Angered to tears........

[Keisha]

Hi again,

To all those of you issuing words of support and kindness, again, thank you.

Bailey, thank you for addressing my concerns.  Perhaps the new thread that you write will help clarify what you meant and clear up any and all confusion surrounding your words.  I took what you said "literally" simply because you used the term "literally" when you stated something like "fuck them, literally, condoms or not, if they don't get it from you they will get it from someone else".  I know that this is not a direct quote and that it is being stated without the full content of your post.  However, I always assume that a person means something to be taken "literally" when they use the word "literally" in that very sentence.  Perhaps you were being sarcastic, or even making an attempt at being somehow ironic, but my brother and I took your words literally.

For the record, I agree that HIV positive people do not bear the sole responsibility for the sexual health of others.  I believe everyone has a personal responsibility to use condoms.  I do believe that people who are HIV positive should be socially responsible, even when the other party is not acting in a personally responsible way.  Every person who gets this infection faces a very difficult and expensive illness.  Those who are not insured better hope that their state has adequate ADAP funding.  The other month three people died while on the ADAP wait list in the United States.  Perhaps the number was higher, but the number I most recently read was three.  Healthcare is not universal in the U.S. and in many nations.  Until we have a cure, the only real cure is prevention.

I do not believe in criminalizing HIV positive people.  I don't think jailing people is the answer.  I think that eduacation and prevention is.  However, I think that everyone needs to take part in preventing the spread of this disease.  HIV positive people need to understand that newly infected people will be competing for ADAP funds in the future.  The money may not always be there with the high cost of the war in Iraq and the misspending of the Bush administration.  It may very well be in the best interest of everyone to prevent further infections.

We are all in this together.  We need to look out not only for ourselves but for others as well.

Thanks again.

Keisha

[Miss Philicia]

The point, or at least I thought, of reporting the guy was to stop TEN OTHER people from becoming infective.

Guess that doesn't matter.

[thunter34]

Take care of yourselves and each other as well.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mike89406]

Healthcare is not universal in the U.S. and in many nations.  Until we have a cure, the only real cure is prevention.

I do not believe in criminalizing HIV positive people.  I don't think jailing people is the answer.  I think that eduacation and prevention is.  However, I think that everyone needs to take part in preventing the spread of this disease.  HIV positive people need to understand that newly infected people will be competing for ADAP funds in the future.  The money may not always be there with the high cost of the war in Iraq and the misspending of the Bush administration.  It may very well be in the best interest of everyone to prevent further infections.

We are all in this together.  We need to look out not only for ourselves but for others as well.

Thanks again.

Keisha
[/quote]

First off theres no guarantee for a cure for now a chronic condition similiar to diabetes if you will. I given up magic or miraculous hope so I can live as healthy as possible and not relying totally on Meds. My ID nurse told me after I was diagnosed its my "disease/condition therefore take it by the horns like a bull" and the chances I could live longer/healthier in my mind is to heed that advice. Instead of having false security etc.

Secondly not to misunderstand but there is some sorta of reporting system to the Public Heath Dept. which also reports
there figures to the CDC. The US is currently still struggling with accurate numbers of POZ people in the States/US
there was a esimted 25% of the  gay pop in the US that was to believed to be POZ and didn't know it.

No one says to have the man arrested or press charges but if the person is counted as correct data in the system. Another thing is if there is not an accurate count of POZ people the likelyhood of you;re brother getting Ryan White funds so he can take meds if need be, other medical care can be decreased, and maybe have to be put on long list when he may or may not need treatment right away.

These organizations are funded only by proper demographic data, and justification of this data to state and federal gov's.

Point being that you're looking out for you're brother well this is a less invasive way and easier to do witout any procedings etc.. and you're could have better health care if the system is correct. Is it the data really correct? probably not but at least you're doing you're part by performing the aforementioned.

[AlanBama]

Keisha,

Welcome and best of luck to your brother!  He is lucky to have you.

hugs,

Alan (who knows that Dingo's bark is worse than his bite!   I love him very much)

[Central79]

Dear Keisha

I want to add my voice to the many here who've expressed shock and sorrow about what your brother has experienced and how it has affected you.

My first sexual experience was like your brother's. I met a guy and when he didn't hand me a condom and pulled me into him I didn't stop and say "wait". I remember the fear when I went to get tested, and swore to myself that if I came back negative I would always wear a condom. I came back negative. I never had unprotected sex again, except in a long-term monogamous relationship, but caught it 7 years later through oral sex. I thought I had all my bases covered, but I didn't.

When I was diagnosed a little over a year ago I was so angry - with myself mostly, but also with the guy who infected me. Even though we'd had safer sex - I felt like he should've disclosed or just not hit on me. I can only imagine what your brother is going through when the action of the other guy feels like an assault on him. Deliberate. Cold. Cruel.

I guess the most important realisation for me, which I hope your brother will come to eventually, and which I only got from reading posts on this site and talking to tons of people, negative and positive, is that being a human being is about being caught between two things: wanting things to be better, or even perfect; and being fallable. Human failing can only cause pain given our nature to want things to be always better than they are. Since I've been infected, I've always disclosed - I think this has been the product of the randomness of my infection and the "extended" effect it's had on my life. Of course the biggest effect is has on anybody's life is to threaten their health, but my infection also changed my career choices (I was going to be a surgeon) and I get reminded of my status every time I put a needle in a patient. That's all I mean by extended. But I've always been scared about disclosing and have, at times, rehersed arguements in my head for not disclosing - "I'm having safe sex, what are the chances?", "his health is his responsibility", etc. But the truth is I have this knowledge, and it's down to me to act appropriately given my experience and minimise risk of transmisssion. For me, this means disclosure. I understand now though, why people can't disclose - I've seen other decent guys struggle with it and fail.

So I now think it's okay not to disclose so long as you're "safer". Acknowledging your own, and other people's weakness, is hard. It's easier to be prescriptive and make it illegal, or to say that somehow a group of people are different from "us". Anybody who is HIV+ experiences this, regardless of how they behave with regard to disclosure. Your brother (and you) have a further leap to make, as the guy who infected him didn't disclose, or act appropriately to protect other people. It's hard to put yourself in the head of somebody like that, acknowledge that he may have been afraid, angry, self-destructive and hating the world around him to the point of taking a chance on your brother's health. But I think it's somewhere you have to go if you're going to get over this and move on. Whether or not you get this person arrested doesn't change that - and in my opinion he probably needs a psychiatrist more than a jail cell.

I think some of the harder, harsher comments in this thread may come from something similar. A feeling of vulnerability that is hard for people to acknowledge and makes people feel angry, or cynical instead. I hope you can see past it and help your brother reach for the bright future that's his.

Matt.

[koi1]

Beautifully said Matt,

I just hope those people kept there cynical, opinions to themselves and didn't do more damage by e-mailing her. By the same token others may have e-mailed her with support. I think Keisha still has a naivitee about her that is refreshing as all she was stating was her and her brother's reaction to a disturbing post, which was at best thoughtless. By her naivite I mean giving out her e-maill address, but in a sense she seems to be a put her money where her mouth is sort of peson. I think she handled the attacks quite well. Keisha, if you are reading this, I am sorry if the word naive does not describe you. You are are an inspiration. Like Iva said many people are jealous of having a sister like you who is there fighting with your brother.


Roberto

[thunter34]

Well, I can vouch that any opinions I have had on this subject have been stated right out here in the open.  I can also state that I am not particularly cynical about my HIV condition.  And not angry toward whoever I got it from.  Any cynicism or anger I have surrounding HIV/AIDS would be directed either toward the pollitical or economic side of this...how government and / or pharma companies address the issue.  I'm also not jealous of the family support aspect.  I have the same from family and friends. 

I think it is beneficial to once again repeat the words of one of the Mod Squad on here:  to consent to have unprotected sex with another person is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted disease.

Much like keisha consented (at least twice in this thread) to having people contact her personally.  And she certainly made no reservations about expressing her own opinions.  So if people took her up on her offer, are they also more at fault for that exchange now, too?


MODIFIED TO SAY:  Yes, sometimes some people make less than stellar comments (although I still don't necessarily think the one in question is an example of that), but some people also go on and on and on and on and on and on trying to blow such comments out of all proportion.

[Miss Philicia]

Some people are being VERY disingenuous here.  Any objections found within the  thread's initial posting were relating to the act of calling out/flame baiting another board member.  Not to mention this makes about the third thread in the last four days to do something like this, which obviously raises some OTHER suspicions.

[AustinWesley]

The point, or at least I thought, of reporting the guy was to stop TEN OTHER people from becoming infective.

Guess that doesn't matter.

I agree with your point Philly.   I neglected to mention I did turn him into the health department and they are fairly relentless here.   Under the section description on the form I simply put sociopath.   They ask for a secondary contact and I gave his crazy friend's name and number too.  I have to admit I felt some little sense of joy out of that.    While reporting is anonymous and they don't disclose the information on the forms I have no doubt he knew who'd given his name to the health department.

I've moved past that rage and anger, but seeing this person in public denying he's positive and drinking and drugging it up or whatever he does at the clubs several nights a week just sickens me.   It's hard to sit back and just say well, that person he's with is responsible for their own health etc. when I know he's a liar and sociopath.  

But, perhaps that's why I don't go out much.    I also don't need anyone to remind me I have to take a portion of the responsibility of becoming positive.  I know that, and it really enrages me when people say that without knowing what the facts are.    

Anyways, I've gotten off track, but I guess my point was to let Keisha and her brother know I understand thier anger and sense of injustice.      

[Sdgirl]

If ANY OF you think this thread is about Keisha's brother then I have some great beach front property for sale in New Orleans at a really great price!  LMAO

[bear60]

Insert Quote
If ANY OF you think this thread is about Keisha's brother then I have some great beach front property for sale at a great price in New Orleans at a really great price!  LMAO
..................
once again SDGirl makes my day. 

[David_CA]

Some posters in this thread must have had something really happen in their lives.  One in particular hasn't posted in months, until recently, and since the return, the posts have ALL been really negative and just plain hateful.  Guys, if you don't KNOW that Keisha and her brother aren't legit, why even bother to post?  Are you trying to enlighten the rest of us to the fact that you don't think the originator's post is legit, are you trying to start a pissing match between members, or are you just having a bad day.  Really, you DON'T have to state the same hateful crap over and over.  That's what new, and potential new, members read.  I know if I hadn't been so desperate for some sort of support when I was first diagnosed, I wouldn't have become a member.  There was bickering back and forth about things unrelated to HIV at all.  It didn't appear to be a supportive place.  Posts like some of these bring back those memories.

[skeebo1969]

   David... speak the truth!!!   Amen brother!!

   Keisha ignore them! 

   SdGirl.... Have you received any pm's from the Eldon?  The one you fought so hard for...hmmm, last I heard he was asking forum members for money.   If it was not a quick rich scheme it was to help move from his mothers ...oh and the daddy's funeral..  The only thing in common was $500!  You should be ashamed SdGirl...

[Sdgirl]

Nope.......................No shame in my game, no shame at all!   

[DingoBoi]

What the fuck is wrong with all you people?

Quit the damn sniping at one another, and me,  and let this thread get back to what it should be about. 

It doesn't matter.  It just doesn't matter.

[Denver Toad]

Bingo Dingo

[Andy Velez]

Sniping has resumed here.   

I'm going to assume (and recommend) that if Keisha and her brother have something to say and/or need help a new thread will get started. I've sent her a PM to that effect.

I'll just trust that if there is help still needed related to anything discussed here that it will turn up in a new (and hopefully less acrimonious) thread.  I was very struck by David NC's remarks about when he came on to the site as newbie. Only because he was so in need of help at the time was he able to get past the battles going on at the time.

Please remember this is supposed to be a safe space where people can come for support and information. 

This thread is now locked.