POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: bocker3 on August 16, 2012, 10:21:37 pm
-
I think most know on here that my partner, Sid and I are getting married soon -- Sept 1st. Plans are just about all wrapped up and we are greatly looking forward to this day -- and our subsequent honeymoon to Aruba.
Here is a story on how a family member can just elicit such incredible sadness.....
I have a rather religious aunt -- I have always been close and she has always been very welcoming of Sid. Still -- I was not surprised to get a decline from her for our wedding. That came ~6weeks ago.
Today a package and letter came in the mail. I thought, "wow -- a gift from her".
Here is the letter:
Dear Mike & Sid,
1. First, I love you dearly
2. I cannot attend your "wedding"
3. Mike, I am your Godmother. As such I have an obligation to educate you on God's Law.
God created the first "marriage" when he created Eve for Adam. He told them to "increase and multiply - fill the earth and subdue it." The primary purpose of marriage is procreation. That cannot happen with a a "same-sex" couple, therefore a "same-sex" couple cannot "marry".
Since 1989 I have been teaching religious education in my Parish. On many occasions I have had to explain the above to students who are not clear on what is required of marriage.
Next lesson: All sexual activity outside of a sacramental marriage between one man and one woman agreeing to have children (as many as God allows) is a very serious mortal sin that condemns one to the fires of hell for eternity. You have many relatives headed there if there is no repentance on their part. (I pray daily for all of my family + their "significant" other".) A practice of celibacy would be an excellent choice for you both.
According to Our Lady of Fatima in 107 "more souls go to hell for sins of the flesh than for any other reason." Scary!
Because I teach catechism and had my own major conversion (reversion), it would be the height of hypocrisy for me to attend your "wedding".
With love to you
and prayers for you
Aunt XXX
Yep -- that is verbatim. In the box -- a fresh copy of the New American Bible - with a list of passages we should focus on (yes, Leviticus 18:22-24 is one of them). Along with a copy for each of us of, Ten Prayers God Always Says Yes To. A sticky was on each telling us, if we couldn't read it all, at least read Chap 10 -- Titled: Why am I here, anyway? - God lead me to my destiny.
I want to be angry, but all I am is overwhelmed with sadness. :'(
Mike
-
Very sorry to hear your aunt is superstitious prude. I hope your wedding and trip to Aruba exceed your expectations.
-
Mike, you and Sid should get a chuckle out of her letter after all is said and done, it is not really worth any more than that. Her religious beliefs are shared by many but there are so many other fine folks who respect true love between two people and if she were as compassionate as Jesus she would accept and embrace you and would have attended this wonderful day for you guys. Instead she chose to send an overly pious and in the end a basically mean spirited note.
Besides more than a few Christians are seemingly using Leviticus for their own purposes to make a point, as your seemingly devout aunt so obviously desired to make. So her Old Testament references don't conflict with the uncompromising love of Jesus? Seems like a conflict she has herself and a conflict some people of the major faiths tragically have. And reform Jews who accept gays and lesbians, as rabbis in some temples, have basically rejected the teachings of Leviticus and its harsh judgements.
Have a great wedding and may Aruba be lots of fun for you, your continued good life is the greatest revenge of all !!!!!
Jody :-*
-
You should mail the bible back to her with Genesis 19: 32-36 highlighted and ask her where incest fits in with this holy plan.
That's just my first, angry reaction. Sorry you're having to deal with this, but consider what Jody has said. There really is no point in trying to have a rational conversation about this with her.
Just remember you have other family - blood and chosen - who love and respect you as you are.
My congratulations to the both of you.
-
I'm reminded of the great quote that many have probably heard. It went something like this: Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it. But, please don't whip it out in public and wave it around. And, please don't try to shove it down my throat.
I hate when people try to push their religious beliefs on others. I hate the "I'm going to pray for you" line. It is so condensing, while elevating them to feel better than others. I especially hate when Old Testament scriptures are used in regards to homosexuality. As we all know and have repeated many times, there are so many "sins" there. Working on the Sabbath, which would include even making a fire. Women should marry their rapists. Shellfish, etc, etc. How many of these people eat bacon and sausage for Sunday breakfast. I've said this about my own family members: If they lived the Bible to the letter (I mean everything), I would say they really live it fully, so I could overlook their stance against my happiness. But, none of them do and not even close, so I cannot deal with them picking and choosing.
I would probably send it back with all those things highlighted, and inquire how many sins Aunty is indulging in everyday. Religion has the potential to do so much good, but it often causes so many problems and causes divides.
I'm sorry your Aunt felt the need to tell you that you're going the Hell. I don't believe in Hell, but it would still hurt to have a family member say that, especially before an upcoming joyous day.
-
Dearest Mike
I can only echo what Jody said, I know you are looking forward to your special day with Sid, please don't let your Aunt spoil this.
Enjoy your wedding, I'm really looking forward to seeing the photo's.
Sending you both all the love in the world.
Aroha
Jan :-*
-
Dear Mike,
First of all, let me congratulate you :)
I hope your marriage and the honeymoon and everything else after that will go very well :)
I know it hurts now, but your aunt loves you. She would not have sent that message to you otherwise. She had to make a decision between her religion and you, and despite her love for you she couldn't abandon her beliefs and her views on life.
Do not let it spoil your happyness. Let's hope that she will realize her mistake. If she does, welcome her with an open heart.
Again, congratulations on your marriage, and I hope your days will be long and full of fullfillment :)
-
Congratulations on the wedding!
Boy, your aunt sure loves to use "quotes". I'd be inclined to just send the whole thing back and say you don't need her "present." And then follow it up with something along the lines of "From now on whenever you say that you love the sinner but hate the sin, I will say I love the believer but hate the belief." ::sigh::
-
Thanks all,
I woke up feeling a bit better about it all. My plan is to send the whole lot back to her with a little note.
I realize that she is 72 and grew up "in a different time" -- but then my parents are just about 71 and they will attending, as will 2 of her other brothers (1 of whom is also gay AND a deacon in the Catholic church). If my grandmother were alive, I'm sure she'd be giving my aunt an earful and I know would have attended, despite being a devout Catholic herself. She loved her family and left "judgement" to god.
At the end of the day, I know I can't change her -- but I do intend to give her something to think about -- and undoubtedly a whole lot more for her to add to her daily prayer work.
Hugs,
Mike
-
1 Corinthians 14:34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
She should also read the letters of Timothy as she is not following the edict that women should not usurp authority over men and should suffer in silence and not preach the word of God.
Or is she the type who only uses the portion of the Bible that fits her views?
Congrats on your upcoming wedding.
Greg
-
Heh...it isn't just us sodomites who have to deal with this sort of thing, though. A couple of years back when my fantabulous oldest sister was finally divorcing her total dickwad of a husband - MUCH to my vocalized delight - his mother (who is herself an ordained minister, which also contradicts scripture) used to send her bible passages.
She even highlighted her own particular talking points in red ink like she herself was god.
::)
-
@ Mike, Congrats on your weeding w/ you & sid :-*
I'm sorry that your godmother doesn't support you in your big decision :-[
but, you must look at it this way, Gay marriage isn't for everyone, and neither is AIDS ;)
however, Please don't let this Stop you guys, I admire what your both doing ;)
I agree w/ Jody, just take it for what it's worth.........a nice chuckle
Hugs
DEN :)
-
Mike,
I'm so sorry about this incident with your Aunt. I can imagine how hurtful it feels, especially at a time that is supposed to be joyous. And the decision to send you an entire Bible, and highlight the passages, is just very condescending.
Unfortunately, you are right -- you can't change your Aunt. All you can do is respond and tell her how you feel. I think that sending the Bible back with a brief message telling her that you are disappointed, hurt and angry would be appropriate.
I hope your wedding is wonderful!
Hugs to you and Sid.
Henry
-
Mike I have long believed that people hear what they want to hear and see what they want to see...I know that you and Sid are are seeing and hearing what is in your heart so have a great day and a super time in Aruba... ignore aunt and others who judge you....
Nick
-
Hey Mike, congratulations on the upcoming wedding.
I agree with what Jody said.. While your aunt may be set in her ways, there's nothing stopping you from sending the Bible back to her with a special gift inside. I dunno, maybe something like a photo of you and Sid getting married would be cool.
Share this special day with those who matter most.
Take care!
-
First, congratulations on your marriage.
Secondly, as a father, son, brother, uncle, godfather, and friend, I would not dream of inflicting that level of harshness and judgment on someone I consider a loved one who also has found someone to love.
Also, I find the following excerpted from Thunter's post so spot on:
Just remember you have other family - blood and chosen - who love and respect you as you are.
Sending all my best.
-
While your aunt may be set in her ways, there's nothing stopping you from sending the Bible back to her with a special gift inside. I dunno, maybe something like a photo of you and Sid getting married would be cool.
Take care!
That was my thought right off the bat !! Send the bibles back to your aunt, with as many photographs as you can of your's and Sid's special day.
Show her the smiling, happy faces that go along with all weddings. I would even save her a piece of cake.
Your aunt sounds very similar to an aunt of mine from many years ago. ( even her own brothers and sisters eventually turned away from her) She made Jerry Falwell, and Jimmy Swaggert look like saints. She was a minister of her church, but she died when I was about 18.
Congratulations, on the upcoming marriage, and have a great wedding and honeymoon ! 8)
Ray
-
I am beside myself today. My sadness has turned into a seething rage and I don't know what to do with it.
Sid broke down in tears today -- my aunt's letter has been haunting him and dredging up all the good ol' Catholic guilt from his upbringing. When our cat, Charlie, took ill yesterday and I had to leave him in the ICU, it became the straw that broke his back.
We are 2 weeks from what should be a happy day for us and here we are -- I am red with fury and he is having crying spells all due to a completely unnecessary and hateful message that was, of course, delivered with 'love'. Man, those fucking pious souls sure do know how to mix up love and hate...........
Oh well -- I needed a vent -- Now I have to just go have a cry myself.
M
-
You vent all you need to - BOTH of you - until your day is rightfully happy again.
Tell Sid that I said hey, too.
-
Oh honey, don't let it get to you, if you do she has succeeded, if that was her intent
this is & will be the happiest day for the both of you, so you two can cherish that forever, this isn't about her
it's about the two of you guys ;)
Hugs
DEN
-
Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials.
You could send her a faux-serious reply over her wall of text. Basically ask her, since she references Leviticus, how she avoids shellfish, wearing cloth of mixed fibers, etc.
You could also ask her since she's so fond of Leviticus, if she's all right with you owning a slave? (This one could be doubly fun if the slave in question was akin to Mr. Slave of South Park fame.) Tell her another wedding invitee has decided to give you one as a wedding gift. Ask her to clarify your responsibilities according to the bible.
Ask her how much all those doves cost that she sacrificed over the years. Ask her what it was like sequestering herself monthly as her period made her unclean in the eyes of the lard.
Well, you get the idea. Have fun with it.
Here is a Reddit thread talking about this very thing. http://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/x65jh/fantastic_resource_for_tearing_apart_biblebased/
I live in fundie central. I deal with this attitude daily. :/
Ex-altar boy, too. Tell Sid the best cure for catholic guilt is good ol' everyday gay hedonism. :D
-
Hug your fiance and cry together. :)
Talk about it and together you can make it all go away :D
-
Hi bocker3!(and Sid)
Congratulations on your forthcoming wedding!!!!!!!!!You have each other.....thats a priceless gift.....more precious than anything else.
Please look forward ....have a wonderful day....and remember its all about you and Sid.....!!!!!
Congrats again!
Hugs
Britchick!
-
Hi Mike
I hope you and Sid are feeling a little better about things today.
Remember you are going to be surrounded by family and friends who love you, support you want to see you guys get married, concentrate on them and forget your Aunt...I know it's easier said than done, but please, please don't let her spoil your day.
Miss you, and love to Sid.
Aroha
Jan :-*
-
As Jan and others have pointed out Mike and Sid don't allow any guilt derived from the belief systems of some others spoil your day. You should be happy, proud and content. Don't let the misguided opinions of others ruin the time before your big day. Being from New England, if your aunt is, she may have a little bit of Puritan in her and don't forget the Puritans greatest fear was that somebody somewhere was happy!!! :) ;) :D ;D :-*
Jody
-
Thanks again to all for your support.
We have put this unpleasantness behind us and are ready to move on. Tomorrow is my last day at work for 2 weeks (Sid is working through Wed).
Just about all plans / details are set. We leave for Mass. on 8/30 and the wedding is a week from Saturday.
And.......... our cat, Charlie, made it through his stint in ICU with pulmonary edema. He is now back to his old self -- albeit, he is now up to 4 pills a days -- trying to catch up to daddy, I guess. Thankfully, his are all generic and Target has them at $4/Rx..... wish daddy could say the same.
I will try to get a pic or two up prior to leaving for Aruba, but can't guarantee it as we leave early the morning after the wedding.
Hugs,
M
-
We leave for Mass. on 8/30 and the wedding is a week from Saturday.
Congratulations! That is extremely awesome. Best wishes and happiness to the two of you for many many more years to come! :-*
-
Many , many congrats to you both , I am sure you will have a wonderful day and a loving honeymoon.
I think I understand both the sadness and the anger involved with your Aunt , such a waste for her , blocked from celebration .
However dear you two must make up for her block and have the best of best.
m
-
I just want to say Congrats on you and Sid and your upcoming nuptials!! It so nice when one someone from "our family" is getting married! I'm giddy with excitement for you!
Love you!
-Will
PS- dont let Aunt sourpuss ruin it ;)
-
Mike, I'm not sure how I managed to miss posting my well-wishes up to now. I'm so happy for you and Sid that I could just blow a gasket! I hope you have a wonderful day and a fantastic honeymoon.
As for your aunt - tell her that you have people all over the world wishing you well and who couldn't be more happy for you. Bet she couldn't say that about any event in her own life. I'm glad you're not letting her get you down. I kinda feel sorry for her - she'll be missing out on something magical. That's what real love between two people feels like - magical.
Can't wait to see some photos!
Hugs and congratulations to you and Sid,
Ann
xxx
-
I'm sorry I'm so late in replying, but I call bullshit on your aunt and if it were my aunt I'd call her on the phone to say the same thing. This is political. You said your aunt was very accepting of Sid. And now all of the sudden, it's her "duty" as Godmother to inform you about certain things the Bible says? In other words, she was happy to let you screw yourselves into Damnation all this time, but when you decide to get married, that's when she wants to step in and save you? I guess she thinks you are shoving something in her face and she's shoving back the only thing she's got, something she thinks can't be disputed.
I know it's too late now, but I wish you'd called her and told her that this whole thing is about your happines, not her faith, which by the way cannot be proven one way or another until you are both dead. And get off her high horse and come have a drink with the family.
-
So, I thought I'd close this thread with sharing my response to my Aunt. A big thanks for all your support and a special shout out to Creighton -- I stole a line from you - it was perfect!!
Dear Aunt XXXXX,
I am returning your “presents”. We do not need them, as we clearly believe in very different Higher Powers.
It is unfortunate that you chose to politicize my happiness. You tried to cover it as “preaching” – but seeing as you had nothing to say about our path to hell over the last 22+ years, I have to believe that it was the fact that we wanted to legitimize our relationship with THE STATE that set off this “need”. There really is no other way for me to look at this sudden need to “educate” me – I mean it was fine for us to fornicate our way to hell (in your view), but having a CIVIL MARRIAGE was just too much.
I thought twice about inviting you, but decided that you might be able to see it for what it was and what it was not. It WAS a celebration of love with family and friends. It WAS NOT a religious ceremony in any way. I was not surprised by your decline to the invite, but I was so incredibly saddened with your letter and “gift” that there are no words. There was also rage, as your words caused Sid to be greatly upset and his tears burned through me. This simply was not necessary. It was about as un-Christian a thing as I can recall having happened to me. I do recall from my upbringing, that it was God’s duty to judge others – not ours.
So, I wish you could have simply come and enjoyed time with family.
If you truly feel that your God would be offended or upset with you for showing love to a family member, then I am so very glad to have removed myself from your church. That would be a God that I could not believe in.
Finally – I am including a photo from our day. I hope you look at it and see the joy we had. We have been together for over 22 years – how many in our family have that longevity in their one man-one woman relationships?
There is no need to further contact me about this or any matter. I now consider it closed. Costly, but closed.
Mike
-
wow. I love it.
I mean I hate that there was even a need to have to send something like that to a family member but I agree it was the right thing to do and you did not mince words.
-Will
-
After that letter, I am certain your Aunt needed some comfort food. A slice of wedding cake would have done the job. :P
It's unfortunate, but the letter was well written, and, it needed to be written !
Ray
-
good job Mike,.....sometimes a straight talk is what is needed.... just say what you think and believe......
Nick
-
Congratulations X 2!
First for your wedding and second for your letter.
She fundamentally altered the relationship that you had with her by presenting you with her "gift".
I hope you both are moving on with joy.
Mitch