POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: morningsun on February 26, 2012, 06:18:27 am
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Hello! :)
I have never had unprotected anal intercourse with a man in my life,
But also, I never use condom for either receptive or insertive fellatio...
I would like to know from you, What is the risk??
Recently I performed unprotected oral sex without ejaculation on a partner whose HIV status I do not know,
I brushed my teeth about 40 minutes before the oral sex,
And I'm concerned about being in contact with pre-seminal fluid
Do you think this is a concerning situation?
This was my first encounter since my previosu HIV test which resulted negative and well, Im afraid that if this is not a problem, im becoming paranoid about the subject and dont want to end up testing myslef after every singel sexual encounter... :( But still, I am really concerned about this past experience since I really do not know much about this partner...
Thank you so much for your attention,
Have a nice day!
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Hello! :)
I have never had unprotected anal intercourse with a man in my life,
But also, I never use condom for either receptive or insertive fellatio...
I would like to know from you, What is the risk??
Recently I performed unprotected oral sex without ejaculation on a partner whose HIV status I do not know,
I brushed my teeth about 40 minutes before the oral sex,
And I'm concerned about being in contact with pre-seminal fluid
Do you think this is a concerning situation?
This was my first encounter since my previosu HIV test which resulted negative and well, Im afraid that if this is not a problem, im becoming paranoid about the subject and dont want to end up testing myslef after every singel sexual encounter... :( But still, I am really concerned about this past experience since I really do not know much about this partner...
Thank you so much for your attention,
Have a nice day!
I would not think to test over the situation as you described it.
If you wear a condom for penetrative anal/vaginal sex you will indeed avoid HIV infection.
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Thank you!!
:)
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I'd still like a doctor to reply (if it's possible)
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Morning,
I'd still like a doctor to reply (if it's possible)
You'll be waiting a long time then - there are no doctors here.
As JK said, you haven't had a risk.
Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.
To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.
Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!
Ann
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Thank you very much Ann,
Very useful informaton
I have researched lots of studies that indicate
Hiv infection by fellatio though extremely low
It's not impossible...
But still, your post comforts me.
I thought some members here were doctors,
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
:)
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Thank you very much Ann,
Very useful informaton
I have researched lots of studies that indicate
Hiv infection by fellatio though extremely low
It's not impossible...
But still, your post comforts me.
I thought some members here were doctors,
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
:)
We have studied lots of data ourselves, and our risk assessment is based on the most current first tiered peer-reviewed studies available. Notably Page-Shafer and Romero studies of long-term serodiscordant couples.
We do not rely on anecdotal evidence insofar as HIV transmission is concerned, especially not now, where the current state of the scientific and epidemiological art is as advanced as it is. With more people living longer and healthier lives, a large enough collection of serodiscordant couples has finally emerged to create blind studies where HIV transmission routes can be studied with scientific quantification.
Here are some of the scientific findings.
No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States
Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228
AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men
Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.
Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:
Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;
Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.
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Wow!
Im aware of some of Page-Shafer's work,
But I'd still like to read some of the selections you have posted.
Is it possible to do so online?
Thanks!!
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Some of them are still online, at least in abstract form, for free.
Simply google the author, title, and date of study. For more advanced searching, try aegis.com - which should have most of this information available online.
Again, you might only be able to access the abstract for free. Many of us who are authorized to give risk assessment on this site have had full paid access to the complete studies. Any you do not find for free are likely available for purchase, or can be found in your local university library.
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Good references!
Thank you for taking the time to list them all.
Have a good day!
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Does it matter if I brush my teeth 40 mins. aprox.
Before performing fellatio?
A doctor friend, although agrees i was not at risk tells me it's better
If next time I keep a distance of one hour between brushing and doing fellatio,
If that is so, then, how can I not be at risk?
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Does it matter if I brush my teeth 40 mins. aprox.
Before performing fellatio?
A doctor friend, although agrees i was not at risk tells me it's better
If next time I keep a distance of one hour between brushing and doing fellatio,
If that is so, then, how can I not be at risk?
How can I quantify an event which has never been documented?
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I know what you mean Jk,
And I know this might be the most stupid question ever,
But if the serodicordant couples know theyre condition and risks
Wouldnt they be super careful?
I guess what I want to concretely ask is,
Do you personally think that infected precum on regular everyday lesions we get from teeth brushing is able to infect someone with HIV?
That's my question, based of course on your experience. Everyone here!!
I feel other posts with the same type of problem get more confident responses compared to mine so, it does make me wonder if I should freak out or not. Everyone mentions fear of being exposed through oral sex but my fear particularly is based on the fact I brushed my teeth 40 mins before :-\
Please help...
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The conditions of the serodiscordant couples varied greatly. Some were on treatment, some off. Some went on treatment, others stopped. Viral loads varied greatly, from undetectable to astronomical.
And the three studies went on for:
Ten years (romero)
Five years (Page - Shafer)
and three years (Page - Shafer)
If you think that over two hundred people can be "super careful" fo the length of time of the studies, then your faith in sociology, rather than empirical data, seems to be paramount.
Of course, and to your point, none of the parties was a chronic meth user. Google "meth mouth" and you will see some of the instances where I believe all scientifically sound risk assessment would be essentially invalid. And of course, we would be talking receptive, not insertive fellatio.
Your tooth brushing forty or even four minutes before the event is immaterial. That was not a legitimate risk.
The obvious and disfiguring artificially or genetically conditions notwithstanding, my risk assessment on this forum is an opinion I will hold iroin clad until and unless compelling new evidence is presented.
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I see,
I guess that after al is the same risk as getting struck by lightining
They say oral sex risk is so low that even
sex with condom has higher risks, being as low as it is
do you think thats true?
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I see,
I guess that after al is the same risk as getting struck by lightining
They say oral sex risk is so low that even
sex with condom has higher risks, being as low as it is
do you think thats true?
No, your statment is not correct.
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Morning, you've had your original concern and more answered. We're not here to participate in an endless dialogue for each time you have another thought about oral sex.
You were not at risk. It's time to get on with your life.
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I understand, I will try to keep myslef cool and be thankful for the information you guys have thoughtfully provided me.
I really appreciate it. Thanks!!
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You're welcome. And now you need to get on with your life.
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I see,
I guess that after al is the same risk as getting struck by lightining
They say oral sex risk is so low that even
sex with condom has higher risks, being as low as it is
do you think thats true?
Well not quite. See, we have absolute and clearly documented evidence of people getting hit by lightning. Photographic evidence even. We do not have that definitive proof of oral transmission.
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Oh I see Jk,
So it IS that uncommon..
And thanks for your advice Andy, I will try to get on with
My life as you say, but its been hard. I dont know how common
Are cases like this but I am truly paranoid, I get little or no sleep And have nightmares while at it. Its awful to be honest. I´m thinking on getting some help, 'cause this has been very uneasy althouh is not the first time it happens.
I'll keep being safe that is not under question, and thanks again.
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HELLO GUYS. MY SITUATION IS AS FOLLOWS: Last february 8 I collected my negative results. Since then I've had three partners. One of them with whom I had unprotected fellatio and protected anal sex and with the other two strictly unprotected fellatio. At the beginning of this month of march I started to feel a swollen lymph node in the back of my neck, subsequently I had a throat infection and my doctor told me the lymph node was due to that, and that nothing seemed to be hiv related.
Right now, nearly a month away from my throat infection and seven weeks after the test results I still have the swollen lymph node in the back of my neck BUT getting smaller every day. My doctor says its normal that the lymph node is still this way because of the repeated cases in which my throat has been infected through my life.
I've never had unprotected anal sex before, and the possible exposure in case I am infected only could've happened between the enocunters explained above. Do you think my symptoms are hiv related or do they seem to you as a normal response to the mentioned throat infection?
THANK YOU!
Luis
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HELLO GUYS. MY SITUATION IS AS FOLLOWS: Last february 8 I collected my negative results. Since then I've had three partners. One of them with whom I had unprotected fellatio and protected anal sex and with the other two strictly unprotected fellatio. At the beginning of this month of march I started to feel a swollen lymph node in the back of my neck, subsequently I had a throat infection and my doctor told me the lymph node was due to that, and that nothing seemed to be hiv related.
Right now, nearly a month away from my throat infection and seven weeks after the test results I still have the swollen lymph node in the back of my neck BUT getting smaller every day. My doctor says its normal that the lymph node is still this way because of the repeated cases in which my throat has been infected through my life.
I've never had unprotected anal sex before, and the possible exposure in case I am infected only could've happened between the enocunters explained above. Do you think my symptoms are hiv related or do they seem to you as a normal response to the mentioned throat infection?
THANK YOU!
Luis
Nothing you report here is a risk for HIV infection. Not the oral sex, not the protected bum fucking. NOTHING.
HIV is a fragile virus, it is transmitted in very particular ways. Those ways are:
Unprotected vaginal and anal sex;
Sharing contaminated injecting equipment such as needles and syringes;
In some cases from HIV positive mother to her unborn or nursing infant.
Your symptoms are not HIV related. We will not get into exchange with you about them. Listen to your doctor.
You are rapidly wearing out your welcome here. You start new threads, you post in threads other than your own. You persistently ask questions about non risk situations. Continue in this vein and you will be given a 28 day ban from the forums.
Consider yourself warned.
MtD
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Thank you for the information but you dont need to be that hard on me,
It is clear to me that people come here to be helped, why the need to be so mean?
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morning,
If you want help when you come here, why can't you follow or rules so it's easier for us to help you (and others)?
Our rules are in place because they help us to help you. If you don't like it here, try MedHelp.
Ann
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Dear Ann,
First of all, I have always been thankful for the help Ive recieved here. I like it. But if its not offensive or against the rule, i would like to recieve more information. I am ina foreign country where i dont speak the language quite well and dont know yet how to book an appointment. And my lump is still there, is tiny tiny, but i dont know for sure if its exactly a lymph node. according to your knowledge, what are the characteristics of a swollen lymoh node from hiv infection? My lump is movable, tiny, and as I tell you previously, gets even smaller. The process has been really slow, but I can see it getting smaller. does iit work like this with hiv infection, i mean, can it all of the sudden get large and painful if I had been infected?
Thank you
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You would do well to leave your lump alone. Whether it's a lymph node or a cebaceous cyst or something else, often squeezing or otherwise bothering such things can create a big problem.
We can't diagnose anything here. What I can say is that I don't see any reason to believe that HIV is your problem. Which you have been told several times already.
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Thank you, Ive been trying to track down an engish speaking doctor around here and as soon AS that happens I'll know if its a lymph node or not. Finally. I havent been able to think on anything else but that lump, ive read uts an early hiv infection, and well I really want to keep believing that HIV is not my problema, ive always been protected but other paranoid questions appera in my mind like "what if one of those condoms broke without me knowing it, what if i did have a sore on my mouth while performing fellatio or fingering my partner?? Im nt in a good place, very desperate and you guys are the only help i hav, please forgive me, i am not well :'(
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Hanging out in "what ifs" is a very unhealthy place. It's an endless spiral that leads down to nothing good. And for instance if your condom had failed you would have known it. It's not about little itty bitty holes. The whole thing goes and ends up looking like a hoop on the penis with a lot of pieces hanging down from it.
But we are not going to get into refutting each of your fears here. I'll just repeat that HIV is not the problem.
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Sun,
You're in France, not Outer Mongolia. I cannot believe that you cannot find a doctor with a good enough command of the English language to have a look at your lump - lymph nodes are the same no matter what language the doctor or patient speaks.
Go see a doctor - you're not going to accomplish ANYTHING posting about your lump on the internet. Whatever it is, it's not about hiv. You didn't have a risk, regardless of what your mind may be telling you.
Ann
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You're right Ann. I'll start asking for a number to call a doctor, Im sure I'll find one, Thanks allot Andy too.! You guys have been amazing.
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Finally went to see a doctor here in paris an well, her prognosis si the same im fine according to her. Thanks allot Ann for encourging me, the language issue was still a bit hard but ur right, im not in outer Mongolia lol.
I have a question though, my doctor told me the risk for oral transmission is 0.04% That is not even 1%, and given all the studies done, why is it not possible to say that unprotected sex IS SAFER SEX? Are there any people who fiercely claim they were infected via oral or what?
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*SORRY: unprotected ORAL sex ;)
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Morning, you've had your original concern and more answered. We're not here to participate in an endless dialogue for each time you have another thought about oral sex.
You were not at risk. It's time to get on with your life.
At this point we are not going to indulge you in more questions and what ifs. If you come back with more of the same about your non-risk you are going to get a Time Out from the site. HIV is not your problem and if you consistently use condoms for vaginal and anal intercourse you are not going to be at a for real risk sexually. Now get on with your life.
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Hello Everyone,
It's been a while and I've been doing much better. I had a conclusive test done (90 days after i took the first one) and it is negative. But something has been going on with me for a while now which is why i took the decision to ask you:
In my case, after a conclusive negative result, is it possible to have hiv related symptoms and needing to test furtherly?
I have been experiencing constant diarrhea since some moths ago already. I've been eager to see my doctor again but she's overly booked for two weeks ahead. So thats why Im here again guys, I need to know if, given my circumstances, after having tested HIV NEGATIVE: February 1,2012 and again NEGATIVE: May 11,2012 Could my diarrhea issue be HIV related and if I need further testing.
Thank you
Sun
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Sun,
Why would your diarrhea be hiv related when YOU DO NOT HAVE HIV??? You didn't have a true risk to begin with.
Go see your doctor to find out what your problem is - whatever that may be, you have conclusively ruled hiv out as a possible cause. There are thousands of things that can cause diarrhea.
If you read the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
Please consider yourself warned!
Ann
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Whatever is causing your diarrhea has nothing to do with HIV. You have reliably tested negative for the HIV virus and there is no need for further testing.
You should be discussing your problem with your doctor. Diarrhea can be caused by many different problems so your doctor needs to find out the cause of the problem.
We cannot do anything more for you here as our focus is strictly on HIV. Good luck in getting your problem resolved.
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Im sorry guys I was seriously freaking out yesterday. Oh and by the way THANK YOU VERY MUCH for everything. You see a medical student freind of mine told me this bunch of stuff. He told me that a diarrhea lasting so long required an hiv test and when i told him I already took it he started talking about the westernblot and how can people still test positive in it when they can show negative in the regular test being the case they're actually positive...
I was like "what in the hell?..." I was serously freaking out, luckily I had your support to come to 'cuz otherwise I'd be having a horrible time. This is an extremely sensitive subject for me.
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Sun,
Your mate needs to hit the books again. The Western Blot test is only used once there has been a positive antibody test - the WB test is used to rule out false positive antibody results.
You don't have hiv, so go see a doctor about your dire-rear. If by chance you engage in oral/anal activities, you may have a parasitic infection such as Giardiasis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giardiasis) (it's very common in your demographic). Get yourself checked out.
You have already ruled out hiv as a possible cause.
Ann
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Thanks ann!
Oral/Anal you mean rimming?
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Thanks ann!
Oral/Anal you mean rimming?
Yes, oral/anal sex is also called anilingus (also spelled "analingus) or rimming.
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Oh, I see.
Well yeah that's probably the cause...