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Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits => Nutrition & HIV => Mensaje iniciado por: Jeff G en Diciembre 22, 2013, 09:40:28 am

Título: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Jeff G en Diciembre 22, 2013, 09:40:28 am
The NY times posted this today . Its worth a read because so many people assume if you can buy it its safe . I found this particularly troubling .

  But a federal law enacted in 1994, the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, prevents the Food and Drug Administration from approving or evaluating most supplements before they are sold. Usually the agency must wait until consumers are harmed before officials can remove products from stores. Because the supplement industry operates on the honor system, studies show, the market has been flooded with products that are adulterated, mislabeled or packaged in dosages that have not been studied for safety.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/us/spike-in-harm-to-liver-is-tied-to-dietary-aids.html?_r=0
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: buginme2 en Diciembre 22, 2013, 10:27:52 am
I just read this article and was going to post it also.   This really is alarming and a failure of governments to properly regulate the industry.

I used to take supplements for working out.  I stopped years ago.   You know what, I'm in better shape now.   They really don't do much of anything anyway. 

 Most are unnecessary placebos.  I  wish the government would have tighter regulations.

Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Ann en Diciembre 22, 2013, 10:58:50 am

 Most are unnecessary placebos.


And that's pretty much "official" now.

Vitamin pills are a waste of money, usually offer no health benefits and could even be harmful, a group of leading scientists has said.

A study of nearly 500,000 people, carried out by academics from the University of Warwick and the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine in Baltimore, USA, has delivered a damning verdict on the claims made by the vitamin supplement industry.


Read more here: Vitamin pills are a waste of money, offer no health benefits and could be harmful - study (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vitamin-pills-are-a-waste-of-money-offer-no-health-benefits-and-could-be-harmful--study-9010303.html)

I've said it before and I'll say it again; supplements are good for one thing - giving you expensive pee.
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Bizkits en Marzo 27, 2014, 09:16:00 am
Read the aforementioned study correctly and be very clear on what it's saying so that you aren't confused, or confuse others. It first states:

"Dietary supplements account for nearly 20 percent of drug-related liver injuries that turn up in hospitals, up from 7 percent a decade ago, according to an analysis by a national network of liver specialists. "  The boy featured in this article had taken some kind of concentrated green tea extract pills for weight loss.

It then also states later on:

"More popular supplements like vitamins, minerals, probiotics and fish oil had not been linked to “patterns of adverse effects,” he said. "

There is a significant difference between vitamins and "[dietary] supplements". Dietary supplements, exercise and weight loss pills are DANGEROUS! They are sweeping through this country like wildfire and there is so little known about them. They are not approved by the FDA, not considered a "medication" so they cannot be regulated either. Their interactions with other medications or even actions in your body are just not known! They stake claims to rejuvination, weight loss, increased energy, better sex life, smooth skin, bla bla bla. And maybe some of the effects they claim to have are true but at what cost.

Again, though these supplements are NOT vitamins.

Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Ann en Marzo 27, 2014, 09:26:27 am
Vitamins can be dangerous too - ever hear of hypervitaminosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis)?

And taking megadoses of things like vit C just gives you expensive pee, rather than really protecting you against anything.

If folks want to take vitamin supplements even when they probably don't actually need them, that's fine with me. I suppose someone has to line the pockets of the vitamin companies' CEOs and keep their factory minions in jobs. :)
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Bizkits en Marzo 27, 2014, 09:55:34 am
Well sure, of course I have. But firstly, to get hypervitaminosis one would need to ingest massive quantities of certain kinds of vitamins, mostly your fat-soluable vitamins because they build up stores. Water soluable vitamins like vitamin C will build up to a certain level and "spill over" in your urine. They also have a very short life in your body to begin with.

The same thing can happen if you drink too much water for that mater. Ever heard of water intoxication or water toxicity? It can cause serious electrolyte imbalances in your body causing CNS disturbances, brain damage or even death. Water...something we all need to live.

Vitamins are good :) They do need though be taken correctly and responsibly, like any other medication. Also what vitamin regimen might be good for one person isn't necessarily the same mix the next would benefit from.
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: okchan en Mayo 07, 2014, 01:07:46 am
is it an "accepted fact" that hiv infected persons lack certain vitamins/minerals in their body? or just a theory thing?
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: mecch en Junio 01, 2014, 05:13:34 pm
is it an "accepted fact" that hiv infected persons lack certain vitamins/minerals in their body? or just a theory thing?
It is not an accepted fact and not even a theory.  Everyone with HIV is different and diets all over the world are different and who is to say who, where, is not getting enough nutrition from their diet?  How can there be a rule about this?
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: wolfter en Junio 01, 2014, 06:20:29 pm
I would go as far to suggest that HIV+ people shouldn't take anything without their doctor's knowledge.  I understand all my lab results before entering his office.  If I recongize something a bit off kilter, he'll address it if it's a major concern.

I have great discussions with my doctor because I don't waste our time dealing with nonsense.  When he suggested I stop taking my multi-vitamin, I debated for a while then did so. 

I don't know what to make of some pozzies who have no difficulty taking daily supplements of every make and concoction daily without fail then suddenly are alarmed at the thought of taking a pill every day.  And this pill has been studied.  ;)

Getting ready to go finish my even supplement now.  :)  at least I recognize of the dangers of excessive wine.

wolfie
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Since1993 en Julio 29, 2014, 02:19:18 am
During my course of treatment, I was tested thoroughly and treated for vitamin deficiencies by various specialists:

Nephrology:  Vitamin D
Neurology:  B-12; B-6
Infectious Disease:  Multivitamin

I was given specific instructions on how much of each vitamin to take and the physicians followed-up with testing. Supplementing vitamin deficiencies is not dangerous if you follow your plan of treatment and follow-up testing with your physician.

Having been physically affected by vitamin deficiencies, I can say that supplementation improved some physical symptoms and overall quality of life. 

Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: ChavinKnight en Septiembre 28, 2014, 01:43:24 am
I believe in vitamin supplements, but they need titration under medical supervision.  I keep reading the people with HIV are more likely to be deficient in vitamin D for example.  "Vitamin" is a bit of a misnomer, since it is more of a hormone and receptors exist in multiple cellular systems throughout the body.  I had insufficient levels despite taking a multivitamin, so we added 500IU a day, then, 1,000, followed by 2,000, then 5,000.  I was still insufficient on 5,000IU per day.  It was only after I increased to 10,000IU daily that I have a level within the normal range.  I saw an article on aids beacon that mentioned that those of us taking tenofovir and emtrictabine were at higher risk for bone loss if we have low vitamin D levels.  I never gave it any thought but my doctor is big on it and a couple of others, so I go along because I trust him.  I also supplement B12 since I am vegetarian....I used to take herbal libido enhancers even though they were not needed.. Just liked the extra stamina and other benefits  ;). But I gave them up when I started treatment because of the unknown impact on enzyme systems that could alter the levels of my meds....
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Wade en Septiembre 28, 2014, 09:49:40 am
My doc checked my vitamin D level about a year ago , vitamin D deficiency , almost
non-existent . I also take 10,000 IU daily to keep my levels in normal range.

I did however try every supplement known to man many years ago , anything to help with lipo issues , I was desperate. BIG waste of money, surgeons knife was the only cure for my hump.

I think labs would indicate if you are deficient in any particular thing, iron , B12 , etc..
I also agree taking supplements are not a good idea with out your Doc's knowledge.
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Gruff en Diciembre 20, 2015, 09:28:29 pm
To be fair, most of the damage caused by supplements has to do with people simply stacking a variety of pills without looking at the cumulative effect of what they're taking.  I don't see government regulation as the answer; the government has regulated every aspect of ibuprofin, but it's over the counter and if you eat it like candy you're going to put a hole in your stomach or esophagus.

You take your meds. Regularly.  You tell your doctor everything you're taking.  And you commit to physical health through good eating and exercise, not popping pills. But if you do take supplements, you research and investigate as closely you would research your HIV, your meds, or anything else. 

Keep in mind that to an ER nurse, motorcycles are death traps, because THAT's what they see in the ER room...but 99%+ of motorcycle riders never end up in the ER room.  It's all a matter of perspective and a great deal of intelligent personal responsibility.
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Jeff G en Diciembre 20, 2015, 09:59:53 pm
To be fair, most of the damage caused by supplements has to do with people simply stacking a variety of pills without looking at the cumulative effect of what they're taking.  I don't see government regulation as the answer; the government has regulated every aspect of ibuprofin, but it's over the counter and if you eat it like candy you're going to put a hole in your stomach or esophagus.

You take your meds. Regularly.  You tell your doctor everything you're taking.  And you commit to physical health through good eating and exercise, not popping pills. But if you do take supplements, you research and investigate as closely you would research your HIV, your meds, or anything else. 

Keep in mind that to an ER nurse, motorcycles are death traps, because THAT's what they see in the ER room...but 99%+ of motorcycle riders never end up in the ER room.  It's all a matter of perspective and a great deal of intelligent personal responsibility.

Over the counter medications have been studied … you will get no arguments from me on if over the counter meds are always a good idea or not but they are not to be compared to supplements where you can never be sure whats actually in them or that you really are getting what you paid for. There are now plenty of studies that have shown that most supplements if not down right dangerous are nothing beneficial and gained but an expensive piss.
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Gruff en Diciembre 20, 2015, 10:09:05 pm
Over the counter medications have been studied … you will get no arguments from me on if over the counter meds are always a good idea or not but they are not to be compared to supplements where you can never be sure whats actually in them or that you really are getting what you paid for. There are now plenty of studies that have shown that most supplements if not down right dangerous are nothing beneficial and gained but an expensive piss.

We will, I guess, agree to disagree. I've been responsibly using supplements to good effect my entire life (certified personal trainer here.)   Even my doctor has recommended supplements, specifically Milk Thistle for my liver and Hawthorn Berries for my blood pressure.  Branched Chain Amino Acids (specifically L-Arginine) has worked wonders for blood flow during workouts.  Chinese Shilajit ends my acid reflux and chronic hiccups (I used to get them for 10 hours at a stretch.)  And Zhen Gongfu (Chinese Epimedium) works for me when cialis and viagra do not.  That's my personal experience...and with every medication (and in fact everything we put in our bodies), everything affects people differently.

You clearly have a cynical view in general on an unregulated supplement industry, and I respect that, so I won't belabor the point - but my personal experience has been very good - and has noticeably improved my quality of life.
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Jeff G en Diciembre 20, 2015, 10:23:33 pm
Not cynical here . I trust the science that has proven that in the absence of a diagnosed deficiency that supplements are not useful and can be dangerous and of no benefit.

I have also seen many critically ill people waste precious resources on snake oil and false hope.   
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: wardp en Noviembre 04, 2017, 05:51:08 am
I take vit c 500mg a day' it keeps my uric acid in normal range, I have stopped it and   my uric acid  levels sky rocket, the theory that all supplements are useless is BS,
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: Jim Allen en Noviembre 04, 2017, 06:36:24 am
Better diet to start with, eat something.

Anyhow most health claims are BS and some outright dangerous. The claims around them are from time to time even proven criminal.

Benefits at best are often limited to people with other issues causing deficiencies and it's not theory there simply is no evidence otherwise. I take vitamin D3 as it's a measured problem living in a sun deprived part of the world as directed by a doctor.

Now your entitled to your point of view or beliefs but if you keep posting in Zombie threads, purely in a manner to gain a reaction and posting rubbish you are going to test my nerves.

Jim
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: mecch en Noviembre 05, 2017, 06:02:52 am
I take vit c 500mg a day' it keeps my uric acid in normal range, I have stopped it and   my uric acid  levels sky rocket, the theory that all supplements are useless is BS,

There is no such theory.  I believe the idea is to use common sense, and that an HIV+ person ask his/her doctor if the supplements are OK, and if the supplements are doing what the taker things they are supposed to do. Otherwise the supplement could be dangerous or the supplement could be a waste of money. And some people have very little money to throw away, and take things based on fear of sickness rather than any proof that the supplement does something.
Título: Re: Another Supplement Warning
Publicado por: MrHopeful en Marzo 29, 2019, 09:11:47 am
I take vitamins, minerals and probiotics based on lab tests to keep them in optimal ranges. I totally agree that multivitamins are a waist of time and money.