my point?)

Hi Terry,
I can very well understand that Alan thought you were talking about the birthday wishes, considering what you wrote earlier on. No reason to feel accused. If you read your own post, can't you understand the misunderstanding?

Coen
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: water duck on July 21, 2006, 06:22:19 pm: Terry darling,

You love to roar like a lion, you scare away the 'newbie'.
If only they stand their ground, they will realize that the lion is toothless.

Siang

PS : i would suggest to Mr G Bushy to call 707-869-XX69 ;) ;)
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: anniebc on July 21, 2006, 06:42:18 pm: I see no harm in a trial run...those who want this to work will make it work, and I agree with Gerry, so many newly diagnosed are getting lost in the sheer number of threads...if we want to help and support them we have to make sure we don't lose sight of them...a new forum may well be the way to do this.

Hugs
Jan :)
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Jeffreyj on July 22, 2006, 01:35:43 am: I think it's a good idea to leave things the way they are. Lets be in it together...from begining, to the end, and everything in between.
I hope everyone is doing well. PEACE
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Peter Staley on July 22, 2006, 08:04:29 am: bump
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Eldon on July 22, 2006, 06:10:24 pm: Well Peter, it is a tough one here. i voted no. They need to be around some of the older members to get some feedback. We still want them to be part of the group.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: water duck on July 22, 2006, 06:31:53 pm: Really Eldon !!
If older members sincerity is questionable, i don't think we want them to be part of the group !!
Your shady fundraising efforts had spilled over onto the Zephyr Foundation which is an honest and pure effort for LTNP, causing alot of grievance for a number of us here. Till now , you had never offered any explanation, of which i consider it is long over due !!
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Peter Staley on July 22, 2006, 06:59:25 pm: Water Duck -- I asked folks to post comments in this thread about the pros & cons of having a new forum. Your post does neither, but instead, seeks to hijack this thread, and start a flame war.

Please, please, please, Eldon -- don't take the bait -- ignore waterduck's post. In fact, I hope everyone ignores his post, and continues to use this thread ONLY for discussing the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Peter
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: water duck on July 22, 2006, 07:09:48 pm: Peter,

SORRY it is never in my intentions, what you started : AIDSMED has helped so many , it will be a crime to start a FLAME WAR !!!

I shall ban myself from this site for awhile to cool off.

PETER , I HAVE TOO MUCH RESPECT FOR YOU HAVING STARTED THIS TO DO OTHERWISE !!!

Sorry.

Siang
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Eldon on July 22, 2006, 07:20:07 pm: Vincent,

First or all you cut the communication off when I tried to PM you and explained what happened. You responded with a do not communicate.

Second, If you would have took the time to READ what Tim Horn wrote you wouldn't be writing this in this thread at all.

Thirdly, I LISTENED to Tim and followed HIS instructions and I DID NOT reply becaused I was asked not to post anything else in the thread.

Fourthly, You could have approached this differently by sending me a PM which is a useful tool on this site.

By the way, for your 411, Tim AND Peter got a response from me.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Eldon on July 22, 2006, 07:26:32 pm: Ok Peter, I apologize your post posted while I was typing the other response, Everyone please ignore this.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Life on July 24, 2006, 11:29:42 pm: Eldon, they will be AROUND and they will not get lost in all of "this".... ;D
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: DingoBoi on July 24, 2006, 11:39:59 pm: Quote from: Peter Staley on July 22, 2006, 08:04:29 am
bump

bumping is frowned upon in this forum as you should know peter. oops wait, you are the damn quasi owner/mod of this. ok.. you can bend the rules ;)

did you know your email is *self edit* glad to know it's so easy to find cockle (sorry couldn't resist) but it's the combo of that that makes me laugh (didn't want to publish here for obvious reasons)

and on that note...

I will reiterate my support for a new forum... for the simple reason that we are growing. It might have worked fine months ago... after the merger it still 'seems' to work, but i fear it WONT continue to work.... there are too many coming to handle in the same forum.. that's my main concern in voicing support for this, espeically after my initial 'no' response. I don't want this forum to be 'reactive' rather than 'proactive'.

I think they will be 'crowded out' in the living with forum... again it's not the situation now... but it will be soon.... especially aftter the merger and all the links ... we've only seen a glimmer of what is about to happen i think here in the current forums.. I think it's going to shortly explode fully justifying a new forum. Just by that partnership. Hell, you people in the know, well... know what traffic this site is getting and where they orginate from (ie: poz.com).

I do think actually that should be more encouraged... with ads or snips to direct people here to talk about being newly diagnosed. to me the poz.com website seems very 'long-time infected' information' without clear direction for newly tested pozzies. Could that be corrected so they could ACTIVELY be directed here to talk? The current links seem so passive and doesn't shout out 'NEWLY DIAGNOSED?' like it should i feel.

I don't believe there is a single link that says something to that effect on the main page of Poz.com. (i could be wrong here)

Can we make it easy for the newly diagnosed to find the information they need? I really think this should be a key HIGHLIGHTED link that is very obvious on the poz.com main page.

Again, it comes back to a newly diagnosed person trying to figure out where to start... going to poz.com's main page can be overwhelming.. where is the 'START HERE FIRST' type of link or ad?

the page is GREAT for the rest of us who are used to it and 'know'... but for a new person???? I fear that it DOES overwhelm them... EVEN HERE... where is the OBVIOUS link on the main page for the newly infected?... i really think something like this should be added to both. z(and if it's there already, it's needs better highlighting or placement)

When i tested poz, i went out on the web and researched a bit.. and i did find this site... but NEVER found the forums. it wasn't until six months later i came back and eventually joined everyone here.

why? because i didn't know they existed.. i never saw the link to it.

at the time i was so overwhelmelmed and looking at a website without seeing that obvious link drove me away at first.

I think both websites needs a "newly diagnosed?' ad that directs them to a specific lesson... i know some are in place already, but frankly, they are very technical/medical, where people need to first hear "okay, just breathe for a moment.. relax... and then learn about the many links that both sites offer.

I fear i'm rambling now so i'm gonna stop, but that was my initial impression when i came to aidsmeds... everything was a blur and i missed the best part which is the forums (ok.. the best part for 'me').. everything is great here... but more direction is needed for new people and especially better direction to the forums in general.

they need a 'safe' forum for them to express there fears in and be honest without totally scaring them about the true reality of hiv.... not to minimize it, but for most the realities won't be obvious for many years, it's too much a blow to them to get hiv and come here for support and see all the 'horror' the living with can present which is real, but, in terms of welcome and introduction to this, is probably not things they need to read explicitly.

yes, many will still read it, but between the anticipated GROWING traffic, i am adamant now that they need a specific forum for them.

Concerns are all valid, and it will take 'working out' but i feel for this site to grow properly, this should be added.

I just fear the horror of people newly infected reading tales of 20+ year pozies. That's NOT their reality in this day and age for the mostpart. We need to be a little more appreciative of the differences between then and now... tho, with respect, it's never easy no matter what.

Let's just make their introduction a bit easier is what I want to say.

Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Alain on July 25, 2006, 11:17:45 am: .
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: AlanBama on July 25, 2006, 11:27:57 am: I think Dingo makes a good argument in favor of a 'newly poz' forum. I totally get what he means about the newly diagnosed people's reality being different from the long termers....this is probably something we need to face and deal with in a practical manner.
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: David_CA on July 25, 2006, 12:15:07 pm: The more I think about it, the more I think a new forum for 'Newly Diagnosed' isn't a good idea. Why would anybody want a fellow newly diagnosed person to do much more than welcome them? I really think the Old Timers' experiences are what we (newly diagnosed) need. They've often been on many, if not all, of the drugs and dealt with side effects. They've experienced a variety of doctors, government bureaucracies, insurance issues, emotional, and personal problems that are likely to confront those of us who'll be living with HIV. If they haven't experienced these things, I can imagine they know people that have and can relate the situation.

The other main problem occurs when the ones who start in a 'Newly Diagnosed' forum start posting in the 'Living with HIV' section. It will definitely be somewhat difficult to respond to their questions without knowing their background. I imagine a lot of Old Timers will stay in the 'Living with HIV' forum and miss out on the introductions. I'm sure they'll still respond to questions, but would be forced to go look for a post in another section to make sure that their answer is even relevant.

I think if we just behave ourselves and keep the bitching private that new users won't be so intimidated (if they even are). When I initially started lurking on this site, there was a BIG to-do about John and Trish. There was name calling, accusations, and all kinds of tacky interactions. I wasn't sure what the hell it had to do with living with HIV. Soon enough, that situation died down and things returned to issues dealing with HIV and AIDS.

I remember how I first found this site. I searched Google for "living with HIV". I had already found tons of general information about HIV/AIDS, drugs, side effects, etc. What I was really searching for was how one lives with HIV; that is exactly what I found here. I learned how Old Timers had dealt, and are dealing, with side effects. Those side effects will also be of concern to me. I read about how they had faced problems with financial support, depression, anxiety, and any number of issues. Some have already become issues for me. Without the information on living with HIV that I found here, I KNOW that I wouldn't be handling this as well as I am nor as equipped to handle it in the future. Let's think about what newly diagnosed folks need and think about why they're not getting it here in "Living with HIV". I think that most will realize that, for the most part, we really are getting what we need here.

David
Title: Re: New Forum for newly infected?
Post by: Peter Staley on July 26, 2006, 03:48:29 pm: Okay -- we've decided to launch a new forum called "I Just Tested Poz" for the newly diagnosed, and for the older-than-new that want to help them.

I think the most convincing argument for this is the dramatic increase in traffic "Living with" has had, making it hard for newcomers to find the kind of threads that will help them most.

Let's make one thing clear from the get go -- old-timers are more than welcome in this new forum. In fact, it probably won't work unless the old-timers help out in a major way.

And finally, nothing is set in stone here. If this doesn't work out, I'm sure you'll let us know. We can always merge the new forum back into "Living With."

I'll probably launch this later today.

Peter