POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: TheRoof on March 19, 2012, 12:22:06 am
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Once on occasion when I am just blowing off time. I go websites (gay sites) to look at guys. Many ask me the question do I "PnP".
I pass no judgement on people who experiment with different substances. (I have tried certain things in the past. Out of curiosity.) I was wondering is there a reason why for example methamphetamine TENDS to be the drug of choice? Rather than for example... benzos, or... opiates?
This thread is not about "what makes you high" or "what's better", but about the fact as I notice that Gay men tend to enjoy methamphetamine a lot more than other substances of pleasure. Why in your opinion is it this way?
Is it because it is relatively cheap to get?
Does HIV affect the brain in anyway in regards brain chemistry & dopamine?
Dopamine is the chemical in your brain that gives you pleasure.
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Most men get highly sexually aroused when high on meth, hence the appeal. Oddly I was one of the few who didn't want to have sex when I did that drug, so I never found it particularly interesting as a high.
As far as benzos and opiates -- those are downers. I don't think you want to have sex on those, you just want to do more of the drug and get higher. When I did heroin as a youngster I couldn't imagine having sex on it -- I was too busy vomiting every other hour.
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TheRoof,
You write a sweeping generalization that in my experience doesn't hold much water. What city are you writing about, anyway? Different drugs peak in popularity in different cities at different times.
In my opinion, the drugs gay men most prefer for having sex are alcohol, cigarettes, poppers, marijuana, cocaines, X, viagra/cialis, and to a lesser extent GHB and even less, meth.
PNP does not only refer to Meth by the way.
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yeah mecch,
here in Dallas there is a variety of drugs going on in the gay community, all of those you mentioned. Thankfully i've always been scared of the recreational drugs, except the Mary Jane and alcohol. The prescription drugs like opiates etc i've certainly taken, it don't take long to become addicted. I had major Jaw surgery and was on them for about a month. My brain was not happy at all when i stopped. Its still a struggle at times. Once your body gets a taste of the feeling, it always wants it. My Suggestion is not start if at all possible on any of these drugs. The recreational one can be easily avoided.
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Also, you might be on a cruising site that is "methy". If the site is filled with profiles mentioning PNP, then sure Meth is going to be a favorite drug for people who write PNP on their profile or ask you about PNP.
I think some members here can refer you to websites that give information about the whole experience of the METH phase of gay party life, if you are wondering why it is a "preferred drug" - over others... I remember one called tweaker.org its still up.
Meth is speed so produces a euphoric high - energy, confidence, and this converts to feeling sexy if thats the setting or if thats the goal for taking it. Hyper sexy.
I knew speed freaks who used speed for all sorts of other excessive living not sex. Meth today isn't just used for sex, its used for anything that speed addicts or speed users "need" speed to do. It's cheaper and lasts longer than coke, for the speed effect.
Some people have experienced and reported that it gives "confidence" in a sexual situation where otherwise someone might feel inhibited, insecure, or ashamed. So obviously thats another reason it might be the sex drug of choice - cheap, lasts a long time, increases libido and confidence and decreases inhibitions.
But I guess you know its a nasty drug so thats why you are curious why people might take it or prefer it.
There is a great website called http://www.erowid.org/ - which discusses lots of the different ways one can think about each drug and each trip on a certain drug. Since you say you are not here to judge, then that's the site for you!
Also, finally, I don't know the answer to your interesting question about HIV and the brain and dopamine. You seem to be asking - do HIV+ people have some special relationship to meth because meth acts on dopamine, so is there a dopamine situation in the brains of HIV+ people that meth use fixes.
I really don't think thats the way into the question. Activists about "meth abuse" go in the other direction rather often::: HIV- people fall in love with the meth high, get addicted and make mistakes that could lead to HIV infection.
I think there is academic scientific research to the question of dopamine issues and depression, obsessive compulsion, risk taking, and every different kind of drug use, etc etc, and therefore issues like that and HIV transmission, or studying issues like that post HIV infection and modes of living, quality of life, treatment adherences, etc etc.
But I haven't ever seen research that says an HIV infection per se produces a unpleasant dopamine regulation in the brain that was not present before infection. Have you???
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Thanks, mecch for the information.
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Personally speaking, when I did meth I wanted to sit on a fire hydrant. It was one hell of a sex drug for me but it lasts too damn long the the crash is horrid!
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Personally speaking, when I did meth I wanted to sit on a fire hydrant. It was one hell of a sex drug for me but it lasts too damn long the the crash is horrid!
Now Drew. You know you can't tease us like this. Links to visuals of your sex-capades. I'm sure you've got some on XTube :P
Thanks, mecch for the information.
It's not like this information wasn't readily available ::)
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hiv gave me extreme fatigue. The fatigue is the reason that I went to get tested AGAIN & I was poz. So the fatigue came before the mental shock/knowledge of infection & before medications. The fatigue of infection, worry over infection, may be a reason that men use meth.
I have been on Concerta (prescription speed) for several years in order to be able to function. hugs, deibster ;)
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CLARIFICATION: When you go to many gay sites and PNP is listed, men are looking for sex while high on CRYSTAL METH. This is NO generalization, this is a known fact to most gay men and guys who may frequent gay sex chat sites. PNP does not mean wanting to have sex while on marijuana or alcohol. This is no generalization, a known fact. When you see PNP posted on a profile, or someone tells you they are interested in PNP....they want to get high on METH and have sex. For someone to say this is a generalization, this person is not well aware of the current young gay culture. PNP is a code for crystal meth and very common in the world of gay men getting high on METH. It's no judgement just a fact.
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This thread is not about "what makes you high" or "what's better", but about the fact as I notice that Gay men tend to enjoy methamphetamine a lot more than other substances of pleasure. Why in your opinion is it this way?
ATL, this is a generalization by the OP. Gay men do not prefer or enjoy meth more than other drugs.
You are correct, however, (and I said the same thing). When you are dealing SPECIFICALLY with PNP people, then obviously Meth is popular.
When you see PNP posted on a profile, or someone tells you they are interested in PNP....they want to get high on METH and have sex.
duh. of course.
And in my real experience PNP does not mean just meth. I cruise NY (and London and Paris, where that term is less used by the way) and people in their 40's who ask if you want to party are offering and doing and enjoying other drugs besides meth, my dear. In Switzerland, its coke, x, and GHB. And poppers and cigarettes and alcohol more than anything else.
I guess you have a lock on the youth scene. But MOST of any group is NOT using meth. Most of any subset of gay men does not prefer or enjoy that drug. The drugs of choice are alcohol, poppers, etc.
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ATL, this is a generalization by the OP. Gay men do not prefer or enjoy meth more than other drugs.
You are correct, however, (and I said the same thing). When you are dealing SPECIFICALLY with PNP people, then obviously Meth is popular.
duh. of course.
And in my real experience PNP does not mean just meth. I cruise NY (and London and Paris, where that term is less used by the way) and people in their 40's who ask if you want to party are offering and doing and enjoying other drugs besides meth, my dear. In Switzerland, its coke, x, and GHB. And poppers and cigarettes and alcohol more than anything else.
I guess you have a lock on the youth scene. But MOST of any group is NOT using meth. Most of any subset of gay men does not prefer or enjoy that drug. The drugs of choice are alcohol, poppers, etc.
Sorry Mech, but PNP is almost exclusive to meth. Has been for years.
Poppers? Pot? Considered below the radar.
Because of the very thing that make meth addictive to gay guys.
A) It gives euphoria.
B) HUGE sex drive
C) Also HUGE (pardon the pun) problem maintaining an erection.
Thus creating a subset of voracious, insatiable power-bottoms with no outlet but to be fucked, and repeatedly, and to exhaustion, by multiple tops.
Of COURSE this leads to an increase in HIV. I mean really? No one thought this shit out?
So YES to the OP. Among the MSM community, meth is a pretty straightforward gateway to HIV infection.
People are really debating/discussing this?
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Duh I get that PNP refers to meth.
Obviously I seem to have interpreted the sentences I just pasted above a different way then you. I thought the OP was wondering if gay men in general prefer meth as a sex drug. I thought he was on a PNP filled cruise site and was extrapolating to gay men in general.
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CLARIFICATION: When you go to many gay sites and PNP is listed, men are looking for sex while high on CRYSTAL METH. This is NO generalization, this is a known fact to most gay men and guys who may frequent gay sex chat sites.
I didn't know PNP was exclusively meth. I assumed it was drugs including meth, ecstasy, cocaine, snorting Ritalin, Viagra, poppers, etc. I knew PNP did not included opiates, alcohol, benzos, barbiturates, marijuana or hallucinogens but I didn't know PNP=meth. We don't have a large gay community in Greensboro and maybe that is why I don't see a lot of meth use when I work in the emergency department.
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I didn't know PNP was exclusively meth. I assumed it was drugs including meth, ecstasy, cocaine, snorting Ritalin, Viagra, poppers, etc. I knew PNP did not included opiates, alcohol, benzos, barbiturates, marijuana or hallucinogens but I didn't know PNP=meth. We don't have a large gay community in Greensboro and maybe that is why I don't see a lot of meth use when I work in the emergency department.
In my experience, personally, 99% of the time when a dude wants to PNP, he is talking about "Tina" - Meth.
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I despise tina & gina queens, not only do I not want to even know them, I don't want them in my house, my vehicle, or my presence, or anyone else who does that shit :o
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CLARIFICATION: When you go to many gay sites and PNP is listed, men are looking for sex while high on CRYSTAL METH. This is NO generalization, this is a known fact to most gay men and guys who may frequent gay sex chat sites. PNP does not mean wanting to have sex while on marijuana or alcohol. This is no generalization, a known fact. When you see PNP posted on a profile, or someone tells you they are interested in PNP....they want to get high on METH and have sex. For someone to say this is a generalization, this person is not well aware of the current young gay culture. PNP is a code for crystal meth and very common in the world of gay men getting high on METH. It's no judgement just a fact.
Exactly. I'm not sure why meechella stated otherwise. PNP definitely means getting jacked up on meth, not getting together for vodka gimlets.
As usual on this board it would be nice that if people don't have direct experience with a subject they'd refrain from pontificating. But folks feel like they need to shit in every corner of the room I guess.
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Miss P I've tried it all my dear. And in my long years have long times with many an addict as well if you need cred for the dark side.
I explained what I misunderstood about the OP's first post. I thought he was on a site such as Manhunt, where a number of guys want PNP.
But then he asked
"This thread is not about "what makes you high" or "what's better", but about the fact as I notice that Gay men tend to enjoy methamphetamine a lot more than other substances of pleasure. Why in your opinion is it this way?"
So I assumed he meant gay men in general. That's all. No use in bickering with my comments. Its just my opinion that gay men in general do not enjoy meth "a lot more than other substances". And obviously gay men who DO like PNP like meth. But, as others have mentioned, in some parts of the world, today, 2012, PNP does not automatically mean Meth. Voila. I fucked around NYC in Dec and January and hookups with PNP in their profiles were NOT exclusively focused on meth.
Geez. Just explaining my experience.
If the OP wasn't extrapolating to gay men in general, then fine.
Long as everyone knows that gay men in general are not Meth freaks and meth is hardly the drug of choice across the gay cruising scene, and even the harder, partying cruising scene. Thats the only point I was making and stand by it.
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And to clarify, I have been clean and sober for more than 4 years. Would not touch that shit again.
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Good 4 u drewm ;) drug addiction isn't really where it's at, especially w/ teh AIDS it's bad enough trying to adhere to the AVRs for some , and as most all of you know that tina/gina shit really dose a number on your immune system ;)
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TheRoof,
You write a sweeping generalization that in my experience doesn't hold much water. What city are you writing about, anyway? Different drugs peak in popularity in different cities at different times.
In my opinion, the drugs gay men most prefer for having sex are alcohol, cigarettes, poppers, marijuana, cocaines, X, viagra/cialis, and to a lesser extent GHB and even less, meth.
PNP does not only refer to Meth by the way.
Mecch, thank you for replying. I am not saying that ALL HIV Positive Men Do Methamphetamine. -- but you are right. I am sure that men prefer marijuana, alcohol, cigarettes, poppers to Methamphetamine.
I guess I am specifically talking about the United States. - It's usually very "subtle" the way people mention it.
Here is a youtube video, I watched a few months back. It's interesting to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuApeL9IX-o
I am not saying other drugs are used, (which I am sure they are) all though I notice that Methamphetime tends to be the choice out of "hardcore" drugs. (aka from heroin, morphine, LSD and so on)
Anyway, I apologize If I offended anyone.
There is this interesting fact my HIV doctor told me about.
He told me that opiates and marijuanna have shown studies not to depress the immune system significantly. (In regards to CD4 Cells)
All though Methamphetamine has been shown to lower the function of your immune system correlated to blood cells. (For HIV patients) -- I thought that was interesting that he said that.
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I think your basic question was why do people like it so much. Only by extension why is it favored over other drugs or not, by a paticular group.
I think you got some good answers about why people into taking drugs with sex use meth as the drug.
That http://www.erowid.org/ site I sent is the best one I know that allows people to post positive and negative experiences on drugs.
Remember that the drugs you put into "hardcore" are not what others would put there. Any drug can be "hardcore" - which I guess means potentially damaging to body, or mind, or personal integrity - job, social, family. It all depends how one takes them and if one is or isn't addictive to the particular drug.
Cigarettes are obviously one of the most destructive to bodies but you dont lose your job or your mind if you're a chain smoker, usually.
I had a heroine addicted bf and I would use it every now and then and didn't think it was very interesting nor heavy as a drug (smoked or snorted here), and hardly "hardcore" for my personal experience. But it was hardcore for him. I had another bf who used all the "party" drugs or what we used to quaintly call designer drugs, which he loved and didn't consider "hard" (in fact image of the drug was important for him and his buddies) but I experienced it as rather hard since he'd be still high, or a zombie, Sunday evening then a basketcase on Monday and Tuesday and be looking forward by Wednesday to the drugs for Thursday to Saturday. Worked sufferred. Lots of money was spent. etc
Best case scenario - find the drug that gives you a benefit without too much cost to mind, body, or social sphere. Not to mention the pocket book. Nor criminal possession.
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In my experience, seeing pnp in someone's online profile has almost always meant meth.
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Thus creating a subset of voracious, insatiable power-bottoms with no outlet but to be fucked, and repeatedly, and to exhaustion, by multiple tops.
Sounds like a night out at the old " Mine Shaft" in New York City, prior to it being closed.
http://www.colorsofleather.com/Lthr%20bars/Bars%202nd%20page/MN/Mineshaft%20NY.htm
Ray
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I just wonder how many people would not be positive if not for meth. My experience was you would put yourself in situations on meth that you would never had done without meth. Meth makes you (well most anyways) want to fuck everything in site (or even not in site). As with most ex-drug users, you still get the urges, but the reality is, you cant use these things anymore.
I dont know what more to say except meth has ruined a lot of lives.....
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Personally speaking, when I did meth I wanted to sit on a fire hydrant. It was one hell of a sex drug for me but it lasts too damn long the the crash is horrid!
I had a similar reaction, but I was more into going to a gay bathhouse with my partner and he had more of a sexual urge than I did. I was simply more than happy watching. The high on the crap can last literally for days and then you always want more. Coming down off the crap is a major crash. Really, it's all not worth it and a waste of time.