Open relationships

[chemistry001]

How does one approach the subject with a partner?
Ive been with my partner for 2 1/2 years now and he is not a very sexual person, where as i am.
Before i found out i was poz it had been about 5 months since we last had intercourse, we have had the odd fumble but nothing to write home about and its driving me mad. We have spoken about the lack of bedroom activity in the relationship but it does not seem to bother him at all.
My problem is that i think i want to have an open relationship as nothing has changed since our chat. I love him very much and don't want to end things but there is a side to me that needs to be fullfilled.
I don't know how too approach this tricky situation as I'm 90%sure he will flip.
Has anyone had this kind of situation before and what did they do.
The other spanner in the works is that now I'm poz and he is neg there is the scare factor on both sides.

Confused and frustrated

Paul xXx

[thunter34]

Rut Ro, Raggy !



(Sorry...that isn't very helpful, is it?  But that's all that comes to mind at the moment.)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[chemistry001]

Not helpful, but bloody funny 

[bear60]

Dear Paul....
Oh those boys.  Tim is on a high today and well he should be.!!
You sound a lot like me, honestly.  I make plans and think a lot about all kinds of things but rarely ever discuss these thoughts or plans with my partner.  Big mistake. Finally we went to a couples counselor ( like marriage counseling only this is for gay couples).  I learned a bunch of stuff, primarily that I was not able to make him change and that I had to accept him like he is or get out of the relationship. But the bottom line was clear: if you dont communicate with your partner and hug him and tell him whats bothering you, then how is he to know you have a problem.  Be tactful and ask him to sit down with you and talk to him about this....  perhaps yoiu can avoid having to go the open relationship route.  I hear make up sex is good.

[Jerry71]

Paul I met Brad back in October and things were great at first and then I decided that we just become friends. Thing is though we are both positive and he is somewhat like you wanted sex most all the time. I was the opposite.  So we have decided that we are going to see other people and still remain friends.

[thunter34]

Seriously...

I think before you get into the 'Open Relationship' discussion, I would revisit the more general 'Sexual Issues:  Lack of Activity Meets New Status Hurdles, Etc' discussion.  I would just make sure to give this new go-round more gravity in tone, more 'we really need to address this right here and now' weight.  If the 'open' thing is in your mind, I would at least give the other discussion another go to give this a prelude...lay the foundation.

Just a thought.  Those open situations are often fraught with peril.

Tim

UPDATED TO SAY:  It has been my experience that the relationships that start out this way (as open) tend to be more successful than the ones that start out monogamous and then morph into this.  I think Bear60 has nailed it pretty well.  Hmmm....guess that's kind of an apt metaphor for this topic, eh?

[David_CA]

I've never liked the term "open relationship" as it it implies sort of a free-for-all for those involved.  As a couple, you should know what's going on with each other.  I see nothing wrong with trying a 3-way or with another couple.  It can kind of ease your BF into the idea.  Something like a hot tub is always a good way of bringing up the subject when there's somebody you're BOTH interested in (or can both become interested in)  and want to be casual about it.

I always think it's best to start out a relationship 1-on-1 only.  It can then develop how the individuals want it to.  I don't think our "playing around together" has hurt my hubby's and my relationship at all.  To the contrary, it's brought a lot more fun and excitement into it without hurt or jealousy.  There just has to be an understanding and some ground rules.  Good luck.

David

[bocker3]

So, I have to agree and want to reiterate that the important thing here is to communicate, communicate, communicate.......  I also think that a "discussion" of this magnitude (given that you are 90% sure he will flip) might warrant some outside help.  My partner and I have did some couples therapy about 11 years ago and have recently started again.  Why??  Many reasons, but primarily to learn to better communicate.  It's been wonderful this time (last time was good too, but we've grown since then).
We had an "unspoken" open relationship for the first 15 years -- it worked, but I think we were lucky there.  Unfortunately, I ended up positive and he remains negative (I KNOW we were lucky there).  Sex is loaded with issues for me -- I want it all the time, but am not good about talking with him about it -- and he's the same way.  We are struggling through this now -- it was always difficult for us, but now we have an added ingredient of Fear due to our statuses.  Although honestly, it's more my fear than his.  At any rate -- I didn't mean to talk about me so much -- my advice is to be honest and open --- but first make sure that the discussion will be one where you both hear the other -- sometimes best done with a professional to help facilitate.  Feel free to PM me if you want to further discuss -- it seems that we have some similarities.

Mike

[thunter34]

Wow...that's interesting, David!  I've always witnessed the opposite of that.  There weren't as many trust issues if it started out as 'open'.  

And I almost always HATED getting myself involved with that kind of scenario.  

All those grand assurances of, 'Oh, yes!  Everything's completely comfortable!  We're ok with anything!  Relax and enjoy!'  quickly morphed into murmurs and sideways glances between the couple, usually with one of them making an awkward exit from the room.  

This was followed by something along the lines of:  'You were'nt supposed to lick his ankles!' or some other grief.

*sigh*  No Thanks.

NOTE:  Take notice of the 'amost always' part.  I have had two- count 'em: 2-  of these dealies that were all that and a red Gucci handbag.

[bear60]

Tim...Interesting comment.  The licking the ankles really shook me up! But seriously.......I have seen couples survive this open relationship thing.  What I have seen that never works is when they decide to bring in a third party to live together.  There are all kinds of open relationships I suppose. 
I have a question for Paul:  who is more affected by the HIV issue...you or him.  Who is having a harder time with it.?

[David_CA]

All those grand assurances of, 'Oh, yes!  Everything's completely comfortable!  We're ok with anything!  Relax and enjoy!'

We'll tell you the same thing, and mean it!   

[Alain]

Paul,

Have been there myself and It is so hard having what I call those one way conversations.

Obviously you have a need to be look after and he is fine.

If you really love him like you said, I would invest more time and energy on this one, trying to get your point across.

Talking about open relationship will not only make him flip and feel like a threat, but it might also imply to him to a degree that, since you are thinking and talking about it, you are already at that point wanting to act on it.

If he really wants you in his life, he is going to have to talk. The difference is how about you guys are going to do that, and couple therapy might help you on that front.

On a personal note, it did not saved my intimate relationship with my partner, but reinforced both our friendship and respect for one another.

I have yet to see any open relationship that has been working the way it was intended too. As long as people are having to deal with life issues, namely health, money, work or just their state of mind at this particular moment, they are only human getting on with life evolving and growing, and that in itself, leave room for a lot of interpretation.

And that doesn't even addressed the issue of you being poz and him negative, which in my views is complex enough.

Good luck. 

[allopathicholistic]

So, I have to agree and want to reiterate that the important thing here is to communicate, communicate, communicate.......

Yeah. Communicate. Say "Please _______for me BEFORE I LOSE MY MIND!!!" (Fill in the blank XXX LOL)...   

Seriously though, I am sending you both well-wishes for simple solutions maybe-  but certainly I wish you the best .... It sounds a little complicated

[Buckmark]

Hi Paul,

The other folks here have provided some pretty sage advice.  Not sure I can add
too much, but here's the way I see it.

First thing you have to work on is communication.  You have to find a way to discuss
these kinds of difficult issues with your partner, as in all likelihood there will be other
difficult issues you two will need to discuss in the future.  If you are having trouble
having the conversation, some outside help like a couples counseling could be a big
help.  Sex is one of the most difficult subjects to talk about, I think.  I also think
bear60 was absolutely correct in that you cannot make another person change --
they may change, or they may not.  You have to accept them as they are, or get
out of the relationship.

If you do decide to go the route of an open relationship, it seems to be you will
really need those good communication skills.  I'm not expert on open relationships
by any means, or even closed ones, but it seems to me an open one would require
a lot of communication to understand what such a relationship would mean to each
of you (what activities are allows, what aren't, how often, etc.).   An open relationship
strikes me as extremely difficult to manage.   But, having spent most of my life single,
I'm hardly an expert at relationships -- closed or open.

A very wise friend once said to me that the conversation that you are avoiding because
it makes you uncomfortable is likely the one that you really need to have.

Regards,

Henry

[poet]

Anal retentive now posts:


Ive been with my partner for 2 1/2 years now and he is not a very sexual person, where as i am.

Okay, my first question for you to ponder is what was it like between the two of you 2 1/2 years ago, in other words, has your sex life, as is usually true for gay couples, gone downwards or is it simply that you always were on different poles, so to speak, about how much sex was enough?


Before i found out i was poz it had been about 5 months since we last had intercourse,

Okay, so was there communication back then?  You weren't then positive, so your being positive was not the wall between the two of you, right?

We have spoken about the lack of bedroom activity in the relationship but it does not seem to bother him at all.

Okay, what exactly did he say?  Did he seem to get that it was a problem for you?  Did he try to close down the communication and/or the subject as in 'case closed?'


My problem is that i think i want to have an open relationship as nothing has changed since our chat.

This has been covered above.  An 'open relationship' is a very, very complicated thing to have since it is founded on total communication between the two people involved and needs tweaking constantly, the rules which may have seemed reasonable at the start may not seem reasonable as things happen.

I love him very much and don't want to end things but there is a side to me that needs to be fullfilled.

Right, well that is why some of us made lot's of money offering 'massage' in NYC.  Any masseur or escort gets what he is hired for: to leave; to not ask questions; to provide as much service as requested, period.  My reason for injecting this is that it can be much, much simpler to seek what you need ONCE you have made your needs clear to your partner and he has registered it, outside of the relationship but without a formal agreement.  Some would call it cheating.  Some would call it preservation.

I don't know how too approach this tricky situation as I'm 90%sure he will flip.

Again, I would ask what he said when you hit him with the topic earlier. And WHY would he flip?  Does he 'get' it?  Does he understand the gap between the two of you?

Has anyone had this kind of situation before and what did they do.
The other spanner in the works is that now I'm poz and he is neg there is the scare factor on both sides.

Yes, and the pos/neg thing is bound to raise it's ugly head.  Is he afraid of sex?  Is he afraid of having sex, with you or anyone else?  Does he have a friend whom he might have talked to about this?  Win

Confused and frustrated

[Javicho]

Hi Paul,

we have the same situation w/my partner I want sex all the time and he is not in to. We do talk about this I make him understand that sex is important for me as much as he is. Been 3 years since no intercourse; we do play w/other guys and its helping but not the way I want so we just start a couples therapy couple of weeks a go and at least he is ok now every time I try to touch him or asking to give me a BJ. Before it was nothing so I think the therapy is helping a little but helping.

Talk to him and make sure he understands what is what you are looking for and try w/a third party allways helps too. If you want you can PM me and we can talk more we have a lot in common.

[Jeff64]

<< Something like a hot tub is always a good way of bringing up the subject when there's somebody you're BOTH interested in (or can both become interested in)  and want to be casual about it.>>


Woohoo, I am going to go fire up the hot tub right this very minute!
I could use a little more spice in my 16 year relationship...anyone wanna come by?? LOL

Jeff

[Eldon]

Hey Paul...

It is GOOD to hear from you. With this situation, there are a number of variables that exist when making a change in your relationship. True enough, there is a need to be fulfilled on your side of the relationship. However, this may cause some sort of distortion with your current standing in the relationship.

An open discussion with your partner is in order for this. He may agree or he may disagree with what you are asking. You may want to consider weighing your options with this. What could this create in your situation? How will you continue to maintain your balance in your relationship? How will this affect your situation overall?

Ultimately, it is your decision. I wish you the best with the choices that you will make.

"Don't Give Up, Don't Give In... Cause it is ALL within you to WIN!"

[aupointillimite]

I don't know how sexual you are... me, I'm ridiculously so.

I would definitely talk to him about it as soon as possible. 

In my life, I've never had, nor have I ever known an open relationship that actually worked.  To me, open relationships are a way of hopping lifeboats as the larger ship is sinking.

And by open relationship, I mean "we both are sleeping with other people" not "we have threesomes together." 

[MSPspud]

IMHO, I think open relationships are fine as long as both parties agree and there aren't any underlying esteem issues.  I do think it takes a few years to get to that point though because both have to trust that the other isn't going to leave over a little tail.  I've been in all sorts of arrangements and have observed many others.  It seems that long term successful relationships between men require a basic understanding and acceptance of human nature.   

[Amosboy]

I think there is a difference between real intimacy and sex...sometimes you are lucky to have both happen simultaneously.  I'm 10 years into a poz/neg relationship that I consider to be monogamous, though I struggle with that issue at times.  We have experienced ebbs and flows sexually over the years, however, I think there will always be those times.  Furthermore, I think it is natural (and common) that one or the other will be more wired on that sexual playing field.  I also think that monogamy is a "learned phenomenon", that it isn't quite natural for men.  In my fantasy world, I am a complete whore, fucking anybody whom I am attracted to.  In my drunken fantasy world, I am a complete whore, getting fucked by anybody whom I am attracted to.  The real decision for you should be based on reality.  That reality may mean you may be forced to choose between your sexual needs or your intimacy needs.  I think it is a matter of choosing to be monogamous or not, and if it is causing real problems in your life, then the only choice is to communicate about it.

If you don't communicate about it, then you risk feeling resentment towards an unwilling sexual partner.  That isn't fair to either of you.  And give some real consideration to understanding the difference between sex and intimacy.  Obviously, I have given this much thought myself, as I have allowed myself to dance around the fires of purely carnal attraction for years without getting too burned.  For me, it has been a real commitment to the relationship, as something more important than my immediate sexual needs. 

I do agree with aupointillimite when he states:

"In my life, I've never had, nor have I ever known an open relationship that actually worked.  To me, open relationships are a way of hopping lifeboats as the larger ship is sinking."

I've been known to push the limits of my own sexual boundaries within my current relationship by swapping...how should I say..."somewhat revealing pictures of myself" with complete strangers.  I've accepted the fact that I am a big flirt and so has by boyfriend, though I am all talk and no do.  There are certain risks involved, obviously.  You may find that your confession my bear some repercussions:  He may react with unjust paranoia or suffer from ongoing trust issues.  It's a tricky and slippery slope but I say you owe to yourself to be happy and honest.  Ultimately, I think you will never be 100% sure about any decision that is emotionally based, so you have to weigh the pros and cons.

The bottom line is this:  Try to figure out what is truly important to you and be good and damn sure you are ready for the consequences.

If you really care about him and want to have a future together, talk it out.  Set some ground rules and try your best to play fair, whatever you both decide is acceptable.  Unfortunately, I think one party will always feel more insecure about the issue than the other.

As others have pointed out to me (on this very forum) when I have struggled with this very issue, "Is a ten second orgasm, worth risking a ten year relationship over?"

- I think I might should take some of my own advice here and re-read this on occasion -

- I could stand to have a good talking to myself, from time to time, especially with all of the hot men on this
  site    you know who you are -

GOOD LUCK and I HOPE YOU FIND THE RIGHT WORDS TO SPEAK FROM YOUR HEART 

Amosboy

[Iggy]

.

[poet]

As far as I am concerned, Iggy has nailed the topic with the answers anyone would need to have. Win

[chemistry001]

Once again you guys have blown me away with your advice, thank you all from the bottom of my heart for what you have written. I've read and reflected on each post and taken in every key strike you have made.

Communication is the first point of call, Ive talked about the lack of intimacy with him before but will make the conversation rear its ugly head once more and keep it going until some headway is made.
I don't want to give up a lifetime of love with him for a random session with someone, so must keep that in mind when I'm being hit on by guys (I'm also a terrible flirt).
The line of going to a councilor is one to look into as there are many new hurdles in the relationship that would be good to talk over with someone.

Once again thank you all

Paul xXx