Self-destruction: Regardless of how good things are going, I have AIDS.

[sadboy]

It's a problem I been facing for a very long time. I sometimes feel like I unconsciencely set myself up to be miserable or a failure since being diagnosed with HIV. Thing are going very well in many other aspects in my life including financial stability and family. At the end of the day I purposely remind myself that I have AIDS. Regardless of how good I may feel, I purposely remind myself to stop feeling "happy" because I do not deserve to.

I refuse to take anti-depressants because of side-effects issues I've had with many of them in the past and therapy is not working as well as I expected it to be. Is this part of the HIV positive package to self- destruct myself?

[Life]

SadBoy, How long have you been pos?

Eric

[AustinWesley]

Hey Sad,

Like you I had horrible experiences with anti depressants in the past.   In fact, there are new studies coming out that they don't work for up to 50 - 70% of people.   I believe I have an opposite reaction to them.

For those who claim they work that's great.  They never did for me.

What does work for me is surrounding myself with people who have managed to pull their lives together and succeed and overcome the HIV & AIDS depression and related emotional issues.   I'm not saying I don't think about it because I do every day.

But, early on, I was having a real pity party for myself when a friend accidentally sent me an email about a girl who was in a drunk driving accident.   She survived after being in a fire and doesn't even look remotely human now and has had to endure countless surgeries and has NO hope of any kind of a normal life ever, yet she goes on.

Sounds simplistic, but that really helped me put things into perspective.   HIV & AIDS are NO walk in the park, but there are people out there suffering from much worse diseases and disabilities who don't have any shot at life at all.   I'm lucky to have a family who has always been very optimistic about facing various diseases and conditions.   In the last year both of my parents have faced cancer, neither gave up and continue on with life.

Depression is natural.  We all go through it at some point, but don't let HIV be something which criples your mind.  Keep on fighting and keep those positive affirmations about the good in mind.  

This may sound even more corny, but when I feel I'm starting to get depressed or let the HIV or AIDS label get to me I try and just stop myself and silently tell myself Don't even let yourself go there!  

Also, it's important to surround yourself with people you want to emulate, and avoid those who bring you down!

Keep on plugging away!  

Wesley

[sadboy]

Life:

two years.

[Boo Radley]

sadboy,

Welcome to AM!  I went back to read your prior posts and see you tested poz recently (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

What you are going through is very normal.  When I tested poz I'd be diddling along in my usual, complacent way and suddenly remember I was going to become horribly ill and die soon.  I used to jerk up as I was dozing off to sleep with the harsh realization I had HIV and was dying, like when you're dreaming you're falling and wake up in fear.  How could I be happy with HIV??  My life was over.

That was 1989. Today HIV and even the diagnosis of AIDS in 2004 don't faze me at all.  Sure, I still procrastinate with lab work (last labs due 3/1) and have rough days but HIV is a part of me, like having green eyes and graying hair.  We coexist with each other and, as I often say, I'm just too mean to die.  Screw HIV!!  I had chronic Hepatitis B and that was much worse on me physically.  And, because 3TC is one of the drugs I take for HIV, the 3TC cleared the Hep B so I no longer have an active infection.  Talk about a bonus!

Take each moment as it passes, then each hour, and so on.  Try to understand and acknowledge you have not been given a death sentence, you are not tainted goods, you are still a wonderful person as you were before this virus entered your life.   It's easier said than done but I think most of us infected for a good while have similar coping strategies.

Good luck!  Post often!

[Life]

SadBoy, I think we all have experienced depression and self-destructive behavior at some point during our careers in hiv.   The first six months for me was every fleeting second of every day and night thinking about what has happened and what could happen.   I feel very similar to what Wes has stated and in the big picture of life,  we need to put all of this into perspective.   I myself continue to do this everyday.  I think I am getting better.   For the first year I was on a Paxil and anti anxiety pills that did help me from roominating so much.  I still wonder if I stopped those to soon?  I dont know.  I do know that I need to feel my way through this.   I need to keep talking and putting my feelings out there to get feedback and help in "corrective thinking".   I get that here.   I do not have a support group or other live humans to interact with in person where I live, so this is it for me for now...  

Purhaps you should put your fears out there for those to read and maybe they can knock you out of your "self-destruction"?   The more you give and share, the more you shall receive.   I by know means have healed from my diagnosis date, but I am "coming along".    

Hope you decide to open up a bit to someone and express how you truly feel.   Its a tuffy, but you owe it to yourself.   IT TRULY SUCKS FEELING THAT WAY.   At least you know it sucks and are putting it out there.....

Hugs,


Eric

[Buckmark]

What really strikes me about your situation is that you are sabotaging your
happiness, in terms of reminding yourself that you have HIV and should not
feel happy.   It is not part of HIV to self-destruct in this manner.   It almost
sounds as if you don't want to feel happy, which I think is very significant
and needs to be addressed.

I'd really suggest talking to your therapist about this -- and you may want to find a
new therapist if you don't feel you've made progress with your current therapist.

Other things that have helped me include anti-depressant medications.
I can understand your reluctance, though, due to some of their side-effects.
Like HIV meds, side-effects can differ for each person, and for each med.
Folks all over have differing opinions on their efficacy.  That is something that
ultimately you and your doctor would need to work on.

The other thing that helps me is surrounding myself with supportive friends
and family, who help me see that I can handle what HIV / AIDS may throw
my way (18+ years and counting for me).  Admittedly it is hard to see that
sometimes.  It is even harder to do by yourself.  Since you say your relationship
with your family is good, I suggest you enlist their help with this issue, too.

Regards,

Henry

[racingmind]

Sadboy,

I can completely identify with how you feel.  I am seeing a therapist and the focus lately has been on the fact that I can't help feeling like a failure.  I feel like I let myself and everyone I care about down by allowing myself to become HIV+.  

My therapist keeps emphasizing that my condition is just that...a condition; a virus.  Anyone can get it.  We are human and we all make mistakes and sometimes take risks.  Some have more dire consequences than others. 

I had a conversation with my primary doctor recently.  We were discussing HIV and other diseases that he sees everyday.  I told him I can't decide which is worse, HIV or cancer....he said cancer is worse based on his own experiences.  I don't know if that made me feel better or not....his point was that HIV is much more manageable than cancer in recent years.

As far as having self destructive feelings...I think we all have them from time to time.  I know that I had them long before I became HIV positive.  I think it's normal to have them at certain stages of life.


I know it's tough some days....but I find that a good cry now and then makes me feel better and gives me the strength to move forward.

Everyday we grow stronger.  

[Peter6836]

Dear Sad,
I can relate to what you are saying. It is not easy to deal with all of the aspects of this disease. I do have a suggestion though, and it is to get yourself a new therapist. Therapy can be very helpful in sorting out and dealing with feelings. You deserve to feel better about your situation and your life. You say that therapy is not doing what you want it to. Well change that and find a new therapist. There are many different types of therapy and therapists out there. Interview some therapist talk to them about their philosophies and on how they conduct therapy. Set some goals for you and your therpist. You deserve to enjoy the life you have go for it. You can feel better about things, you do not deserve to keep beating yourself up. Apparently you want to feel better otherwise you would not be asking for help!!
Peter

[izprince1984]

anti-depressants are simply drugs designed to fool your brain and make it feel as though you are happy, I could smoke a nice fat joint and get better results though.

[sadboy]

I appreciate all of your responses. I suppose that starting this thread is a cry for help, especially after a few friends of mine have had enough of my moods. One of my closest friends told me she will no longer beg me to go out nor comfort me because I need to snap out of it. I've treated her like total trash at times and she has put up with my anti-social and manic-depressive moods for a couple of years now and just recently she told me that she will no longer help me or beg me until I stop feeling sorry for myself and move on with my life. It was a real eye opener but I guess I needed to hear that, I was at a point where I would throw hissy fits and act like a baby in public.

[Boo Radley]

anti-depressants are simply drugs designed to fool your brain and make it feel as though you are happy,

I respectfully disagree.  Anti-depressants don't make anyone feel happy per se.  They correct or adjust an imbalance of biochemicals which are the root of depression for many with recurring or chronic depression.   I used to believe what you do but I was drinking a quart of Stoli every night (no implication you do this!!)   On October 10, 1996 I took my first dose of Paxil after unsuccessfully trying several anti-depressants.  The next day I woke up a new person, or the person I used to be years ago before constant sadness and anxiety became constant companions-- that morning the first thought in my head wasn't "why can't you die?," as it was almost every other day.  I had the day off and went to see a new movie, Beautiful Thing, by myself (which is why I know the date because I still have the ticket).  I had never been to a movie alone in my life.  I'd never eaten alone at a restaurant.  I avoided stores and malls and other public places since early adolescence.  God, it was hard enough to go out in public with the safety of friends, as many as I could have to shield me.  All that changed in one day's time.  I was 40 years old.  If it's a placebo it's worked pretty well all these years.

Anti-depressants are frequently useless for someone dealing with situational depression, such as that brought on my a spouse's or child's or parent's death, a divorce or romantic break-up, loss of a job, and other events which are likely to trigger temporary emotional tumult.   In such cases it's best to deal with the issues and move on.  With physical depression dealing with the issues is advisable but often there are no deep issues.  A bio-chemical disarray makes our brains generate feelings which are experienced as depression.  Just as a diabetic needs insulin I need Paxil to help regulate serotonin better than my body does by itself.

I could smoke a nice fat joint and get better results though.

I've been smoking pot probably longer than you've been on this planet.  It's helpful for reducing stress (if I don't smoke it my TMJ is unbearable and I have to take tranquilizers to lessen the anxiety and pain) and if one is going to use any drug, including alcohol (especially alcohol!), it's the monkey of choice for my back.  Pot doesn't make me black out (unless I eat too many brownies but that's rare because I usually smoke it) or change me from a Jekyll to a Hyde after too many drinks are likely to do.   I'm smoking it now!

Sorry for meandering off-topic...

[Central79]

Dear Sad

Sorry to hear that you are struggling. I can totally relate. I'm 15 months from being diagnosed and feel like everything is going the wrong way. I managed to hold things together for the rest of the academic year when I was diagnosed, but since Winter '06 have just been getting worse and worse.

I think forgiving myself for getting HIV is probably the toughest thing I'm going through right now. Because I've made one mistake, I feel like the rest of my life is tainted and spoilt. That I can no longer derive any sense of enjoyment from things I used to enjoy. And that I don't deserve to. I have found myself withdrawing from the things that used to make me feel good when I was negative, and which could again now: the gym, my friends, my boyfriend, the outdoors... All of it. I am also neglecting my work. Part of me feels that I'm just shutting off until I die. When some enjoyment creeps in, I stamp on it.

I don't need to keep reminding myself that HIV is the shitty end of the stick. I do need to remind myself that I am still alive, able to do the same stuff for now and that if I do it, I feel better now. I remind myself to try and not worry so much about the future, because although I feel that HIV has increased the risk of me getting ill, it's a rapidly changing field and you never know what might happen.

It's weird that some people on this thread have talked about other people's problems putting theirs into perspective. I don't feel like that. I knew I was damn lucky (globally speaking) to have enough food and water, shelter and freedom. I know other people deal with things tougher than this. But does it make me feel better? No. Because I'm always comparing myself to how I was when I was negative, and feeling a sense of loss.

I'm sorry you've bad experiences taking some anti-depressants. And I'm glad your going to therapy. You're obviously prepared to work hard on your mental health, and that's the most important thing. I take anti-depressants, and I'm in analysis. I think anti-depressants work well for most people as a class of drug - but you have to shop around, giving each enough time to work before rejecting it. I had side effects too, but keep at it. It takes time. I also see a lot of people who are on a low dose, which is doing nothing for them, but makes their doctor feel better. Ask about it.

The other thing I wanted to say is that neither pills, or therapy, are a magic bullet for depression. Therapy is tough, and hard work. Sometimes I feel like I'm not getting anywhere, and get frustrated and fed up. Like pills, don't give up on it, or the therapist you're with, too easily.

I think depression is a bit like HIV, it has a life of its own and will mutate and adapt to survive. Your depression will fight you as you try to kill it - use everything you can to beat it and stay on top.

I hope we both feel better soon!

Matt.

[thunter34]

I appreciate all of your responses. I suppose that starting this thread is a cry for help, especially after a few friends of mine have had enough of my moods. One of my closest friends told me she will no longer beg me to go out nor comfort me because I need to snap out of it. I've treated her like total trash at times and she has put up with my anti-social and manic-depressive moods for a couple of years now and just recently she told me that she will no longer help me or beg me until I stop feeling sorry for myself and move on with my life. It was a real eye opener but I guess I needed to hear that, I was at a point where I would throw hissy fits and act like a baby in public.

I say, "Yes, I'm a crybaby and SO WHAT?" 

Sometimes life with HIV can get the best of us down.

The important thing is to try to continue to have Hope.

[Boo Radley]

The important thing is to try to continue to have Hope.

I have hope.

I'm struck by a sense of deja vu...

[dixieman]

Sadboy it is sad... and all the people I know whove just dwelled on their problems... are not longer here and I had many friends who fought till the end... and the disease took over but, they gave it their all... make the best of every moment... I am thankful.. I can see... I am thankful... I can hear... walk, talk, breath, etc... there is always someone who is not as fortunate as yourself... life is not fair... its a learning experience

[StrongGuy]

SadBoy, I think we all have experienced depression and self-destructive behavior at some point during our careers in hiv.   The first six months for me was every fleeting second of every day and night thinking about what has happened and what could happen.   I feel very similar to what Wes has stated and in the big picture of life,  we need to put all of this into perspective.

I would concur with what Eric and Wesley said. Sometimes you get in the muck of it and it gets a real mess. And it's not easy to just go out and "pick up" a new outlook. It takes time and I'd also suggest - if meds aren't your thing - talking it out. Talk therapy seemed useless to me at first, but I realized in retrospect how helpful it was.

It's a journey and it's not always easy but it can get better - even when you are convinced it never will...

Mike

[Miss Philicia]

***lolz***

Where's Jennifer Lopez?

[jivemiguel1]

WOW!  You guys have hit the nail on the head.  I wish my ex who is negative, could only understand my depression, mood swings and low self esteem.  I often wallow in self pity, not able to accept her approval, feeling that I'm just not good enough.  This disease will not kill me, it'll be all the other psychological issues that will probably do me in.  Thanks for your time.

[milker]

I say, "Yes, I'm a crybaby and SO WHAT?" 

Sometimes life with HIV can get the best of us down.

The important thing is to try to continue to have Hope.

[stratosphere]

Regardless of how good I may feel, I purposely remind myself to stop feeling "happy" because I do not deserve to.

Bullshit..  that's' a quitters attitude.  Now that i have your attention,  you are not alone.  Everyone of us at some point feels like we totally screwed the dog to get to this point where we are now.  But what's done is done.  Why should you continue to feel grief over something that happened 2 years ago or longer?  You can't change the past,  believe me,  if you could or if we all could I'm sure this forum would not exist.  And i would have bought the winning ticket to last week's powerball too and i would be filthy rich.  But anyway,  no need to beat yourself up over something that can never be reversed.  What you do need to do is move on and realize how good you really do have it compared to other people.  I know that sounds harsh,  but,  you know there are folks with this disease who don't have access to meds,  computers,  support groups,  etc.  And don't even mention the folks who fought this disease 25 years ago and lost.  Hang in there it will get better.  Your best days are still ahead of you.

Also,  i too saw that email/story that Wesley mentioned if its the same one about the girl that was hideously disfigured in a car accident.  Its been a couple of years since i saw that but its very powerful and life changing.  I would rather be me with hiv,  aids,  or whatever the case than that poor girl.  Every minute of her life must be pure hell. 

anyway hang in there and take care of yourself.
Things do have a way of getting better.   

[AustinWesley]

Sad Boy,

I'm reminded of that scene in Moonstruck where the one slaps the other and says "SNAP OUT OF IT!" ; )   So, you know that is what we all have to do.   

Talking about it is the first step, now TAKE some action!

Wesley

[bimazek]

my solution for everything is...



scroll down....





drum rolll....





my solution for everything is...



go to brazil

if you are depressed


go to brazil


if you are single go to brazil

if you are fat

go to brazil

if you are to old for love

go to brazil

they are not age ist



look on the bright side

u got family, finace security etc

[DanielMark]

Sorry you're having a bad time of it Sadboy, but at two years and counting this is not all that unusual. Just watch out for that self pity trap. It might make you do things that will kill you before HIV ever does.

You recognise the problem, now you only need to decide what to do about it.

You may need to squish around in it until you’re sick and tired of it before you can give yourself permission to move forward and get past whatever it is that’s causing you to nag yourself about not deserving to be happy. Pills I dare say won’t give you any answers. Exploring where that self defeating voice is coming from and why, will.

If your therapist isn’t helping you do that then you need to find a better one.

My 2 cents.

Daniel

[dtwpuck]

It's a problem I been facing for a very long time. I sometimes feel like I unconsciencely set myself up to be miserable or a failure since being diagnosed with HIV. Thing are going very well in many other aspects in my life including financial stability and family. At the end of the day I purposely remind myself that I have AIDS. Regardless of how good I may feel, I purposely remind myself to stop feeling "happy" because I do not deserve to.

I refuse to take anti-depressants because of side-effects issues I've had with many of them in the past and therapy is not working as well as I expected it to be. Is this part of the HIV positive package to self- destruct myself?

Hi Sadboy...

You know, how you feel is normal.  You're not a bad person because of it either.  Many of us, including myself, spent the first few years of this diagnosis being terribly depressed. 

There are two telling things I wanted to address:

I purposely remind myself to stop feeling "happy" because I do not deserve to.

Everyone deserves to be happy.  There isn't some magical mystical abacus in the sky keeping track of who deserves happiness and who doesn't.  You can choose to make yourself miserable by following this path.  I guarantee you will be successful.  Or, you can choose to accept the fact that it is possible to be happy even when you have this sucky disease.

All propaganda and social programming to the contrary, there is no moral implication to this disease.  Maybe you feel like a bad person.  Perhaps you should start considering whether you would feel this way without the disease.  Look at yourself and ask, "what have I done that's so bad?"...  can you forgive yourself?    When you do, you will be on the way.

Depression is hard.  It's very hard.  You have wrapped yourself up in a secure dark blanket and refuse to let go because the alternative is too scary.  But, sadboy, you can be happy and should be.  There is no magic pill, but based on your few comments here I would suggest the perfect place to start is to stop assuming that you don't deserve that happiness.

I refuse to take anti-depressants

I can relate to this.  I never did.  I suffered too.  Here's a possible alternative... exercize... heavy exercize.  I had to choose to addict myself to it, but I can tell you that it works wonders for my moods when I am depressed.  I force myself into physical activity.  I get my brain to produce endorphins.  There is a reason why people who workout a lot are generally happy.



I read your posting and felt so much familiarity.  My heart really does go out to you.   All the best,
Scott

[stratosphere]

I can relate to this.  I never did.  I suffered too.  Here's a possible alternative... exercize... heavy exercize.  I had to choose to addict myself to it, but I can tell you that it works wonders for my moods when I am depressed.  I force myself into physical activity.  I get my brain to produce endorphins.  There is a reason why people who workout a lot are generally happy.

BINGO!  Working out is perhaps the best thing you can do aside from eating healthy and abstaining from destructive behaviour.  Not only will you feel better but your overall health should be better and will look great as well! 

Cheers   

[SASA39]

And what if your mind is clear , but body won` listen , when you live in a country where they perform a 5 lumbal punctures in a row just because of a poor quality equipment............and you adore your chlidren , and feel that you have betrayed them , because they are so innocent..............how do you cope that.........
How do you cope a feeling that you have seen your father , and mother ill of cancer , vomiting , diminishing, ............and knowing that that`s waiting for you some day.............
I`m not a surender , have a very tough life ( but this is not my thread ) , but I do not know how to reverse this process..........feel like a Grim Reaper is breathin my back ,just standing and waiting, like a blindfolded guy looking for a bulb switch............or stumbling across the wood in a dark foggy night.
Any thoughts