POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Life on October 02, 2006, 07:40:33 pm
-
Ok, its been a year without SEX. Me and Will wana get back into that aspect of our relationship. More Will than I, I might add. We are both Pos, I am on meds, Will is not. Condoms pose a problem for one of us i.e. "able to perform". What are the risks we would be taking if we ever decided to have unprotected sex? We are finding that we just don't talk about it much until lately. I would never want to harm will nor he I.. But here we are... No sex... Just love..
Signed, No Sex :-\
-
Ah the ever present issue of re-infection or super-infection.
Esme, I can't tell you what you should do. There have been cases of HIV positive people contracting another form of the virus, but I understand that the number of these people world-wide is very low. Like under 2 dozen and there are probably a range of factors at play.
My personal view is that if two pozzies want to do it "pink on pink", then go for it. I hate condoms and one big reason I prefer to serosort is that, as far as I'm concerned, we don't have to use condoms. Naturally when I bless a neggie with my divine presence in the bed chamber it's rubbers all the way.
Fondly,
MtD
-
Yeah, Matty, I have heard that story b4. I don't think either one of us could be comfortable "during the act" knowing that there is a slightest hint of a possibility...
Whoa is I...
-
Hello Eric,
It is a good thing that you do not base your relationship off of sex. However, there are those moments when you DO want to get intimate with one another. It is only natural. The BEST thing you can DO to alleviate any worries is to practice "Safe Sex". Use a condom during intercourse to protect each other.
Make the BEST of each Day!
-
Thanks Eldon.
Actually Newt is probably the one to ask about this sort of stuff doll. He knows the "numbers" on this sort of stuff and can produce the analysis that explains it all.
MtD
-
Matty, Eldon, thank you. I dont want to add to any -ve statistics of our own making for sure! I would glady give up the notion and just fumble our way through and see if it can work. Almost to scared to give it go. But boy, back in the day (1 year).. That was S.E.X..... Ill keep reading along. At least I am not willing to take the risk presently or futurely..
-
Gee, interesting question.
Do you both have the same resistance profile? Are you compliant in your meds, that is, don't miss doses, and are therefore unlikely to harbor resistant virus? Is your VL undetectable?
If the answer to all the above is yes, and you don't sleep around with others, I would say the risk of superinfection would be very low, though certainly not impossible. Even less if you were both on meds with undetectable viral loads.
-
hey Eric,
Is it possible that you can both have your virus genotyped to see if you both have a common strain.
As Matty said, re-infection seems to be a rare event. I don't know the numbers but my I read an article recently where the guy said you should be more worried about the effects of smoking than the chance of re-infection.
-
hmmmm.... Well I am undetectable. Will is not on meds yet cd4 700. Resistance tests have been done showing we both have wild card suseptable virus's which will respond well to meds. But Will certainly has a vl of some amount, I forget. He goes and gets his checkup along with me this month. Is Genotyping something special or is that part of our workups? I am not sure..
-
Esme,
Maybe this is something that you and your sweetie should discuss with your doctor. Irrespective of the realities of re-infection it seems that these concerns are a barrier to your intimacy and safe-sex is a problem too.
Intimacy is so important to a relationship.
MtD
-
I would be curious to know how many poz couples are safe with each other. From what folks have said, most aren't, since the 'super-infection' risk is very low, especially when on meds.
David
-
Eric
If you both have wild type virus of the same sub-type then the risk here of a significant re-infection is getting towards zero. I mean 0 point something to 0 point 000 something percent per 100 hours of sex. Especially if you've both had HIV for 3 yrs or longer. Even more so if you have sex with each other. Why?
You are on meds, which means you probably have insufficient quantity of virus to effect a second infection that is strong enough to establish itself in the presence of Will's existing HIV.
You are on meds, so even if Will's viral load is somewhere medium-high the damn bugs don't stand much of a chance, if any, of living on entry.
Re-infection is more likely in the first three years of being HIV+.
Studies between couples (okay straight couples) where one is positive and one negative have consistently shown 0 transmission rates regardless of condom use where the positive partner is on treatment. Indeed, even with a modest viral load (between 1,500, and 5,000 depending on the study). Obviously this don't translate directly to you, but is suggestive that between regular partners a low viral load is prob. uninfectious.
Other STIs increase the chance of HIV transmission significantly, but if unless you's gonna play away, this ain't gonna be part of the picture.
I know no positive-positive couples who use condoms with each other, other than to avoid pregnancy.
Viral load is important, and I have a view on where I would draw the line, PM me if you want to have my thoughts on this, but I ain't posting it here cos it will become "newt says viral load of X is safe & uninfectious".
Clearly, you can dance on the head of a pin with the outside considerations here, blips (prob not important), viral reservoirs (undecidable area), hidden mutations etc etc (prob only a concern in relation to Will's HIV). But, hmm, maybe life is too short.
Compare HIV sub-types and genotypes. If you have had resistance tests you almost certainly have a genotype on file. If the HIV sub-types are the same and the genos are similar, I wouldn't worry at all. However, that is what I wouldn't do. You must make up your own mind.
I second MtD's suggestion of talking to your doc about this. Considerations are different when it's a couple v a single person planning to play around. You will be in the lucky position of having many fact about each other's HIV, which will allow for a really informed view.
- matt
-
Eric....
Aside from what has already been said....and in my humble opinion the risk is practically zero.... I get the impression you aren't SEXUALLY attracted to Will. I suspect Will is anxious to do the dirty deed but its you who hold
back.....Or is it being HIV positive that makes you feel less "SEXY"? Just curious after reading your original post......
-
Hi Eric, our doctors have always recommended sex with condoms but Jeffrey and I have been together for 9 years and in those 9 years Jeffrey was with someone else only once and that was over 6 years ago. Jeffrey has been undetectable for over 8 years and for me I've only been undetectable for 8 months. We are aware of the risks but at this point in our relationship we are comfortable not using condoms. We've discussed it and this is what works for us.
Jeff
-
Thanks for you valued input... I am going to talk with Dr. Ben in three weeks about our geno's and see where we stand on this. I told Will I posted this and he just hugged me and said, lets be sure about every aspect before we do anything.
David, that's a good question and deserves answering... I am just scared is all.. I don't want to add another statistic to our plate.. I am the kind of guy who is or isn't, does or doesn't, will or wont. I am very attracted to my husband, and we do not go outside our relationship. We have a healthy sexual partnership, but just no penetration type of intimacy...
Matt, I have printed out this thread and am going to toss it on Ben's desk... He loves this kind of stuff! And if you want, PM me your X factor for him to read over..
Jeff, I want what you have!!!
Love you guys! ;)
Eric
-
Eric, it's great that you guys are able to talk about this and that you are able to maintain intimacy under these uncertain circumstances. That is really being in there together, man. Good for you.
Discussing it with your doctor(s) is a very good idea.
Reading what you wrote was like the team getting together to figure out how to win the game. Pretty damn cool to see a couple working together that way.
You can be sure we'll all stay tuned.
Cheers,
-
Andy, I know this is not the "end all beat all" to a relationship. But it was something we truly enjoyed. Maybe we cannot go back to that way of expressing affection, but at least I will know why and the risks of that why... Maybe we just need to try something truly different, what is that S&M stuff all about anyway... lol and I do mean LOL!! ;D
Yes we are a TEAM!!!
When does the book "HIV/AIDS for Dummies" get released.... ???
-
Hey Eric,
Just another thought: it doesn't have to be fucking..........there is a whole repertoire of things to do that might not confront the two of you with complicated thoughts about (re) infection etc.......
HUG
Coen
-
Can someone remind me what sex is please???
-
;D Certainly Manchester, travel 12 miles north sweet child n I'll remind you, LOL.
John
-
Serodiscordant couples are conceiving children the "natural" way with no infection of the HIV- partner provided the HIV+ has an undetectable viral load. I posted that thread on the clinical trials forum. This experiment is being held in Spain by "clinica sandoval".
-
A healthy and frank discussion like this can only lead to a favourable outcome. Wishing you and yours much happiness, Eric.
-
I would never want to harm will nor he I.. But here we are... No sex... Just love..
Signed, No Sex :-\
WOW!
After reading your post I doubt there could be a problem that the two of you couldn’t over-come in your lives together. You got me all goose bumps.
You also make me proud to be a gay person. And I only wish the best for you and Will. ;D
-
..........there is a whole repertoire of things to do that might not confront the two of you with complicated thoughts about (re) infection etc....... \quote
Coen, we are just simple mountain boys with not alot of city experiences... lol Sure I have seen pictures and stuff.. This is really sort of embaracing talking about sexual alternatives to the old (in & out).. I stop now... Eep.. ;)
Terry, you just made me really smile.. Thank you...
-
Eric always gives me goose bumps, but that's another story ;)
-
;) I feel very fortunate to have you all in my life.. That is a gift in of itself....
-
I'm not really familiar with re-infection, super-infection... hell, or even just plain old infection (I've just known about being poz for a few months). If multiple infections were really that common, it would seem that we'd be seeing a LOT more of them. By that I mean that folks that have a lot of unprotected sex would likely be exposed to multiple virus 'strains' and would seem to have more re-infections, etc.
I've done a bit of research online on this a while back and didn't find a lot. What I did find was pretty much in line with what Matt posted.
Take care and have fun!
David
-
Well Eric, looks like you got a boatload of advice on this one LoL...You gotta love this place!
But knowing you the way I do, I have the feeling you won't be able to relax and enjoy sex until you have researched all the angles. In this case KNOWLEDGE is power. So research away, and best of luck finding that magical, rare place of love and sex. It is such a powerful, wonderful place if you can get there. It "WILL" be worth all the effort. Keep on digging babe. And I hope you reach that place called Heaven on Earth.
xoxo
-
hi i'm new here and i have a similar problem except he doesn't know and i don't know how to tell him i am really scared i can't lose him he's all i've got someone please help
-
Hey Eric! I say go for it! Take things slowly at first and just work your way into it. You both obviously care for each other a whole lot, and that's what matters. Take a field trip together to a sex shop or something and buy some new things to play with, change it up some until you're both comfortable and ready. :)
love ya
-
Charlie, we were just talking about that on our next trip down to Denver... Maybe hit one of the gay bars which has been at least two years since doing that.. Probably hit the Triangle and see if the leather is out on a Saturday night. lol. ;D
-
Good deal! You know how much fun I had this past weekend goin out with friends :D Dust off those dancing shoes!
-
i'm confused. we're told here never to have unprotected sex even if both partners are pos. isn't that what's safer? or it doesnt apply if people are on meds and viral loads are low and all?
-
i'm confused. we're told here never to have unprotected sex even if both partners are pos. isn't that what's safer? or it doesnt apply if people are on meds and viral loads are low and all?
That's what they (the doctors) tell us here too. But most people (I think) end up realizing that it's not as big of an issue as they (the doctors) claim. I personally believe the bigger issue (if sex outside the relationship is a possibility) is the risk of contracting another STD. But for most couples in a stable relationship with stable HIV infections (especially if they are treatment), the risk of reinfection seems to range from extremely low (at worst) to practically non-existent (at best).
But at the end of the day, everyone has to come to a decision that they are comfortable with, cause each of us have different risk tolerance.
-
.
-
thank you i will do that
-
Eric, you said leather?
Now the repertoire becomes even bigger you know ;D
Enjoy your night out
HUG
Coen
-
.
-
I may not have a superinfection, but after having AIDS for 19+years do know that I have multiple strain infections.....We know this because when I do genotypes, sometimes I am non-resistant to drugs, then a few months later am resistant....then am non-resistant then resistant again....The doctors have determined that when I am non-resistant, the other strains are dormant and they switch off. However, all in all, I still am pretty healthy....still concerned about bb'ing but I guess for me the infection has occured so I sero sort my sex partners.
:)
I can't stop living just because of fear....and thrive on intimacy and passion.....
Be well...
-
Is there any recent data regarding the use of PReP for sero-discordant couples?
-
What I wonder is if super infection does happen, could the treatment naive partner have resistance now to those meds ? Question for the doc maybe. Good luck.
-
Perry Halkitas (sp?) in New York has done years and years of studies of sero-discordant and, perhaps, positive/positive couples which might be useful for the clinical end of the thinking/rethinking. I have always had Eric's issue with condoms, i.e. problems keeping things up with one on and so, with lot's of boyfriends, have bypassed them. But I never did so without a concern about what I was doing and since I am more passive than active, the same concerns about being fucked by a partner who is no wearing a condom: undetectable virus simply means it's not detectable to the limits of the testing; it's still very much there.
Another option which has been posted is things other then fucking like sucking which carry less of a risk factor according to most studies and might lead to other things. :) Then, as a former bodyworker (read masseur) I have worked on two couples (gay men) at the same time for the specific reason of bringing them back into intimate contact with each other (at which point I would leave them to continue things). As posted, changing the location, the bed, the approach has a useful way of allowing things to change course. You and your partner are still and always left having to think through your actions, make decisions and then allow yourselves to rethink them. Win
-
Wow, Eric I had no idea no sex.... Shoot, I am a single guy and diagnoised in January, as you know and had some fun, safe of course. I have the same problem with condoms. So I am careful for my partner's sake. My partner and I did try sex once and he used a condom, he don't care cause he knows what he wants, I have the issues with the whole scheme of things. Well, now my partner is starting to give me that look again, and I am running scared. Where I won't even spend the night, just incase things go there. I was really freaked out in our last safe encounter, and since he is negative, I am terrified to pass this on to him. I know what I want, but I am way to scared to go there, and then people say Condoms are not 100% so what do you do? I can not imagine a super infection, although I did the research and think maybe I will just go blind...... LOL. Or at least until my glasses are as thick as bottle caps. Just know I am thinking of you my friend, and wish you well. How about the female condom, would that work? I have read on that some too... I am not going to share any of my research, but it does sound promising for you. I hope you get some soon. Lots of love to you, my life saver... D
-
Communication. It's so important to not sit on/hide what you are thinking (your concerns about safe sex, what is safe sex, etc.). The other person can't always read what we are thinking inside. He/she may pick up that something is being thought, however, and that can lead to his/her guessing.
As for what is completely safe, nothing is. This is the problem we had as information specialists on the National Aids Hotline. Everyone understandably wanted something cut and dry as in cook the meat at x temperature for so many minutes and you will kill any germs/bacteria that might be present. With sex, condoms do in fact break. Sometimes it's the roughness of the sex. Sometimes it's the age of the condom, male or female. Sometimes it's the conditions under which the condoms were stored, all of which matter. At best, we can all aim at safe sex. We all must have our continuous discussions about it, talking about risks, etc.