Longer than a year undetectable antibodies or undetectable STRAIN of the virus??

[moonshine]

Dear All,The  visitors of this forum,

Especially those who are familiar and know more about the virus, I know that much has been said and I dont think, that my case is unique, but simply dont know, what to think and at the moment can not get the answers from anywhere else, but probably you, beleiving, that you would know.
I had protected sex with a hooker exactly a year and 8 months ago.As the condom split up and the lady had her periods, I saw blood on my penis (badly covered), but she said there was no big problem, I decided to get tested for all STIs.  4 days after that vaginal intercourse I developed mild fever 37.4C ,also really very bad inability to concentrate attention on the subjects and very quick tiredness,inability to fulfill simple tasks ( couldnt dial a phone number properly), memory loss,which lasted for 2-3 weeks and then resolved slowly, but still lasted for another few weeks after that and were of very unusual nature.Tried not infect anyone especially my girlfriend and waited for 3 and then 6 and 12 months to test for HIV and prepared myself for worse result, being positive. I wouldnt say I was really scared,had too big troubles through life.
  . Eventually all the results turned out to be negative and everything was OK, although 2-3 months ago I had one of my lymphonodes swallen and the another, under my hands, in that hairy area,which resolved in a few days. I didnt take much notice,because the tests came negative, but 20 days ago to this thread I had them both swallen again and hot.Then the kind of feeling developed ( inability to concentrate attention, very slight dizziness and sometimes upset stomach,memory loss).Lymphonodes increase and decrease, at the moment one is increased. I have been to my doctor, who didnt say a lot.
My question are:
Wheather there could be a much longer period for not developing antibodies,because of immune illnesses or
I had really bad immune system in my childhood?
Or there could be a strain of virus, for example O strain, which is not detectable by the ELISA tests?
Thanks for reading, would really appreciate any sort of comments.

[moonshine]

Nobody seems to know anything....

[RapidRod]

O is detected by the ELISA test and your test confirms that you are HIV negative. If you can't except your results, seek the help of a mental health professional.

[moonshine]

Yes, Rod, theres no probs with my results and Im not feeling concerned either, about contracting HIV, the only thing new girl wants to ahve a baby. And Im having this condition now.
I was curious if theres any strain, that can not be detected???
As far as I know some of the strains can be found in Africa, which are not detectable, but still a few were registered in other parts of the World. And there were a few cases of individuals not producing antibodies at all, I think, that was a Canadian study. Im not saying, that Im acctually having it, but as an option was going to have a PCR test or CDr counts TEST, or speak to an AIDS medical advisor ( which you could easily also be)

[RapidRod]

Do you live in the US? If so, you don't have to worry about the types or the strains. The ELISA test at three months would of correctly identified it. You are negative.

[Andy Velez]

You have reliably tested negative for HIV. You are HIV negative. Period. End of story.

If you are having unprotected intercourse with your girlfriend and consider it to be a monogamous relationship, it's a good idea to get tested together and confirm that you're both HIV negative.

As far as your immune problems as a child that doesn't seem as if it would be relevant in adulthood unless you are having the same problems you had as a child. Discuss it with your doctor if you are in doubt. I think it is very unlikely that it is a relevant issue at this point.

If you're still having symptoms that concern you that's also something to discuss with your doctor. Otherwise I don't see any reason to doubt the validity of your HIV test result. 

[moonshine]

No,Rod, originally I have come from Eastern Europe,Russia, but permanently living in London now. All of my tests I have done in the country of origin, including a PCR test, but I doubt they are designated for some particular strains as we dont have any black or ethnic communities at all. Moreover I read, that CDC ( and you definitely know such info, suggests, that anyone who has resently come back from Africa, cant be the blood donor...). My case is a puzzle either here in London and there and anywhere in the World, I have some doubts about the accuracy of the tests also in US and would say some persantage could go undetected.

[moonshine]

Thanks Andy,
I was waiting for your reply, seen it a few times on different threads. You are right, of course, on the basis of common sense it shouldnt make sense, but I didnt have many worries about until I started having health problems. To make it clearer I was going to have another HIV test in London and if turns out to be negative seek medical advice?? I may have a private CD counts, or the most complicated blood analysis.Of course it could be not HIV, but there must be some health disorder. Im on this web site, because I value your opinion as, probably, one of the most professional in the world

[Andy Velez]

The emergence or the continuation of undiagnosed health problems does not by default mean your negative HIV test results were incorrect. As so often happens here in our experience, an anxious person patches together a bunch of quasi-scientific bits and continues to come up with yet more possibilities of why symptoms MUST BE related to HIV. No valid basis in HIV science of course, but the mind caught up with HIV jitters
is capable of endless scare explanations.

Go ahead an re-test if you want to. I don't see any valid reason to expect other than a negative HIV result again.

I suggest that you and your doctor(s) have to look elsewhere for an explanation of your symptoms.

[moonshine]

But as far as I understood the fact of  Longer than a year undetectable antibodies or undetectable STRAIN of the virus can not be dismissed.
As CDC clearly states, that they dont accept blood from certain groop of donors

[moonshine]

I simply tried to find the expert answer, what else could be done

[Ann]

But as far as I understood the fact of  Longer than a year undetectable antibodies or undetectable STRAIN of the virus can not be dismissed.
As CDC clearly states, that they dont accept blood from certain groop of donors

Moon,

The reason the CDC doesn't accept donors from people recently arrived back from Africa is because they may still be in the window period.

Think about your reasoning here. If there truly were "undetectable strains", then how would we know they exist in the first place? If you have hiv, the tests used today - even in Russia - would have detected it.

You do NOT have hiv. Whatever is going on with you has nothing to do with hiv. Please work with your doctor to find out what is going on - you have conclusively ruled hiv out of the picture. Lymph glands can swell for all sorts of reasons - including checking them all the time. Constant touching can make them swell and keep them swollen, so keep your hands OFF and show them to a doctor.

You are hiv negative. You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Ann

[moonshine]

Thanks, Ann, for your reply, but there are simply to many things to ignore and I would definitely have a few check ups as I have very serious grounds for it.
As to CDC its clearly says, that there are a few strains WHICH COULD NOT BE DETECTED BY SIMPLE ANTIBODY TESTS, but probably other tests.
Im simply in a puzzle now and dont know what to do  , thats why Im here

[RapidRod]

I don't know why you are here either. We've given you the facts and that is all there is to it. There is nothing more we can do for you on this forum.

[ACinKC]

Thanks, Ann, for your reply, but there are simply to many things to ignore and I would definitely have a few check ups as I have very serious grounds for it.
As to CDC its clearly says, that there are a few strains WHICH COULD NOT BE DETECTED BY SIMPLE ANTIBODY TESTS, but probably other tests.
Im simply in a puzzle now and dont know what to do  , thats why Im here

I would then call the CDC and offer yourself up to science.  Make sure you tell them you have an invisible virus that is completely undetectable but that you are 100% certain that you have it.  I am sure they will pay for your flight to Atlanta to begin immediate testing on this new strain YOU say you have.

You are HIV negative and NONE of your symptoms sound remotely like HIV infection.

[moonshine]

Can someone explain me please, without any other comments, where I can get tested for rare HIV strains especially for HIV 1 as acctually suggested on this forum?? I simply need to know answer, folks. Im unwell

[RapidRod]

Anywhere and any test. You aren't testing for strains you're being tested for antibodies.

[moonshine]

Yes, Rod, but on this forum it clearly says how the antibodies develope and you obviously know where to find this information on it?? I can cite it, but thats I dont think necessary. Especially my symptoms are almost 2 years onwards.Do you think depression can cause seriously enlarged lymphonodes???That can be noticed by anyone.
One of the parts of this site says about different strains, but provided I didnt have any symptoms I wouldnt be looking for the answers after such a long time.

[moonshine]

Im not depressed, but smply unwell

[RapidRod]

Then get your ass of the computer and see a doctor. You can't get well by sitting at a computer.

[madday]

Why people just can not take into account that something hiv like is spreading around the world by sexual contacts?? By this attitude we risk the liefs of others who will join this web site with strange hiv like symptoms!

We should do something! I BEG YOUR HELP!!!

[RapidRod]

madday, stay in your own thread. Do not post in other's threads.

[moonshine]

Yestery been t the doctor, with my negative result....
But as I acctually expected he didnt tell much new, although I was pleased, that he admitted Epstein Barr on my tongue and said, that only occurs in immuno-supressed conditions, but obviously by his carelessness and the directive of WHO, he didnt even check my lymphonode, which is big enough to be visible. I also complained him about the long time upset stomach.
The only thing acctually, Im not blaming him, this is the wrong attitude arranged by WHO towards this infection, TO RELY only on the OLD ELISA test. Why OLD?? As the virus, thanks to mother evolution is much faster changing its structure, than a few smart heads in the headquarters of WHO can think of it, thus giving the instructions to health providers to relief those "SCARED ONES" of being infected with words like "THE ONLY ANSWER IS THE TEST", which you can fully trust.
But even thinking simply logically, one would definitely understand, that eventually there could be many more loke HIV-1, HIV-2 or other strains not detectable by the ELISA. Certainly, there's not much can be done about it, but the clynical part or complaints about poor health, must be strongly considered and ELISA itself shouldnt be the final answer to seroconversion. There wee so many mistakes before, which were not taken into consideration: after HIV 1, HIV 2 appeared, which was not easy to test with simple then existing assays and then appeared strains O and N and still that was not enough. There seem like something else has to happen to draw their attention.
Why would I come to this forum after 1 year and 8 months???After a few tests done on me and confirmatory test showing negative result?? Because initially I had really bad symptoms and when they have resolved and I had after 12 months last test done, I thought everything was OK, obviously apart from hairy TONGUE, which I didnt pay attention a lot to, but no, last two weeks I had something bigger.
1. Lymphonode enlarged and the other one occasionally.
2. Upset stomach
3. Dimentia for 2 weeks approx.
And then this forum advising also abou different strains.

[moonshine]

Madday seems to have a similiar problems. Maybe HIV or maybe not??
But 26 years ago nobody knew what HIV was.

[RapidRod]

Seek out professional mental health help. This forum can not be of further help to you. If the facts of science can't convince you, we at AidsMeds sure won't be able to. Seek out the help you really need.

[Ann]

moon,

Stress is one of the biggest and most common immune system suppressors. It sounds to me like you are stressing yourself sick. As has been suggested, you need to seek out a mental health care professional to help you deal with your stress. We cannot do that for you here.

The ELISA test detects antibodies, not the virus itself. It would still pick up antibodies to whatever strain of hiv. If it isn't picking up antibodies to hiv, then whatever is giving you physical problems isn't hiv. It's something else.

Ann

[moonshine]

Im sure theres an explaination to all of this, Ann, the only thing I dont want to wait with it until too late. Just imagine for a moment, I read your profile, that after HIV-1 were discovered new strains which were not easy to test with that time existing assays and strange enough, that you cant accept this, as you were the witness of that, you must have seen that information everywhere on TV, newspapers and radio....In fact, Im not acctually saying, that I have some new extraordinary strain, but I definitely caught something on that day, and trying to make the assumptions. But as Im not very much acknowledged with that, on the basis of general logic, and especially on the basis of symptoms and the facts THAT AT SOME POINT MANY STRAINS WERE actually missed, by old generation ASSAYS, also taking into consideration, that the virus as 1000 times more changable, that the flu, I have come to such assumption and was seeking help here, as I have been to general practitionares and there was not enough info. I believe the same thing was with those who had HIV-2 in 1986 and later strains O and N, until they became seriously ill, nobody was taking their complaints about their health seriously, until they started developing symptoms not related to any other disease.
But for now, theres no point for me to argue on this forum as Im smart enough and cool not to do so apart from that, willingly or unwillingly due to the nature of our conversation you cant b helpfull to me, I strongly believe, thats because of the WHO direct instructions to the health providers, which even not no, but would have to be definitely with no doubts revised. I decided to go and have the CD 4 counts done, just checked on internet and didnt find, that many in London, but will double check once again there must be some places, which would do it commercially, even if you come with "NEGATIVE" result. That definitely would bring much clearance to the issue discussed, say if they are 500-1000 it means everything is fine if less, then it means theres a problem with health, maybe HIV or something else. But if they are 800, thats a very good sign. Im not mad not even slightly depressed not suppressed by something or someone the only thing I really had something wrong with my health and thats y Im here after 1 year and 8 months on this forum.

[RapidRod]

Your here because you can't face the fact that you are negative. We can not help you with that, nor does it do use any good to try. You have your mind set. So go take all the test you want to take and be done with it.

[Andy Velez]

Moon, you're absolutely correct. We can't help you. We've told you what we know to the best our ability.

It's time for you to seek help elsewhere. Good luck to you with getting your concerns resolved successfully.

[moonshine]

You coulddefinitely help. The best way, you could tell me, what other methods could be used to establish the cause of the problem.
Im not the idiot, whos tembling and shaking sitting here and typing all of those posts because I kissed someone...Pardon me if someone has taken word "idiot" as for himself

[Matty the Damned]

Moon,

I don't know if the poll at the top of your thread has always been there or if you've added it recently. I presume you've added it lately because of the low number of votes.

Such polls are useless in the Am I Infected forum and tend only to cause problems. Perhaps you should remove it or ask a moderator to do so.

MtD

[moonshine]

With all respect to all the visitors of this forum and I would say using this forum I want to raise this problem as high as possible, although its been raised, but not sufficiently enough.
I believe, that this part of the forum is the ideall place for that poll.
And anyone having his or her opinion can express it.

[milker]

The problem is that you're not reading or understanding what was said to you before. Read Ann's post: "The ELISA test detects antibodies, not the virus itself. It would still pick up antibodies to whatever strain of hiv.". The mutations have nothing to do with the antibodies. All mutants have something in common (I won't go into details), and the antibodies are always the same, based on this common feature that never changes (if it changed the virus would die). So when you get tested using elisa it checks for those specific anti-hiv antibodies, it doesn't check for the virus (or its variants) itself.

In essence, your poll question doesn't make sense.

Milker.

[moonshine]

Do you want me to find you on the interenet quite a lot of examples in the very recent years, when HIV was missed because of the ELSIA ASSAYS. Why wouldnt you simply understand, that Im having lymphonodes enlarged,( of which nobody was interested ) upset stomach and hairy leukoplakia, which was admitted by the doctor, but because of that test ignored!!!!
Why would I be sitting here after the 2 years?? Thats the only way to get to the truth

[milker]

You can find talking potatos on the internet. I was commenting on your poll, not about your symptoms. I'm HIV+ and my doctor cannot feel my lymph nodes. I'm sure you have read many many posts on here and saw the consistent answers from Ann and Andy about symptoms. I won't elaborate. Some people take ETKM (Every test known to mankind) and still think they're HIV+ even though every test comes back negative, what can I say? You will not be the first one in the world to be HIV+ with no reactive test.  Unless you want to be.

Milker.

PS: old vs new Elisa tests are just changes in the reactive time, but they've always been testing the same thing.

[Matty the Damned]

Do you want me to find you on the interenet quite a lot of examples in the very recent years, when HIV was missed because of the ELSIA ASSAYS. Why wouldnt you simply understand, that Im having lymphonodes enlarged,( of which nobody was interested ) upset stomach and hairy leukoplakia, which was admitted by the doctor, but because of that test ignored!!!!
Why would I be sitting here after the 2 years?? Thats the only way to get to the truth

Yeah, I can find examples of just about anything on the internet. You know that the moon landing was faked, that the British Royal Family are in fact reptile aliens in disguise and Paris Hilton is a worthwhile human being who has made a meaningful contribution to society.

That doesn't make them true.

The hard fact is that ELISA assays do not produce false negatives when they are used correctly by appropriately trained healthcare professionals.

Moonshine, you are a recidivist Worried Well who simply cannot accept that HIV is not the cause of your problems. Whilst you're entitled to your beliefs, you're not entitled to come into this place and stir up discontent with your outlandish and patently false claims.

It's time for you to move on. We cannot help you any further.

MtD

[Ann]

Moon,

I'm calling a halt to this right now. You say you want to know "The best way, you could tell me, what other methods could be used to establish the cause of the problem."

Keep working with your doctor. Adapt a healthy lifestyle. Quit smoking - if you smoke. (smoking is a big cause of OHL) Seek out the help of a mental health care professional to deal with your anxiety. Anxiety causes a whole host of physical symptoms.

There is nothing more we can do for you here. I'm giving you a four week time out to encourage you to get the face-to-face help you need.

Do not create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned, no questions asked.

Ann

[Antiflood]

I dont know, why would you want to ban me??? Did I offend someone???Was I actually rude or soemthing else was done against the rules of the forum???Yes I expressed my position and asked for help, meaning any information, that could be usefull. Unfortunately, that information I was provided with was, as to my knowledge, not up to date, thatswhy I refused to accept it and even if I wouldnt have HIV, theres obviously strong point of what Im saying. Well you may consider me to be insane or simply stressed, but I know myself and I know my body, better than anyone else and Im not going to change anything. The only thing I was going to stay on this forum as I wanted to discuss the thread with those who could be interested.
And I wasnt even warned of something.....That I would be banned.
You, of course with the idea of unbreakable and the most reliable ELISA tests, would never accept it, that YOU COULD BE,not even in my case, but in the future could be responsible for somebodies health or life, by saying, that ELISA test gives 100% information, trying to calm down those who kissed someone and think they could be HIV positive. Although even on this frum it says CLEARLY if you think that you could be infected with rear subtype ( though it could have been just simple virus mutant, it happens quite a lot, not 1% or something) you should seek medical assistance.

SO WHATS WRONG HAS HAPPENED?? THA I HAVE BEEN BANNED?WHY???
BECAUSE SOMEON DOESNT WANT TO CREATE PANIC??
NO IM NOT CREATING, JUST TRIED TO DISCUSS IT, EVEN IF YOU DIDNT WANT ME TO POST SOMETHING ON IT, YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID THAT TO ME.


Regards moonshine

[Antiflood]

The same thing with the POLL, its been reset by the moderator for no reason???

I have always thought, that forums were created to discuss things on them.

Regards moonshine

[thunter34]

Well, for one thing, you aren't supposed to create multiple accounts to get around a Time Out (as Ann specifically stated in the post just above yours).  So you will likely be getting permanently banned for this now. 

EDIT:  The original TO (as stated) was simply to encourage you to take yourself to a medical professional to address your health concerns...something we simply cannot do from here over the internet.  Now, however, you will probably be banned for deliberately disregarding the rules for posting on this site.

[ACinKC]

You need to seek professional help moonshine.  You are being reported and should be banned shortly.

Oh and if you are so convinced you have HIV, have your Dr start ya on meds.  Those are a REAL treat!  (to everyone else...this is NOT a serious reccomendation)

[Ann]

Moon,

We don't allow opinion polls in this forum. This forum is based on fact, not opinion polls.

You were not banned, you were given a time out for the reasons I stated. You weren't the first to be timed out of this forum and you won't be the last.

However, you ARE banned now as creating multiple accounts IS a bannable offence. Bye!

Ann

[thunter34]

Farewell moonshine and antiflood.  Hope you get the help you need.