Detecting HIV in Advanced HIV/Aids

[GeorgeTC]

Hello,

A little background here. 32 year old White Male of Western Euro descent.  I had unprotected sex on a cruise line about 9 years ago with a woman.  After this experience I developed HIV like symptoms but also FLU like as well.  Over the next 7-8 years I felt a very slow decline in health, to the point it was never overwhelming but always there.  I remained in excellent physical condition and continued work etc.  I am not a hypochondriac and I get really frustrated when I read some people that clearly had no exposure but have mental blockage when it comes to HIV.  With that said, over the last years I developed the following symptoms:

1) 1-2 night sweats a year
2) wart outbreaks that i cannot control
3) Oral thrush once every couple of years, not often but on rare occasion
4) major fatigue
5) Body rashes that have now increased over time, to the point it is monthly occurrence, clear bubbles that itch and always on the tops of the hands
6) extreme fatigue, I can barely get out of the Bed in the AM
7) slow healing wounds, which has been increasing on average

So I finally went and got tested.  My first test was Oraquick Adv which was negative.  I followed it up with an Elisa/WB negative test.  I even went back and bought another Oraquick test and it was negative again.  3 different tests 3 negatives. My white blood cell count was normal at 5.5.  I tested a little high for Epstein Barr but not high enough to warrant treatment.  I am a low risk type in that I am a heterosexual male with limited exposure (10 unprotected partners over a lifetime) non drug user.  I can fully accept not having HIV but my symptoms are so insane HIV like that I can't help but to think something is going on. I have been tested for Syphillis which was a Negative. 

Is it possible I am no longer producing Antibodies for the test to pick up?  There seems to be some documental evidence for this in very rare occurance

Is there any other testing method that measures HIV and would you recommend it?

Am I being crazy?

[Jeff G]

You are HIV negative if you tested 3 months past any unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse .

If you were in advanced stage of HIV you would know it .

[jkinatl2]

The point at which the human body stops producing HIV antibodies is almost immediately followed by death, as it signifies the complete and total collapse of the immune system. This event has almost always been noticed in a hospital setting, because the patient will have been extremely ill with severe opportunistic infections such as pneumonia or KS.

There is no way you would be walking around with a collapsed immune system. The slightest gug would have killed you by now.

Your tests are accurate. You do not have HIV.

[GeorgeTC]

While I agree with both of you I am simply at my wits end on this.

My body requires about 10-12 hours of sleep and when I awake it takes a while to shake the stooper of awakening and the very faint pain in my lymphnodes in my neck.  Once I am up and get going I end up very relatively ok, meaning I could go for a short jog, do housework etc.  By late day I am tired again and could use a nap.   I have all the major signs of a majorly suppressed Immune System yet I have no answers for why.   I have to admit that this has caused a deep sadness in me and I cannot explain why this is happening to me.   

Could a HIV negative patient test for CD4 and CD8 levels?  And if I did this what would it realistically tell me about my immune system? 

If a patient wanted to go to great lengths to prove he/she is HIV negative what other tests/way besides the Antibodies test could be used to prove this?  I only hold on to the HIV thought because I have read a few case studies that have shown patients exhibiting no antibodies and then they turn up with an opportunistic infection and it's later found out they had HIV. A quick Google search of "Undectable HIV antibodies in Advanced HIV/AIDS" will bring up several cases by reputable groups.  If I wasn't having these symptoms I would gladly move on with my life and not think another minute about HIV. 

[Ann]

George,

If you feel unwell, you need to see a doctor to find out what is going on. Whatever that may be, you have ruled hiv out as a possible cause.

Quit chasing a virus you do not have and go see a doctor. You cannot diagnose yourself and we cannot diagnose you either. All we can tell you is that you are hiv negative.

You are conclusively hiv negative. You do NOT have hiv.

Ann

[GeorgeTC]

I am sorry but what else would you do?  Your body is telling you it's immune suppressed with those type systems.  You've been to the dr and he has run every imaginable test for everything which all returns normal.  You know you aren't the type to invent an illness and your symptoms are very real and documented. 

I might be chasing a virus but I'm chasing the most likely candidate and going from there.   I think I will have the DNA PCR test. If that turns up absent then I ll bury this.  But I truly believe There is the possibility i might be oe of the few that don't produce antibodies for whatever weird reason...

This is my last post on the topix as I see its looking dead horse-ish by now. 

Good luck to all those that struggle with any type virus disease,

[RapidRod]

Neither the Abbott RealTime nor the Roche COBAS AmpliPrep/COBAS TaqMan HIV-1 assay is intended to be used as a donor screening test for HIV-1 or as a diagnostic test to confirm the presence of HIV-1 infection.
Richard Klein
HIV/AIDS Program Director
Office of Special Health Issues
Food and Drug Administration

[Ann]

George,

The LAST thing you need to do is have a DNA test run. They are NOT approved for diagnostic purposes because they return an unacceptably high rate of FALSE positive results. Do not get a DNA test.



If you were so immunocompromised that you were no longer producing hiv antibodies, you would be lying on your death-bed in some hospital. You would have incontinent diarrhea (and unable to get out of bed), be in horrible pain, and riddled with numerous bacterial and viral infections.

You'd be running a high, hard-to-control fever and your lips would be dry and cracked from its presence. Your tongue would feel like a hot, crusty sponge. Your skin would feel scorched. You'd be dehydrated even as they tried to pump more fluids intravenously into your body.

You would probably be at least partially - if not totally - blind, suffering from some degree of dementia, and possibly also suffering from some form of cancer. Your organs would be trying to shut down, if you weren't already undergoing organ failure.

Did I mention you'd be in horrible pain?


The case studies of hiv positive people who no longer created antibodies were done in the 90s when we did not have effective antiretroviral medications. The above is what those people were going through at the time when they ceased testing hiv antibody positive.

Please be clear that they all previously tested hiv positive. They only ceased making antibodies when they were that sick DYING.

Hiv diagnostic tests have come a long way since the early and mid 90s when these reports were written. Now we can also test for the p24 antigen, which is only produced in the presence of hiv when there are no antibodies present.

The p24 antigen is present both before antibodies are made, and after antibodies are no longer being made. It is absent in the presence of hiv antibodies.

Some hiv diagnostic tests look for both hiv1 and hiv2 antibodies, plus the p24 antigen (usually called duo tests).

If you still don't believe us that you would be producing antibodies if you were in fact hiv positive, go take a duo test and collect yet another negative result. Do not get a test (DNA) that isn't even approved for diagnostic purposes.




Has your doctor explored Chronic Fatigue Syndrome? Some doctors don't "believe" in CFS. If yours doesn't, get a second opinion - it may be that you need new eyes on your case anyway.

We cannot diagnose you here. But we CAN tell you that you have tested conclusively hiv negative.



In addition to a second doctor's opinion of your symptoms, you may benefit from therapy to help you discover why you cannot accept the results of only certain medical diagnostic tests.

Your doctor tells you that tests for other possible causes came back negative (or "in range" for CBC results) and you believe those results, so why can't you believe your negative hiv results?

That's something to discuss with a doctor or therapist, not us. Sorry, that is outside our remit.

Good luck finding out what, if anything, is actually wrong with you. Whatever that may be, you have already conclusively ruled out hiv as a possible cause.

You do NOT have hiv!

Ann