Author Topic: Taken With Food... (before, after?) (Read 15376 times)

phenethylamine · « **on:** March 14, 2015, 04:33:09 pm »

First time posting!!

Just started on Complera this month...
I'm told it absorbs best with a full meal (400+ Calories).
I can't remember if that means taking it before, or after a meal?
Should the food already be there, and digesting when taken... or is it ok to take it on a completely empty stomach and then start eating? (what I have been doing).
For some reason I assumed "take the pill with food" meant "take the pill then take food".. but now I'm wondering if they mean "take on full stomach" which makes more sense in retrospect.

Thanks, and sorry if this a stupid question lol...

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2015, 04:40:41 pm »

If something says to take it WITH food then it doesn't mean before, it means WITH. Now if by before you mean a few minutes I'm sure that doesn't make a difference, but longer than that is going to begin to defeat the purpose. If you need to err in one direction I'd eat my meal then take the pill -- I'm assuming you are not wanting people you are eating with to see the pill?

phenethylamine · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2015, 05:43:48 pm »

Yeah, I'd rather keep it discreet in social situations, so I left out "during" and limited question to before/after. Writing this out, I'm realizing it's probably a mistake to take pill before diner... even if I start eating right after... it will probably still take me 1 or 2 hours to finish diner... then I often need a high calorie desert if family happened to make low calorie diner... so it probably takes me a total of 3 hours to meet the calorie requirements. I will try taking it afterwards. I'll report if side effects improve.

Thanks

mecch · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2015, 05:48:11 pm »

Take it after you eat on a full stomach.

Now tell us where you live where people still sit down and eat for 1-2 hours! Bravo.

And where a 1-2 meal could still be less than 400 kcal. Double bravo!

phenethylamine · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2015, 09:54:17 pm »

Also, is there a timeframe on how fast I should eat?
Sometimes I worry that for example, If I eat 200 calories in one hour, and 200 calories the next hour, then take pill... the first 200calories are already digested out of my stomach into intestines... and it only counts as 200 at pill time. I'm having a hard time fitting the full 400 at once. Does this really matter, or am I way overthinking it?

I feel like I'm obsessing over trying to get 400cal and the pill together in my stomach at the same time, but one is small, and the other is big, and the timing doesn't match lol

mecch · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2015, 01:44:49 pm »

Would you care to share specifics of what constitutes a meal for you?
I'm having trouble picturing what is a 200kcal meal.
Also it remains a mystery why you cannot get 400kcal into your stomach at one sitting?
Is your stomach small? Is this about your culture and what people eat?
1 cup of plain rice is 200 Kcal.
1 boiled egg is 78 calories.
1 tablespoon of oil is about 100 kcal.
1 medium banana 100 kcal

mecch · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2015, 01:55:12 pm »

Im curious too about your pseudo: phenethylamine.

Are you trying to tell us something? I am wondering about anorexia... I know anorexics who use amphetamines and phenethylamines as part of the deal. Obviously I know nothing about you, just throwing that out there, out of concern. No judgement.

BKKKevin · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2015, 10:20:02 pm »

10 Oreos is 400 calories...

mecch · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2015, 12:17:25 am »

But is that a meal?

Perhaps we have a molly fan.

phenethylamine · « **Reply #9 on:** April 06, 2015, 10:39:20 pm »

lol mecch!
I am quite short/small build. So I guess my portion sizes would be smaller.
I also do take Vyvanse (lisdexamphetamine) in the morning and my appetite is often still suppressed by meal time. I tried taking the pill before (misunderstanding), middle (with), after (full stomach) and all the food did was decrease intensity of side effects but for a longer duration. So I ended up switching to Stribild, and seems much better so far. I still take it after meal (increases absorption), but don't stress about what or how fast I'm eating.

A few observations:

1) Complera. (I'm assuming rilpivirine?) Seemed to change my taste? Nothing tasted good even if I was hungry... chemical tasting saliva, sweat.

2) Complera. Seemed to make me dizzy, spacey, dreamy (felt a bit like SSRI laced with Benadryl) so I spent more time being inactive and not burning energy to build an appetite.

3) I admit the possibility of some placebo effect

Knowing that I HAD to eat a FIXED amount of food...EVERYDAY...somehow turned diner into work and sucked the joy out of it. I notice that I probably eat more now that it's less required. Reverse psychology? Oppositional diet disorder? Lol

Anyways, thanks for the responses...
impressed with this forum so far

mecch · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2015, 09:04:26 pm »

Is this issue sorted out now? I didn't clearly understand your response.

Are you taking the Vyvanse for eating disorder or for ADHD by chance. If you care to discuss. No judgements here, I take an ADHD drug but my dosage varies by day. It doesn't much effect my appetite, only maybe the first month or two. Is your Vyvanse time release? Do you like food?

phenethylamine · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2015, 05:31:07 pm »

The Vyvanse is prescribed for ADD...
It's only available as a once a day long acting med with a biological time release.
It's also approved for "binge eating disorder" (but that's not what It's prescribed to me for, or why I take it)...But maybe that will shed some light on why binge eating is difficult for me? I like food, and no I'm not anorexic. Lol
My appetite or ability to eat isn't really what I wanted to focus on here..

I was more curious about what calories had to do with drug absorption.
At first I thought, drug x had to bind onto x amount of calories to be absorbed, so I thought they had to be combined in the stomach.But upon further research...a calorie isn't even really a physical thing... it's a unit of energy needed to raise body temperature... so confused... If you consume 400cals and then "burn" 200 are you suddenly under the minimum? I read somewhere they wrote calories cause it sounded less bad, than eat with fat (at the time). Fat is apparently healthy again this year, I like fat..but so far the only foods I've found with concentrated calories are sugar/chocolate. 1tbsp of honey is 60cal. So after 8tbsp of honey, I'm not sure I'm still hungry for actual healthy food.

So as you can see, I'm a little obsessive about understanding "why/how" things work.

mecch · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2015, 05:37:52 pm »

Honey Im glad you are talking but having a problem following you. I took nutritional chemistry in college. Calories are real. Caloric content of food is very simple:
Fat: 1 gram = 9 calories
Protein: 1 gram = 4 calories
Carbohydrates: 1 gram = 4 calories
Alcohol: 1 gram = 7 calories

All food is a single or combination of these 4 categories.
Fat, Carbos, and Protein are all necessary for life.
Alcohol makes it more fun.

Maybe you should look into a food chemistry or nutrition class and learn about this stuff. Its not rocket science I promise.

phenethylamine · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2015, 07:08:50 pm »

LOL sorry...I might be a little manic at the moment or at times,
I thought bioavailability (drug absorbency) was mostly tied to solubility.

If the drug is soluble in water, it will absorb better and faster.
Sometimes to fast, and that is why food is necessary to slow it down.

Alternatively if a drug is poorly soluble in water, but highly soluble in fat, oil.
Then a high fat meal would be suggested. An example is why THC is always cooked into butter, oil for oral ingestion. It won't dissolve in water.

But I fail to see the link between calories and solubility.
If alcohol and fat (opposite ends of the solubility spectrum) differ by only 2 calories.
The only thing I can think of is that calories might "stimulate" the digestion process, pushing the drug into the intestines where it is absorbed and prevent the drug molecule from "expiring" breaking down in the stomach where it isn't?

I've learned quite a bit on pharmacology just on my own time out of curiosity.
I'm just now starting to look into nutrition and food chemistry. Really interesting.

mecch · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2015, 07:31:45 pm »

Seems like a good question to know the answer to. Put it to your specialist doctor? For your combo. What kind of food is necessary? Or if it really is just a matter of calories?

Fat is the no no with efavirenz.

Seems like your doc should respond with a specific for your molecules.

Making hash butter tomorrow and looking forward to it.

bocker3 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 09, 2015, 05:36:59 pm »

I take Reyataz, which also must be taken with food (meal or light snack). Stomach acid aids in the absorption of this drug, which is why the food requirement exists. I generally take mine in the morning, right after breakfast - which is usually some shredded wheat, low-fat milk and a banana.
I'm not sure if that is the same for Complera - I suppose it could be to avoid stomach upset also. I bet if you read your package insert, you might get some light shed on this.

Mike

phenethylamine · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2015, 02:04:07 pm »

Some drugs are harsh on the stomach walls, and that's why they require "diluting" with food. My nurse told me however that the calorie requirement was strictly related to "drug absorbency" and not with gastrointestinal issues/damage.

I think that might be what freaked me out initially, cause I wouldn't really be able to "tell/feel" if the drug was absorbing right... and that could lead to resistance.

I have read reports of people taking Efavirenz with fatty-food on purpose for quick onset to get "high". So that tells me that Efavirenz is fat soluble like THC.

I will ask the dietician at my clinic when I return in a month or so and report back.
Might be helpful for others to understand as well?

leatherman · « **Reply #17 on:** April 24, 2015, 09:29:03 am »

Quote from: phenethylamine on April 10, 2015, 02:04:07 pm

Some drugs are harsh on the stomach walls, and that's why they require "diluting" with food. My nurse told me however that the calorie requirement was strictly related to "drug absorbency" and not with gastrointestinal issues/damage.

your nurse is correct and you are not. HIV meds are not "harsh" on the stomach walls and require no "diluting". Food requirements for certain meds are about stomach acid production and absorption into the body.

mecch · « **Reply #18 on:** April 24, 2015, 08:21:04 pm »

Quote from: phenethylamine on April 10, 2015, 02:04:07 pm

Some drugs are harsh on the stomach walls, and that's why they require "diluting" with food. My nurse told me however that the calorie requirement was strictly related to "drug absorbency" and not with gastrointestinal issues/damage.

I think that might be what freaked me out initially, cause I wouldn't really be able to "tell/feel" if the drug was absorbing right... and that could lead to resistance.

I have read reports of people taking Efavirenz with fatty-food on purpose for quick onset to get "high". So that tells me that Efavirenz is fat soluble like THC.

I will ask the dietician at my clinic when I return in a month or so and report back.
Might be helpful for others to understand as well?

Sweetie why don't you talk about why your pseudo is druggy. Also this post and the post about psychedelic efavirenz in the other thread - make me wonder if you want to talk about getting high. I read all that deep web stuff about efavirenz and LSD over 5 years ago when it was my first combo. I enjoyed my mushrooms and my acid over the years and I know trippy effects, so recognised them on efavirenz especially the first month but even later.

The gist finally was that I wasn't a good longterm patient for that molecule because the fun and trippy effect after 6 months was displaced by flashes of rage and general irritability and instability. Its CNS active and it doesn't play well with a few people and this forum helped me understand that. Also I asked for a med change and it took 6 months and 2 meetings to get my id to agree and prescribe.

I think you go into territory in these reflections that might be counterproductive to others - who brass tacks - need to hear that its CNS active and not for everyone and change if you can. If its bad for you.

Joe K · « **Reply #19 on:** April 24, 2015, 09:18:33 pm »

Quote from: phenethylamine on April 10, 2015, 02:04:07 pm

Some drugs are harsh on the stomach walls, and that's why they require "diluting" with food. My nurse told me however that the calorie requirement was strictly related to "drug absorbency" and not with gastrointestinal issues/damage.

I think that might be what freaked me out initially, cause I wouldn't really be able to "tell/feel" if the drug was absorbing right... and that could lead to resistance.

I have read reports of people taking Efavirenz with fatty-food on purpose for quick onset to get "high". So that tells me that Efavirenz is fat soluble like THC.

I will ask the dietician at my clinic when I return in a month or so and report back.
Might be helpful for others to understand as well?

Phen,

This is the third time I am telling you to stop presenting opinions or "hearsay" as medical facts. It's obvious you do not know what you are talking about, so stop saying things as if they are facts. Either back up what you say with sources, otherwise everything you say is simply your opinion, which is most often wrong.

Joe

phenethylamine · « **Reply #20 on:** May 12, 2015, 08:05:56 pm »

Thanks Mecch for always responding in a polite respectful way,
I had to look up the meaning of "brass tacks"... is it stick to basics?
Difficult for me but I will try. Like to write down my thought process as I'm figuring things out... but I'm noticing people seem to quote a small portion of what I wrote and use it out of context. Definitely a learning curb to this forum.

Update: I am back on Complera

I have relaxed (less stressed) a little about the food requirements since learning that Rilpivirine (Edurant) has almost a 50 hour half life (two days!)...that makes it more forgiving in case of failed absorption and really changes the way I was thinking... I've also rediscovered peanut butter and nuts as an easy calorie fix... to think I was downing raw olive oil shots haha I'm hoping this will get easier as I discover new foods and stuff... I always hated reading nutrition labels.

Increased heart rate is listed as a side effect on the booklet, but I actually kind of welcome it haha I feel like it might compensate for having to eat more

One more question, hopefully I don't flamed.
Is it safe to wash the pill down with carbonated Beverages instead of water?
Soda is acidic... but in this case acidity is good I think? It goes down SO much better and get almost zero reflux side effects this way... just wondering... no one has to answer.

leatherman · « **Reply #21 on:** May 12, 2015, 08:47:07 pm »

Quote from: phenethylamine on May 12, 2015, 08:05:56 pm

One more question, hopefully I don't flamed.
Is it safe to wash the pill down with carbonated Beverages instead of water?
Soda is acidic... but in this case acidity is good I think? It goes down SO much better and get almost zero reflux side effects this way... just wondering... no one has to answer.

I drink over two liters of Coca-Cola every day and have for thirty years. I have washed down all sorts of HIV meds with Coke - and also with liquor! (A good healthy swig of Jack Daniels will totally wipe out the "flavor" of Norvir)

Quote from: phenethylamine on May 12, 2015, 08:05:56 pm

I've also rediscovered peanut butter and nuts as an easy calorie fix... to think I was downing raw olive oil shots haha I'm hoping this will get easier as I discover new foods and stuff... I always hated reading nutrition labels.

is there some reason you aren't just taking the easy way (kinda the way they designed a once-a-day pill to be taken - easily) and taking these meds when you eat lunch or dinner? 400 calories is a pretty easy target to hit. I'm a very light eater and I can manage; although I freely admit, after the first week, I have never bothered to read nutrition labels to calculate calories ever again. Of course, I love my pill fob. It allows me the freedom to always have a set of pills (I take 5) with me at dinner, wherever I am.

Tonny2 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 12, 2015, 08:59:10 pm »

ojo Hello there...I've been taking my pills for twenty years with, water, coca cola, beer, I haven't tried them with liquor because I'm a beer guy, ...I TAKE MY MEDS WITH MY BREAKFAST AT SEVEN am, with a cup of chocalate with some cookies, and at night, after my dinner, at seven PM...I take them after I finish eating....good luck ojo

wolfter · « **Reply #23 on:** May 12, 2015, 09:04:06 pm »

I always feel like a fraud coming in to these types of questions and concerns. Firstly, worry about simply taking the pills. Getting calories isn't really that hard. Adjust intakes with scheduling and such.

I haven't worried about the caloric needs for quite a while but I also adjusted a few of my calories to the mornings.

I get flack for living on my protein bars but they provide enough calories if You choose not to have an actual meal.

phenethylamine · « **Reply #24 on:** May 12, 2015, 10:58:41 pm »

Thanks Leather man!
I probably drink as much cola as you in a day (4-5 cans easy) so that's good news as it washes down perfectly, no taste, no residue getting stuck in my throat, no side effects almost even anymore... and 1 can is 120cal already.

I'm just going to take it with my largest meal of the day, and try to relax..and not be like omg I only had 350 calories instead of 400 like some kind of reverse proanorexic cheerleader. My pill from yesterday AND the day before should technically still be active when I took my pill today so its all good.

Also I'm not sure if I said this already, most of my anxiety with this stems from taking a pill I can't feel to treat a virus I can't feel... you have a headache you take a an ibuprofen your headache goes away... you know it's working. You drink caffeine you feel yourself wake up you know its working... in this situation only a blood test will tell you... and its always delayed by 3-4 months t-ill next visit... so just wanted to feel confident that it's absorbing ok and I won't have any surprises in 4 months. .but I think it will be fine

leatherman · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2015, 11:22:59 pm »

Quote from: phenethylamine on May 12, 2015, 10:58:41 pm

1 can is 120cal already.

my treadmill work at Planet Fitness always burns off one can of coke.

I don't know how many calories are in a large Coke from McDonalds but I often get one from across the street from the gym on my way home - so that might just discount the can of Coke calorie burn-off LOL

I'm glad to hear you're going to let go of the stress from needlessly worrying about the calories in your meal when taking your meds.

phenethylamine · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2015, 11:30:53 pm »

McDonald's across the street from the gym? Smart location Hahaha

Tonny2 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 13, 2015, 11:31:57 am »

Quote from: phenethylamine on May 12, 2015, 10:58:41 pm

Thanks Leather man!
I probably drink as much cola as you in a day (4-5 cans easy) so that's good news as it washes down perfectly, no taste, no residue getting stuck in my throat, no side effects almost even anymore... and 1 can is 120cal already.

I'm just going to take it with my largest meal of the day, and try to relax..and not be like omg I only had 350 calories instead of 400 like some kind of reverse proanorexic cheerleader. My pill from yesterday AND the day before should technically still be active when I took my pill today so its all good.

Also I'm not sure if I said this already, most of my anxiety with this stems from taking a pill I can't feel to treat a virus I can't feel... you have a headache you take a an ibuprofen your headache goes away... you know it's working. You drink caffeine you feel yourself wake up you know its working... in this situation only a blood test will tell you... and its always delayed by 3-4 months t-ill next visit... so just wanted to feel confident that it's absorbing ok and I won't have any surprises in 4 months. .but I think it will be fine

ojo Hi there...when you take your pill, just think that it's working, you are going to be fine...positive attitute helps...ah, I do not drink that much coca cola, just one or two a week...hugs ojo

Wade · « **Reply #28 on:** May 14, 2015, 10:16:19 pm »

Try and take your meds at around the same time each day,
and have something nourishing in your stomach .

phenethylamine · « **Reply #29 on:** June 03, 2015, 08:41:35 pm »

I forgot to update,
The Complera seems to have been working.

CD4:500's
VL: 200's

This is based on a month of taking it just before meals,
Still a few months to learn results of taking afterwards (the recommended way).
Now just experimenting with different foods that don't cause as much reflux.

Wolfer : high calorie protein bars might be good to carry around.
I'm still looking for really condensed portable calorie foods that can fit in a small container.

Also nurse confirmed what leather man said, eating apparently stimulates gastric acid to break food down... and it absorbs best under acidic conditions. I'm still not entirely sure why...but Il figure it out later.

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Author Topic: Taken With Food... (before, after?) (Read 15376 times)