Semen on Tissue Paper

[helppls]

I had a massage in Thailand. She remained fully clothed and there was no sex of any kind either penetrating or oral.  The only thing that happened was she masturbated me and whilst doing so she brushed my anus with her finger. She did not insert her finger into me . My concern is that what if she had cut her finger that touched my anus at some point and some blood came into contact with me down there? Should I be concerned, regardless of how remote that occurrence might be?  Or can I assume that even if she had cut her finger and even if she had inserted it into my rectum that that would still be no risk?   Thanks for any advice

[RapidRod]

No risk.

[helppls]

Thanks for your reply.  Is that the same answer for if she had inserted her cut finger into my rectum?   Once again thanks for any response.

[Andy Velez]

"What ifs" are never a good place to go in relation to HIV and HIV status.

HIV is a fragile virus. It is not easily transmitted. When exposed to the air it quickly becomes non-viable. It needs the kind of receptive setting which unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse provide in order for there to be the possibility of transmission taking place.

Your incident does not qualify as such. If she was HIV+ and if she had a freshly open wound from which HIV+ blood was pouring into a freshly open wound of yours there would be the POSSIBILITY of transmission. That's hardly the circumstance you have described. You are worrying needlessly.

There's no need for further concern nor for testing. 

[helppls]

You are both of course right.   Just me being irrational.  Thanks both for your sound informed advice

[Andy Velez]

You're welcome. Just make sure you use a condom everytime for vaginal or anal intercourse and you will be well protected against the sexual transmission of HIV.

Cheers.

[helppls]

Just coming back with one last question which may seem random but is connected.   Would you think that I would definitely know if she had inserted her finger into my anus?    The reason I ask is that I know she ran her finger down there and given my inexperience in this sort of thing, I think that was all she did. Ie she didnt insert into me.   

[RapidRod]

Just coming back with one last question which may seem random but is connected.   Would you think that I would definitely know if she had inserted her finger into my anus?    The reason I ask is that I know she ran her finger down there and given my inexperience in this sort of thing, I think that was all she did. Ie she didnt insert into me.   

Insert your finger in your ass and answer your own question.

[helppls]

Fair point.   Thanks once again

[helppls]

I went ahead anyway and had a test  even though I had been consistently told it was a no risk.  Just for peace of mind I guess.  It was at the 11 week 6 day mark,   Is that conclusive? ie 1 day short of 12 weeks?

[Ann]

help,

You are conclusively hiv negative. You do not need further testing over this NO RISK incident.

Ann

[helppls]

New worry...

I had a massage, she was fully clothed. She gave me a handjob at the end. She used some sort of cream whilst doing so.  I had no cuts etc on my penis.

My concern is what if...ye another what if...she had a bleeding cut and it got onto my uthera..was that a risk? It may have mixed with the cream and that was all over my penis

[Andy Velez]

Once again you are worrying needlessly. There was no risk no matter what spin you put on that experience.

As you have been told before, the only confirmed risks for sexually transmitting HIV ares through unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. That's it. Use condoms for those activities and you will be well protected. None of the other sexual activities including your latest are risks. Period.

[helppls]

Thanks Andy. Again.
I have no idea why I'm stressing on this.  Maybe guilt or maybe I have a phobia. Does such a thing exist?
Very strange and annoying. 

[Andy Velez]

Well if your guilt is because you have a partner and you have strayed or because you have some shame about this kind of experience, those are common reactions.

Guilt doesn't do anyone any good. You did what you did so accept that, take a breath and let it go. And get on with your life.

If you can't do that then get some professional help. We can't provide that in this setting. All we can tell you is that you don't have an HIV problem.

[helppls]

All excellent advice.  As always.  Thankyou

[Andy Velez]

You're welcome.

[helppls]

I know I shouldn't do this but I was looking at another site aidsmap.com and found that it said in relation to mutual masturbation:

There has been one case in which a South African man reported that his only possible route of exposure was by using the semen of his partners to lubricate his own penis whilst masturbating. (1988)

Is this possible do you think?

[jkinatl2]

1988? Please. HIV transmission theory has changed A LOT since then.

There is NO RISK for a massage. NO RISK for someone using their semen to lubricate another person's penis - which, by the way, is in no way related to YOUR concern.

You can stress over your behavior all you want, if it makes you feel better. But nowhere in HIV science will you find validation for your unfounded fear.

HIV is transmitted by unprotected anal or vaginal sex, sharing IV drug needles, and on rare occasion from mother to child during birth.

It really IS that simple.

HIV is NOT the boogeyman to punish you for transgressions. It is a pathogen - and a very delicate one, at that.

Please move forward with this information.

[helppls]

thankyou for your reply jkinatl2

I know I am irrational on this subject. Im trying not to be.

The reason I bought this case up, whilst it is not directly exactly the same as my experience, my irrational fear says to me, what if you replace 'semen' with blood? Maybe she had a cut somewhere on here hand, and it got on my penis. Maybe it was mixed with the cream she used, as she put it on her hand then onto my penis...I know..crazy.

[jkinatl2]

No. Because of two facts:

Science POST 1988 has RULED OUT the use of semen lubricant as a possible vector for HIV transmission. Patient report post-infection is unreliable

HIV is FRAGILE. It can NOT be transmitted through second-hand contact. You can absolutely nOT be infected through that route.

You can NOT get HIV through any methods other than having unprotected vaginal and / or anal sex.

Period.

[helppls]

I see what you are saying...it is very clear. I assume when you say that post 1988 it was ruled out that semen used as a lubricant can transmit, would this also be the case with blood?

[Andy Velez]

We're now going to get off of the "what if" cycle you have embarked on. We prefer to stick with what actually happened and evaluate risk accordingly.

With that in mind I say again you absolutely were not at risk. And I am going to warn you that if you continue to return about your non-risk incident you are going to find yourself getting a 28 day Time Out.

HIV is not your problem (again). Cut out the obsessing and get on with your life. Really.

[helppls]

I knew I was close to the time out thing..and I certainly deserve it.  Thankyou and the other experts for their answers.

[Andy Velez]

OK. Get on with your life.

[helppls]

I hope you dont mind but if I could ask another question. When experts say that for there to be any risk from mutual masturbation the person doing the masturbation needs to be bleed profusely. How profusely is that? to what extent to they need to be bleeding..?

[RapidRod]

■Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

[Ann]

help,

You'd both have to be bleeding so profusely that you'd be on your way to a hospital, not playing with each others genitals.

Post one more time about this NO RISK situation and you WILL be given that time out you've been warned about.

PLEASE CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED FOR THE LAST TIME!!!

Ann

[helppls]

may I ask if you have heard of the following veriosn of a test and if so your view?

Determine Abbott HIV I/II Ab+Ag

[Andy Velez]

Clearly you are still dragging around this unwarranted concern.

Oh well, for what it's worth the Abbott is an approved test.

[helppls]

It will be probably no surprise to the experts on here, given my irrational behaviour that seems to have persisted, that despite their expert and clear advice that I had No risk,  I went ahead and tested anyway, and yes it was negative.

What is clear, is that for me it doesnt matter what experts on here and on the helplines from highly reputable organisations advise, my mind won't allow me to rest until I have a test, regardless of the level or even lack of risk.

Therefore the clear conclusion for me, and it has for some reason taken me too long to realise this, is that I must do absolutely nothing that will prompt those irrational thoughts again, and I mean nothing outside of my marriage from sex to happy endings.  I am unable to seperate medical science from fear, so its better I admit that and proceed on that basis.

Finally, thakyou to the experts for their pantience with me over this and previous enquiries, you do a great and worthwhile job.

[Andy Velez]

You're welcome. Get on with your life.

[jkinatl2]

While that approach might well work, I certainly hope you don't befriend someone who has HIV. Regardless, best of luck to you in your endeavors.

[helppls]

I was in Amsterdam and I was in a peep/strip show in a cubicle on my own, viewing the stripper through the glass window. When I was about to ejaculate I reached for the roll of tissue paper attached to the wall and put the tissues against the end of my penis , and I then wiped my self clean using the tissues.  My concern, yes this is potentially OCD, is that whoever in the cubicle before me may have used the tissues in the same way and not disposed of them...then I have put my penis in their semen. I would also say that between me going into the cubicle and reaching orgasm was about 5 mins at least...

what do think of my risks here...?

[RapidRod]

I was in Amsterdam and I was in a peep/strip show in a cubicle on my own, viewing the stripper through the glass window. When I was about to ejaculate I reached for the roll of tissue paper attached to the wall and put the tissues against the end of my penis , and I then wiped my self clean using the tissues.  My concern, yes this is potentially OCD, is that whoever in the cubicle before me may have used the tissues in the same way and not disposed of them...then I have put my penis in their semen. I would also say that between me going into the cubicle and reaching orgasm was about 5 mins at least...

what do think of my risks here...?

You never had an exposure.

HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.

HIV is transmitted by;
Unprotected penetrative anal and/or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug users
Mother to child

[helppls]

so even if I had put the end of my penis in some semen (on the tissue paper) this would not be a risk...some may have got under my foreskin

[RapidRod]

so even if I had put the end of my penis in some semen (on the tissue paper) this would not be a risk...some may have got under my foreskin

Even if, you could have chewed the tissue paper with semen on it and still not been exposed. HIV is transmitted within the body.

[helppls]

Thanks rapid rod for your quick response.  May I also ask one of the global moderators to answer me too eg Andy ? 

[RapidRod]

Thanks rapid rod for your quick response.  May I also ask one of the global moderators to answer me too eg Andy ?

You sure can, they will they will be more than glad to tell you the same thing.

[Jeff G]

Thanks rapid rod for your quick response.  May I also ask one of the global moderators to answer me too eg Andy ? 

Rod is 100 % correct in his assessment and you should trust him .

[helppls]

Of course...thanks both

[Ann]

help,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep everything in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.




You've been coming to this website for over three years - you should know by now that what you're worrying about is NOT a risk for hiv infection.

It would seem that you have an irrational fear of hiv. We cannot help you with that here.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

[helppls]

Thanks Ann..and of course, as always you are correct in your comments

I do have an irrational fear and every time I tame down what I do..thinking I wont worry afterwards...Im wrong and I worry...too the pint that Im now worrying about tissue paper...good grief...!

Anyway..re thread cobining..I did find my old thread and I was about to add on to it but the message told me to start a new one ..unless I misunderstood...anyway thanks for merging and your clear and concise advice...

Regards...Lunatic  :-)

[Andy Velez]

You've been coming to this website for over three years - you should know by now that what you're worrying about is NOT a risk for hiv infection.

It would seem that you have an irrational fear of hiv. We cannot help you with that here.

You've already had enough responses telling you that once again you were not at risk. We're not going to indulge you in another round of what ifs and doubts. If you keep coming back about this non-risk or others like it, you are going to find yourself getting a Time Out from the site. All you have to do is re-read what's been said to you before about how to protect yourself.

[helppls]

I wasn't looking for any more responses .  I realise on this most recent episode that I have been given sufficient responses and I thank you for them....so I was not expecting any further advice.   Thanks anyway for all you guys do on here

[helppls]

Ok ..now the CDC , who as we all know are perhaps one of or the most conservative organisations with respect to hiv testing have changed their guidelines , announced on the 26th June 2014. Why am I still seeing recommendations (on this forum and others) that people wait until 3 months to confirm their status?

The CDC. Now say..and I quote:  By recommending the fourth generation tests as the first step in the new testing protocol, the CDC will effectively reduce the “window period” during which false negatives are likely. The new tests will detect an infection by about three weeks following exposure to the virus; with the older HIV tests, the window period could be as long as three months

Also I quote

"This will detect HIV in the blood earlier than previously recommended antibody tests by identifying the HIV-1 p24 antigen, a viral protein which appears in the blood sooner than antibodies," the CDC says.

If this initial test is negative, no further testing is needed.


As we also know other medical organisations especially in the uk have long since said that 4th generation lad based duo tests are conclusive at 28days, and it seems that the CDC are now in agreement.



Would you agree, and will you be changing your advice in line with this going forward?

[Jeff G]

Helpp ... we are not here to debate you . You have not had a risk for HIV to test for to begin with so move on and get on with your life .

[helppls]

Fair enough...no debate required. I was merely interested in whether you have changed your stance now, as a result of cdc changing theirs


I'll just read the forum with interest

Thanks for all your efforts and those of your fellow moderators.

[helppls]

Just a suggestion, and of course I will not presume to suggest how you do your excellent job here.
 But to maybe alleviate the confusion that already exists out there re testing times, in particular now with the new CDC guidelines ...you could clarify the current position on this?

As I say please ignore me if you feel this is not a helpful suggestion.

[Andy Velez]

Making some changes have been under consideration for sometime. But we're not going to get into further discussion about that at this time.